Now, for an actual sane take, unless we do the actual marketing work in order to gather interest from people, no, not even close to everyone will switch to Linux, specially considering Microsoft has literal millions of dollars to spend in marketing and will likely spin this in a way that non-techy people specially will buy in due to not knowing any choice.
This is a PSA begging people to contribute to their favorite distros not (only) with code but with marketing. Social media posts, videos, word of mouth recommendations, advocacy, events, etc. If your distro doesn't have a marketing team, create one, as most projects should already have done two decades ago. If your distro has one (like we do in Fedora), join it. There'll likely be something you can help with.
This is extreme copium, sorry to say. You have no idea how much shit the average person will eat to prevent having to learn something new. For someone who has never manually installed an OS before, even Windows, the idea of doing that with something like Linux and potentially deleting their existing OS is genuinely frightening. Never underestimate the fact that people will pay through the nose to ensure they don't have to contend with the unknown.
As it turns out, the rumours discussed by some outlets are based on the “IoT Enterprise Subscription” of Windows 11, not Windows vNext. For those unaware, Windows 24H2 or Windows vNext is what Windows 12 is being called publicly.
As you can see in the above screenshots, the “subscription” code strings found in the preview builds are associated with a new Enterprise version of Windows 11 loT and have nothing to do with Windows 12 or future versions of the OS.
I’m not saying to use it or to not switch to linux, but maybe this isn’t that much of a concern.
I’d be more concerned about
the next version of Windows will be heavily integrated with AI and cloud capabilities.
Windows accounts for 12% of their profits, and I'm willing to bet that the consumer versions are a very small part of that. Most businesses are not buying OEM licenses. They are already using a subscription model for M365 which includes Windows licenses or a standard EA or SA agreement.
They learned after the Windows Phone that they don't need to win the client OS battle as long as they can get their other products on the devices. Since then Windows has really focused more on keeping you locked into the Microsoft ecosystem versus keeping locked into Windows itself. Hence why the upgrades have all been free where in the past you would have to repurchase each new edition of Windows.
Of course I could be completely wrong. They have done some bonkers stuff in the past.
Agreed. Also why they're more and more fucking annoying about OneDrive and O365 subs. I would be extremely surprised at seeing anyone at MS thinking the best way to monetize Windows is to get consumers, who are notoriously more and more tired of subs in general, is to get them to pay a sub fee on the computer they bought. Let's face it, virtually no one is buying a Windows license, it comes with the machine they buy. If you told people that they have to now pay a fee every month/year to keep using it.
I'm an early adopter of Linux (early as in 96-97) but I also run MacOS and Windows so I'm I tell you this from an unbiased point of view. Linux has never been easier to run. My daily driver is a ThinkPad running Pop!_OS Linux and I never have to think about it. I just installed and everything ran.
I don't game on my daily driver, I use MacOS for music. At this point Windows is relegated to Adobe Creative Suite, GeForce Now, and the occasional game I can't run on Linux or GeForce Now.
It's very gradual and fun because it's new. A lot of you being lazy is also just your safety mechanism kicking in so you don't dive into every single urge all the time.
Once you dip your toe, you'll be at it for a long and good time.
Just start by dual booting one of the "easy" distros and doing stuff that doesn't require Windows. Eventually you'll start spending more and more time on it out of comfort, then one day you may realise that you haven't needed your Windows partition in months, and can skip out on it entirely.
Another alternative is to use FOSS software this is available on Linux and Windows. Get used to the software before the desktop itself. For me, dual booting was a lot of work and wasn't fun. Maybe live booting for a session or two could be a way to go? I never tried that.
I made the switch about a two months ago. I'm using my windows side of my dual boot a hell of a lot less than I thought I would, mostly thanks to steam's proton.
Started with zorin, but eventually landed on mint.
The file explorer has some pretty limited options, and not many features. Or at least, it doesn't have some of the features I like by default.
It does have zorin connect, which is really nice, but I later found it it is a re-skinned version of KDE connect, so not much is lost by moving to another distro on that front.
It also seemed to not have as good windows support for certain things. BG3 kept on crashing on me for some unknown reason, with zero error messages to troubleshoot. On mint it worked first try, like it ought to.
At the end of the day, zorin just isn't as customizable as I want, whereas mint is.
Thank you! All the advertised built-in compatibility layers seemed too promising, so I’ve been wondering how often it breaks or doesn’t work as well as another distro. Also good to know the connect stuff can be added just by installing KDE. And Dolphin probably a better file manager.
What’s your preferred file manager, if you don’t mind?
Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with the compatability as well. But luckily it hasn't effected me too much on mint. So far only two programs I use haven't been compatible, and even then they aren't programs I use often.
What’s your preferred file manager, if you don’t mind?
Nemo, which is the default for mint.
Also another reason I switched to mint now that i remember, I wanted to switch to a non-Ubuntu system. The whole point of switching to Linux is to get away from all the corpos getting their hands on your system/data. Unfortunately I only learned how shitty canonical is about it after I unstalled zorin.
So I currently have mint debian edition installed.
Oh that’s great, you’re exactly the one I need to talk to then, because I’ve been debating why even go with an Ubuntu-based distro at all when it’s based on Debian, and whether or not the Debian version would be a better choice. I’ve been running multiple VMs trying to work out the differences.
Before I found Debian Mint, I wrote a script for base Debian 12.2 to auto-install wine, steam, and everything else I could think of based on what’s in Linux Mint and Garuda… then discovered Debian Mint and have been wondering if that’s my best choice, because I have no idea what I could be missing in the background on my Debian install, or didn’t set up correctly because I don’t know about it.
