It's a class war. It always has been. The 1 percenters use their control of the media to keep the poor and middle classes fighting with each other, so that they . . . the rich, can run off with all the f*cking money.
Ah yeah, an enlightened centrist meme, coming directly from the deranged minds that think trying to take the middle road when one the sides is blatantly against human rights is a moderate position.
Not worth engaging with the "centrist are evil" people. They just cant accept other pov's that arent theirs, specially if it implies their side should make a compromise. Im pretty sure they hate even more non partisan people rather than the team party they are suposed to hate because that is thinking outside the box and they dont like that very much.
Imo thats just a result of the partisan american culture war bullshit doing its intended purpose: divide and conquer.
To bad most of the media comes from hollywood and a lot of us non american people get indirectly involved in their bullshit.
Bruh whoosh much... the meme is quite literally from the prospective of the Ruling class and saying that both issues are the same to the Ruling Class as long as it doesnt threaten the Status quo of their strangle hold on Wealth and their ability to extract it from the Working Class....
This is obviously a leftist meme making fun of liberal and conservative fighting. It's from the perspective of someone to the left of liberals, not between liberals and conservatives.
That makes more sense. I was wondering why they were both saying the same thing when typically you'd expect liberals and conservatives to be arguing. Those to the left of liberals see everyone as "liberal," as in free markets and whatever, not political left/right, or at least the hexbear folks do.
Took me a bit longer than I'd like to admit to get what they were going on about when everyone was called liberal lol
It’s one of those memes that I can see from someone who thinks that the democrats are Marxists or from someone who gets really mad when you say that Marxism isn’t the end all be all of communism.
Either way, it comes with the failure to acknowledge that the culture war is one group trying to exist and the other being convinced to hurt them by the capitalist class.
It's not incorrect though. If we're worried about the erosion of human rights, it distracts from the fact that corps own our government. Not that that means we shouldn't fight the erosion of human rights as well. That's the brain dead centrist take.
The problem is where you draw the line. It's a fucking shame to democrats that Nancy "insider trading is OK when I do it" Pelosi is still politically relevant, but what are we gonna do when the alternate choice is a fascist?
Oh I'll still be voting for the lesser of 2 evils dont get me wrong, i dont fuck with lemmygrad.ml at all anymore because they have deleted multiple comments ive made arguing for the necessity of voting for the lesser of 2 evils to protect the Prolitariat long enough for class conciousness to grow in America.
I feel like half the stuff posted there is to disenfranchise young leftists enough to keep them from voting for Democrats in 2024 inorder to allow mask off fascism to take hold of American politics, but not enough to get them to practice any real praxis and keep them regualted to having purity politics circle jerks while doing nothing to challenge the status quo. Putin is the biggest Imperial threat on the planet. While Stalin also holds the lions share if the blame for forcing revolutionary Marxism to stall out in the dictatorship of the Prolitariat stage. They also aren't defending the actions of those countries as much as they are recontexualizing them. We should learn from previous socialist experiments and take what was good from them into the future as much as we should recognize and strive to leave their failures in the past. Eithet way we must recognize that the Capitalist Status quo is not working out what so ever for tge vast majority of humanity and something has got to give.
You got it pretty much spot on, though I'll nitpick here
They also aren't defending the actions of those countries as much as they are recontexualizing them.
They're whitewashing history. Yes, if you want to try communism, it's critical to understand where previous attempts failed. They don't, and they don't want to.
Putin is the biggest Imperial threat on the planet.
And yet they still support him. I got banned from grad for 3 years for telling a mod to stop throating putin's cock. I'll see if I can pull up the exchange, it was pretty funny. He immediately whatabouted the US working with nazis after wwii. Like, yeah bud that was bad, I agree, tell me how that justifies invading Ukraine right now though?
I’ve never seen someone with purple hair and thought “this indicates that they would have a problem with me calling for labor to seize the means of production”. Yeah there’s plenty of liberals with dyed hair, but plenty of communists too
I genuinely try to avoiding judging peoplr based on outward appearances, I know way to many hippies and people who generally look like what the right tries to characterize as leftists, that were hard core tRump supporters/forced birth hardliners.
