Induction can have the crown as soon as appliance designers stop giving them infuriating capacitive touch controls that are a fundamentally bad input method for a fucking stove.
Give them knobs. The UI nerd in me is so angry at the slow death of competent design as its cannibalized by marketing and branding people, and the penny pinchers they serve.
The problem is not with the controls fundamentally, it's with the low quality controls. A glass touch surface has merit: it's extremely easy to clean and keep clean, you're never gonna get boiling pasta juice in there and corrode the contacts or whatever. It's just that the manufacturers use the worst, most pathetic sensors that stop working as soon as the surface gets slightly moist. My own induction stovetop is pretty bad in that regard, but my parents' significantly more expensive one is perfectly fine. The control part of the glass surface never gets very hot either.
Point is, it's pretty good when done right. But they often don't do it right.
The highest quality touchscreen on earth that works perfectly not matter what is on my hands and never makes a mistake would still be shittier than a simple fucking knob.
Knobs belong on the front of the stove, under the ledge of the range/counter where you can't spill anything on anyway.
Induction already wins cleanliness by a mile through not burning in whatever lands on the cooktop. No need to make knobs worse to make them easier to clean, when they don't get dirty in the first place.
You mean in the space where I have a drawer full of cooking utensils and herbs? Because my induction top is only as high as my countertop. I much rather have the touch buttons than lose that space.
I will say I specifically bought an AEG because it has a slider. I can set it to 1 from 10 with one button press.
There's nothing worse than having to press the minus-button 10 times when your pot is cooking over.
As long as the knobs aren't behind the burners I'm happy. Every time I have to reach behind a boiling pot to turn it to simmer I just hear "bad design" in the voice of the audio book narrator for The Design of Everyday Things
I agree with induction where it can sense whether there is a pan but always thought the opposite with gas. Why do those burner knobs need to be reachable by toddlers?
Keep the knobs in a child safe drawer when not in use until the kids are old enough to know better. Reaching through steam is a burn risk as is reaching over hot oil.
Just discovered one place my induction burner is worse for cleanness. Since it’s a glass top there’s no place for boilers to go, except down the side of the range.
Compared to my previous gas stove that had sealed burners that were recessed to catch boilovers
But I never want to try and find the right place to touch a flat surface when I’m in the middle of basting meat and my pot is boiling over.
Analog style dials (they’re digital now) are easy to reach without looking, which keeps your focus on the task. Muscle memory is super important for flow.
Do your parents have cats? Ours have turned the stove on during the night by walking across it. Now we have to “lock” the controls every night, and then “hold for 3 seconds” before we can unlock. The more sensitive the controls, the worse this all gets.
Ours have turned the stove on during the night by walking across it
But aren't induction stovetops only heating when a compatible metal is on top/detected? So if you don't leave pans and pots on it shouldn't the stovetop be powered off, even if the cat turns on the switch?
Besides that, there must be better options, even if companies refuse going back to knobs.
Yes but it’s very possibly easier to just lock the buttons than it is to wash all the pots before bed and make sure no one leaves so much as a spoon on the cooktop before bed. Either way its an extra thing to remember and deal with and since there’s really no major advantages to capacitive, it’s a simple decision for me. Knobs.
I’ve seen really rough “analogue” and hybrid control designs. Like, an oven with knobs and touch buttons, so you can set temperature more easily with a knob, but some more specific settings are set through touch input. Overall idea sounds good, until you try do something with it - then it quickly becomes a convoluted mess, because rather than separately choosing which directions to heat or whether to turn on the fan, manufacturers decided to make a list of all possible combinations to scroll through. 🌝
Knobs are definitely better for a stove. Even the best capacitive touch sensor won't work if you've got an oven mitt on, or you need to make a quick adjustment without taking your eyes off the food
Easy to wipe true, but what if instead of a capacitor button we can have a magnetic control board with magnetic push keys?
It would be fully removable, attachment magnet snaps it into place and then it's essentially a button with a magnet physically travelling up and down.
The I really hate the capacitor buttons since if you get pasta that boils over it fucks with the buttons pretty fast and the "off button" is just not good for quickly turning it off when flooded. It's same for pan cooking sauce that splashes a bit, wiping the surface moist rag can have mixed results, paper towels become a requirement. There's just a lot to not like.
A standard knob, as long as it's not designed by an idiot, can be very simple by having a piece of heat resistant non corrosive material stuck out of the stove top and the button having a 1cm gap under it. Just make the pin chonky and you can drop a pan on it without anything happening. Lift the button off and it becomes still very easy to clean.
Fair enough, they actually didn't have the size I wanted (60 cm) so I looked at the price for 80 cm. And the price diff was more like 15x.
But that was also some official place with a physical store selling it. Dropshipping marketplace here has the 60 cm too, with only a 4.5x price difference compared to IKEA, 5.5x if you don't get their stupid subscription service. And to be fair, that was the cheapest possible IKEA 60 cm induction stovetop, so the real difference between an actually good model would be only ~2-3x.
But at least 840€ with a stupid subscription to cancel later I can handle. The other place was only selling Neff at something over 3k.
Rented a place with the capacitive touch style and my cat kept turning on the stove… luckily with it being induction it meant it didn’t get hot as long as a pan wasn’t on there but holy shit could that be really dangerous
Seriously though, I'm with you. I have an induction, and it's fantastic, but any stupid moisture gets on it, and the controls don't work until you wipe it off, and the things spazzes out at you, beeping incessantly.
so my mother's kitchen, it looks like she has two ovens stacked vertically (the range is off to the side). top one is a microwave tho. my mother likes to microwave her eggs for some reason. probably just to disgust me. but like i warned her as prophecy foretold one day she spilled an egg down the front of her microwave and down into the oven controls.
she was smart enough to cut the power immediately (her side of the family was farmers, my dad's side miners, so we're used to fixing everything ourselves. we just had to clean out the pcb and had no permanent shorting) but i feel your pain.
she still microwaves her eggs. like fuck how hard is it to grab the big kettle and the spider skimmer
I get the microwaving eggs thing. It's an inferior culinary experience, but it's easier. I microwave things whenever possible because I have difficulty standing up for any significant period of time; even if the time taken is identical, microwaving something usually means pressing a few buttons before sitting down and waiting, whereas cooking something on the range usually involves tending, meaning I have to stay there.
i get that. sometimes i feel like a bicycle. i'm fine laying down or leaning on shit, but if you want me upright you need to give me space to keep moving (so i don't tip over).
I realize this is probably hilariously unrealistic but. I prescribe a kitchen remodel. They have all kinds of designs for folks in wheelchairs that you could use with just a regular chair
There are induction stove tops with normal knobs, thankfully. Neff also makes ones with a magnetic puck, which I also find very intuitive and easy to use.
Electric coils suck. They never make even contact with the pan, creating hot and cold spots.
Electric radiant is better. But it's limited by lower burner output.
Gas solves both problems, but creates an additional problem that it measurably reduces indoor air quality with combustion byproducts.
The simple easy solution to that SHOULD be require a vent hood, and wire it so the fan automatically turns on low when the burners are lit. But that seems to require more brain power than the construction industry (or regulators) possess.
Induction solves all problems. No combustion byproducts, even heat distribution, high output.
There's also a company called Impulse that makes an induction cooktop with a 3 kWh battery inside- crank that guy up to 11 and it'll dump 10 kilowatts into one burner so you can boil a pot of water in under a minute. Put in contrast, most gas and electric burners put out 2-4 kW. Obviously with only 3kWh it can't sustain that output continually and once the battery is dead you're left with whatever your electric circuit is good for, but that's still plenty to get a pot boiling.
I have gas now. If I ever redo my kitchen I'm getting induction.
I mean you really should wipe your stovetop off any time it gets greasy, that way it doesn't build up so you don't have a mess to deal with later. Even on an old one with knobs I'd advise that.
Some of the Gorenje Infinity series, don't remember the model as I bought it second-hand. Here's a very similar-looking one, Gorenje Infinity EC6INB, except mine has knobs facing front, not right:
Looks sick, works flawless, got in good condition for $50. Can't complain.
Yep, still up. The unit is separate and doesn't have the oven included, so it doesn't have space for knobs that would point out.
But generally, they don't interfere with anything, if only sometimes when I use a large skillet on front left burner with low settings, but I can just move the skillet a little and it works anyways, so, no big deal.
It's like EVs. A great paradigm shift in the underlying base technology, accompanied by puzzling interface and control designs that really detract from the enjoyability of the transition.
Fast heating, wipe clean, works off clean electricity, roasts me less in the summer, doesn't care about the air coming from a window, starts the first time every time, what more could I ask for? I got this cheap plug in one and it dropkicks my installed gas stove in basically every metric.
Some induction stoves do have real knobs. Smeg makes one that I have not used so I can't say anything about the quality, but I'm just happy that they exist.
It's an acronym for Smalterie Metallurgiche Emiliane Guastalla ("Emilian Guastalla Metallurgical Enamelling Works" in Italian). They're actually a pretty high end brand, but yes, the name is amusing
For some reasom i was reading this as French even though i am Italian myself and I don't know much French beside the almost forgotten middle school knowledge
Temperature control seems to have so much delay that it seesaws wildly and isn't actually useful in practice. I couldn't get mine to boil eggs without it stopping the boil constantly, unless I set it to 160°+ IIRC.
