oh, planets, plural. well, jupiter's massive gravity helped clear and shape the solar system, and the planets (except mercury) align to its orbital plane, not the sun's 'equator'.
But since they all listen to different astrologists and those provide uncoordinated predictions that influence is somewhat mitigated because it affects you in all directions at once
Let's just say for a moment that the placement of the planet earth at the moment of your birth actually mattered. Hell, if conscience was pulled from dark matter or dark energy at the moment of our birthday as Earth past through a certain area are the universe, that would be a cool idea.
But the problem with astrology is this assumption that our solar system is stationary and that every year, the earth nears the exact same location as your birth.
But this is entirely wrong because the sun is orbiting the super massive black hole at the center of the galaxy. So even if you believed the astrology stuff, you would have to make a calendar for 230 million years.
But wait the universe is expanding and our galaxy is moving! Even after a galactic year you would still not be located at the location of your birth. Woops astrology is dumb.
The zodiac constallations don't even line up with their original dates anymore, for exactly the kind of reasons you described: the universe and our position in it are not stationary.
This website has a chart for the updated dates (note also that they had to add another zodiac sign because of parallax or something)
Some systems kept things aligned with the people, some kept things aligned with the stars. Then there's tropical vs sidereal. And even more complexity to further confound.
And it's hilarious to watch people try to discredit all astrology with cherry picked argument from ignorance fallacies. Can't get there from here.
Like when the misalignment with constellations are cited as reason to throw out all astrology as utter bunk, one can retort "so the aspects are still aligned?". XD
One thing that could have an effect is the time of year you are born because it seasonal changes. A spring baby will be exposed to more sunlight than a fall baby in the first 6 months of life outside the womb, and the opposite for the second 6 months.
What that actually affects other than maybe the strength of their immune system early on, I can only speculate about. But it would be a mechanism through which birth sign can be correlated to personality or health.
And if there is such a correlation, it would make sense that the signs and dates falling out of sync as the constellations process wouldn't have any effect on anything because the stars and planets don't matter as much as the seasons do.
Though it does make me wonder if there have been studies analyzing personality difference statistics based on birthdate. Though I think it would have to be based on full birthdate (year included) due to year to year weather variations, as well as location dependent due to geographical weather variations. Like if there is such a correlation, it's probably stronger in Canada than California.
That (seasonal/weather/climate changes) would be handy data to have to tease out what remains of whatever gravitational/light/torsion/whatever influences remain.
I wonder who would have the resources, interest, and integrity, to fund, facilitate and honestly report the results of any such study.
The biological/epigenetic responses to such subtle influences could be quite varied, in depth of analysis.
Even if there was influence, we're still shaped by the environment in which we grow, especially personality, so no you couldn't predict only from the starting point. Maybe if one day we are able to perfectly simulate a brain and record the entirety of a life, then we may be able to predict a personality. But that's not happening anytime soon.
And a massive reason for legal abortions; I wouldn't want my children to become the passive aggressive, depressive smartass I am. Better to make sure they're born some other date of the year.
Already the outer planets have moved to other signs, and the inner planets wont be in the same positions; wont be forming the same aspects, to that same day of the year, not to mention the further processions and passage of the sun around the galaxy hitting different phases of gravitational waves. Way more going on than just Sol & Earth.
assumption that our solar system is stationary and that every year, the earth nears the exact same location as your birth.
I've been casually investigating several astrological systems for years (even since still in my militant atheist materialist phase)... and I've not encountered this assumption before. Can you tell me in which astrological system is this assumption found? Sounds interesting.
It's Taurus that's the statistically the more cliche incredulous and dismissive and certain that astrology's bunk.
Aquarius are the most interested in astrology. (Likely (at least) in part because the profiles and readings are often most flattering to Aquarius ~ how much that's a feedback loop, or how much it's due to being fixed air, I know not... hard to tease out.)
Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely that the relative position of the planets and the stars could have a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you but let me reassure that these forecasts and predictions are all based on solid scientific documented evidence and you would have to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of them is absolutely true where was I?
Not to be that guy... But stars and planets definitely have the potential to affect all of our lives, just not in any positive w-- the sun goes supernova
Our sun will never go supernova because it's too small for that. As hydrogen runs out, it will grow to a red giant by burning off the helium it produced and will expand to about Mars' orbit. When the helium runs out too, it will then collapse to a white dwarf and release dust clouds into what formerly was our solar system and then it just huffs out like a candle in the wind.
