Unlike you, I am familiar with the pig government and we actually have an agreement that we eat their death row inmates. Crime has never been so delicious.
Are you telling me that you eatpork as some sort of... preemptive revenge? Because even in a hypothetical universe where pigs are top of the food chain, it would still be wrong to imprison and kill them. Which is why doing this to tiger/lion/bear would also be wrong in our universe.
That's just useless semantics, neither funny nor clever. The pig you bought may be dead, but the money you pay will be used to raise and kill other pigs.
the pig was slaughtered in the past, before I walked into the store or decided what I'm eating this week. everyone involved was paid before all that, too.
It's actually irrelevant whether or not you buy a product made from slave labour, the product is already made! How much product is made is completely independent of how much gets purchased, because that's how markets work!
all the research I can find indicates there is not sufficient evidence to conclude that non-human animals understand personal mortality, so given the choice, the pig would even understand.
I would think the cases of non-human animals committing suicide (mostly cetaceans) would be indicative that at least some of them can comprehend personal mortality on some level. It’s a bit different if an animal doesn’t eat due to stress or whatever and starves to death, I wouldn’t call that suicide. But whales occasionally just drown themselves, that’s pretty hard to rationalize any other way
Nothing concrete of course, because it’s very difficult to study at a stage where we cannot communicate or directly observe the emotional states of animals, nor ethically design a study where one attempts to cause animals enough distress to engage in self harm or bring about their deaths (and simultaneously prove that was their intent).
It’s in no way a concluded topic, but it doesn’t make sense to reject outright either - and I definitely think there is enough evidence around for animals understanding of their peers mortality, why start with the assumption that they have an inability to recognize their own mortality in the first place? It’s good to be skeptical, but unproven anthropomorphism is just as illogical as the opposite assumption.
i am open to evidence, but I do not have enough evidence now to support the belief that nonhuman animals understand personal mortality, so I do not believe that they do.
Animals died to get eggs and cheese. Also the animals that are giving milk and eggs will die when they reach a certain age. Also I wouldn't consider being in a cage 24/7, never seeing the sun, a "life" exactly.
That's like saying you don't mind buying blood diamonds because diamonds are just a rock. Of course they contributed to death, but in essence they are just a shiny rock.
You are thinking too hard. I never alluded to eating eggs or cheese being ethical or not. Cheese is complicated because of the bacteria that makes it, not because it came from an animal.
Oh I guess my comment does look like a vegetarian shopping list. My point was that even though many vegetables 'die' for us, there are things you can harvest without killing the plant/animal. Not as a moral stance, I doubt anyone cares more about carrots dying than cows and chickens suffering.
Fun fact: Gas chambers are often used to kill pigs. You can hear their screaming from outside the facilities as the gas burns them to death from the inside out.
This is common practice.
It is plenty likely the victim in the picture whose mutilated corpse is very disrespectfully converted into sewage by now was gassed to death.
Nobody has said anything about the Holocaust or the Jews. This is standard practice of killing pigs.
If you want to have a conversation about this topic, I would like to highlight that we are animals too (just a different species) and I don't think there is any moral difference between our species and dogs or pigs when regarding killing, even when I know about our differences because at the end of the day we are just individuals we clear interests in avoiding suffering and death, and byproducts of pigs are just unnecessary to consume and cruel to get.
A pig didn't say they would die for you. It was murdered against its will and then you paid the killer to kill more.
Livin' up to that username, kid.
And I'd do it again.
Unlike you, I am familiar with the pig government and we actually have an agreement that we eat their death row inmates. Crime has never been so delicious.
Okay but actually they grow up in cages and never see daylight. Their tails cut off without anaesthetic.
So yeh.
You're buying from the wrong farmer. Family farmers care a lot more about their animals than factory farms. Just another reason to buy local.
It is a strange way to care about someone by sending them to death. I wouldn't leave this people rise children. Or pigs. Or any other individual.
No pigs go "oink" silly or when they're scared they go "SSSSSSQQQQQQQEEEEEEEE-SSSSSSQQQQEEEEE-SSSSQQQQEEEEEE"
Same thing happens if you eat broccoli.
Yim yum!
If a pig had the chance he'd eat you and everyone you care about.
And...?
Are you telling me that you eatpork as some sort of... preemptive revenge? Because even in a hypothetical universe where pigs are top of the food chain, it would still be wrong to imprison and kill them. Which is why doing this to tiger/lion/bear would also be wrong in our universe.
Weird comeback.
You must be great at parties(unless they're serving pigs in a blanket, obvs)
I truly AM great at parties. I'm loud, funny, cute and get REAL drunk. What's not to love?
lol personal insults means you know your argument sucks
Seitan pigs in a blanket are flippin' great. I literally serve that at parties. 😂
I’d kill it myself for the goddamn delicious goodness
almost no one has paid for a pig to be killed
It's called 'buying pork'. They don't kill them for fun and just happen to sell them afterwards.
when you buy pork, the person who killed the pig has already been paid.
That's just useless semantics, neither funny nor clever. The pig you bought may be dead, but the money you pay will be used to raise and kill other pigs.
it's not semantics
It absolutely is. If you eat pork, you indirectly pay for pigs to be slaughtered. Full stop.
the pig was slaughtered in the past, before I walked into the store or decided what I'm eating this week. everyone involved was paid before all that, too.
I give my money to the same people that you do: a grocer.