I've never noticed a duty cycle with my induction, only conventional cooktops. Is that a problem with particularl makes, models, or price points?
My induction just sets the power output to the level I choose and holds it there. It doesn't hold a temperature, just a power output, so I do have to watch it because setting it to medium will be very different on a hot pan vs a cold pan.
We have one at work that does this. Super annoying. If you put it at 5/10 it's full blast 3 seconds and then off 3 seconds. It's probably prevalent on cheap models.
I've had trouble finding the right setting (particularly with rice in my case) because it does adjust the power output very rapidly and you don't have the temperature interia of a big ceramic pad in addition to your pan. Using cast iron on induction eliminates this problem. But I have a better way for eggs.
Steam your eggs in a steamer basket. Then you don't have to worry about the water coming back to a boil after adding the eggs and the eggs don't bounce around inside the pot.
Fill a pot to just under the level of the basket.
Bring to a boil.
Add as many eggs as you want or will fit. One egg? Six eggs? Doesn't matter steps are the same.
Steam for about 7-10minutes depending on how you like your yolk. 7 minutes = gooey ramen soft boiled. 10 = fully cooked hard boiled.
Remove eggs and shock in an ice bath to stop the eggs from continuing to cook from holdover heat. This also helps the peeling.
If you want them peeled right away, give them some time to chill fully. Crack the shells throughly, lots of tiny cracks all over, no big in cracked sections. It helps to roll them around on a hard flat surface gently after getting some cracks going. Peel under cold running water, using the force of the water to get under the skin between the egg white and the hard shell.
In my life I don’t think I’ve seen a power outage longer than a couple hours, and that was maybe once? I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen one. Maybe experienced 10-15 in my whole life, with most lasting minutes.
Am I just really lucky in my area? Or is this the experience most people have?
Where in the hell do you live to see a power outage? I live in the EU and the longest power outage was for three hours when I was a child. That was the only one in my life.
In the US, objectively the greatest country in the world (/s), you can expect a major power outage every other year, and it will be blamed on the very people who fucking called it.
yes. i can agree, why plan for the 1% when the 99% would be more impactful. just really responding to the “what more could you want” to mention some benefits that other options have.
The main downside is that your pots and pans need to be compatible. In particular we have a few nice small pans, like actually small, and they work exclusively on the front left burner, and need to be a bit off center. I imagine there's something wrong with the stove or the pans, but it's a class of issues you don't have with resistive or gas stoves.
There are flat induction adapters for this very purpose, look 'em up, they're cheap. They heat from induction and then transfer the heat to anything that doesn't support induction itself, or is too small to work on a given burner.
While it obviously defeats the efficiency gains of induction, it's otherwise workable and can help you with everything that can't be put straight on the stove.
Basically anything you can buy now is compatible..of course that means your grandma's pots downt work any more but all my stuff is now nearly 30 years old and works with induction.
I know it's not everything, because recently a relative bought a pan without checking and only realized when it was on the stove and refused to work :P
It's not a big deal, but not something I'd ignore, since it's a real downside specific to induction.
Yes. But the issue was declining then shit quality of GE induction.
My conventional is rocking it. I miss my original induction, but they just don't make em like they used to. When (if) I find the money, I'll take one more gamble on induction and try a miele.
Dang, that sucks. I'm still daily using an electric stove from the 1950's lol. I would love it if modern "environmentally friendly" appliances could last this long
oh, my shitty hot plate is one of those coils. it's really shitty.
its problem is that it only has two settings, on and off, and it reaches the desired temperature by cycling between those. and full blast hot boils the water too fast.
Aluminum is more conductive than steel so eddy currents flow more easily in aluminum. Some pans have an aluminum disc inside, for induction stovetops. Maybe it’s too much aluminum vs just a disc? His hot plate might be too low power or not induction just a glass top
This is wrong. Induction requires magnetism, not conductivity. A pure aluminum pan will not get hot on an induction hob. Some aluminum pans have an iron or steel plate inserted in their base to allow them to work on induction.
No, I am saying the pan has to be magnetic, which is what I have said 3 times now. You are completely wrong about how induction cooking works.
Heat from eddy currents is a small fraction of what magnetic hysteresis can produce. You can technically heat any good conductor with eddy currents alone if it is non-magnetic, but the equipment needed is significantly more complex and power hungry than induction cooking hobs.
Because we're working with AC, we need a small skin effect, which is given by the inverse square root of [pifrequencypermeability*conductivity]. It's permeability that's going to be the deciding factor here, because all metals have reasonably similar conductivity but ferromagnetic materials have four orders of magnitude higher permeability.
This also means that steel which is not ferromagnetic will not work on an induction stovetop. The stove will detect it and the chip will reject the pan to prevent damage to the coils.
Induction is the best cooktop tech for daily use, and that's a hill I'm willing to die on. I live in a rented place and cannot simply get rid of our gas range. However, it has a piece of kitchen counter placed on top of it and is only in use for its oven, which thankfully is electric. On top of the counter though? An induction hob.
Handheld lighters are fine for beginners or if you really need to be able to move your lighter, but if you look at any enthusiast or professional setup you're gonna see fixed / static lighters most of the time. Handheld lighters just don't have the stability or lighting capacity needed for more serious applications.
I love the idea. I hate the shitty unreliable overly digital implementation. Induction came around after everything was already well on the way to enshittification. Components are sized to last through warranty, not to last 20 or 30 years.
My gas stove, which has certainly many issues, hasn’t got a chip in it, and with occasional replacement of igniters will likely outlast me, unless we choose to replace it. This is a unique stove though, I will admit.
They are terrible if you don't use an exhaust system sized to your stove.
Cooking on induction unvented is also bad, less bad than cooking on unvented gas, but you're still putting things in the air that you're not supposed to breathe.
If you have an exhaust fan, turn it on no matter what you cook with. If you don't have an exhaust system, open a window.
No, gas stoves CONSTANTLY ooze dangerous gas. You cannot get a 100% sealed-whole-off burner on gas stoves. They just aren't made well enough (it would be crazy expensive).
In one study, 75% of the methane released from the stoves released while they were "off".
But yeah, there is this dumb trend in the EU to have filters that just filter the gas through a bit of (very quickly saturated and useless) carbon and spit it back out in the same room if you have an induction stove in order to seal the house better for EPC energy efficiency rating. It should be vented outside.
I have an air quality monitor in my living room, and it knows when the stove is on in the kitchen, even if I have the windows open. It's debatable how much of an effect it has on your health, but overall, we should stop burning fossil fuels wherever and whenever possible. Ditching my gas appliances in my house is high on my list of things to spend money on, even though it's probably going to be ~10K to get them all switched over.
I want to systematically test air quality when cooking with gas versus electric. Do you notice anything different in the air quality when you use a toaster or other electric appliance that heats food above 350°F/175°C?
I do not have a gas stove but I do have have multiple air quality sensors. Any amount of cooking causes particulates to increase from a base range of 2 to 200+ for 2.5 and 10 ppm.
I’m similar. Surprisingly quick jumps in particulates and voc in the family room when the stove in the kitchen was turned on.
I don’t notice it on small electric appliances (but never explicitly tested them), and no longer have a gas stove
I also have a hepa filter in the family room that would come on surprisingly quickly and made a significant difference …. When it was new. Unfortunately that has gotten bumped so many times that it is usually throwing an error
With gas stoves the issue is mainly NO2, however all cooking releases volatile chemicals which typically get worse depending on how oily the food is.
Really the problem is with ventilation moreso how or what you are cooking. Most non industrial range hoods are severely underpowered and installed incorrectly.
I have a relatively small range hood to which installed an industrial inline exhaust fan too. Even though it's small, the motor is strong enough to clear any smoke in the kitchen within a min.
My detector does not measure NOx, so I have no idea. But now that the gas stove is gone it’s no longer relevant
And yeah, definitely concerned about ventilation. I also have a pretty powerful inline exhaust fan, however there is no hood at all. The previous owners installed a pot rack in place of the hood and the kitchen is small enough that I can’t really change that. The exhaust fan is just a ceiling vent. I have no idea whether that balances out as positive (strong fan) or negative (no hood), but now that the gas stove is gone, that’s also a bit less important.
I don’t know if visual spatter/smoke, or smell are useful indicators but the induction stove has less of these. It only cooks what I intend
Make one the size of my 12" skillet so it doesn't create a neat little zone of heat surrounded by sticky cold pan, and I'm all yours. Haven't seen one yet.
I have a GE profile. That has the various sized burners. The odd part is the matching microwave got rid of many touch buttons and replaced it with a knob, which actually works well, but the stove has no knobs. Stove touch buttons work fairly well though, added bonus is you can lock the controls with a lock button. When looking my favorite choices came from ge profile and bosch.
Right, I did look at the dimensions. You can't fit a 30cm circle into a rectangle 23cm wide no matter how long it is though.
Cast iron heats up quite slowly, so any part not being heated means the pan is still going to be partially sticky, at least in my experience with induction.
Ultimately if I was in the position to be choosing my own hob, I'd probably just also buy a pan that fits the area. I'm not a gas burner advocate by any means.
Wait, N90... I missed that one when I was looking online. Looks like the centre circular one is 32cm, that's the actual size of my big skillet. Thanks!! If I ever do get to pick my own hob, I'd love to get one like that.
The Siemens one looks a lot like one I got to try at my rich friend's place one time, bit too expensive for me but I like how well the centre extractor fan works.