Political cartoons are built on charactiture. Otherwise the mr monopoly man would simply be a giant who owns diaper companies and has captured two people and put them in a cage resulting in them shitting themselves.
Well, the rich seems to like the stuff the batshit insane right are spewing. Plus, they also benefit from those policies, like abortion bans, child labor law regressions, and of course tax cuts for those earning 6 figures at minimum.
America’s “left” is also not fighting these insane policies effectively. It’s like they’re pointing fingers at the GOP and going “Hey, that’s bad.”
From the left perspective in the US it's basically the Democrats who are the "enlightened centrist" position, if not center-right, because they think capitalism is redeemable if it has the right branding etc, and success in the system is at least in theory available to everyone. The right faction are more honest in how they embrace and take joy in how this system runs on exploitation, and are obviously more dangerous in the current climate. The Democrats have to be dishonest because they have to take an inherently exploitative economic arrangement and give it a positive spin.
I'm not sure why centrism is so hated here. As long as you acknowledge one side is more damaging I don't see a problem with it. The other side might have less problematic views but they both subsist off of each other and thrive by creating vitriol between each other. It shouldn't be taboo to not support either one. This meme doesn't even really seem like its attempting to make that point anyway, although I understand how you could see it that way.
If you acknowledge one side as worse than another it isn't centrist. That would be taking a position.
The fence sitting of centrists say both sides are bad and not dealing with issues is why centrists are hated. They don't offer anything other than the 'Both Sides' argument.
At least that in what I have gathered my observations.
I understand the dislike for people that take no position whatsoever, but the hate for centrism I've seen extends beyond that. I've been called an enlightened centrist for simply not supporting either party, but I guess that might just mean those people were mistaken.
Being between two ideologies is not a virtue in and of itself. Refusing to align with either of 2 generally shitty Capitalist parties, and being a centrist, are completely different things.
It depends on why you aren't supporting either party. If it's because the libs are too radical and the conservatives are too fascist, then you're a centrist liberal. If you're legitimately outside the scope of those two, such as to the left (or somehow to the right), then you aren't a centrist.
Being extreme isn't wrong either. The strength of a position with respect to current society says nothing about the founding logic for said position. Climate change, for example, must be radically acted on to prevent even worse results from happening, and it must happen now or we will suffer even more.
I don't support either one because in many ways I think they are effectively the same. My views are certainly more in line with liberals and I think they are much less directly harmful than conservatives, but the parties themselves are more or less the same to me.
Neither of them effectively push the policy I want, and both purposely create an unnecessary divide between each other. They both need the other to be the antagonist to continue creating this strange dramatic version of politics.
Parts of my family refuses to speak to one another purely because of this. Their views aren't even that far off from each other, but neither of them actually understand each other's views. All they understand is the manufactured hate between each other.
Again, I think conservatives usually cause the most problems, but the other party can't exist in its current form without someone to be angry at. There is no actual motive to stop the problems from being caused, so they are only amplified and worsened.
Both are actively creating a worse place to live in, and I wouldn't support either one regardless of whatever views they claim to have.
Okay, so it sounds like you're a leftist, and likely to agree that the bourgeoisie deliberately pits the Proletariat against itself as a means to prevent unified action.
Minimizing human rights issues to further the cause for socioeconomic ones doesn't make you an enlightened anticapitalist, it makes you ideologically pro-CCP.
Systemic Racism is denying People of Color their Constitutional and Human Rights in America.
Palestinians are having their Human Rights trampled on by Israle.
ALL of these issues are deeply important to me, but all of them arise as symptoms of Class Warfare and are stoked up as culture war issues to keep the Prolitariat divided and distracted from the Ruling Class that holds the reigns of power. We must recontexualize these issues as what they are, distractions being used to take the ire off of the Ruling Class and getting the Working Class to punch down instead of punching up. We need Class Conciousness and the only way to form it is by redirecting the ire of the Working Class to the Ruling Class that has been robbing them of their labor for decades upon decades. You arent gonna get the disenfranchised Conservative working class on your side with moral arguments or it would have happened by now. We must demonstrate that the Ruling class doesnt give a fuck about them and that is from where their problems stem, not from folks struggling just as much if not more than them.