To go supernova, our sun would need about 10 times its mass.
Most stars (comparatively), I'm pretty sure there's one pretty close to us that lights up the only half the world at a time, that one might be more relevant.
True. It should say "the positions of planets and stars at the time of your birth won't effect your future in any meaningful way" but that's a little long.
My favorite thing is that astrologers are working with a 'zodiac' of stars which is so old, the stars have changed position in the sky and their zodiacal charts aren't even accurate if you just up.
Also IIRC there should be thirteen astrological signs but that number was unpopular so the charts were fudged to make them fit twelve. So they aren't accurate for any age.
?Ophiuchus is one of the thirteen constellations that cross the ecliptic.[65] It has sometimes been suggested as the "13th sign of the zodiac". However, this confuses zodiac or astrological signs with constellations.[66] The signs of the zodiac are a twelve-fold division of the ecliptic, so that each sign spans 30° of celestial longitude, approximately the distance the Sun travels in a month, and (in the Western tradition) are aligned with the seasons so that the March equinox always falls on the boundary between Pisces and Aries.[67][68] Constellations, on the other hand, are unequal in size and are based on the positions of the stars. The constellations of the zodiac have only a loose association with the signs of the zodiac, and do not in general coincide with them.[69] In Western astrology the constellation of Aquarius, for example, largely corresponds to the sign of Pisces. Similarly, the constellation of Ophiuchus occupies most (29 November – 18 December[70]) of the sign of Sagittarius (23 November – 21 December). The differences are due to the fact that the time of year that the Sun passes through a particular zodiac constellation's position has slowly changed (because of the precession of the Earth's rotational axis) over the centuries from when the Babylonians originally developed the Zodiac.[71][72]
I mean… there is sidereal astrology, which does account for the precession of the equinoxes. And tropical astrology has explanations and justifications to be how it is. It’s not just “oh dumb astrologers don’t even know the stars changed!”. Like, their whole thing is looking at stars and stuff. They sure know it.
Like, their whole thing is looking at stars and stuff. They sure know it.
They look at stars the same way flat earthers look at the world around them.
That link doesn't explain it at all, it's like watching fundamental religious people argue about how the Bible actually makes sense and applies to today.
The link does explain it, and if you listened to fundamental Christians describe their beliefs, you’d understand them better. You don’t have to agree, but if you never have an open mind even to things you disagree with you will never understand them.
That's not true! They can soothe your mind while watching them, they could light your path on a very very dark night in the wilderness, they help you navigate, they're a nice hobby for some people, even a profession for some. Boom! QED mate!
:D Heheeeee. :D My first ThinkPad, I named "GeneRay" after Gene Ray, it arriving on his birthday, and so started my convention of naming my laptops after some famous person born on the day I got it. ... Typing this from "Tyson", and next to it, is "Mozart" (currently used as a server), and off to the side is the EeePC "Ferraris" (replacing "Mendeleev" that died in a lightning storm).
That was just fun for me, to see Gene Ray mentioned.
I've read before that astrology can actually be a good indicator of personality IF the person actually believes in astrology in the first place. It becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where the person models their personality after whatever they've been told they're supposed to be like. Astrology seems to just use alot of universal personality traits that probably anybody could manifest at some point in their life. So then a person who believes in it probably internalizes a few specific traits as "their" personality and after awhile just turn to that trait automatically.
No idea how true it actually is, but it seemed to make some amount of sense. It could potentially be useful if you're dealing with a person who believes in astrology, but it's such a random thing that it'd be just as useful to study Myers-Briggs personality types.
I first got intrigued to investigate astrology, while disbelieving it as utter bunk, when someone correctly "guessed" (asserted with certainty) what my sun sign was, from my personality/behaviour. I have since gone on to be able to fathom several other people's sun signs from not only their behaviour, but their appearance[1].
But for sure, there are feedback loops.
Prediction or projection? Ever the feedback loop quandary.
[1: You can literally see it. In shorthand, by faces alone (though there are many other clues)...:
Aries, you can see the aries glyph on their face, in the eyebrows.
Taureans have a T on their face with a more flat eyebrow.
Gemini have the twins facing each other on their face.
Cancerians have a "moon face", sometimes can see a crab-like appearance too to help distinguish from Librans.
Leos have a lion-like nose/mouth/jaw protrusion/carving.
Virgos have the tell tale "large cheeks". [Edit: Heart shaped "spade faced" too.]