That’s one of my biggest objections - too many cheap ones with tiny coils. When I got mine, I ended up spending double what I planned, mostly so I could get useful sized coils
And this being the US where induction is rare and expensive , I had to get a double oven and and “smart” features in order to get larger coils
Omg yes. I'd been wanting to try one out for a long time. My friend got one. Stayed over and tried to make my specialty giant pancakes. Sorely disappointed with the useless results. Now I just bring my waffle iron instead.
i had one (a couple decades ago) that the large burner had two zones: both the ring and the center of the ring could be activated independently. it's been a hot minute so i don't remember exactly how it worked.
Induction is fast, but actually cooking is a PITA because mine at least adjusts power output via PWMing the whole output with a very slow square wave: i.e. it alternates between full on and completely off. Yes that's also what thermostats do on electric stoves with resistive elements, but those have extra thermal mass and thermal lag that smoothes out the overall heat output.
My neighbor's daughter bought an induction stove for her best friend who happens to be a trans dwarf porn star. She goes by Munchkin Cock Jenny and let me tell you she can cook a hell of a good meal on that thing. She hosted us all for Thanksgiving breakfast last year and made Vienna sausages with coconut rice and strawberry rhubarb pie, all mixed together on the stovetop. None of it got hot because she just placed it all on the surface but at least she tried. She died of meningitis about 4 hours after we left which is unfortunate because whoever had to deal with her estate had to clean the stovetop.
I stopped using an induction burner after having some issues with it, but I think that may have just been user error. I only ever use burners for boiling water for tea these days, so maybe I should give it another try.
Which bits on, who can say. Perhaps none of it is on, perhaps resistive touch screen controls are a bad idea on the surface that might get wet. Who can say.
It's funny because while I didn't comment on the previous post about the superior burner location, I do happen to have an induction range that has the big coil in the front right. So I get to have a side in both conflicts!
Seriously though, induction is the undisputed winner. We've had this thing for years, and whatever price premium I paid to move up to a lower priced induction model was totally worth it.
That big "burner" plus my big nitrided carbon steel pan is my go-to now to start like 80% of things I cook on the stove. Not counting heating up water in the kettle daily, though. That uses the small burner behind the big one. Then there are two mediums on the left. Or maybe it's small, two large, and one XL.
I do love the induction stove at my gf's house, but the issue with induction is you basically have to throw out 75% of your cookware and go get the special heavy-bottomed pans and pots for the heating to be effective and even. Most everything I have that's decades old and salvaged from yard sales and the like does NOT work on induction like, at all.
Well if you have really old cookware that does not work on induction it's probably already time to replace it. Cast iron and quality stuff you would want to keep should work on induction.
Faster pre heat? Gas puts out more BTUs but Induction stoves are great because they heat the pans directly, where gas heats the air under the pan as well as the pan. Baking however, requires you to heat the air in the oven, so gas is faster and more efficient for baking than it is for heating a pan.
Just having a gas connection cost me £100/year until I had it disconnected. Absolutely not worth it. Also how much of that fuel is wasted in heat going around the pan?
They definitely make induction stoves that are just the countertop part. I have one on my boat. Theoretically you could put one of those over a "regular" gas oven, but the gas ovens almost always have a stove built in.
Yeah my old landlord provided that exact model, it's fine. Not that bad when you're used to landlord specials. Idk how they managed to do that unless they were like thawing stuff next to boiling water, both on the glass, or dropped cast iron from some height
Those red hot things are incandescing, like old light bulbs. Except with heating elements, they're designed to primarily give off heat when they incandesce, rather than prioritize light.
We have been on induction for 20yrs. Our grandparents on 15. We only broke 1 plate and not nearly as catastrophically. Was just a big crack along the entire thing.
Ceramic ones are the same except they have shittier heating. Also what kinda shit plate was that and what the hell did you drop on it? Ours cracked because someone dropped a huge ceramic baking dish on it and it was just a crack jot a fucking hole in it.
But why? I fucking hate burners. They are slow, send more heat into the room than the food, pain in the ass to clean and also release possible carcinogens into your air. The only advantage they have over induction is that they cannot crack. I seriously don't get what people see in them.
Fuck, I'll take resistive over gas. It takes some skill, but I'm used to it. I've only used gas in other people's homes and I just didn't like it nearly as much.
I will go induction whenever I have a choice though, it just by all measures sounds better
I'm pretty sure capacitors aren't used as heating elements in cooktops, it's just resistors and inductors that are options. A capacitive cooktop would be fucking weird in any of the ways I can picture it being done
This is the part where Lemmy's demographics leaves little room for others to speak without accused of an ecological terrorist.
Induction stoves aren't compatible with a lot of ethnic cuisines. Chinese and Mexican food require gas stoves for a lot of applications like woks and charring vegetables. Curved induction stoves are not widely and affordably available in the US, and landlords would never bother installing specialty stoves like this. Having to get a separate gas stove to put on already limited counter space and rendering regular stoves useless is frustrating. The oven broiler is nowhere as ergonomic and effective as a stove top broiler and it's back breaking having to duck and constantly check because you cannot see what you are charring. This is just two of many other ethnic cuisines that are impacted by this.
Please let people, especially female minorities who are disproportionately impacted by this, keep one of our last vestiges of cultural ties. If it comes to ecological impact, there are so many other aspects in life down to the very phone you are using and clothing on your back that can be improved upon.
Lemmy, for better or for worse, is a very tech-bro environment. I know that this makes matters like cooking seemingly trivial and gas stoves to be in excess. But for many of us, the meals we cook are the last things we hold on to after our languages and national identity fade away. Meals made without an open flame are simply not the same because many techniques cannot be done without it.
Many techniques can be replicated on an induction stove mainly because induction is way better at heating the pans than gas is. Unless you have a really strong industrial gas stove you are jot getting any benefits pf gas over induction anyway.
And this post is not erasing your culture/ cuisine so stop playing the victim and keep using whatever you want. I honestly don't care if you cook on a campfire inside your kitchen if that is what you prefer or the specific dish requires.
But the point stands that for most people and most applications in cooking induction just is the best.
Tell me you don't know how to cook ethnic cuisines without telling me. This is the kind of tech-bro arrogance that presumes everything is easy and therefore replaceable with technology.
Calling it 'playing the victim' is straightup gaslighting and ignorance at its peak. 'For most people' means for people who are either white, don't cook much, or both. It's a time old tale of instituting a policy that in practice primarily affects minorities and women, but then claiming that it's egalitarian because it targets neither on paper.
Induction cooktops are shitty in a lot of ways. If you end up needing to char on one, you can take an iron or steel grill top and put it directly on the induction eye and you’ll get the lines and color but not the smoke.
But we’re all just using a can of la costena chipotles in adobo anyway so no big loss.
Can't justify it. I run one burner on my gas stove for about seven minutes a day. That's it. It's paid for and gas is dirt cheap here. Seven minutes a day gas fume exposure is not what will end up killing me.
Sure, if you cook all day, reducing big pots of stock for hours at a time, etc., then it makes sense. But, it's not for everyone.
The issue with gas is not it's moneteray cost, but rather its ecological cost. It is and will remain unsustainable to burn fossil fuels for energy. Even if gas was free. So you're point about it being cheap might be a justification for your individual situation, but only if you disregard the impact it has on our shared ecological habitat.
You might not be paying a lot for it, but we will.
The thing is, gas cooking will be banned at some point and you won't be able to buy new ones. It is not a matter of "if" but "when". I don't know if that is going to be soon or not, probably depends where you live really. But given that is where it will go eventually, it sure would be nice if the induction options came down in price and there were options across the range of models available. Currently, most brands only offer induction at the top of their range and radiant electric at the lower end and it would be better all around if they were treated separately instead of tricking consumers into "it is just cheap electric vs expensive electric".
Really the dangers of NO2 and other VOC isnt really an issue as long as you have some form of ventilation. The real problem are small apartments with no range hoods or ability to crack a window. Even then, it's about the same as handing out within 50m of a major roadway for the same time period.
As long as you don't have kids it's a good option. Otherwise it can contribute to life long health issues.
Gas stoves can negatively impact children's health by contributing to asthma and respiratory issues, as studies suggest that around 12.7% of childhood asthma in the U.S. can be attributed to gas stove use. They emit pollutants like nitrogen dioxide, which can worsen asthma symptoms and lung function in children.
Gas stoves should be operated with active venting. US loves to pump out shitty epidemiology studies that are poorly controlled and are foregone conclusions.
Where you live with respect to air pollutants makes much more difference than a gas stove.
That's not really an induction top issue, but rather a general issue with "smart" appliances. Electric stove tops with touch have the same issue and my induction top with knobs works fine.
It's not a problem inherit to induction hobs. But oh god do I agree. On mine it's any little spill or pot out of place on any touch button will turn it off. I will demand physical knobs on my next stove top.
You won't be able to make any proper Asian stir fry on this shit. You need huge heat for a short period of time that only a gas stove can do. My parents in law have a gas stove that looks and works like a jet fighter afterburner, including the sound.
No induction here mate.
I am sorry but you are somewhat wrong. My induction stove can heat my steel wok to smoking hit in 5 seconds and glowing red in 20. Induction can deliver the energy much quicker and more efficient than gas.
You still need a good induction stove top with enough power though. In Europe that is easy with 400V outlets. In North America you usually need one with a built in capacitor to get a similar result.