I also noticed that Debian Mint currently uses a newer kernel than Ubuntu Mint… 6.1.0-13 vs 5.15.0. For a newer kernel than that you have to go with the Ubuntu Mint EDGE version (6.2.0) or Arch (6.1.57-lts or 6.5.7-zen).
—
Has there been any particular thing you had to do to Debian Mint to make it work better for you?
I will say right off the bat, it sounds like you know a bit more about me, so whatever you decide will probably already be a pretty informed choice.
With that said, having used ubuntu occasionally in the past, it doesn't feel all that different from Debian. They are roughly equally functional, performant, etc.
Before I found Debian Mint, I wrote a script for base Debian 12.2 to auto-install
I probably should do something similar, because down the line who knows, I might need a full re-install.
because I have no idea what I could be missing in the background on my Debian install, or didn’t set up correctly because I don’t know about it.
Very anecdotally, like I said there has only been two programs that I haven't been able to get running that I really want. That's fusion360 and dungeon draft. Both of which I could pretty easily get running in a VM.
Actually now that I think about it, there is a 3d program, and that's fortnite. But that's because their management doesn't give a flying fuck about linux, and so their anti-cheat breaks the game. So no distro will be safe from that.
I also noticed that Debian Mint currently uses a newer kernel than Ubuntu Mint
Again, it sounds like you are much more informed about it than me. But personally, it hasn't made a difference for me. I can run my games, the basic internet browsing apps that I like, etc.
Has there been any particular thing you had to do to Debian Mint to make it work better for you?
The most complex thing that needed set up was getting my drives auto mounted on startup. But debian mint has a pretty straightforward way of setting it up, so it took maybe 5 seconds.
Beyond that, it's just been a small bit of effort setting up the programs I use. Steam, freetube, the prism minecraft launcher, my nvidia drivers, cura, KDE connect, gitkracken, vscode, vlc, etc. It is really low effort honestly, basically the same effort as windows. The software manager/library on debian has been pretty decent to me.
To be clear, it may be a linux meme, but it’s a post about a possible future with Windows, that may lead some to switch to linux. Windows users being in here, commenting and asking questions, isn’t weird.
Setting up a functional Linux environment can be accomplished within a comparable timeframe to that required for a Windows installation. When opting for user-friendly distributions such as Linux Mint or Ubuntu, the installation process becomes equally accessible for users, presenting no significant challenges when compared to Windows, so while you are entitled to hold this opinion, its factually incorrect.
Good luck, the vegans of the transistor realm have decided that complaining about fake news regarding windows is the best topic to just never shut the fuck up about.
I suspect most people that only use their Windows computer for general stuff like web browsing, e-mail, multi media, office etc., which is probably the majority by far, will actually fall for the subscription scam.
I subscribe to M365 because my kids’ schools all distribute their assignments as Word docs. And they apparently use the most obscure formatting features, so the only way to get them to render and print properly is to use full Office desktop. Not even the web apps show them properly, and LibreOffice / google docs import totally mangle them.
Exactly, it's going to be Office 365+Windows in a single package kinda deal.
Probably with a mostly functioning Windows left if you stop paying, but no access to specific features or Office.
It's just a way to get people to pay a few bucks a month extra for the Office 365 package, which in the long term culminates to getting full bank plus then some for Windows, instead of a one time flat fee people will then use for as long as they keep the system.
Most people I know use the same system/laptop for 3-4 years, some even as long as 6-8 years if the thing doesn't break down.
The subscription will likely be setup so that you pay what you'd normally pay for a basic Windows Home (100-130ish) within the first 2 years (say $5 a month) and every year you use the same device longer than that, is just extra gravy for Microsoft.
But I doubt they'll drop the simple license. There are to many devices where a subscription wouldn't work and especially in this day and age, connecting the device to the Internet for any length of time is a big nono for the user/company.
John Riccitelo sees your "they couldn't possibly be this self-destructive" and raises you a golden parachute.
To be clear, all the not-so-bad alternatives in this thread are still dealbreakers for me. I do pay for one Office sub, because I need it for work, but I have Windows installs in maybe half a dozen devices and I am NOT paying subscriptions for all of those.
The real silver lining is that if they do attempt it, and they might, it wouldn't be the first time a Windows version bombs so bad in favor of its predecessor that they have to roll things back immediately, so we have a pretty clear picture of what that would look like.
it wouldn't be the first time a Windows version bombs so bad in favor of its predecessor that they have to roll things back immediately, so we have a pretty clear picture of what that would look like.
The question is, would they care? End user business is a rather small position on their balance sheet I'd guess, it's rather big support contracts and Azure. Let the individual users complain for a while, they've eaten all the shit over the years anyways, they'll swallow another turd. My current employer justified switching from a Linux based system to Windows which took huge efforts with huge amounts of copium ("they've given in and understood our demands!") yet I bet more issues will arrive when Windows 10 support expires.
Businesses won't switch anyways, they never did in huge numbers, and private users are good at complaining and sometimes even holding out on old versions but once storage gets encrypted by ransomware that got in through unpatched security flaws in their no longer supported version of Windows, they'll pay up anyways.
But I guess MS just says this idea out loud now so that people can get enraged and then they'll do something less shitty and everyone will be like "we won! There's no subscription!"
They cared the last few times, hence my good news comment.
MS's revenue may be whatever it is, but Windows is definitely the crown jewel. There is no way MS would live through it cratering in home use. Not in this weather.