ALL of these issues are deeply important to me, but all of them arise as symptoms of Class Warfare
A society that achieves socialism might still be homophobic, transphobic, racist, ableist and sexist. These things persist in culture even if the socioeconomic system might promote them, you cannot just will them out of existence because the conditions that made them sprout no longer exist.
A society that achieves socialism would most certainly have those sentiments lingering, but eliminating the socioeconomic system that causes the symptoms is the first place is the obvious first step to permanently riding society of those sentiments. A good doctor uses the symptoms to diagnose and treat the underlying disease with the appropriate medicine. A bad doctor just prescribes medicine to help a patient live with the disease without addressing the underlying cause that lead to the symptoms in the first place. We can fight the sentiments you listed by raising class conciousness and eliminating the status quo that allows said sentiments to thrive and multiple.
Bro, it literally doesn't matter because both MAGA and the ruling class are the two major hurdles for the left.
Take the ruling class out and the left and the right will still go to war against each other.
It's not the ruling class making them fight. They're choosing to fight with each other, and scapegoating the situation on the ruling class is a factually incorrect thing to do.
You are not entirely wrong, but it is the conditions that the ruling class created that lead to their systemic disenfranchisement from the political systems in America resulting in the left versus right dichotomy.
My whole point and goal with the leftist agiprop I post is to prevent a war between left v right by showing the hypocrisy of the lies the right has entrenched themselves in. I dont want any war but class war and that cant be won in America without left and right reconciling as comrades against the ruling class.
Saying that the ruling class hasn't stoked yhe left v right culture war is also factually incorrect. The Maga movements figure head is literally a Landlord, the Koch Brothers fund countless rightwing think tanks and media organizations that actively push a culture war narrative. They are actively waging a class war in America against the Middle and lower class because they cant exist without robbing the value of their labor, and they will do ANYTHING to prevent class conciousness from forming on US soil.
Honestly, I used to feel the same way until I saw what MAGA and the right are really about -- genocide, and because of that, it's impossible for the U.S. left and right to reconcile.
Like I get why people want that -- we really should just be Americans again -- but the things the factions have done to each other, from the left supporting and helping the ruling class impose the lockdowns on everyone else which destabilized the U.S., to the centuries of racism and abuse the right and their ancestors have inflicted on everyone else, are too severe and too reprehensible for the sides to ethically reconcile.
It'd be better if the left pushed to form an independent country, honestly. They almost did when western states threatened to secede from the U.S. because Trump wasn't enforcing the lockdowns to the left's liking. They could wield that power and do it again, and they'd be able to form a military and keep the MAGA cultists away from them, and if the right tries to commit genocide anyway, fight back.
Doing that would also really, really fuck over the ruling class as most of their assets are in U.S. stocks, bonds and dollars which would collapse from such a thing happening, given there'd be no more U.S.
That's just how I feel on the matter given everything I've seen in my life, which is a lot. A lot more than anyone should fairly have to.
It's a class war. It always has been. The 1 percenters use their control of the media to keep the poor and middle classes fighting with each other, so that they . . . the rich, can run off with all the f*cking money.
I'd fuck them all because I don't judge.
Ah yeah, an enlightened centrist meme, coming directly from the deranged minds that think trying to take the middle road when one the sides is blatantly against human rights is a moderate position.
Calling out Capitalists as the greatest evil, isnt the centerist take you think it is....
Not worth engaging with the "centrist are evil" people. They just cant accept other pov's that arent theirs, specially if it implies their side should make a compromise. Im pretty sure they hate even more non partisan people rather than the team party they are suposed to hate because that is thinking outside the box and they dont like that very much.
Imo thats just a result of the partisan american culture war bullshit doing its intended purpose: divide and conquer.
To bad most of the media comes from hollywood and a lot of us non american people get indirectly involved in their bullshit.
Yes, i am to the left of both of the sides represented in this meme.
Bruh whoosh much... the meme is quite literally from the prospective of the Ruling class and saying that both issues are the same to the Ruling Class as long as it doesnt threaten the Status quo of their strangle hold on Wealth and their ability to extract it from the Working Class....