Eh, yes and no. You are getting the areas that are in contact with the cooking surface red hot, which with a flat bottom wok is a really small area. Since most woks are made out of thin metal, you aren't getting much heat transfer to the majority of the pan like you would with gas.
Tbh the best option imo for stirfry is just to have an outdoor wok burner hooked up to a propane tank. Unless you have an industrial stove, you aren't getting the pan hot enough on gass either.
There are actually special wok induction plates. The are shaped like the wok and are much closer to the real heat distribution of a gas burner. Nevertheless I don't think that is necessary. My wok gets plenty hot where it matters and I make a killer fried rice.
I mean..... It is, especially depending on what and how much food you are cooking.
My wok gets plenty hot where it matters and I make a killer fried rice.
Making a "killer fried rice" isn't the end all be all of wok cooking. I have had plenty of white people make what they claim is great fried rice that is greasy dog shit because they can't get their woks hot enough.
As someone who grew up in Chinese restaurant kitchens..... I can assure you a flat bottomed wok on an induction stovetop is never going to be adequate for traditional Chinese cooking. If there is an induction plate shaped to fit a round bottom wok and you could rock the wok on without damaging it.....that would be a different story.
Until then I'm going to stick to using my outdoor burner, especially considering that the only electric utilities I have access to are already created with natural gas.
As someone who grew up in Chinese restaurant kitchens..... I can assure you a flat bottomed wok on an induction stovetop is never going to be adequate for traditional Chinese cooking.
Seconding this. I am but a humble gringo, and I do love an induction Cook top, but the insistence that everyone in earth can move 100% to induction in every instance only applies if you're only making European dishes where flat bottom pans are standard.
I do have induction in my kitchen, the most powerful plate is 2.7kW. IIRC I could get gas up to 11kW on one burner.
Maybe there's more powerful ones, the electrics are 3 phases of 220V with 16A - so theoretically I could push up to 10.5kW of electrical power into the stove.
It would need to communicate with the oven in that case, as the oven currently uses the 3 phase.
They make curved induction stovestops to rest your wok like a traditional wok burner, but a strong induction stovetop will be able to do the same, you just won't be able to set it down on anything lol.
Its not as common in consumer because gas is still very common in Asia, but there are several models available as well as full sized restaurant induction wok stoves that can fit proper big woks with ease and hit the very high heat needed for the first use seasoning stage.
The heat response time is slightly better than gas, you just lose out on the visual queue cue of your flame.
Well you need a really strong stir fry rated burner if you want that. 99% of people that have gas stoves do not have one that can do that. You ain't stir frying shit on this kind of gas stove believe me.
311 replies
Induction can have the crown as soon as appliance designers stop giving them infuriating capacitive touch controls that are a fundamentally bad input method for a fucking stove.
Give them knobs. The UI nerd in me is so angry at the slow death of competent design as its cannibalized by marketing and branding people, and the penny pinchers they serve.
The problem is not with the controls fundamentally, it's with the low quality controls. A glass touch surface has merit: it's extremely easy to clean and keep clean, you're never gonna get boiling pasta juice in there and corrode the contacts or whatever. It's just that the manufacturers use the worst, most pathetic sensors that stop working as soon as the surface gets slightly moist. My own induction stovetop is pretty bad in that regard, but my parents' significantly more expensive one is perfectly fine. The control part of the glass surface never gets very hot either.
Point is, it's pretty good when done right. But they often don't do it right.
The problem is give me a damned knob.
The highest quality touchscreen on earth that works perfectly not matter what is on my hands and never makes a mistake would still be shittier than a simple fucking knob.
Knobs belong on the front of the stove, under the ledge of the range/counter where you can't spill anything on anyway.
Induction already wins cleanliness by a mile through not burning in whatever lands on the cooktop. No need to make knobs worse to make them easier to clean, when they don't get dirty in the first place.
You mean in the space where I have a drawer full of cooking utensils and herbs? Because my induction top is only as high as my countertop. I much rather have the touch buttons than lose that space.
I will say I specifically bought an AEG because it has a slider. I can set it to 1 from 10 with one button press.
There's nothing worse than having to press the minus-button 10 times when your pot is cooking over.
As long as the knobs aren't behind the burners I'm happy. Every time I have to reach behind a boiling pot to turn it to simmer I just hear "bad design" in the voice of the audio book narrator for The Design of Everyday Things
I agree with induction where it can sense whether there is a pan but always thought the opposite with gas. Why do those burner knobs need to be reachable by toddlers?
The trick is to not have toddlers
How else are you gonna teach those lazy toddlers to cook? Smdh
Keep the knobs in a child safe drawer when not in use until the kids are old enough to know better. Reaching through steam is a burn risk as is reaching over hot oil.
But some of the new front knob designs get ruined by steam from the oven opening getting inside.
Why the hell that happens I do not know, but they moved the electronic parts there and steam ruins them.
Just discovered one place my induction burner is worse for cleanness. Since it’s a glass top there’s no place for boilers to go, except down the side of the range.
Compared to my previous gas stove that had sealed burners that were recessed to catch boilovers
But I never want to try and find the right place to touch a flat surface when I’m in the middle of basting meat and my pot is boiling over.
Analog style dials (they’re digital now) are easy to reach without looking, which keeps your focus on the task. Muscle memory is super important for flow.
It's an inductive stove, the pots heat up instead of the surface.
That doesn't prevent my pots from boiling over.
I tried this once at an Airbnb and it was really annoying to change temperature while cooking, which is one of the things indication is good for
Do your parents have cats? Ours have turned the stove on during the night by walking across it. Now we have to “lock” the controls every night, and then “hold for 3 seconds” before we can unlock. The more sensitive the controls, the worse this all gets.
Knobs, dude. If you will it it is no dream.
But aren't induction stovetops only heating when a compatible metal is on top/detected? So if you don't leave pans and pots on it shouldn't the stovetop be powered off, even if the cat turns on the switch? Besides that, there must be better options, even if companies refuse going back to knobs.
Yes but it’s very possibly easier to just lock the buttons than it is to wash all the pots before bed and make sure no one leaves so much as a spoon on the cooktop before bed. Either way its an extra thing to remember and deal with and since there’s really no major advantages to capacitive, it’s a simple decision for me. Knobs.
I’ve seen really rough “analogue” and hybrid control designs. Like, an oven with knobs and touch buttons, so you can set temperature more easily with a knob, but some more specific settings are set through touch input. Overall idea sounds good, until you try do something with it - then it quickly becomes a convoluted mess, because rather than separately choosing which directions to heat or whether to turn on the fan, manufacturers decided to make a list of all possible combinations to scroll through. 🌝
No, touch screens are always shit compared to knobs. You might have even worse touch screens but that's just like even worse!
One stray globule, and suddenly your stove is set to 700°
Another error and that's in Celsius 😁
Wouldn't that be fun, a button on the stove to convert the units.
"Honey did you touch the f/c button?"
"No why?"
me looking at burnt pan "oh no reason"
A bunch of new stoves have a pizza setting that’s in that range.
You have to be careful though, they’re not all actually insulated for that range, so the electronics actually cook and fail.
If you do buy one the self clean usually works better due to the higher heat range, but all the appliance sales reps said to never use it anyways.
Typically what happens is that the range detects liquid on the buttons, alerts, and stops accepting input until the liquid has been cleaned up.
Another problem that would never happen with knobs!
Knobs are definitely better for a stove. Even the best capacitive touch sensor won't work if you've got an oven mitt on, or you need to make a quick adjustment without taking your eyes off the food
Easy to wipe true, but what if instead of a capacitor button we can have a magnetic control board with magnetic push keys?
It would be fully removable, attachment magnet snaps it into place and then it's essentially a button with a magnet physically travelling up and down.
The I really hate the capacitor buttons since if you get pasta that boils over it fucks with the buttons pretty fast and the "off button" is just not good for quickly turning it off when flooded. It's same for pan cooking sauce that splashes a bit, wiping the surface moist rag can have mixed results, paper towels become a requirement. There's just a lot to not like.
A standard knob, as long as it's not designed by an idiot, can be very simple by having a piece of heat resistant non corrosive material stuck out of the stove top and the button having a 1cm gap under it. Just make the pin chonky and you can drop a pan on it without anything happening. Lift the button off and it becomes still very easy to clean.
Neff has that, they come with a magnetic disc you use to control everything. Only drawback is you can only control one thing at a time.
Glad somebody is onto it, now they just need to make the the rest of the buttons into a pad and I'll have my idealised version.
The other drawback is that I could buy 10 IKEA stovetops for the same price lol
Not really.. if you buy a same sized filed its maybe 30 percent.
Ikea just offers a lot of smaller ones too.
Fair enough, they actually didn't have the size I wanted (60 cm) so I looked at the price for 80 cm. And the price diff was more like 15x.
But that was also some official place with a physical store selling it. Dropshipping marketplace here has the 60 cm too, with only a 4.5x price difference compared to IKEA, 5.5x if you don't get their stupid subscription service. And to be fair, that was the cheapest possible IKEA 60 cm induction stovetop, so the real difference between an actually good model would be only ~2-3x.
But at least 840€ with a stupid subscription to cancel later I can handle. The other place was only selling Neff at something over 3k.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here but mine has an app for that
That's worse. Don't make me pull my phone out of my pocket to change stove temp. Absolutely embarrassing that this idea got to production.
does the good one have like a ridge or something so you have more tactile response than
?