Librans have "lightbulb head" (and a softness of features).
Scorpios have a scorpion like severity to their face. (Like Capricorns, hard to describe)
Sagittarian (I think the easiest to spot) have a rectangle forehead.
Capricorn's kinda goaty, kinda see it in the severity in their eyes, and a sharpness of features (like cheekbones).
Aquarius I find harder to spot by their face (because of uniqueness), best clue, lower top eyelids, I often mistake for Taureans.
Pisces are best detected in the eyes that look like two fish jumping out of the water towards each other.
And if you then couple appearance with personality traits, it gets easier to see/guesstimate. Some people manage to tune their sight to see it constantly, effortlessly, whereas some people "never" see it, much like magic eye pictures. Then of course, there's rising sign and moon sign (or stelliums) that typically next have the biggest influence on appearance, which may be worth enquiring if guessing sun sign incorrectly, to see if you were seeing those other influences. Once you know what to look for, sometimes it stands out strikingly obvious.]
Is that like from some combination system, like pirmal astrology (western sun sign + chinese year)?
* wanders (dances) away, singing "Dance, dance, wherever you may be. I am the lord of the dance said he. And I lead you all, wherever you may be, and Iead you all in the dance said he." in a loop... much like did when was in a holding cell that one time, to keep spirits up.*
I fail to find where improve was offered. I believe the discourse is upon the "have an affect" and I assure you being under the influence of a high gravity VS low gravity and even not mentioning the various radiations and their levels, the stars and planets affect you 100%af
If that happens, the debate would be moot because we'd all be vaporized, or we'd be sent back to the stone ages, depending on how far away the star is.
So... Jupiter pulls the barycenter outside Sol... but this has no effect on our lives... interesting. How's this possible that we're insulated from any influence?
It's too bad when people take these things too seriously. Astrology taken as an amusement or even as a personal meditation/problem solving toolbox (IMO, Tarot excels in this) can have some value. The horoscopes and natal charts haven't really never interested me, but there are some variations like horary astrology that are a bit quirkier.
It’s too bad when people take these things too seriously.
Naw, it's fun to just deadpan it with facts, imagining the voice of Richard Ayoade. ;)
And, +1 for Tarot. I was doubly dismissive of it for ages (oft saying things like "just read the room/reality all around, without the reductive set"). Now it's fun to entertain ideas between there being some kind of quantum entangled collective unconscious stuff going on, and it just being placebo positive ideas to Rorschach-test over and introspect and reflect upon.
This really doesn't seem like shitting on others, just more like shitting on Astrology itself. It's also really not that harsh, in my opinion, at least.
It's crazier to me that people will make life changing decisions based on Astrological readings. They can be harmful. It's not wrong to criticize the idea itself, as long as it's not directly towards others.
was more talking about the comments that crop up when memes like this come around. The post itself seemed mostly fine if a bit primed for these kinds of conversations
Crazy to me that it is acceptable for the irrational beliefs to remain unchallenged. That somehow pointing out that people are being conned is oppression.
Astrology impacts your life. It might not seem like it if you live in the West but it is hardly just for entertainment in Asia. The very demographics of humanity has been altered because of the people trying to have kids in the year of the Dragon.
ah yes. c/dankmemes the penultimate place for discourse on the social impacts of science and religion. Y'all taking this shit too seriously which is my entire point. Obviously if it's an issue it's an issue. But the meme is clearly for a western audience by a western audience. And most people on forum aggregators like Lemmy attack people for stuff they barely understand. The average latte drinking middle class valley girl isn't harming anyone by talking about their chakras and tarot cards. It's literally just a comfort thing for their subculture. You sound like my mom yelling about starving children in Africa when I wouldn't eat her spaghetti. Just straight to the dumbest extreme
Right except for I have never once seen a situation where being wrong has offered a long term benefit to a person.
To the extent our models reflect the universe accurately is the extent that our decisions can be informed. A small irrational belief you are right probably not the biggest deal but I don't know how you established that this is the case here. Who knows how many "average latte drinking middle class valley girls" made decisions about employment, friendship, relationships, schooling based on this stuff?
Anecdotal I know but my wife's family is from the part of the world where it is taken seriously. Pretty close to our wedding my MIL sent us her blessing because her fortune teller signed off on it. I am curious, do you think it would have no impact had the fortune teller said otherwise? Like if you are the type of person to spend money going to a fortune teller to ask deeply private questions do you think you would ignore what they said?
