I actually have some telemetry enabled on my system, cause I want the maintainers of my distro to have more data to base their decisions on. I always disable everything for proprietary software though, and I dislike opt-out systems.
I only enable telemetry for software provided by nonprofit organizations that are legally obligated to publish detailed financial records. Never give anyone that reserves the right to sell you out any of the benefit of your data for free.
Is Canonical actually doing that, though? Collecting data for product improvement purposes and collecting it to potentially sell to third parties are two wildly different things, and doing the former, even with the user's consent, does not mean you automatically reserve the right to do the latter (or anything else, really) with the collected data, unless you explicitly already include that as an option and get consent for it as well.
I haven't looked into it myself, so I might be wrong here, but I'm guessing Canonical would be getting way more shit for this if they were actually reserving the right to outright sell the telemetry they're collecting, rather than just use it for product planning and development.
It's been really sad watching them shoot themselves in the foot like this. They seem bent on destroying their distro. Which was the first distro I really used on an old laptop after trying a few.
It's also amazing they even try because a good percentage of Ubuntu users are likely knowledgeable tech users who like to stay aware of their software. Many of them are probably former or current Microsoft or Apple users who want to avoid big corporate OS systems because of creeping advertising.
Canonical has pulled similar shit for years now. Remember the Amazon search integration? They do it again and again, yet most users stay.
And I know, someone will comment "but I totally ditched Ubuntu and my one friend did too!!!!", but how is Ubuntu still the most popular distribution? Finding snaps is easier than finding flatpacks or debs or rpms. Finding support is easier, etc. This might be just momentum, but until that is running out, it's working.
He said Ubuntu 16, I believe the Amazon search fiasco was in 2012. He simply hasn't been using Linux long enough to know that Ubuntu used to be good. His baseline user experience is probably gnome 3.
So he's comparing extra-shitty Ubuntu to shitty Ubuntu and saying it didn't used to be shitty.
I know that amazon search was there also in 16.04 because it was my first distro and in my country i only briefly heard about amazon so it looked cool to me to have one button to order something but i never clicked on it because i tought it only works in rich countries or something. At that time i didnt gave a crap about privacy i was sold on it because i liked the design of unity and the fact that it looks different than school pcs with windows so it didnt remind me school
Ubuntu actually still had the unity desktop environment when I started using it. And I wasn't happy when they switched to gnome. Thats part of why I stopped using it
This is the "ad". Personally, I don't think a little plug like this is worth any kind of fuss. If it were a real ad or something, then yea I would get it.
This. Any unsollicited communication that's meant to make you investigate or buy a commercial product is an advertisement. That's all. Is it less intrusive than the TikTok ad in Windows start menu, I think it may be, but it's still an advertisement, by definition.
As I mentioned in another comment, it's still a commercial offering, that happens to have a free tier. Would we be okay with a YouTube link in the same spot?
Honestly, it doesn't bother me that much. It's more that you can see a more and more corporate-y trend in Canonical's decision making, which I personally don't really care for. If I used Ubuntu with the default shell I'd probably just override the MOTD and go on with my life.
I see a lot of people comment that this isn’t that bad and that it might even be acceptable, and that’s exactly the problem here: it’s a gateway drug and if we normalise this, Canonical will keep pushing the limits of what they can pull off before it’s not acceptable anymore, and that sounds when it’s too late.
I mean.. It is literally an ad. I don't see how you could not consider it one. You could claim it doesn't bother you or isn't too intrusive or something, but it most certainly is an ad.
I don’t hate Ubuntu, it used to be my favorite distro and I haven’t found anything that really replaces it. I hate Canonical for destroying my favorite distro
Debian 12 is the best destination after Ubuntu if you're switching because you hate stupid Canonical things. I switched a few months ago and it was really easy and has been awesome.
Go with Arch, it has just as many packages available as Ubuntu and more, if you use the AUR. If you want something more stable/less changing use the LTS kernel instead of the mainline kernel.
Telemetry is significantly less invasive than on windows or Mac, and is completely optional during installation, after which you will never be asked to turn it on again
Which version of Ubuntu you’re installing (including which flavour),
Whether you have network connectivity,
Hardware stats, including CPU, RAM, GPU, etc,
Your device vendor (e.g., Dell, Lenovo, etc),
Your country (based on the time zone you pick, not IP),
How long your install took to complete,
Whether you have auto login enabled,
Your disk layout (how many hard drives and partitions you have),
Whether you chose to install third party codecs,
Whether you chose to download updates during install
(According to OMG!Ubuntu)
Most distros offer optional telemetry, but Ubuntu’s is opt out not opt in (for GNOME you have to separately install the telemetry)
I haven't installed ubuntu in a while, but in EU you need to have prior consent from the user to gather any kind of data and if I remember correctly I haven't seen such thing. And it's not enough to bury that into documentation and say 'if you use our software you allow us to blah blah', you must get consent via an action from the user which spesifically allows that, so if telemetry comes silently with 'apt dist-upgrade' it's not enough.
In Ubuntu in the post install screen theres is the telemetry screen where they explain it, allow you opt out and give you a json example of the data they're collecting from your machine.