Some newer stoves now put the control panel separate, and you can e.g. build it into the edge of the countertop.
My induction range has knobs! Even the oven setting is a knob.
Rented a place with the capacitive touch style and my cat kept turning on the stove… luckily with it being induction it meant it didn’t get hot as long as a pan wasn’t on there but holy shit could that be really dangerous
Yeah, I was going to comment, that the touch control defenders, definitely do not own cats.
Hoooolllllynshit you nailed the head right on the hammer!
I cannot stand the controls on my induction cooktop. Still fundamentally the right choice of tech but it is a PITA to actually use.
Mine has knobs. It’s fucking great. It’s a Bora professional 3.0
that's showing up as an extractor fan on my computer
It’s a modular system of a downdraft extractor and induction or gas hobs. Scroll down.
you mean actually read the link you shared us? that's just weird :P
Yeah that would be nice ngl
got your knob right here bb.
Seriously though, I'm with you. I have an induction, and it's fantastic, but any stupid moisture gets on it, and the controls don't work until you wipe it off, and the things spazzes out at you, beeping incessantly.
My wife once dropped a metal bottle cap on the capacitive controls for our oven.
I don't know anything about oven software, but so far as I could tell, it caused the entire thing to basically reboot.
so my mother's kitchen, it looks like she has two ovens stacked vertically (the range is off to the side). top one is a microwave tho. my mother likes to microwave her eggs for some reason. probably just to disgust me. but
like i warned heras prophecy foretold one day she spilled an egg down the front of her microwave and down into the oven controls.she was smart enough to cut the power immediately (her side of the family was farmers, my dad's side miners, so we're used to fixing everything ourselves. we just had to clean out the pcb and had no permanent shorting) but i feel your pain.
she still microwaves her eggs. like fuck how hard is it to grab the big kettle and the spider skimmer
I get the microwaving eggs thing. It's an inferior culinary experience, but it's easier. I microwave things whenever possible because I have difficulty standing up for any significant period of time; even if the time taken is identical, microwaving something usually means pressing a few buttons before sitting down and waiting, whereas cooking something on the range usually involves tending, meaning I have to stay there.
i get that. sometimes i feel like a bicycle. i'm fine laying down or leaning on shit, but if you want me upright you need to give me space to keep moving (so i don't tip over).
Heh, nice.
I realize this is probably hilariously unrealistic but. I prescribe a kitchen remodel. They have all kinds of designs for folks in wheelchairs that you could use with just a regular chair
I appreciate the recommendation, but I think I'll probably just stick with using the microwave!
🎵a good induction stove has a knob on one side🎵 just doesn't scan right tho
I hunted specifically for an induction stove with knobs, and couldn't be happier. It's how all induction stoves should be.
Btw, it's a secondhand Gorenje stove, and it only costed me $50. An absolute bargain.
Mine has knobs, that was one of my non-negotiables. The oven controls are touch, but I can live with that.
Same. My only objection is somehow the timer is not independent: you can only use it on the oven
There are induction stove tops with normal knobs, thankfully. Neff also makes ones with a magnetic puck, which I also find very intuitive and easy to use.
One of my friends just bought an obscenely expensive stove bc it was the only one they could find that was induction with knobs
Omg yes
I made the switch from gas to induction this year and had no issue finding models that had physical knobs.
My Samsung range has exactly that. And yeah, it's very nice.
Check out impulse labs. I think you're gonna like those knobs
They exist
But knobless means the shareholders get an extra 0.00001¤ per unit!
Won't someone think of the shareholders!
But didn't you know that all old design is bad design, and you're supposed to laugh at people with knobs on their stove?
Electric coils suck. They never make even contact with the pan, creating hot and cold spots.
Electric radiant is better. But it's limited by lower burner output.
Gas solves both problems, but creates an additional problem that it measurably reduces indoor air quality with combustion byproducts.
The simple easy solution to that SHOULD be require a vent hood, and wire it so the fan automatically turns on low when the burners are lit. But that seems to require more brain power than the construction industry (or regulators) possess.
Induction solves all problems. No combustion byproducts, even heat distribution, high output.
There's also a company called Impulse that makes an induction cooktop with a 3 kWh battery inside- crank that guy up to 11 and it'll dump 10 kilowatts into one burner so you can boil a pot of water in under a minute. Put in contrast, most gas and electric burners put out 2-4 kW. Obviously with only 3kWh it can't sustain that output continually and once the battery is dead you're left with whatever your electric circuit is good for, but that's still plenty to get a pot boiling.
I have gas now. If I ever redo my kitchen I'm getting induction.
Induction has just gone from "cool, but for the rich folks" to simply an undisputed king of stovetops.
Much like solar and other green technologies.
Induction rules but the touch controls that almost always come with them can fuck right off.
"We should put touch controls on things that are permanently greasy" -Kitchen appliance and gadget designers hired by Satan's evil twin.
I mean you really should wipe your stovetop off any time it gets greasy, that way it doesn't build up so you don't have a mess to deal with later. Even on an old one with knobs I'd advise that.
Absolutely. Luckily, there are induction hobs with knobs (I personally own one), and I hope we'll see more of them going forward.
I had to buy a used induction stove because they no longer sell new ones with physical knobs at a reasonable price.
Same. Somehow not having complex system of sensors and having a simple knob instead is a premium feature. I begin to see a pattern right there...
Cool! Can I ask which one you have?
Some of the Gorenje Infinity series, don't remember the model as I bought it second-hand. Here's a very similar-looking one, Gorenje Infinity EC6INB, except mine has knobs facing front, not right:
Looks sick, works flawless, got in good condition for $50. Can't complain.
Yeah, that looks awesome! I love the colors.
By front-facing, are the knobs still facing up from the face of the stovetop or do they point out like on a classic stove?
Yep, still up. The unit is separate and doesn't have the oven included, so it doesn't have space for knobs that would point out.
But generally, they don't interfere with anything, if only sometimes when I use a large skillet on front left burner with low settings, but I can just move the skillet a little and it works anyways, so, no big deal.
Here, this is how it looks IRL:
Thanks for the picture, appreciate it.
You can usually attach real knobs if you have the space (and permission)
Also all my pots and pans are....aluminum
Are they anodised?
Ok, I'll bite, what difference does anodizing make, and do you know what anodizing actually is.
Oxidises and creates a hard layer so the aluminium doesn't leach or react with acids.
Yes, they are modern aluminum, so no dangers. They just don't work on induction.
Wouldn't oxygen in the air oxidize aluminum and create that layer regardless?
No
We couldn't possibly use these button things. They are secret arcane technology.
Been for some time now.
Was still too expensive for many parts of the world until a few years ago.
Maybe. But these pots will life longer then myself. I am sure my grandkids will still be able to use them.. and they aren't even born yet
It's like EVs. A great paradigm shift in the underlying base technology, accompanied by puzzling interface and control designs that really detract from the enjoyability of the transition.
Fast heating, wipe clean, works off clean electricity, roasts me less in the summer, doesn't care about the air coming from a window, starts the first time every time, what more could I ask for? I got this cheap plug in one and it dropkicks my installed gas stove in basically every metric.
Yeah fast and easy to clean. What more can you want?
Physical knobs to turn instead of the tests of the limits of my patience that are capacitive buttons on a cooking device.
Please and thank you.
I hate capacitive buttons so much
Some induction stoves do have real knobs. Smeg makes one that I have not used so I can't say anything about the quality, but I'm just happy that they exist.
That's an unfortunate company name. Especially for one that makes kitchen appliances.
It's an acronym for Smalterie Metallurgiche Emiliane Guastalla ("Emilian Guastalla Metallurgical Enamelling Works" in Italian). They're actually a pretty high end brand, but yes, the name is amusing
Smeghead
That's me. I appreciate the hell out of some enamel
For some reasom i was reading this as French even though i am Italian myself and I don't know much French beside the almost forgotten middle school knowledge
Aaand actual temperature control. Not just on/off 100% power.
Mine has 10 different power settings
Ah yes, the duty cycling is annoying, too!
Temperature control seems to have so much delay that it seesaws wildly and isn't actually useful in practice. I couldn't get mine to boil eggs without it stopping the boil constantly, unless I set it to 160°+ IIRC.
Maybe not temp control, struggling to find a word, but a constant power flow instead of the on off duty cycle
I've never noticed a duty cycle with my induction, only conventional cooktops. Is that a problem with particularl makes, models, or price points?
My induction just sets the power output to the level I choose and holds it there. It doesn't hold a temperature, just a power output, so I do have to watch it because setting it to medium will be very different on a hot pan vs a cold pan.
We have one at work that does this. Super annoying. If you put it at 5/10 it's full blast 3 seconds and then off 3 seconds. It's probably prevalent on cheap models.
I've had trouble finding the right setting (particularly with rice in my case) because it does adjust the power output very rapidly and you don't have the temperature interia of a big ceramic pad in addition to your pan. Using cast iron on induction eliminates this problem. But I have a better way for eggs.
Steam your eggs in a steamer basket. Then you don't have to worry about the water coming back to a boil after adding the eggs and the eggs don't bounce around inside the pot.
i guess to be able to cook my food and keep me warm when the power goes out.
In my life I don’t think I’ve seen a power outage longer than a couple hours, and that was maybe once? I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen one. Maybe experienced 10-15 in my whole life, with most lasting minutes.