You don't get to decide what it a "good model" for an individual. What matters is whether or not the individual is making positive changes in their life by adapting models to their benefit. You should reevaluate your understanding of "truth," because it's not just how the world literally is, but is more importantly how people experience it. The measure of their character isn't determined by your desire to fit their world view into a nicey labeled box
I think there's a distinction to be made between the people who use this as a bit of light entertainment and the people who substitute contemporary mysticism in lieu of empirical observation and confirmation.
Also the grifters. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of grifters in this space. Which is interesting to note.
Contemporary mysticism seems to reinforce a disregard of scepticism as well as serves to obfuscate the true wonders of the observable universe.
of course! Not saying that this isn't an issue at the extreme. But social circles like Lemmy are quick to jump to conclusions and start judging people. The meme is clearly from a western context for a western context where by-and-large the effects are mostly aesthetic and harmless
Narcissistic personality disorder's a "fun" area of psychology to explore. The way they put down others to keep themselves comparatively above others in their fragile egoic minds, like entering social-domination mode for their perceived survival is a constant compunction for them, unable to distinguish from their inner world that other people really exist beyond just a means to their own petty ends, and will never honestly introspect on it.
Men will mock astrology then wear dirty panties week to week so their favorite sports team will win.
Magic thinking is in all of us. It makes more sense to view the sky and seasons as affecting your personality than half the luck, karma, prayer bullshit half the people mocking this stuff do
Personally I think there is reason in astrology. Animals literally have babies at a specific time of year, this habit predates fucking mammals themselves.
So babies born in winter might have a different temperament than those born in summer it makes sense to me evolutionarily. More than any other magic think I can think of.
edit: panty wearing magic thinking sports boys triggered
I'm pretty sure I don't have any beliefs like this, at least not consciously. If I noticed myself falling into a mindset like that, I would probably chastise myself for such foolishness.
You're logic be like:
I'm an irrational guy => everyone is irrational => my kind of irrational is better than their kind of irrational because reasons.
Men will mock astrology then wear dirty panties week to week so their favorite sports team will win.
I don't wear the same pair of underpants game to game, but then the Astros also didn't clear the ALC so to everyone in Houston I extend my formal apologies.
I'm with you. In ye olden times, hitting different development milestones during points of the year with different resource availabilities probably had an effect on personalities, and once a pattern is observed people like to make up a story to explain it. If you aren't letting it rule your life it's a bit of harmless fun. Like a lucky number or color. People are too protective of their own irrationalities while denouncing other's.
I mean, the sun is a star, and that one definitely affects your life
earth is a planet. it might play a role, too.
oh, planets, plural. well, jupiter's massive gravity helped clear and shape the solar system, and the planets (except mercury) align to its orbital plane, not the sun's 'equator'.
also stars helped people to navigate
Also there are tons of people who do give in to astrology that do effect your life by their reacting in different ways to how others read those signs.
But since they all listen to different astrologists and those provide uncoordinated predictions that influence is somewhat mitigated because it affects you in all directions at once
Not depending on the time of year you were born though
eh, I have my birthday near midterm season every year, I'd say that's the sun's fault for being where it was when I was born.
Earth's fault for it to rotate around a fixed axis at that spot relative to the sun each year.
So horoscopes are true after all, who would have guessed
What constellation does the Sun belong to?
The Big Lamp of course
Depends on who you ask!
I once saw the headline
Dog Breeds You Should NOT Get Based on Your Astrological Sign
I did not click but as an optimist, I imagined the content would be nothing but
I thought this was an image.
Markdown and Unicode can do cool things
same, specially since i'm using a css style on lemmy and for whatever reason the table is not styled
Can you share a screenshot?
found it here, mine is catppuccin macchiato variant. i used the stylus extension to apply the theme.
I like Chihuahuas :(
Let's just say for a moment that the placement of the planet earth at the moment of your birth actually mattered. Hell, if conscience was pulled from dark matter or dark energy at the moment of our birthday as Earth past through a certain area are the universe, that would be a cool idea.
But the problem with astrology is this assumption that our solar system is stationary and that every year, the earth nears the exact same location as your birth.
But this is entirely wrong because the sun is orbiting the super massive black hole at the center of the galaxy. So even if you believed the astrology stuff, you would have to make a calendar for 230 million years.