It’s none of the above. Turns out all the references to a subscription in the test builds were to Windows Internet of Things Enterprise subscription edition. Most enterprise things are ran on a subscription type license where you pay for support and rights to use it on an annual basis.
It was if you pretend anything before service pack 1 didn't happen, I saw so many infected machines back then it wasn't even funny. And I guess the more professional users saw it as a downgrade from Windows 2000.
My suspicion is that home installations will still be available at retail or OEM channels.
The subscription likely applies more to enterprise and possibly Windows 365. Enterprise licensing is a mess which might actually be simplified by a subscription pay-what-you-actually-use model.
Also it’s be cool to see windows 365 come to consumers as an alternative to a full PC. Would be able to standardize on home thin-client builds, or possibly add it as a feature to the Xbox Platform.
I’m just imagining a not-so-distant future where there’s $200 set-top boxes that can hook up to any HDMI port and have a current-gen cloud console and a nearly fully functional PC. Or cloud laptops that have W365 bundled in as part of a 5G service.
Except it's still hell for online games with anti-cheat. Just about every other month, another article comes out about "Linux players unable to launch..." or "Linux players banned from..."
Idk, I see this argument every time this discussion comes up but I've yet to experience anti cheat issues. I don't think they don't exist but it's been extremely smooth sailing for me
Apple is by far the worst offender of expensive shit products. It's not going to make apple gain shit...the barrier to entry for an apple computer is just fucking stupid for what you get...nothing that good.
Was already looking to jump ship at the file explorers having ads as a "test" but boy howdy, do it Microsoft. This would push me to make the Linux switch outright.
Still just a bit worried about everything I use not being compatible. Windows is the normie choice so chances are if it exists there's a Windows version but with Linux I'd start from scratch.
Tell you what, when I replace my motherboard in a couple weeks, I'll slot this M.2 I've got and put a Linux partition on it. Any recommendations on what 'version' to start with for a heavy gamer? The different names of Linux 'versions' are kernels, right?
The different names of Linux 'versions' are kernels, right?
Not really, the kernel is basically the only thing all distros share in common. The different Linux "distros" (as in distributions) are called that precisely because they have different ways of distributing the software they use to build the OS. They use different means to achieve the same goal.
Any recommendations on what 'version' to start with for a heavy gamer?
I am biased towards Fedora since I am a contributor of the project, but you can't go wrong with Ubuntu either. It's more popular so there's a lot more content about it online if you need help.
The only thing I recommend against is using small, niche distros or DIY distros (like Arch) as your first. Stick with big distros with big communities and don't be afraid to ask questions in the forums if there's any doubts or if you face any issues.
It sounds daunting in the beginning, but it's way easier than the internet make it seem.
Ah okay, thank you for clearing the terminology up a bit. So the distros are what have different names and have unique contributions from different people, the kernel is just the common 'core' they expand off? I think I got it.
I hear a lot of people mention Arch to the point it's a meme but I'll take your advice and steer clear. Ubuntu is the one I'm probably most familiar with on a name basis to the point I thought it and 'Linux' meant the same thing. I might start with Ubuntu only for the sake of documentation and once I get a familiar idea of how to do basic commands and troubleshooting, I'll give your Fedora a shot.
The only thing that's kept me from the switch is compatibility concerns. Lots and lots of people harp on about that and until Steam Deck I wasn't even sure I'd be able to game with it. I'm ready to break my Microsoft chains though.
I wasn't even sure I'd be able to game with it. I'm ready to break my Microsoft chains though.
Oh, don't worry, unless you are really into competitive multiplayer games with anti-cheat software, you'll likely have a great experience gaming on Linux! Just don't forget to tick the Proton compatibility layer option on Steam's settings (if they haven't yet made that the default, I'm not sure nowadays).
In any case, if you're wary if a certain game you want to play is playable or not, just check on ProtonDB.
I run everything but work and a gaming rig on some flavor of Linux.
In the past, I ran all Linux except work, so even gaming.
I just missed the ease of use of third party tools, mostly for modding sjbgke player games.
Maybe vortex works and I just don't understand his to use it on Linux, buy I've also run into third party tools for other games (again, single player - not trying to cheat necessarily, though some questionable QoL mods end up creeping in after a few play through) and I'm not sure how to get them to run.
I've always had trouble with wine, never set up lutris, but proton was a boon for gamers everywhere, Linux or otherwise.
Anyone have a primer for a power user (sysadmin type duties on my own server, have been using Kali as an educational tool since back track) that's pegged at gamers making the switch to Linux? I've mostly just figured it out looking to random guides and stack overflow, lol.
Wait. A few years ago, Windows decided they couldn't keep up with warez, so they allowed unactivated Windows for the first time. Now, they are going back to paid model, just to let the piracy shine up again!
In addition, this means, that if I bought a computer with Windows pre-installed, I couldn't operate it? This will render OEM Windows installation useless. So.. year of the Linux Desktop?
Theyre gonna follow the Adobe model and use online DRM to make it impossible to pirate. You can't pirate software if core functionality depends on online services.
I've successfully banished all Microsoft trash from my home network but I also work at an MSP all day while having "God damn it Microsoft" tourette syndrome 8 hours a day so I think I might become an evil villain if/when that goes live.
Unfortunately, unless Microsoft fucks up BIG time and makes Windows simply unusable, people will continue to use it. I think the year of the Linux desktop will come by the time GTA VII gets released, once we all here are six feet under.
I'm glad to see somebody else as salty as I am over them removing that feature for Windows 11, as that immediately killed any enthusiasm I had towards it.