...No. Describing the view of the ruling class.
It’s not minimizing the difference. It’s talking about an entire different problem. You seem to be in the wrong conversation.
This is obviously a leftist meme making fun of liberal and conservative fighting. It's from the perspective of someone to the left of liberals, not between liberals and conservatives.
That makes more sense. I was wondering why they were both saying the same thing when typically you'd expect liberals and conservatives to be arguing. Those to the left of liberals see everyone as "liberal," as in free markets and whatever, not political left/right, or at least the hexbear folks do.
Took me a bit longer than I'd like to admit to get what they were going on about when everyone was called liberal lol
Nah that's common to leftism in general.
They're both saying the same thing because their pants are full of crap
This reads to me like a fairly leftist meme though, just more on the classical Marxist side.
It’s one of those memes that I can see from someone who thinks that the democrats are Marxists or from someone who gets really mad when you say that Marxism isn’t the end all be all of communism.
Either way, it comes with the failure to acknowledge that the culture war is one group trying to exist and the other being convinced to hurt them by the capitalist class.
Its from the perspective of the ruling class. It is their point of view being portrayed, not my own.
Where are you getting "Democrats are Marxists" from the image?
Nowhere... That's the fucking point lmao
It's not incorrect though. If we're worried about the erosion of human rights, it distracts from the fact that corps own our government. Not that that means we shouldn't fight the erosion of human rights as well. That's the brain dead centrist take.
The problem is where you draw the line. It's a fucking shame to democrats that Nancy "insider trading is OK when I do it" Pelosi is still politically relevant, but what are we gonna do when the alternate choice is a fascist?
Oh I'll still be voting for the lesser of 2 evils dont get me wrong, i dont fuck with lemmygrad.ml at all anymore because they have deleted multiple comments ive made arguing for the necessity of voting for the lesser of 2 evils to protect the Prolitariat long enough for class conciousness to grow in America.
The genocide denial/celebration didn't turn you off of grad first?
Didnt see any genocide denial or celebration.
I feel like half the stuff posted there is to disenfranchise young leftists enough to keep them from voting for Democrats in 2024 inorder to allow mask off fascism to take hold of American politics, but not enough to get them to practice any real praxis and keep them regualted to having purity politics circle jerks while doing nothing to challenge the status quo. Putin is the biggest Imperial threat on the planet. While Stalin also holds the lions share if the blame for forcing revolutionary Marxism to stall out in the dictatorship of the Prolitariat stage. They also aren't defending the actions of those countries as much as they are recontexualizing them. We should learn from previous socialist experiments and take what was good from them into the future as much as we should recognize and strive to leave their failures in the past. Eithet way we must recognize that the Capitalist Status quo is not working out what so ever for tge vast majority of humanity and something has got to give.
You got it pretty much spot on, though I'll nitpick here
They're whitewashing history. Yes, if you want to try communism, it's critical to understand where previous attempts failed. They don't, and they don't want to.
And yet they still support him. I got banned from grad for 3 years for telling a mod to stop throating putin's cock. I'll see if I can pull up the exchange, it was pretty funny. He immediately whatabouted the US working with nazis after wwii. Like, yeah bud that was bad, I agree, tell me how that justifies invading Ukraine right now though?
Maybe redrawn where purple hair is trying to get at the rich guy, and Red Hat is getting in the way
Are you saying that If i dye my hair purple people will automatically assume I'm an anti capitalist leftists and not a liberal?!? Lol
I’ve never seen someone with purple hair and thought “this indicates that they would have a problem with me calling for labor to seize the means of production”. Yeah there’s plenty of liberals with dyed hair, but plenty of communists too
I genuinely try to avoiding judging peoplr based on outward appearances, I know way to many hippies and people who generally look like what the right tries to characterize as leftists, that were hard core tRump supporters/forced birth hardliners.
Political cartoons are built on charactiture. Otherwise the mr monopoly man would simply be a giant who owns diaper companies and has captured two people and put them in a cage resulting in them shitting themselves.
Well, the rich seems to like the stuff the batshit insane right are spewing. Plus, they also benefit from those policies, like abortion bans, child labor law regressions, and of course tax cuts for those earning 6 figures at minimum.