Am I just really lucky in my area? Or is this the experience most people have?
Texans need not answer, I already know.
it happens to me about once a year, where i lose power for like 2 days due to a snow storm
2 days with no power? Damn! I can see the allure of gas much more in this situation
Where do you live? US?
yes on the east coast. not anywhere partially remote
I live in Seattle, and this has been my experience. Techno-city powered by dams = reliable
Where in the hell do you live to see a power outage? I live in the EU and the longest power outage was for three hours when I was a child. That was the only one in my life.
In the US, objectively the greatest country in the world (/s), you can expect a major power outage every other year, and it will be blamed on the very people who fucking called it.
Last big one in my life was just a couple years ago, no power for two weeks. Greatest country in the world my ass.
As a backup for the induction cooktop I have a propane camping stove and a full gas cylinder. Last power outage when I actually needed it was in 2021.
Benefits of induction greatly outweigh the minute possibility of the power going out.
yes. i can agree, why plan for the 1% when the 99% would be more impactful. just really responding to the “what more could you want” to mention some benefits that other options have.
The main downside is that your pots and pans need to be compatible. In particular we have a few nice small pans, like actually small, and they work exclusively on the front left burner, and need to be a bit off center. I imagine there's something wrong with the stove or the pans, but it's a class of issues you don't have with resistive or gas stoves.
There are flat induction adapters for this very purpose, look 'em up, they're cheap. They heat from induction and then transfer the heat to anything that doesn't support induction itself, or is too small to work on a given burner.
While it obviously defeats the efficiency gains of induction, it's otherwise workable and can help you with everything that can't be put straight on the stove.
Basically anything you can buy now is compatible..of course that means your grandma's pots downt work any more but all my stuff is now nearly 30 years old and works with induction.
I know it's not everything, because recently a relative bought a pan without checking and only realized when it was on the stove and refused to work :P
It's not a big deal, but not something I'd ignore, since it's a real downside specific to induction.
if i could afford an induction cooker with a bowl shaped coil to fit a wok, i'd be fully satisfied.
what more could I ask for?
Longevity. My first induction lasted 10 years. My second 3 years, my 3rd six months, my fourth weeks. I use a conventional glasstop electric now.
Interesting. Is everything alright with your wiring/electric source? Because them dying in progressively shorter time tells this way.
Still, conventional electric is not bad.
Electrical is fine. Planned obsalescence is shit.
If there was a problem with the wiring, wouldn't conventional electric also have issues?
Yes. But the issue was declining then shit quality of GE induction.
My conventional is rocking it. I miss my original induction, but they just don't make em like they used to. When (if) I find the money, I'll take one more gamble on induction and try a miele.
Dang, that sucks. I'm still daily using an electric stove from the 1950's lol. I would love it if modern "environmentally friendly" appliances could last this long
like a hot plate?
whichonemyhotplateistooshittytousemymokapotonbutihavezeroproblemsusingthemokapotovergasProbably because your moka pot is aluminum (or otherwise non-magnetic) so induction can't heat it.
On this topic, there are adapter plates you can get for moka pots (basically just a piece of steel on a handle) so you can use them on induction.
oh, my shitty hot plate is one of those coils. it's really shitty.
its problem is that it only has two settings, on and off, and it reaches the desired temperature by cycling between those. and full blast hot boils the water too fast.
Oh yea, that's a different problem. One of the big drawbacks of all radiant electric unfortunately.
Aluminum is more conductive than steel so eddy currents flow more easily in aluminum. Some pans have an aluminum disc inside, for induction stovetops. Maybe it’s too much aluminum vs just a disc? His hot plate might be too low power or not induction just a glass top
This is wrong. Induction requires magnetism, not conductivity. A pure aluminum pan will not get hot on an induction hob. Some aluminum pans have an iron or steel plate inserted in their base to allow them to work on induction.
OK you’re saying the higher resistance of the steel is needed for adequate heat. Got it
No, I am saying the pan has to be magnetic, which is what I have said 3 times now. You are completely wrong about how induction cooking works.
Heat from eddy currents is a small fraction of what magnetic hysteresis can produce. You can technically heat any good conductor with eddy currents alone if it is non-magnetic, but the equipment needed is significantly more complex and power hungry than induction cooking hobs.
You're wrong too, what on Earth does hysteresis have to do with heating??
Because we're working with AC, we need a small skin effect, which is given by the inverse square root of [pifrequencypermeability*conductivity]. It's permeability that's going to be the deciding factor here, because all metals have reasonably similar conductivity but ferromagnetic materials have four orders of magnitude higher permeability.
This also means that steel which is not ferromagnetic will not work on an induction stovetop. The stove will detect it and the chip will reject the pan to prevent damage to the coils.
Within two weeks my gas stove and oven are getting chucked out the door. Replaced with an induction stove top and a convection/steam oven/air fryer.
Induction is the best cooktop tech for daily use, and that's a hill I'm willing to die on. I live in a rented place and cannot simply get rid of our gas range. However, it has a piece of kitchen counter placed on top of it and is only in use for its oven, which thankfully is electric. On top of the counter though? An induction hob.
Maybe, but its also the only cooktop tech that can interfere with implanted electronic medical devices like pacemakers.
and since I have people with pacemakers in my family, I hard avoid induction.
Deyre goin to take muh gas stowve
Imagine having less asthma in kids and the elderly! Imagine having your inside air be less ubhealthy
Call me a dumbass, but until a couple of years ago I had no clue anything was unhealthy about gas.
CH4 + O2 + fire -> CO2 + H2O
I suspect most of Gen X and earlier still believe gas stoves to be harmless.
They better. It's already affecting your spelling part of the brain
That was just parody.
Cannot roast marshmallows OR light a joint, literally what is this used for???
Who the hell roasts marshmallows inside????
Also buy yourself a lighter
People with proper stoves.
And I've got a lighter, it weighs 200lb, has four burner heads and gets my hair for me at the same time.
Aka the mentally unwell.
Good to hear you have a non portable lighter.
Dr says the fumes are good for my mental health.
Handheld lighters are fine for beginners or if you really need to be able to move your lighter, but if you look at any enthusiast or professional setup you're gonna see fixed / static lighters most of the time. Handheld lighters just don't have the stability or lighting capacity needed for more serious applications.
I see. You must be a real lightsr enthusiast to be so invested in serious heavy duty lighters
dude this is the fediverse what did you expect to find here
I was not expecting anything.
Now I'm picturing someone putting a marshmallow on a spoon and holding a lighter under it to roast it.
Induction is anti smoking propaganda. They want to take away our freedoms!
Upvote for funny.
Man, so many people have zero sense of humor.
Justice for jiffy pop!
I bet if you made the induction coils stronger, it could work on aluminum
(Imagines an induction stove surface powerful enough to induce heat in non-ferromagnetic metals. Shudders in fear. Twitches in excitement)
I love the idea. I hate the shitty unreliable overly digital implementation. Induction came around after everything was already well on the way to enshittification. Components are sized to last through warranty, not to last 20 or 30 years.
My gas stove, which has certainly many issues, hasn’t got a chip in it, and with occasional replacement of igniters will likely outlast me, unless we choose to replace it. This is a unique stove though, I will admit.
Your gas stove will outlast you. Partly because it is a very simple appliance, but also because gas stoves are fucking terrible for your health.
They are terrible if you don't use an exhaust system sized to your stove.
Cooking on induction unvented is also bad, less bad than cooking on unvented gas, but you're still putting things in the air that you're not supposed to breathe.
If you have an exhaust fan, turn it on no matter what you cook with. If you don't have an exhaust system, open a window.
No, gas stoves CONSTANTLY ooze dangerous gas. You cannot get a 100% sealed-whole-off burner on gas stoves. They just aren't made well enough (it would be crazy expensive).
In one study, 75% of the methane released from the stoves released while they were "off".
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358175476_Methane_and_NO_x_Emissions_from_Natural_Gas_Stoves_Cooktops_and_Ovens_in_Residential_Homes
But yeah, there is this dumb trend in the EU to have filters that just filter the gas through a bit of (very quickly saturated and useless) carbon and spit it back out in the same room if you have an induction stove in order to seal the house better for EPC energy efficiency rating. It should be vented outside.
I have an air quality monitor in my living room, and it knows when the stove is on in the kitchen, even if I have the windows open. It's debatable how much of an effect it has on your health, but overall, we should stop burning fossil fuels wherever and whenever possible. Ditching my gas appliances in my house is high on my list of things to spend money on, even though it's probably going to be ~10K to get them all switched over.
I want to systematically test air quality when cooking with gas versus electric. Do you notice anything different in the air quality when you use a toaster or other electric appliance that heats food above 350°F/175°C?
I do not have a gas stove but I do have have multiple air quality sensors. Any amount of cooking causes particulates to increase from a base range of 2 to 200+ for 2.5 and 10 ppm.
I’m similar. Surprisingly quick jumps in particulates and voc in the family room when the stove in the kitchen was turned on.
I don’t notice it on small electric appliances (but never explicitly tested them), and no longer have a gas stove
I also have a hepa filter in the family room that would come on surprisingly quickly and made a significant difference …. When it was new. Unfortunately that has gotten bumped so many times that it is usually throwing an error
With gas stoves the issue is mainly NO2, however all cooking releases volatile chemicals which typically get worse depending on how oily the food is.