I rock an ultrawide monitor. You know how many needless pixels a bottom task bar takes up on that thing? If I wanted to stick duck tape on a third of my screen I would do that.
So I went and paid for StartAllBack immediately. Because screw that.
Exactly. Even on regular width monitor, you still have so much more horizontal space to spare than vertical, so putting it on the side just makes sense!
How Microsoft don't see that, at least anymore, is astounding to me
There are a lot of pro audio tools available on Linux. I myself use some of the more basic tools, such as the universal plugin host Carla to host LV2/3, VST and LADSPA based audio plugins. And a basic lightweight MIDI mixing sftware called jack_mixer, combine that with a patchbay like qpwgraph, and virtual audio channels set up through pactl and I have a custom, lightweight but infinitely expandable plugin chain and mixer set up I can use for video recording and streaming.
But software ranges from that all the way to full featured integrated DAW setups and everything in between.
I've been considering making the move to Linux for a few months now. If this comes to pass that will more than likely be the final nail in the coffin. Based on what I've seen, Linux has become a lot more user friendly since I messed with it when I had it on a mini laptop back in the day.
I will never buy subscription software intended to run on my hardware.
If it runs on my machine, and any non-local services are not key to the core product functionality. I'm buying a perpetual license or you're not getting a penny.
Even if w!ndøws did start charging a subscription for their OS, you would not see a single change in the states in places like schools , libraries, or anywhere else with nearly public computer access.
W!ndøws has so much of a foothold on the PC market and everybody from your ancient 90 year old grandma to your 90 day old already know how it works and how to use it. The average person would absolutely protest and complain if there was a switch to Linux (or BSD or anything similar) since they might actually have to learn more than just the basics of how to use a computer.
Gotta remember in the workforce - the youngest people in our workforce used an iPad or an android phone before they touched Windows. Those minds are gonna be way more open to alternatives.
I love that people downvoted you... they clearly don't have kids. My kids know Android... because of tablets and my wife's phone... they've spent little to no time in from of an actual computer and the laptops in schools are chromebooks. I'd like someone to point out where windows is in any of this.
Yeah, I haven't been in public school for over a half decade, for one, and two, all computers at my school were windows. My knowledge on public schools is outdated.
Can yall idiots just fact-check for a goddamn second? https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/10/16/no-windows-12-is-a-free-upgrade-and-wont-require-a-subscription/
Edit: Just type "windows 12 subscription" into your search bar. It's fewer words than any of these comments!
No man dont ruin Linux rabid users from bitching about Windows.
Someone mentioned Linux!
I use Arch btw.
But but but that's not as fun as hearing a bunch of Linux users bitch about shit they heard once maybe.
Really though this website seems to have more misinformation and just general stupidity than even reddit.
I simply just hate windows and dont care if its true or not. they sell you without subscription.
It's only free since they assume you'll be paying for windows11 subscription.
if this is true I might actually stop being lazy and mess with Linux for my personal systems
Please do.
One of us, one of us!
There is no "us" or "them". If Microsoft will maintain its streak of spoiling everything they touch, everyone will switch to Linux sooner or later 😉
Now, for an actual sane take, unless we do the actual marketing work in order to gather interest from people, no, not even close to everyone will switch to Linux, specially considering Microsoft has literal millions of dollars to spend in marketing and will likely spin this in a way that non-techy people specially will buy in due to not knowing any choice.
This is a PSA begging people to contribute to their favorite distros not (only) with code but with marketing. Social media posts, videos, word of mouth recommendations, advocacy, events, etc. If your distro doesn't have a marketing team, create one, as most projects should already have done two decades ago. If your distro has one (like we do in Fedora), join it. There'll likely be something you can help with.
Okay, you've got a point 😅
Arch doesn't need a marketing department. If someone uses Arch they'll tell you.
@averagedrunk @joojmachine I use arch btw
This is suspiciously similar to the original pitch Torvalds made for Linux... I'm in!
That's true. We're just getting the window managers and drivers ready for everyone who will follow us.
This is extreme copium, sorry to say. You have no idea how much shit the average person will eat to prevent having to learn something new. For someone who has never manually installed an OS before, even Windows, the idea of doing that with something like Linux and potentially deleting their existing OS is genuinely frightening. Never underestimate the fact that people will pay through the nose to ensure they don't have to contend with the unknown.
But but but 2023 is the year of Linux on the steam deck! 🎉
https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/10/16/no-windows-12-is-a-free-upgrade-and-wont-require-a-subscription/
I’m not saying to use it or to not switch to linux, but maybe this isn’t that much of a concern.
I’d be more concerned about
Windows accounts for 12% of their profits, and I'm willing to bet that the consumer versions are a very small part of that. Most businesses are not buying OEM licenses. They are already using a subscription model for M365 which includes Windows licenses or a standard EA or SA agreement.
They learned after the Windows Phone that they don't need to win the client OS battle as long as they can get their other products on the devices. Since then Windows has really focused more on keeping you locked into the Microsoft ecosystem versus keeping locked into Windows itself. Hence why the upgrades have all been free where in the past you would have to repurchase each new edition of Windows.
Of course I could be completely wrong. They have done some bonkers stuff in the past.
Agreed. Also why they're more and more fucking annoying about OneDrive and O365 subs. I would be extremely surprised at seeing anyone at MS thinking the best way to monetize Windows is to get consumers, who are notoriously more and more tired of subs in general, is to get them to pay a sub fee on the computer they bought. Let's face it, virtually no one is buying a Windows license, it comes with the machine they buy. If you told people that they have to now pay a fee every month/year to keep using it.