America’s “left” is also not fighting these insane policies effectively. It’s like they’re pointing fingers at the GOP and going “Hey, that’s bad.”
But it’s never gonna get any better, it’ll only get worse from here - be happy with what you got.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
But it’s never gonna get any better, it’ll only get worse from here - be happy with what you got.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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From the left perspective in the US it's basically the Democrats who are the "enlightened centrist" position, if not center-right, because they think capitalism is redeemable if it has the right branding etc, and success in the system is at least in theory available to everyone. The right faction are more honest in how they embrace and take joy in how this system runs on exploitation, and are obviously more dangerous in the current climate. The Democrats have to be dishonest because they have to take an inherently exploitative economic arrangement and give it a positive spin.
Seriously, Democrats support fascism
I'm not sure why centrism is so hated here. As long as you acknowledge one side is more damaging I don't see a problem with it. The other side might have less problematic views but they both subsist off of each other and thrive by creating vitriol between each other. It shouldn't be taboo to not support either one. This meme doesn't even really seem like its attempting to make that point anyway, although I understand how you could see it that way.
If you acknowledge one side as worse than another it isn't centrist. That would be taking a position.
The fence sitting of centrists say both sides are bad and not dealing with issues is why centrists are hated. They don't offer anything other than the 'Both Sides' argument.
At least that in what I have gathered my observations.
I understand the dislike for people that take no position whatsoever, but the hate for centrism I've seen extends beyond that. I've been called an enlightened centrist for simply not supporting either party, but I guess that might just mean those people were mistaken.
Did you offer a third opinion or did you just call them both bad?
Being between two ideologies is not a virtue in and of itself. Refusing to align with either of 2 generally shitty Capitalist parties, and being a centrist, are completely different things.
I've been called a centrist for simply not supporting either party, so I was under the impression that was a common way of thinking about it.
Using that definition of centrism, I don't actually disagree with anything that was said here.
It depends on why you aren't supporting either party. If it's because the libs are too radical and the conservatives are too fascist, then you're a centrist liberal. If you're legitimately outside the scope of those two, such as to the left (or somehow to the right), then you aren't a centrist.
Being extreme isn't wrong either. The strength of a position with respect to current society says nothing about the founding logic for said position. Climate change, for example, must be radically acted on to prevent even worse results from happening, and it must happen now or we will suffer even more.
I don't support either one because in many ways I think they are effectively the same. My views are certainly more in line with liberals and I think they are much less directly harmful than conservatives, but the parties themselves are more or less the same to me.
Neither of them effectively push the policy I want, and both purposely create an unnecessary divide between each other. They both need the other to be the antagonist to continue creating this strange dramatic version of politics.
Parts of my family refuses to speak to one another purely because of this. Their views aren't even that far off from each other, but neither of them actually understand each other's views. All they understand is the manufactured hate between each other.
Again, I think conservatives usually cause the most problems, but the other party can't exist in its current form without someone to be angry at. There is no actual motive to stop the problems from being caused, so they are only amplified and worsened.
Both are actively creating a worse place to live in, and I wouldn't support either one regardless of whatever views they claim to have.
Okay, so it sounds like you're a leftist, and likely to agree that the bourgeoisie deliberately pits the Proletariat against itself as a means to prevent unified action.
You've already passed the point where "both sides are equally bad" is reductive to your analysis.
I call out centrism because its almost always a right wing poster who knows they are wooing the undecided voter.
You already answered why m8.
This is unrealistic, they would never sympathize with us by using the word poor bastards.
He's just pointing out that they're broke.
It's just a joke my dude.
Edit: whoosh, my brain did not get the joke.
I think that comment was also a joke.
We're all a bunch of jokers on this blessed day
Thank you for pointing out what should have been obvious, but clearly was not to me.
Thats how I took it.
Trying to oppress minorities harder is actively a part of class war though. This is like, marxism 101
Minimizing human rights issues to further the cause for socioeconomic ones doesn't make you an enlightened anticapitalist, it makes you ideologically pro-CCP.
I just shit myself
Who said I'm trying to minimize human rights issues?!