But wait the universe is expanding and our galaxy is moving! Even after a galactic year you would still not be located at the location of your birth. Woops astrology is dumb.
The zodiac constallations don't even line up with their original dates anymore, for exactly the kind of reasons you described: the universe and our position in it are not stationary.
This website has a chart for the updated dates (note also that they had to add another zodiac sign because of parallax or something)
And it's even more complicated than that.
Some systems kept things aligned with the people, some kept things aligned with the stars. Then there's tropical vs sidereal. And even more complexity to further confound.
And it's hilarious to watch people try to discredit all astrology with cherry picked argument from ignorance fallacies. Can't get there from here.
Like when the misalignment with constellations are cited as reason to throw out all astrology as utter bunk, one can retort "so the aspects are still aligned?". XD
One thing that could have an effect is the time of year you are born because it seasonal changes. A spring baby will be exposed to more sunlight than a fall baby in the first 6 months of life outside the womb, and the opposite for the second 6 months.
What that actually affects other than maybe the strength of their immune system early on, I can only speculate about. But it would be a mechanism through which birth sign can be correlated to personality or health.
And if there is such a correlation, it would make sense that the signs and dates falling out of sync as the constellations process wouldn't have any effect on anything because the stars and planets don't matter as much as the seasons do.
Though it does make me wonder if there have been studies analyzing personality difference statistics based on birthdate. Though I think it would have to be based on full birthdate (year included) due to year to year weather variations, as well as location dependent due to geographical weather variations. Like if there is such a correlation, it's probably stronger in Canada than California.
It can also decide if you're always the oldest or youngest person in your class, which might be a big deal
That (seasonal/weather/climate changes) would be handy data to have to tease out what remains of whatever gravitational/light/torsion/whatever influences remain.
I wonder who would have the resources, interest, and integrity, to fund, facilitate and honestly report the results of any such study.
The biological/epigenetic responses to such subtle influences could be quite varied, in depth of analysis.
wait wouldn't this mean you could predict people's personalities similar to how we can predict the weather but not change it
Even if there was influence, we're still shaped by the environment in which we grow, especially personality, so no you couldn't predict only from the starting point. Maybe if one day we are able to perfectly simulate a brain and record the entirety of a life, then we may be able to predict a personality. But that's not happening anytime soon.
And a massive reason for legal abortions; I wouldn't want my children to become the passive aggressive, depressive smartass I am. Better to make sure they're born some other date of the year.
Fret not. You cannot jump in the same river.
Already the outer planets have moved to other signs, and the inner planets wont be in the same positions; wont be forming the same aspects, to that same day of the year, not to mention the further processions and passage of the sun around the galaxy hitting different phases of gravitational waves. Way more going on than just Sol & Earth.
Man, this is grim but so spot-on
I've been casually investigating several astrological systems for years (even since still in my militant atheist materialist phase)... and I've not encountered this assumption before. Can you tell me in which astrological system is this assumption found? Sounds interesting.
That's such an aquarius thing to post
Surely you mean Taurus... right?
It's Taurus that's the statistically the more cliche incredulous and dismissive and certain that astrology's bunk.
Aquarius are the most interested in astrology. (Likely (at least) in part because the profiles and readings are often most flattering to Aquarius ~ how much that's a feedback loop, or how much it's due to being fixed air, I know not... hard to tease out.)
I feel like a random one should say, "your going to have a bad day"
I was expecting it under "cancer"
Libra: A big promotion is just around The corner for someone much more talented than you
-Weird Al
Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely that the relative position of the planets and the stars could have a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you but let me reassure that these forecasts and predictions are all based on solid scientific documented evidence and you would have to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of them is absolutely true where was I?
The stars and planets affect the lives of astronomers every day though.
pretty sure the earth is a planet and it does affect my life
Not to be that guy... But stars and planets definitely have the potential to affect all of our lives, just not in any positive w-- the sun goes supernova
Our sun will never go supernova because it's too small for that. As hydrogen runs out, it will grow to a red giant by burning off the helium it produced and will expand to about Mars' orbit. When the helium runs out too, it will then collapse to a white dwarf and release dust clouds into what formerly was our solar system and then it just huffs out like a candle in the wind.
To go supernova, our sun would need about 10 times its mass.
Or, rather than supernova (or ballooning to a giant, in a few billion years) just the flares and corona mass ejections.
Which in turn are influenced by (for one) Jupiter's influence on the sun cycle.