Good ol click bait titles.
Couldn’t tell you, I’m on 10 myself because my laptop is old and doesn’t meet the TPM requirement. Which, tbh, is probably best.
I'm an early adopter of Linux (early as in 96-97) but I also run MacOS and Windows so I'm I tell you this from an unbiased point of view. Linux has never been easier to run. My daily driver is a ThinkPad running Pop!_OS Linux and I never have to think about it. I just installed and everything ran.
I don't game on my daily driver, I use MacOS for music. At this point Windows is relegated to Adobe Creative Suite, GeForce Now, and the occasional game I can't run on Linux or GeForce Now.
Truly ungovernable, mad respect.
No doubt. LibreOffice is way better than the windows office sweet now. Seriously zippy fast and easy to use. And less stuff breaks.
I haven’t found it that difficult. Just take the plunge.
I'm not concerned with difficulty just that it'll take a bit of my time
yes I'm lazy
It's very gradual and fun because it's new. A lot of you being lazy is also just your safety mechanism kicking in so you don't dive into every single urge all the time.
Once you dip your toe, you'll be at it for a long and good time.
Just start by dual booting one of the "easy" distros and doing stuff that doesn't require Windows. Eventually you'll start spending more and more time on it out of comfort, then one day you may realise that you haven't needed your Windows partition in months, and can skip out on it entirely.
Another alternative is to use FOSS software this is available on Linux and Windows. Get used to the software before the desktop itself. For me, dual booting was a lot of work and wasn't fun. Maybe live booting for a session or two could be a way to go? I never tried that.
It's easy if you know how to manage your anger
oh I'm experienced with anger I assure you. I work with CSS and PHP in my job
😱
you'll do fine then
Or not. Swearing at the screen and punching the keyboard always feel cathartic after failling to do something for the nth time.
well, lucky you. When i get super pissed i keep being tempted to snap my own fingers
Please don't do that.
fine.
Thank you. Much obliged.
Yeah, these don't do anything for me. Good suggestion tho
News flash, it's not
I made the switch about a two months ago. I'm using my windows side of my dual boot a hell of a lot less than I thought I would, mostly thanks to steam's proton.
Started with zorin, but eventually landed on mint.
I’m trying to narrow down today’s distro choices, would you mind telling why you switched away from Zorin?
The file explorer has some pretty limited options, and not many features. Or at least, it doesn't have some of the features I like by default.
It does have zorin connect, which is really nice, but I later found it it is a re-skinned version of KDE connect, so not much is lost by moving to another distro on that front.
It also seemed to not have as good windows support for certain things. BG3 kept on crashing on me for some unknown reason, with zero error messages to troubleshoot. On mint it worked first try, like it ought to.
At the end of the day, zorin just isn't as customizable as I want, whereas mint is.
Thank you! All the advertised built-in compatibility layers seemed too promising, so I’ve been wondering how often it breaks or doesn’t work as well as another distro. Also good to know the connect stuff can be added just by installing KDE. And Dolphin probably a better file manager.
What’s your preferred file manager, if you don’t mind?
Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with the compatability as well. But luckily it hasn't effected me too much on mint. So far only two programs I use haven't been compatible, and even then they aren't programs I use often.
Nemo, which is the default for mint.
Also another reason I switched to mint now that i remember, I wanted to switch to a non-Ubuntu system. The whole point of switching to Linux is to get away from all the corpos getting their hands on your system/data. Unfortunately I only learned how shitty canonical is about it after I unstalled zorin.
So I currently have mint debian edition installed.
Oh that’s great, you’re exactly the one I need to talk to then, because I’ve been debating why even go with an Ubuntu-based distro at all when it’s based on Debian, and whether or not the Debian version would be a better choice. I’ve been running multiple VMs trying to work out the differences.
Before I found Debian Mint, I wrote a script for base Debian 12.2 to auto-install wine, steam, and everything else I could think of based on what’s in Linux Mint and Garuda… then discovered Debian Mint and have been wondering if that’s my best choice, because I have no idea what I could be missing in the background on my Debian install, or didn’t set up correctly because I don’t know about it.
I also noticed that Debian Mint currently uses a newer kernel than Ubuntu Mint… 6.1.0-13 vs 5.15.0. For a newer kernel than that you have to go with the Ubuntu Mint EDGE version (6.2.0) or Arch (6.1.57-lts or 6.5.7-zen).
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Has there been any particular thing you had to do to Debian Mint to make it work better for you?
I will say right off the bat, it sounds like you know a bit more about me, so whatever you decide will probably already be a pretty informed choice.
With that said, having used ubuntu occasionally in the past, it doesn't feel all that different from Debian. They are roughly equally functional, performant, etc.
I probably should do something similar, because down the line who knows, I might need a full re-install.
Very anecdotally, like I said there has only been two programs that I haven't been able to get running that I really want. That's fusion360 and dungeon draft. Both of which I could pretty easily get running in a VM.
Actually now that I think about it, there is a 3d program, and that's fortnite. But that's because their management doesn't give a flying fuck about linux, and so their anti-cheat breaks the game. So no distro will be safe from that.
Again, it sounds like you are much more informed about it than me. But personally, it hasn't made a difference for me. I can run my games, the basic internet browsing apps that I like, etc.
The most complex thing that needed set up was getting my drives auto mounted on startup. But debian mint has a pretty straightforward way of setting it up, so it took maybe 5 seconds.