Telling people about in-house programs in this manner is fine imo. If it was third party stuff I'd leave Ubuntu, but as it stands it's still a great distro.
First the deliberate there/their BS on the other post, and now literally ? Yeah you’re definitely a real user with no other motivations whatsoever. Fuck off shill
I actually have some telemetry enabled on my system, cause I want the maintainers of my distro to have more data to base their decisions on. I always disable everything for proprietary software though, and I dislike opt-out systems.
I only enable telemetry for software provided by nonprofit organizations that are legally obligated to publish detailed financial records. Never give anyone that reserves the right to sell you out any of the benefit of your data for free.
Is Canonical actually doing that, though? Collecting data for product improvement purposes and collecting it to potentially sell to third parties are two wildly different things, and doing the former, even with the user's consent, does not mean you automatically reserve the right to do the latter (or anything else, really) with the collected data, unless you explicitly already include that as an option and get consent for it as well. I haven't looked into it myself, so I might be wrong here, but I'm guessing Canonical would be getting way more shit for this if they were actually reserving the right to outright sell the telemetry they're collecting, rather than just use it for product planning and development.
If they ask nicely, maybe I will accept. The KDE guys have telemetry iirc, they get what they need.
Just why?
It's been really sad watching them shoot themselves in the foot like this. They seem bent on destroying their distro. Which was the first distro I really used on an old laptop after trying a few.
Man Ubuntu 16 those were the days.
It's also amazing they even try because a good percentage of Ubuntu users are likely knowledgeable tech users who like to stay aware of their software. Many of them are probably former or current Microsoft or Apple users who want to avoid big corporate OS systems because of creeping advertising.
Why? Because it's working, at least for now.
Canonical has pulled similar shit for years now. Remember the Amazon search integration? They do it again and again, yet most users stay.
And I know, someone will comment "but I totally ditched Ubuntu and my one friend did too!!!!", but how is Ubuntu still the most popular distribution? Finding snaps is easier than finding flatpacks or debs or rpms. Finding support is easier, etc. This might be just momentum, but until that is running out, it's working.
He said Ubuntu 16, I believe the Amazon search fiasco was in 2012. He simply hasn't been using Linux long enough to know that Ubuntu used to be good. His baseline user experience is probably gnome 3.
So he's comparing extra-shitty Ubuntu to shitty Ubuntu and saying it didn't used to be shitty.
I know that amazon search was there also in 16.04 because it was my first distro and in my country i only briefly heard about amazon so it looked cool to me to have one button to order something but i never clicked on it because i tought it only works in rich countries or something. At that time i didnt gave a crap about privacy i was sold on it because i liked the design of unity and the fact that it looks different than school pcs with windows so it didnt remind me school
Ubuntu actually still had the unity desktop environment when I started using it. And I wasn't happy when they switched to gnome. Thats part of why I stopped using it
Microsoft:
adding telemetry to the terminal.
(in a recent poweshell update)
with microsoft, it's everyday affair.
What??? For realsies???
This is the "ad". Personally, I don't think a little plug like this is worth any kind of fuss. If it were a real ad or something, then yea I would get it.
An ad is an ad and this definitely is an ad. This is the kind of shit that made me quit Windows and it would make me quit Ubuntu if I was using it.
This. Any unsollicited communication that's meant to make you investigate or buy a commercial product is an advertisement. That's all. Is it less intrusive than the TikTok ad in Windows start menu, I think it may be, but it's still an advertisement, by definition.
For me it is, I would've never ever expected an ad on cli, on a local install, on my machine.
Logged into an ec2 and see an advert? Sure. But not on my own shit. It's a true "ah fuck I can't believe you've done this" factor.
Ubuntu Pro seems to be free for regular users (on up to five machines).
Would bother me a lot more if it wasn't a free service. Now it's ehh
As I mentioned in another comment, it's still a commercial offering, that happens to have a free tier. Would we be okay with a YouTube link in the same spot?
Honestly, it doesn't bother me that much. It's more that you can see a more and more corporate-y trend in Canonical's decision making, which I personally don't really care for. If I used Ubuntu with the default shell I'd probably just override the MOTD and go on with my life.
Like, promoting Youtube or just a link to a Youtube video promoting Ubuntu Pro or what do you mean?
A link promoting any other commercial product with a free tier. Like AWS, or YouTube.
I think this is the best take. This alone if it went nowhere is fairly harmless.
But I think we know what it really is, is the start of a slippery slope.
Different strokes and all that. I'm personally ok with the way this is done, but I can also see why people wouldn't like it at all
I use Ubuntu and I haven’t seen ads in the terminal.
But I see everyone complaining about them.
What am I missing here?
I'm newer to linux, and kind of a moron, but I 1) bounced off Ubuntu and 2) haven't seen this crap with Debian.
While I'm not bothered by this in particular, like other people have said, it feels like the top of a very slippery slope that I would be bothered by
That's pretty much how I feel about it. This specific method is alright by me, but it could very easily become something intrusive.
It is a real ad though...