Please list some of the top "culture war" issues.
I think you'll find a pattern.
Trans Rights are Human Rights.
Housing is a Human Right
Healthcare is a Human Right
Having Nutritional needs met are a Human Right
Systemic Racism is denying People of Color their Constitutional and Human Rights in America.
Palestinians are having their Human Rights trampled on by Israle.
ALL of these issues are deeply important to me, but all of them arise as symptoms of Class Warfare and are stoked up as culture war issues to keep the Prolitariat divided and distracted from the Ruling Class that holds the reigns of power. We must recontexualize these issues as what they are, distractions being used to take the ire off of the Ruling Class and getting the Working Class to punch down instead of punching up. We need Class Conciousness and the only way to form it is by redirecting the ire of the Working Class to the Ruling Class that has been robbing them of their labor for decades upon decades. You arent gonna get the disenfranchised Conservative working class on your side with moral arguments or it would have happened by now. We must demonstrate that the Ruling class doesnt give a fuck about them and that is from where their problems stem, not from folks struggling just as much if not more than them.
A society that achieves socialism might still be homophobic, transphobic, racist, ableist and sexist. These things persist in culture even if the socioeconomic system might promote them, you cannot just will them out of existence because the conditions that made them sprout no longer exist.
A society that achieves socialism would most certainly have those sentiments lingering, but eliminating the socioeconomic system that causes the symptoms is the first place is the obvious first step to permanently riding society of those sentiments. A good doctor uses the symptoms to diagnose and treat the underlying disease with the appropriate medicine. A bad doctor just prescribes medicine to help a patient live with the disease without addressing the underlying cause that lead to the symptoms in the first place. We can fight the sentiments you listed by raising class conciousness and eliminating the status quo that allows said sentiments to thrive and multiple.
Those two people in the terrarium are exactly equivalent.
Yes to the ruling class they are.
Bro, it literally doesn't matter because both MAGA and the ruling class are the two major hurdles for the left.
Take the ruling class out and the left and the right will still go to war against each other.
It's not the ruling class making them fight. They're choosing to fight with each other, and scapegoating the situation on the ruling class is a factually incorrect thing to do.
You are not entirely wrong, but it is the conditions that the ruling class created that lead to their systemic disenfranchisement from the political systems in America resulting in the left versus right dichotomy.
My whole point and goal with the leftist agiprop I post is to prevent a war between left v right by showing the hypocrisy of the lies the right has entrenched themselves in. I dont want any war but class war and that cant be won in America without left and right reconciling as comrades against the ruling class.
Saying that the ruling class hasn't stoked yhe left v right culture war is also factually incorrect. The Maga movements figure head is literally a Landlord, the Koch Brothers fund countless rightwing think tanks and media organizations that actively push a culture war narrative. They are actively waging a class war in America against the Middle and lower class because they cant exist without robbing the value of their labor, and they will do ANYTHING to prevent class conciousness from forming on US soil.
Honestly, I used to feel the same way until I saw what MAGA and the right are really about -- genocide, and because of that, it's impossible for the U.S. left and right to reconcile.
Like I get why people want that -- we really should just be Americans again -- but the things the factions have done to each other, from the left supporting and helping the ruling class impose the lockdowns on everyone else which destabilized the U.S., to the centuries of racism and abuse the right and their ancestors have inflicted on everyone else, are too severe and too reprehensible for the sides to ethically reconcile.
It'd be better if the left pushed to form an independent country, honestly. They almost did when western states threatened to secede from the U.S. because Trump wasn't enforcing the lockdowns to the left's liking. They could wield that power and do it again, and they'd be able to form a military and keep the MAGA cultists away from them, and if the right tries to commit genocide anyway, fight back.
Doing that would also really, really fuck over the ruling class as most of their assets are in U.S. stocks, bonds and dollars which would collapse from such a thing happening, given there'd be no more U.S.
That's just how I feel on the matter given everything I've seen in my life, which is a lot. A lot more than anyone should fairly have to.
Lol I bet you actually believe that paranoid conspiracy theory
To all of us. They are exactly the same, having the same ideological faults and exactly the same moral deficiencies.
Ultra mega based