Beyond that, it's just been a small bit of effort setting up the programs I use. Steam, freetube, the prism minecraft launcher, my nvidia drivers, cura, KDE connect, gitkracken, vscode, vlc, etc. It is really low effort honestly, basically the same effort as windows. The software manager/library on debian has been pretty decent to me.
linuxjourney.com is a good resource
I’ve already been playing with Nobara and Linux Mint.
Hard agree. I got a friend trying to get me on linux, and I've just been on windows since my first pc.
But fuck it. I'll maintain 10 until eol and then whatever Linux supports will be the games I play on steam.
if you don't use linux, why are you here?, not gate keeçing, but it's linux memes, i didn't know other people could find it funny
I use Linux for work and on some virtual machines personally to mess around sometimes so I know my way around it
To be clear, it may be a linux meme, but it’s a post about a possible future with Windows, that may lead some to switch to linux. Windows users being in here, commenting and asking questions, isn’t weird.
or just crack windows (is faster than setupping everything in linux)
Setting up a functional Linux environment can be accomplished within a comparable timeframe to that required for a Windows installation. When opting for user-friendly distributions such as Linux Mint or Ubuntu, the installation process becomes equally accessible for users, presenting no significant challenges when compared to Windows, so while you are entitled to hold this opinion, its factually incorrect.
omg linux fanboy when a joke is made (he can't handle a joke on his only reason to live)
This was based on a report that was debunked almost immediately, y’all gotta stop reposting this every day.
Nooo but it confirms my viewpoint :-(
Oh that sweet, sweet confirmation bias hit. Nothing like it!
Good luck, the vegans of the transistor realm have decided that complaining about fake news regarding windows is the best topic to just never shut the fuck up about.
I love paying for spyware!!!
Everyone here thinking it’s the beginning of the great migration :tm:
Sorry guys, people are just going to use cracked versions of windows to play games
I suspect most people that only use their Windows computer for general stuff like web browsing, e-mail, multi media, office etc., which is probably the majority by far, will actually fall for the subscription scam.
Yea sadly most people already do via an M365 subscription, if MS decides to tack an OS in with that, doubt many would care enough to make a swap.
I subscribe to M365 because my kids’ schools all distribute their assignments as Word docs. And they apparently use the most obscure formatting features, so the only way to get them to render and print properly is to use full Office desktop. Not even the web apps show them properly, and LibreOffice / google docs import totally mangle them.
Could you ask ChatGPT yet to reformat it for LibreOffice?
Well here at least the school offered an MS Office license to students few years ago, but still, have to pay for the OS...
This is the moment where Hannah Montana Linux will shine
If you’re not running Ubuntu Satanic Edition are you really a devout follower of the dark Lord
uwuntu better
Hell of a targeted ad
A chance for Faramir, Captain of FOSS, to show his quality.
Guess that's the day I move over to Linux full time? Just installed mint on one of my work machines to play around on anyways....
The best time to start is now. The second best time to start is now.
Welcome!
Fuck, I missed the two best times to start
We'll pretend you didn't if you get started.
Kudos to Microsoft on keeping to inpirationally show us with every edition it can still get even worse... 😅
Nah, just PC Mag fearmongering again
It's not going to happen for normal users. This is most likely for users that already use some ms subscription, like office.
Exactly, it's going to be Office 365+Windows in a single package kinda deal.
Probably with a mostly functioning Windows left if you stop paying, but no access to specific features or Office.
It's just a way to get people to pay a few bucks a month extra for the Office 365 package, which in the long term culminates to getting full bank plus then some for Windows, instead of a one time flat fee people will then use for as long as they keep the system.
Most people I know use the same system/laptop for 3-4 years, some even as long as 6-8 years if the thing doesn't break down.
The subscription will likely be setup so that you pay what you'd normally pay for a basic Windows Home (100-130ish) within the first 2 years (say $5 a month) and every year you use the same device longer than that, is just extra gravy for Microsoft.
But I doubt they'll drop the simple license. There are to many devices where a subscription wouldn't work and especially in this day and age, connecting the device to the Internet for any length of time is a big nono for the user/company.
John Riccitelo sees your "they couldn't possibly be this self-destructive" and raises you a golden parachute.
To be clear, all the not-so-bad alternatives in this thread are still dealbreakers for me. I do pay for one Office sub, because I need it for work, but I have Windows installs in maybe half a dozen devices and I am NOT paying subscriptions for all of those.
The real silver lining is that if they do attempt it, and they might, it wouldn't be the first time a Windows version bombs so bad in favor of its predecessor that they have to roll things back immediately, so we have a pretty clear picture of what that would look like.
The question is, would they care? End user business is a rather small position on their balance sheet I'd guess, it's rather big support contracts and Azure. Let the individual users complain for a while, they've eaten all the shit over the years anyways, they'll swallow another turd. My current employer justified switching from a Linux based system to Windows which took huge efforts with huge amounts of copium ("they've given in and understood our demands!") yet I bet more issues will arrive when Windows 10 support expires.
Businesses won't switch anyways, they never did in huge numbers, and private users are good at complaining and sometimes even holding out on old versions but once storage gets encrypted by ransomware that got in through unpatched security flaws in their no longer supported version of Windows, they'll pay up anyways.
But I guess MS just says this idea out loud now so that people can get enraged and then they'll do something less shitty and everyone will be like "we won! There's no subscription!"
They cared the last few times, hence my good news comment.
MS's revenue may be whatever it is, but Windows is definitely the crown jewel. There is no way MS would live through it cratering in home use. Not in this weather.
It’s none of the above. Turns out all the references to a subscription in the test builds were to Windows Internet of Things Enterprise subscription edition. Most enterprise things are ran on a subscription type license where you pay for support and rights to use it on an annual basis.