Most stars (comparatively), I'm pretty sure there's one pretty close to us that lights up the only half the world at a time, that one might be more relevant.
True. It should say "the positions of planets and stars at the time of your birth won't effect your future in any meaningful way" but that's a little long.
My favorite thing is that astrologers are working with a 'zodiac' of stars which is so old, the stars have changed position in the sky and their zodiacal charts aren't even accurate if you just up.
Also IIRC there should be thirteen astrological signs but that number was unpopular so the charts were fudged to make them fit twelve. So they aren't accurate for any age.
the 13th, if anyone's interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus_(astrology)
I mean… there is sidereal astrology, which does account for the precession of the equinoxes. And tropical astrology has explanations and justifications to be how it is. It’s not just “oh dumb astrologers don’t even know the stars changed!”. Like, their whole thing is looking at stars and stuff. They sure know it.
If you are actually interested or curious, here is a thread with explanations (it’s unfortunately on Reddit): https://www.reddit.com/r/astrology/comments/wr1iok/tropical_astrology_explanation/?sort=top
They just don't care 🌚
Also, with how popular astrology now, I'd wager that more than half astrologists don't know it and only care about some cargo cult attributes
They look at stars the same way flat earthers look at the world around them.
That link doesn't explain it at all, it's like watching fundamental religious people argue about how the Bible actually makes sense and applies to today.
The link does explain it, and if you listened to fundamental Christians describe their beliefs, you’d understand them better. You don’t have to agree, but if you never have an open mind even to things you disagree with you will never understand them.
That's not true! They can soothe your mind while watching them, they could light your path on a very very dark night in the wilderness, they help you navigate, they're a nice hobby for some people, even a profession for some. Boom! QED mate!
Not true, I will travel to view a solar eclipse, therefore at least one star is affecting my life.
OMG that's such an Aquarius thing to say.
How could they? They're not real and the earth is flat
Exactly. Also, there are 3 moons. Most people think there's only moon because only 1 at a time is visible.
And don't forget that time is cubed!!
I’m too educated-stupid to grasp such concepts!
Only Gene Ray was wise enough to grasp it. He has left us some time ago so all hope of understanding the nature of cubed time is lost.
:D Heheeeee. :D My first ThinkPad, I named "GeneRay" after Gene Ray, it arriving on his birthday, and so started my convention of naming my laptops after some famous person born on the day I got it. ... Typing this from "Tyson", and next to it, is "Mozart" (currently used as a server), and off to the side is the EeePC "Ferraris" (replacing "Mendeleev" that died in a lightning storm).
That was just fun for me, to see Gene Ray mentioned.
Not expecting a reply to a 2 year old comment! That's an interesting naming procedure, thanks for sharing.
Probably something to do with the time cube.
The what now?
Time Cube was a website that got quite a lot of traffic back in the late 90s, early 2000s. Hers is a brief summary
For a deep dive, there's a great Down the Rabbit Hole video on youtube
Wow, I never heard of it. So much weirdness. Thanks for the links!
No problem, have fun down the rabbit hole
a capricorn made this smh
Actually, this planet affects my life every day.
I've read before that astrology can actually be a good indicator of personality IF the person actually believes in astrology in the first place. It becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where the person models their personality after whatever they've been told they're supposed to be like. Astrology seems to just use alot of universal personality traits that probably anybody could manifest at some point in their life. So then a person who believes in it probably internalizes a few specific traits as "their" personality and after awhile just turn to that trait automatically.
No idea how true it actually is, but it seemed to make some amount of sense. It could potentially be useful if you're dealing with a person who believes in astrology, but it's such a random thing that it'd be just as useful to study Myers-Briggs personality types.
Love the subtle Myers-Briggs roast you slipped in there!
I first got intrigued to investigate astrology, while disbelieving it as utter bunk, when someone correctly "guessed" (asserted with certainty) what my sun sign was, from my personality/behaviour. I have since gone on to be able to fathom several other people's sun signs from not only their behaviour, but their appearance[1].
But for sure, there are feedback loops.
Prediction or projection? Ever the feedback loop quandary.
[1: You can literally see it. In shorthand, by faces alone (though there are many other clues)...:
And if you then couple appearance with personality traits, it gets easier to see/guesstimate. Some people manage to tune their sight to see it constantly, effortlessly, whereas some people "never" see it, much like magic eye pictures. Then of course, there's rising sign and moon sign (or stelliums) that typically next have the biggest influence on appearance, which may be worth enquiring if guessing sun sign incorrectly, to see if you were seeing those other influences. Once you know what to look for, sometimes it stands out strikingly obvious.]