Really the problem is with ventilation moreso how or what you are cooking. Most non industrial range hoods are severely underpowered and installed incorrectly.
I have a relatively small range hood to which installed an industrial inline exhaust fan too. Even though it's small, the motor is strong enough to clear any smoke in the kitchen within a min.
Yeah I’ve been a little worried about that ….
My detector does not measure NOx, so I have no idea. But now that the gas stove is gone it’s no longer relevant
And yeah, definitely concerned about ventilation. I also have a pretty powerful inline exhaust fan, however there is no hood at all. The previous owners installed a pot rack in place of the hood and the kitchen is small enough that I can’t really change that. The exhaust fan is just a ceiling vent. I have no idea whether that balances out as positive (strong fan) or negative (no hood), but now that the gas stove is gone, that’s also a bit less important.
I don’t know if visual spatter/smoke, or smell are useful indicators but the induction stove has less of these. It only cooks what I intend
Our last induction lasted 15 years untill somebody cracked it so you just need to not buy the cheapest ever and it's alright.
15 years is not long for a stove to last.
We only replaced it because it had a huge crack in it. It still worked no issue.
Sometimes I have to go back to cooking on a ceramic or gas at someone else's house and it always annoys me how long boiling water takes.
Make one the size of my 12" skillet so it doesn't create a neat little zone of heat surrounded by sticky cold pan, and I'm all yours. Haven't seen one yet.
not quite 12" but the biggest element on mine would probably be great with your skillet (if its the right metal)
Looks good enough! All the ones I end up with are usually closer to 8" at most, and I ended up shifting the pan awkwardly to heat it evenly.
What model?
Not OP but the GE Cafe line has a big “burner” like this for a large pan. And physical turn knobs for control.
Bosch Benchmark, from 5 or 6 years ago
I have a GE profile. That has the various sized burners. The odd part is the matching microwave got rid of many touch buttons and replaced it with a knob, which actually works well, but the stove has no knobs. Stove touch buttons work fairly well though, added bonus is you can lock the controls with a lock button. When looking my favorite choices came from ge profile and bosch.
Consider one of those where you can combine the burners/zones
Maybe I just haven't gotten to use a nice one yet - every time it's a landlord special, cheapest junk on the market.
Yeah landlird specials suck. But if it's a newer one even the cheapest induction hobs are quite good
Don't get me wrong they boil water faster than hellfire, and if the pan is the right size they do great. I'm just too loyal to my big ol' skillet
Yeah I get you
Neff Flexzone...
Looked it up, seems like the widest zone is 23cm, about 7 too narrow for my skillet. Looks cool though
You can add zones together.. and that is possible over the complete width.
And burners are also only heating certain points..
Right, I did look at the dimensions. You can't fit a 30cm circle into a rectangle 23cm wide no matter how long it is though.
Cast iron heats up quite slowly, so any part not being heated means the pan is still going to be partially sticky, at least in my experience with induction.
Ultimately if I was in the position to be choosing my own hob, I'd probably just also buy a pan that fits the area. I'm not a gas burner advocate by any means.
I did..
Neff N90
Left and right 20x23 cm, center 30x23cm they can work together
I do this all the time
And yes, there is a dead zone but its just a few centimeters and conductivity for heat in metal is pretty high
Or Siemens iq700 No knob however
Wait, N90... I missed that one when I was looking online. Looks like the centre circular one is 32cm, that's the actual size of my big skillet. Thanks!! If I ever do get to pick my own hob, I'd love to get one like that.
The Siemens one looks a lot like one I got to try at my rich friend's place one time, bit too expensive for me but I like how well the centre extractor fan works.
That’s one of my biggest objections - too many cheap ones with tiny coils. When I got mine, I ended up spending double what I planned, mostly so I could get useful sized coils
And this being the US where induction is rare and expensive , I had to get a double oven and and “smart” features in order to get larger coils
Omg yes. I'd been wanting to try one out for a long time. My friend got one. Stayed over and tried to make my specialty giant pancakes. Sorely disappointed with the useless results. Now I just bring my waffle iron instead.
i had one (a couple decades ago) that the large burner had two zones: both the ring and the center of the ring could be activated independently. it's been a hot minute so i don't remember exactly how it worked.
and i need a 14 inch skillet for my good pastas
Just looked them up lately; there are all kinds of forms and sizes in mobile or built-in.
I have a hybrid cooktop. one burner is radiant, the other is induction. this solves all my problems.
I also regularly buy bar keepers friend to clean the pots as stuff stuck outside those pots tend to get fiercely stuck when not using LPG.
Induction is fast, but actually cooking is a PITA because mine at least adjusts power output via PWMing the whole output with a very slow square wave: i.e. it alternates between full on and completely off. Yes that's also what thermostats do on electric stoves with resistive elements, but those have extra thermal mass and thermal lag that smoothes out the overall heat output.
My neighbor's daughter bought an induction stove for her best friend who happens to be a trans dwarf porn star. She goes by Munchkin Cock Jenny and let me tell you she can cook a hell of a good meal on that thing. She hosted us all for Thanksgiving breakfast last year and made Vienna sausages with coconut rice and strawberry rhubarb pie, all mixed together on the stovetop. None of it got hot because she just placed it all on the surface but at least she tried. She died of meningitis about 4 hours after we left which is unfortunate because whoever had to deal with her estate had to clean the stovetop.
Hello Mr elephant
123 Via Elephant
Elephantsburg
F4T LF🐜
Luckily induction is really easy to clean.
I stopped using an induction burner after having some issues with it, but I think that may have just been user error. I only ever use burners for boiling water for tea these days, so maybe I should give it another try.
Which bits on, who can say. Perhaps none of it is on, perhaps resistive touch screen controls are a bad idea on the surface that might get wet. Who can say.
God I would kill for an induction stove with the classic interface for sure
They exist!
Ait then who's the target?
Is there a 'gib hot' supremacy gang? Ive litteraly made eggs on a hot stone just give me some temperature ill figure out the rest.
It's funny because while I didn't comment on the previous post about the superior burner location, I do happen to have an induction range that has the big coil in the front right. So I get to have a side in both conflicts!
Seriously though, induction is the undisputed winner. We've had this thing for years, and whatever price premium I paid to move up to a lower priced induction model was totally worth it.
That big "burner" plus my big nitrided carbon steel pan is my go-to now to start like 80% of things I cook on the stove. Not counting heating up water in the kettle daily, though. That uses the small burner behind the big one. Then there are two mediums on the left. Or maybe it's small, two large, and one XL.
I do love the induction stove at my gf's house, but the issue with induction is you basically have to throw out 75% of your cookware and go get the special heavy-bottomed pans and pots for the heating to be effective and even. Most everything I have that's decades old and salvaged from yard sales and the like does NOT work on induction like, at all.
My first cookware i bought nearly 30 years ago is induction ready.
Pretty much all of my cookware already was compatible when I switched
Same
Well if you have really old cookware that does not work on induction it's probably already time to replace it. Cast iron and quality stuff you would want to keep should work on induction.
All of mine worked with induction. Cast iron supremacy!
Cheap cast irons work well induction
Sounds pretty convectional to me
are there any induction stoves with gas ovens?
Why would you wnat such an odd combo?
Options and versatility, probably.
Faster pre heat? Gas puts out more BTUs but Induction stoves are great because they heat the pans directly, where gas heats the air under the pan as well as the pan. Baking however, requires you to heat the air in the oven, so gas is faster and more efficient for baking than it is for heating a pan.
cheaper fuel, much cheaper fuel
Just having a gas connection cost me £100/year until I had it disconnected. Absolutely not worth it. Also how much of that fuel is wasted in heat going around the pan?
none because that would just have been gas spent to beat the house anyways
Just what I need by an open window because I am cooking...
over stone vents are common here precisely because you don't want to waste that much heat with an open window
They definitely make induction stoves that are just the countertop part. I have one on my boat. Theoretically you could put one of those over a "regular" gas oven, but the gas ovens almost always have a stove built in.
Totally, you'll never get this experience with any other style of range.
Edit: "BuT tHaT's CeRaMiC" ... Oh ok, my bad, good thing induction doesn't use a glass surface too.
No, it isn't as extreme, but I still wouldn't cook on a cracked glass surface if it was induction or ceramic.
But that's a resistive (ceramic) stove?
Yeah my old landlord provided that exact model, it's fine. Not that bad when you're used to landlord specials. Idk how they managed to do that unless they were like thawing stuff next to boiling water, both on the glass, or dropped cast iron from some height
Never seen this in my 10 years og using induction. must have been some super cheap shit.
Because that's not an induction stove. It's a heating element one that glows red.
Those red hot things are incandescing, like old light bulbs. Except with heating elements, they're designed to primarily give off heat when they incandesce, rather than prioritize light.
Yeah, still not induction.
What?
Edit: ohhh, you're fighting. Sorry, no I just popped in for a neat science tip. Carry on.
We have been on induction for 20yrs. Our grandparents on 15. We only broke 1 plate and not nearly as catastrophically. Was just a big crack along the entire thing.
It was just one of those days, feeling like a freight train
Wow! What sueface cleaner is that? It is crystal clear now! /s
Ceramic ones are the same except they have shittier heating. Also what kinda shit plate was that and what the hell did you drop on it? Ours cracked because someone dropped a huge ceramic baking dish on it and it was just a crack jot a fucking hole in it.