Or they might lock additional things behind the subscription, like PowerShell, or Windows Defender.
It's for Windows 365
So like a mafia stategy. “[not really] Nice OS, be a shame if something happened to it. Maybe you should consider our protection plan”?
The enshittening continues. Why charge people once when you can charge them repeatedly until they decide enough is enough and leave?
Enshittification referred to products and services that were previously good
Hey now, Windows XP was pretty decent!
By the standards of its day, I'd even say Windows XP was good.
It was if you pretend anything before service pack 1 didn't happen, I saw so many infected machines back then it wasn't even funny. And I guess the more professional users saw it as a downgrade from Windows 2000.
And their stock price has never been the same since you abandoned them!
Things dont have to be good to get worse.
My suspicion is that home installations will still be available at retail or OEM channels.
The subscription likely applies more to enterprise and possibly Windows 365. Enterprise licensing is a mess which might actually be simplified by a subscription pay-what-you-actually-use model.
Also it’s be cool to see windows 365 come to consumers as an alternative to a full PC. Would be able to standardize on home thin-client builds, or possibly add it as a feature to the Xbox Platform.
Maybe all business versions, or subscriptions if joined to a domain
I’m just imagining a not-so-distant future where there’s $200 set-top boxes that can hook up to any HDMI port and have a current-gen cloud console and a nearly fully functional PC. Or cloud laptops that have W365 bundled in as part of a 5G service.
This is really just going to make Apple more sales and cripple the PC gaming market.
Then, Apple will do it and… maybe that will be the year of Linux desktop? 😉
Linux Gaming is now a truly viable force thanks to Steam (Proton). The PC Gaming market will be fine without Windows.
Except it's still hell for online games with anti-cheat. Just about every other month, another article comes out about "Linux players unable to launch..." or "Linux players banned from..."
Edit: "They hated him because he spoke the truth."
Valve is actively funding alternatives to those anti cheats and also working with them to get Linux supported. Its just not happening overnight.
Both easy anticheat and battle eye have support for Linux native and proton, it's just down to the developers of games to enable it
Without windows more developers would likely enable support
Idk, I see this argument every time this discussion comes up but I've yet to experience anti cheat issues. I don't think they don't exist but it's been extremely smooth sailing for me
Idk, but I know the last time I saw it happen was just under two months ago, with Apex Legends. IIRC, they never reversed those, either.
Apple is by far the worst offender of expensive shit products. It's not going to make apple gain shit...the barrier to entry for an apple computer is just fucking stupid for what you get...nothing that good.
My MacBook air was like 1700, it’s faster than most pcs of that price.
That's a nice argument... (Piped)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
That's a nice argument...
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Manifesting this outcome right now
I’m looking forward to see more Linux adoption because of this 😃
OP is spreading misinformation. Ban his ass.
Was already looking to jump ship at the file explorers having ads as a "test" but boy howdy, do it Microsoft. This would push me to make the Linux switch outright.
Why wait for Microsoft when you can just...
Still just a bit worried about everything I use not being compatible. Windows is the normie choice so chances are if it exists there's a Windows version but with Linux I'd start from scratch.
Tell you what, when I replace my motherboard in a couple weeks, I'll slot this M.2 I've got and put a Linux partition on it. Any recommendations on what 'version' to start with for a heavy gamer? The different names of Linux 'versions' are kernels, right?
Not really, the kernel is basically the only thing all distros share in common. The different Linux "distros" (as in distributions) are called that precisely because they have different ways of distributing the software they use to build the OS. They use different means to achieve the same goal.
I am biased towards Fedora since I am a contributor of the project, but you can't go wrong with Ubuntu either. It's more popular so there's a lot more content about it online if you need help.
The only thing I recommend against is using small, niche distros or DIY distros (like Arch) as your first. Stick with big distros with big communities and don't be afraid to ask questions in the forums if there's any doubts or if you face any issues.
It sounds daunting in the beginning, but it's way easier than the internet make it seem.
Ah okay, thank you for clearing the terminology up a bit. So the distros are what have different names and have unique contributions from different people, the kernel is just the common 'core' they expand off? I think I got it.
I hear a lot of people mention Arch to the point it's a meme but I'll take your advice and steer clear. Ubuntu is the one I'm probably most familiar with on a name basis to the point I thought it and 'Linux' meant the same thing. I might start with Ubuntu only for the sake of documentation and once I get a familiar idea of how to do basic commands and troubleshooting, I'll give your Fedora a shot.
The only thing that's kept me from the switch is compatibility concerns. Lots and lots of people harp on about that and until Steam Deck I wasn't even sure I'd be able to game with it. I'm ready to break my Microsoft chains though.
Oh, don't worry, unless you are really into competitive multiplayer games with anti-cheat software, you'll likely have a great experience gaming on Linux! Just don't forget to tick the Proton compatibility layer option on Steam's settings (if they haven't yet made that the default, I'm not sure nowadays).
In any case, if you're wary if a certain game you want to play is playable or not, just check on ProtonDB.
I run everything but work and a gaming rig on some flavor of Linux.
In the past, I ran all Linux except work, so even gaming.
I just missed the ease of use of third party tools, mostly for modding sjbgke player games.
Maybe vortex works and I just don't understand his to use it on Linux, buy I've also run into third party tools for other games (again, single player - not trying to cheat necessarily, though some questionable QoL mods end up creeping in after a few play through) and I'm not sure how to get them to run.