I murder my own wildlife for free
It's actually irrelevant whether or not you buy a product made from slave labour, the product is already made! How much product is made is completely independent of how much gets purchased, because that's how markets work!
Assuming what I think you're assuming, now I want to hear this story of pig assassination.
😂
Cope.
no, u
bacon died for you without its consent
"Hey pig I'm gonna eat ya!"
The man I have tied to my bed 🥴
That's why it tastes so good.
So does broccoli.
But given the choice a pig wouldn't die for you, so no bacon isn't love, it's murder.
very tasty murder!
all the research I can find indicates there is not sufficient evidence to conclude that non-human animals understand personal mortality, so given the choice, the pig would even understand.
I would think the cases of non-human animals committing suicide (mostly cetaceans) would be indicative that at least some of them can comprehend personal mortality on some level. It’s a bit different if an animal doesn’t eat due to stress or whatever and starves to death, I wouldn’t call that suicide. But whales occasionally just drown themselves, that’s pretty hard to rationalize any other way
if you can find something scholarly, id love to read it.
https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1201&context=animsent
Nothing concrete of course, because it’s very difficult to study at a stage where we cannot communicate or directly observe the emotional states of animals, nor ethically design a study where one attempts to cause animals enough distress to engage in self harm or bring about their deaths (and simultaneously prove that was their intent).
It’s in no way a concluded topic, but it doesn’t make sense to reject outright either - and I definitely think there is enough evidence around for animals understanding of their peers mortality, why start with the assumption that they have an inability to recognize their own mortality in the first place? It’s good to be skeptical, but unproven anthropomorphism is just as illogical as the opposite assumption.
i am open to evidence, but I do not have enough evidence now to support the belief that nonhuman animals understand personal mortality, so I do not believe that they do.
Delicious murder
A bacon meme? Is it 2008?
What happened in 2008?
Bacon and narwhal were in fashion at the time.
oh of course. Silly me. How could I have forgotten
Yeah, but it wasn't consensual.
I didn't expect to find any vegan message in this "pure carnist" meme post. This was the #1 comment in the post, that's awesome!
Fun fact every food we eat died for us.
Lab grown meat is a thing now
A thing which dies for your meal. What they grow in the lab is living tissue, a mass of living cells.
Except for like, fruits, seeds, eggs, dairy etc.
Only eggs haven't died for us. Fruits and seeds definitely died for us too. Cheese is complicated.
Animals died to get eggs and cheese. Also the animals that are giving milk and eggs will die when they reach a certain age. Also I wouldn't consider being in a cage 24/7, never seeing the sun, a "life" exactly.
Sure but the eggs haven't died for us. They aren't fertilised either so have no chance of becoming a chicken
That's like saying you don't mind buying blood diamonds because diamonds are just a rock. Of course they contributed to death, but in essence they are just a shiny rock.
No, it's like me saying diamonds are minerals.
You are thinking too hard. I never alluded to eating eggs or cheese being ethical or not. Cheese is complicated because of the bacteria that makes it, not because it came from an animal.
Ah I see, things dying for us is completely free of ethics. Silly me thinking too hard.
You may want to watch this video by Earthling Ed
Oh I guess my comment does look like a vegetarian shopping list. My point was that even though many vegetables 'die' for us, there are things you can harvest without killing the plant/animal. Not as a moral stance, I doubt anyone cares more about carrots dying than cows and chickens suffering.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this video by Earthling Ed
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I'm stealing this.
I'm stealing this.
Fun fact: Gas chambers are often used to kill pigs. You can hear their screaming from outside the facilities as the gas burns them to death from the inside out.
This is common practice.
It is plenty likely the victim in the picture whose mutilated corpse is very disrespectfully converted into sewage by now was gassed to death.
dude wtf how are they not able to find gas that's painless?
Stop trying to invoke the holocaust when talking about animals. Pigs aren't people. Jews aren't animals.
Nobody has said anything about the Holocaust or the Jews. This is standard practice of killing pigs.
If you want to have a conversation about this topic, I would like to highlight that we are animals too (just a different species) and I don't think there is any moral difference between our species and dogs or pigs when regarding killing, even when I know about our differences because at the end of the day we are just individuals we clear interests in avoiding suffering and death, and byproducts of pigs are just unnecessary to consume and cruel to get.
Image Transcription: Meme
[An image of bacon sizzling on a cook surface]
Top text: BACON IS BETTER THAN THAT GIRL (OR GUY) WHO SAID THEY WOULD DIE FOR YOU
Bottom Text: BACON ACTUALLY DID DIE FOR YOU. BACON'S LOVE IS REAL.
Bacon will always have a place in my heart. And in my arteries.
Hey I'm still a good catch. Because I never lied to you. I never told you I would die for you.
I've heard that halal bacon is better.
It's beef.
Ftfy
Jesus Christ it's not Anne Frank, stop burning it.
I think she died of typhus
Miss on both accounts, but solid edge.
Bu bu bu but we didn’t have a signed consent form from the pig! MURDER!
That just means there's a dude at a factory farm who would kill for you.
None of my random killings have been illegal because of my handy dandy notary public
I used to own a button that read: "Bacon is chocolate, for men."
Did you also tip your fedora whenever you pressed it?
It was a wearable button, with a pin to pin it to a jacket. I'm sure they still make these things.
Get some education kid. That's not a fedora
Hahaha.