But what about if Mercury is in retrograde?
Mercury in your Gatorade will have a definite impact on your life.
https://www.ismercuryinretrograde.com/
Reminds me of this:
http://www.howdovaccinescauseautism.com/
Dinosaurs have been put on notice.
Man, there sure are a lot of smart people in this thread!
The well ack-shually crowd is showing the fuck up
i love reading daily astrology columns.
i can never remember what i am supposed to do so i just read those
so much easier than task lists
If I’m bored with a newspaper, I specifically read all but mine. Helps to prevent any subconscious influence it might have on me.
Or I read the previous newspaper and rate how many of the 11 could apply for the past day/week.
Mine told me I am the true lord of the dance, no matter what those idiots at work say.
Ok then, off with the shirt and get to clogging!
Is that like from some combination system, like pirmal astrology (western sun sign + chinese year)?
* wanders (dances) away, singing "Dance, dance, wherever you may be. I am the lord of the dance said he. And I lead you all, wherever you may be, and Iead you all in the dance said he." in a loop... much like did when was in a holding cell that one time, to keep spirits up.*
You won't be saying that when Earth drifts into the path of a gamma ray burst.
I won't cause I'll be dead
Space weather. Mhmm.
We're all using gold from a supernova right now to look at this
I can't even with how virgo this is
If the moon pulls waves from the sea, it definitely has an effect on us too
If they fall on earth, they do.
Also the sun probably has the most influence on us than any other thing in our lives.
Forgot about that.
found the virgin
That all depends upon how far away from any given Planet or Star you are, doesn't it?
I am very close to a planet and an comfortable distance from a star. I don't think radically changing either would improve my life.
I fail to find where improve was offered. I believe the discourse is upon the "have an affect" and I assure you being under the influence of a high gravity VS low gravity and even not mentioning the various radiations and their levels, the stars and planets affect you 100%af
Sure, I read horoscopes on the off-chance they might make my life worse
I know what it means but... Uh... It's technically quite wrong.
If a star does a Gamma Ray burst right in Earth's path we'll all be pretty strongly effected.
That's not even going over that Earth is a planet and the Sun is a star, both which are effecting us on a daily basis.
And the sun is gravitationally effected by other stars which in turn effects Earth which in turn effects us...
If that happens, the debate would be moot because we'd all be vaporized, or we'd be sent back to the stone ages, depending on how far away the star is.
The dose makes the poison.
We're being hit by gamma ray bursts from far far away all the time.
Dank
Wait, does anybody knows what happens for ophiuchus people? :/
May as well just think of them on the cusp of Scorpio and Sagittarius. They have the galactic core in their sign. ;D
https://youtu.be/sPvyrWYutDQ?si=Dcn21RMQAAVt8xBw
So... Jupiter pulls the barycenter outside Sol... but this has no effect on our lives... interesting. How's this possible that we're insulated from any influence?
Man, people really want to believe in some wacky stuff.
It's too bad when people take these things too seriously. Astrology taken as an amusement or even as a personal meditation/problem solving toolbox (IMO, Tarot excels in this) can have some value. The horoscopes and natal charts haven't really never interested me, but there are some variations like horary astrology that are a bit quirkier.
Naw, it's fun to just deadpan it with facts, imagining the voice of Richard Ayoade. ;)
And, +1 for Tarot. I was doubly dismissive of it for ages (oft saying things like "just read the room/reality all around, without the reductive set"). Now it's fun to entertain ideas between there being some kind of quantum entangled collective unconscious stuff going on, and it just being placebo positive ideas to Rorschach-test over and introspect and reflect upon.
Crazy to me that people make it their life's mission to shit on others for the most random things
This really doesn't seem like shitting on others, just more like shitting on Astrology itself. It's also really not that harsh, in my opinion, at least.
It's crazier to me that people will make life changing decisions based on Astrological readings. They can be harmful. It's not wrong to criticize the idea itself, as long as it's not directly towards others.
was more talking about the comments that crop up when memes like this come around. The post itself seemed mostly fine if a bit primed for these kinds of conversations
Oh okay fair. Yea some people can take it way too far. It's never cool to disparage people.
Crazy to me that it is acceptable for the irrational beliefs to remain unchallenged. That somehow pointing out that people are being conned is oppression.