I've always had trouble with wine, never set up lutris, but proton was a boon for gamers everywhere, Linux or otherwise.
Anyone have a primer for a power user (sysadmin type duties on my own server, have been using Kali as an educational tool since back track) that's pegged at gamers making the switch to Linux? I've mostly just figured it out looking to random guides and stack overflow, lol.
Wait. A few years ago, Windows decided they couldn't keep up with warez, so they allowed unactivated Windows for the first time. Now, they are going back to paid model, just to let the piracy shine up again!
In addition, this means, that if I bought a computer with Windows pre-installed, I couldn't operate it? This will render OEM Windows installation useless. So.. year of the Linux Desktop?
Theyre gonna follow the Adobe model and use online DRM to make it impossible to pirate. You can't pirate software if core functionality depends on online services.
If you think you can't pirate Adobe I've got news for you
I've successfully banished all Microsoft trash from my home network but I also work at an MSP all day while having "God damn it Microsoft" tourette syndrome 8 hours a day so I think I might become an evil villain if/when that goes live.
My favorite quote from one of my coworkers this week: "Why did I expect that copying text from one Microsoft service to another would work?"
They made the fatal error of expecting that anything Microsoft makes would work as intended.
Link if anyone's interested.
Microsoft is so far from where they started and yet still the same dumbasses that they always were
It’s a bold move now that gaming is viable for linux. Please proceed Microsoft
A screenshot of something that was posted 12 days ago?
I've held off until now (I haven't), but now I'm going to call it (for the 1000th time):
This will be the year of the Linux desktop.
Unfortunately, unless Microsoft fucks up BIG time and makes Windows simply unusable, people will continue to use it. I think the year of the Linux desktop will come by the time GTA VII gets released, once we all here are six feet under.
I agree that some distro desktop are good. Others are a pain in the ass in orders of magnitude never seen before.
But it will be hard to make Linux the default when many programs are made to target windows only and most people are already used to Window's fuckery.
Windows_12_cracked_Sub_2027.7zip
3489 seeders / 783 leechers
Remember when Windows 10 was meant to be the last edition of Windows ...
It never was. That quote was an offhand comment by a developer evangelist that everyone ran with as the official word from Microsoft
It still is, they just changed the number on a random patch when they cut the actually useful option to put the taskbar on the side of the screen.
I'm glad to see somebody else as salty as I am over them removing that feature for Windows 11, as that immediately killed any enthusiasm I had towards it.
I rock an ultrawide monitor. You know how many needless pixels a bottom task bar takes up on that thing? If I wanted to stick duck tape on a third of my screen I would do that.
So I went and paid for StartAllBack immediately. Because screw that.
Exactly. Even on regular width monitor, you still have so much more horizontal space to spare than vertical, so putting it on the side just makes sense!
How Microsoft don't see that, at least anymore, is astounding to me
It still is. Windows 10 and 11 are built on the same version of Windows NT with different patches.
Windows 11 current release - NT version 10.0.22621.2428
Windows 10 current release - NT version 10.0.19045.3570
Both are Windows NT 10.0.
yes yes win 12 ...if you do not pay and its not foss....maybe you are the product
Fuck Microsoft. Is there any decent music recording/editing/DAW type software for Linux?
There are a lot of pro audio tools available on Linux. I myself use some of the more basic tools, such as the universal plugin host Carla to host LV2/3, VST and LADSPA based audio plugins. And a basic lightweight MIDI mixing sftware called
jack_mixer, combine that with a patchbay likeqpwgraph, and virtual audio channels set up throughpactland I have a custom, lightweight but infinitely expandable plugin chain and mixer set up I can use for video recording and streaming.But software ranges from that all the way to full featured integrated DAW setups and everything in between.
I've been considering making the move to Linux for a few months now. If this comes to pass that will more than likely be the final nail in the coffin. Based on what I've seen, Linux has become a lot more user friendly since I messed with it when I had it on a mini laptop back in the day.
So I bought a Steamdeck, and while that is not my first experience with Linux.
It has opened my eyes to how easily it can replace my windows system for personal use.
Couldn't be happier, even with how locked down steamOS is, it lets me do anything I need.
Guess its time to learn freecad. I cant stand this sub model.
I will never buy subscription software intended to run on my hardware.
If it runs on my machine, and any non-local services are not key to the core product functionality. I'm buying a perpetual license or you're not getting a penny.
Wait, how do the keywords they mentioned indicate anything about a subscription?
what a shitshow!
Even if w!ndøws did start charging a subscription for their OS, you would not see a single change in the states in places like schools , libraries, or anywhere else with nearly public computer access.
W!ndøws has so much of a foothold on the PC market and everybody from your ancient 90 year old grandma to your 90 day old already know how it works and how to use it. The average person would absolutely protest and complain if there was a switch to Linux (or BSD or anything similar) since they might actually have to learn more than just the basics of how to use a computer.
Gotta remember in the workforce - the youngest people in our workforce used an iPad or an android phone before they touched Windows. Those minds are gonna be way more open to alternatives.
I love that people downvoted you... they clearly don't have kids. My kids know Android... because of tablets and my wife's phone... they've spent little to no time in from of an actual computer and the laptops in schools are chromebooks. I'd like someone to point out where windows is in any of this.
In India and South Africa, Linux has been facing a huge increase in usage since last year. It shows that windows isn't invulnerable like that.
Public schools are primarily using Chrome books at this point... so your premise from the get go is already broken.
Yeah, I haven't been in public school for over a half decade, for one, and two, all computers at my school were windows. My knowledge on public schools is outdated.
But I guess you're right.