Technically, but it's coming from the same servers your packages are being downloaded from, right?
I don't think that's from a server but instead it's baked into apt. Or some post-install trigger.
Post-install trigger was my guess.. I used to have to build .rpm's unfortunately but no apt experience yet.
this plus the snap crap they've been doing was enough for me to switch to Debian
I went through the entire cycle.
And finally I’m at Debian.
You missed Slackware
And he still hasn't arrived at Gentoo.
He's still compiling
Did you just tell us that you did in fact use Arch?
I once used Arch, but I decided to go to Debian as it is stable.
I've been getting ads like these for years on my ubuntu server.
This is on a machine running 20.04. Never bothered me. All my other machines are Debian now, and at some point I'll switch that one too.
Yeah, plus given you can get pro for free it really seems more like a announcement than an ad. Slippery slope though.
What's an ad if not a commercial announcement?
I guess it doesn't seem as much of an ad if it's something free they're promoting. As it would be for most users.
It's a commercial offering with a free tier.
Yes and most users would be in the free tier
So it's still an ad to a product, or it's not?
Yeah, this isn't that bad. It's just a suggestion after running an apt upgrade. NPM has similar plugs which I don't find too annoying.
In fact its not even as intrusive as NPM's funding requests, as it is only 2 lines of text, plus it looks like Ubuntu Pro is free for personal use.
I agree that I wouldnt call that an ad, but it's a pretty distasteful plug
I see a lot of people comment that this isn’t that bad and that it might even be acceptable, and that’s exactly the problem here: it’s a gateway drug and if we normalise this, Canonical will keep pushing the limits of what they can pull off before it’s not acceptable anymore, and that sounds when it’s too late.
This is not what I would consider an ad. I also remember seeing it only once
I mean.. It is literally an ad. I don't see how you could not consider it one. You could claim it doesn't bother you or isn't too intrusive or something, but it most certainly is an ad.
I agree that it's not a very intrusive ad
I have never seen this ever
Haven't kept up with Ubuntu, but I believe this. It's in line with Canonical's behavior. They are very corporaty
Looking at your history, you really hate Ubuntu u/RmDebArc_5, don't you?
I don’t hate Ubuntu, it used to be my favorite distro and I haven’t found anything that really replaces it. I hate Canonical for destroying my favorite distro
Debian 12 is the best destination after Ubuntu if you're switching because you hate stupid Canonical things. I switched a few months ago and it was really easy and has been awesome.
I used Debian quite a while after switching from Ubuntu, but the outdated packages made me quit. I will probably try Debian testing/sid soon
Debian Stable is an excellent replacement for Ubuntu LTS.
Mint is an excellent replacement for mainline Ubuntu.
Linux Mint Debian Edition. Has a lot of the comforts and niceties you got from Ubuntu compared to Debian.
Been using this for the last few months on my laptop, overall a pretty solid experience.
Go with Arch, it has just as many packages available as Ubuntu and more, if you use the AUR. If you want something more stable/less changing use the LTS kernel instead of the mainline kernel.
Currently on EndeavorOS
Linux Mint?
Linux Mint Debian Edition
Telemetry is significantly less invasive than on windows or Mac, and is completely optional during installation, after which you will never be asked to turn it on again
What? Is that so? What happened with ubuntu?
It snapped
I clapped
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
Damn, guess I should go back to Windows /s
what telemetry?
Which version of Ubuntu you’re installing (including which flavour), Whether you have network connectivity, Hardware stats, including CPU, RAM, GPU, etc, Your device vendor (e.g., Dell, Lenovo, etc), Your country (based on the time zone you pick, not IP), How long your install took to complete, Whether you have auto login enabled, Your disk layout (how many hard drives and partitions you have), Whether you chose to install third party codecs, Whether you chose to download updates during install
(According to OMG!Ubuntu) Most distros offer optional telemetry, but Ubuntu’s is opt out not opt in (for GNOME you have to separately install the telemetry)
I haven't installed ubuntu in a while, but in EU you need to have prior consent from the user to gather any kind of data and if I remember correctly I haven't seen such thing. And it's not enough to bury that into documentation and say 'if you use our software you allow us to blah blah', you must get consent via an action from the user which spesifically allows that, so if telemetry comes silently with 'apt dist-upgrade' it's not enough.
In Ubuntu in the post install screen theres is the telemetry screen where they explain it, allow you opt out and give you a json example of the data they're collecting from your machine.
I wish you the best in filing a complaint
That sounds surprisingly tame list.
Hannah Montana Linux, huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aotzo4tyvM4
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=Aotzo4tyvM4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Thought for sure that was gonna be the MJD video. How wrong I was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdRSq9cetVY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=LdRSq9cetVY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Oh no...
Why would they do this to themselves?! Why?!
Telling people about in-house programs in this manner is fine imo. If it was third party stuff I'd leave Ubuntu, but as it stands it's still a great distro.
"You're right Mr. CMO! The frogs are warming up!"
First the deliberate there/their BS on the other post, and now literally ? Yeah you’re definitely a real user with no other motivations whatsoever. Fuck off shill