Astrology impacts your life. It might not seem like it if you live in the West but it is hardly just for entertainment in Asia. The very demographics of humanity has been altered because of the people trying to have kids in the year of the Dragon.
ah yes. c/dankmemes the penultimate place for discourse on the social impacts of science and religion. Y'all taking this shit too seriously which is my entire point. Obviously if it's an issue it's an issue. But the meme is clearly for a western audience by a western audience. And most people on forum aggregators like Lemmy attack people for stuff they barely understand. The average latte drinking middle class valley girl isn't harming anyone by talking about their chakras and tarot cards. It's literally just a comfort thing for their subculture. You sound like my mom yelling about starving children in Africa when I wouldn't eat her spaghetti. Just straight to the dumbest extreme
Right except for I have never once seen a situation where being wrong has offered a long term benefit to a person.
To the extent our models reflect the universe accurately is the extent that our decisions can be informed. A small irrational belief you are right probably not the biggest deal but I don't know how you established that this is the case here. Who knows how many "average latte drinking middle class valley girls" made decisions about employment, friendship, relationships, schooling based on this stuff?
Anecdotal I know but my wife's family is from the part of the world where it is taken seriously. Pretty close to our wedding my MIL sent us her blessing because her fortune teller signed off on it. I am curious, do you think it would have no impact had the fortune teller said otherwise? Like if you are the type of person to spend money going to a fortune teller to ask deeply private questions do you think you would ignore what they said?
You don't get to decide what it a "good model" for an individual. What matters is whether or not the individual is making positive changes in their life by adapting models to their benefit. You should reevaluate your understanding of "truth," because it's not just how the world literally is, but is more importantly how people experience it. The measure of their character isn't determined by your desire to fit their world view into a nicey labeled box
I never claimed I get to decide that. Reality doesn't consult me about anything.
And no sorry I have no use for solipsism. Materialism ftw. Deal with the universe exactly as it is; raw, uncaring, cold, huge, and ugly.
You're missing the point
I think there's a distinction to be made between the people who use this as a bit of light entertainment and the people who substitute contemporary mysticism in lieu of empirical observation and confirmation.
Also the grifters. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of grifters in this space. Which is interesting to note.
Contemporary mysticism seems to reinforce a disregard of scepticism as well as serves to obfuscate the true wonders of the observable universe.
of course! Not saying that this isn't an issue at the extreme. But social circles like Lemmy are quick to jump to conclusions and start judging people. The meme is clearly from a western context for a western context where by-and-large the effects are mostly aesthetic and harmless
Disproportionate? For what? Religion? Seems to me it has just the right amount of grift for made-up mystical belief system
It’s not my fault, the stars made me do it
Narcissistic personality disorder's a "fun" area of psychology to explore. The way they put down others to keep themselves comparatively above others in their fragile egoic minds, like entering social-domination mode for their perceived survival is a constant compunction for them, unable to distinguish from their inner world that other people really exist beyond just a means to their own petty ends, and will never honestly introspect on it.
Men will mock astrology then wear dirty panties week to week so their favorite sports team will win.
Magic thinking is in all of us. It makes more sense to view the sky and seasons as affecting your personality than half the luck, karma, prayer bullshit half the people mocking this stuff do
Personally I think there is reason in astrology. Animals literally have babies at a specific time of year, this habit predates fucking mammals themselves.
So babies born in winter might have a different temperament than those born in summer it makes sense to me evolutionarily. More than any other magic think I can think of.
edit: panty wearing magic thinking sports boys triggered
I'm pretty sure I don't have any beliefs like this, at least not consciously. If I noticed myself falling into a mindset like that, I would probably chastise myself for such foolishness.
You're logic be like: I'm an irrational guy => everyone is irrational => my kind of irrational is better than their kind of irrational because reasons.
or you know the more normal, awareness of magical thinking and still able to enjoy really normal things without being a dick lol
on a post mocking astrology typically a woman/queer hobby?
What? Wow. That's very sexist.
I don't wear the same pair of underpants game to game, but then the Astros also didn't clear the ALC so to everyone in Houston I extend my formal apologies.
I'm with you. In ye olden times, hitting different development milestones during points of the year with different resource availabilities probably had an effect on personalities, and once a pattern is observed people like to make up a story to explain it. If you aren't letting it rule your life it's a bit of harmless fun. Like a lucky number or color. People are too protective of their own irrationalities while denouncing other's.