Don't fuck that hole
No idea, I'm from the burner supremacy gang and the picture is from a search engine. But I DID have a large variety of similar images to choose from.
But why? I fucking hate burners. They are slow, send more heat into the room than the food, pain in the ass to clean and also release possible carcinogens into your air. The only advantage they have over induction is that they cannot crack. I seriously don't get what people see in them.
Wok cooking is the only thing I miss from having a gas stove
The only answer I'll accept
Tortillas on an open flame is what I miss the most. Especially when there made from scratch.
And every pan or pot or whatever that isn't 100% space-flat.
A typical induction stove can heat way faster/hotter than a typical gas stove.
So unless you specifically had an industrial gas stove specifically for your wok, chances are you can do the same recipes, just in a flat pan.
There are even induction stoves with a bowl that fit a round wok, but that's pretty niche.
Fuck, I'll take resistive over gas. It takes some skill, but I'm used to it. I've only used gas in other people's homes and I just didn't like it nearly as much.
I will go induction whenever I have a choice though, it just by all measures sounds better
I sadly have gas in my current apartment and I despise it. I would just dislike it if it was not so goddamn inpossible to clean.
they're great for caramellizing whole onions, but you could also buy a blowtorch
Like without a pan? Straight into the fire?
yep, great for brown stock
@papalonian could use the elements to light the joint.
I have that exact same stovetop in my apartment. It's kinda shitty in general, but it's not induction
That looks like a shitty whirlpool or other shitty generic $150 home depot glass top coil burner, not induction.
I wanted capacitive but couldn't, where I live that spike in electricity is simply not sustainable, power wise
I'm pretty sure capacitors aren't used as heating elements in cooktops, it's just resistors and inductors that are options. A capacitive cooktop would be fucking weird in any of the ways I can picture it being done
Y'all motherfuckers arguing about burners like the best food isn't cooked with woodsmoke
This is the part where Lemmy's demographics leaves little room for others to speak without accused of an ecological terrorist.
Induction stoves aren't compatible with a lot of ethnic cuisines. Chinese and Mexican food require gas stoves for a lot of applications like woks and charring vegetables. Curved induction stoves are not widely and affordably available in the US, and landlords would never bother installing specialty stoves like this. Having to get a separate gas stove to put on already limited counter space and rendering regular stoves useless is frustrating. The oven broiler is nowhere as ergonomic and effective as a stove top broiler and it's back breaking having to duck and constantly check because you cannot see what you are charring. This is just two of many other ethnic cuisines that are impacted by this.
Please let people, especially female minorities who are disproportionately impacted by this, keep one of our last vestiges of cultural ties. If it comes to ecological impact, there are so many other aspects in life down to the very phone you are using and clothing on your back that can be improved upon.
Lemmy, for better or for worse, is a very tech-bro environment. I know that this makes matters like cooking seemingly trivial and gas stoves to be in excess. But for many of us, the meals we cook are the last things we hold on to after our languages and national identity fade away. Meals made without an open flame are simply not the same because many techniques cannot be done without it.
Many techniques can be replicated on an induction stove mainly because induction is way better at heating the pans than gas is. Unless you have a really strong industrial gas stove you are jot getting any benefits pf gas over induction anyway.
And this post is not erasing your culture/ cuisine so stop playing the victim and keep using whatever you want. I honestly don't care if you cook on a campfire inside your kitchen if that is what you prefer or the specific dish requires.
But the point stands that for most people and most applications in cooking induction just is the best.
Tell me you don't know how to cook ethnic cuisines without telling me. This is the kind of tech-bro arrogance that presumes everything is easy and therefore replaceable with technology.
Calling it 'playing the victim' is straightup gaslighting and ignorance at its peak. 'For most people' means for people who are either white, don't cook much, or both. It's a time old tale of instituting a policy that in practice primarily affects minorities and women, but then claiming that it's egalitarian because it targets neither on paper.
oh my god dude its a meme just downvote it and move on, mfs really can't have any fun huh
this has to be a bit lmao
Induction cooktops are shitty in a lot of ways. If you end up needing to char on one, you can take an iron or steel grill top and put it directly on the induction eye and you’ll get the lines and color but not the smoke.
But we’re all just using a can of la costena chipotles in adobo anyway so no big loss.
Can't justify it. I run one burner on my gas stove for about seven minutes a day. That's it. It's paid for and gas is dirt cheap here. Seven minutes a day gas fume exposure is not what will end up killing me.
Sure, if you cook all day, reducing big pots of stock for hours at a time, etc., then it makes sense. But, it's not for everyone.
The issue with gas is not it's moneteray cost, but rather its ecological cost. It is and will remain unsustainable to burn fossil fuels for energy. Even if gas was free. So you're point about it being cheap might be a justification for your individual situation, but only if you disregard the impact it has on our shared ecological habitat.
You might not be paying a lot for it, but we will.
The thing is, gas cooking will be banned at some point and you won't be able to buy new ones. It is not a matter of "if" but "when". I don't know if that is going to be soon or not, probably depends where you live really. But given that is where it will go eventually, it sure would be nice if the induction options came down in price and there were options across the range of models available. Currently, most brands only offer induction at the top of their range and radiant electric at the lower end and it would be better all around if they were treated separately instead of tricking consumers into "it is just cheap electric vs expensive electric".
Thats not gonna happen anytime soon...
Well I do more than just 7 min of cooking per day so I prefer induction. You could probably do without a stove in the first place then
A cheap counter top induction is very cheap. Could easily pay for it and make money by selling off the gas stove.
Didn't they just find out years ago that burning natural gas or propane or something IS actually really bad for you?
Really the dangers of NO2 and other VOC isnt really an issue as long as you have some form of ventilation. The real problem are small apartments with no range hoods or ability to crack a window. Even then, it's about the same as handing out within 50m of a major roadway for the same time period.
Gas baby!
As long as you don't have kids it's a good option. Otherwise it can contribute to life long health issues.
Gas stoves should be operated with active venting. US loves to pump out shitty epidemiology studies that are poorly controlled and are foregone conclusions.
Where you live with respect to air pollutants makes much more difference than a gas stove.
Well this went a direction I didn't expect.
Imagine burning fossil fuels instead of using renewable energy for cooking, hahahha.
Imagine being you, hahahha
I've had too many induction stove tops turn off too many times by moving a pan over the on button for this to be true
That's not really an induction top issue, but rather a general issue with "smart" appliances. Electric stove tops with touch have the same issue and my induction top with knobs works fine.
In my experience at least the vast majority of induction tops have touch controls but I understand that they can come without
It's not a problem inherit to induction hobs. But oh god do I agree. On mine it's any little spill or pot out of place on any touch button will turn it off. I will demand physical knobs on my next stove top.
You won't be able to make any proper Asian stir fry on this shit. You need huge heat for a short period of time that only a gas stove can do. My parents in law have a gas stove that looks and works like a jet fighter afterburner, including the sound. No induction here mate.
I am sorry but you are somewhat wrong. My induction stove can heat my steel wok to smoking hit in 5 seconds and glowing red in 20. Induction can deliver the energy much quicker and more efficient than gas.
You still need a good induction stove top with enough power though. In Europe that is easy with 400V outlets. In North America you usually need one with a built in capacitor to get a similar result.
Eh, yes and no. You are getting the areas that are in contact with the cooking surface red hot, which with a flat bottom wok is a really small area. Since most woks are made out of thin metal, you aren't getting much heat transfer to the majority of the pan like you would with gas.
Tbh the best option imo for stirfry is just to have an outdoor wok burner hooked up to a propane tank. Unless you have an industrial stove, you aren't getting the pan hot enough on gass either.
There are actually special wok induction plates. The are shaped like the wok and are much closer to the real heat distribution of a gas burner. Nevertheless I don't think that is necessary. My wok gets plenty hot where it matters and I make a killer fried rice.
For a stove top, or like a stand alone device?
I mean..... It is, especially depending on what and how much food you are cooking.
Making a "killer fried rice" isn't the end all be all of wok cooking. I have had plenty of white people make what they claim is great fried rice that is greasy dog shit because they can't get their woks hot enough.
As someone who grew up in Chinese restaurant kitchens..... I can assure you a flat bottomed wok on an induction stovetop is never going to be adequate for traditional Chinese cooking. If there is an induction plate shaped to fit a round bottom wok and you could rock the wok on without damaging it.....that would be a different story.
Until then I'm going to stick to using my outdoor burner, especially considering that the only electric utilities I have access to are already created with natural gas.
Seconding this. I am but a humble gringo, and I do love an induction Cook top, but the insistence that everyone in earth can move 100% to induction in every instance only applies if you're only making European dishes where flat bottom pans are standard.
Proper wok cooking needs gas, end of story.
Both. There are stove tops available with a place for a wok as well as stand alone devices.
I do have induction in my kitchen, the most powerful plate is 2.7kW. IIRC I could get gas up to 11kW on one burner.
Maybe there's more powerful ones, the electrics are 3 phases of 220V with 16A - so theoretically I could push up to 10.5kW of electrical power into the stove.
It would need to communicate with the oven in that case, as the oven currently uses the 3 phase.
They make curved induction stovestops to rest your wok like a traditional wok burner, but a strong induction stovetop will be able to do the same, you just won't be able to set it down on anything lol.
Its not as common in consumer because gas is still very common in Asia, but there are several models available as well as full sized restaurant induction wok stoves that can fit proper big woks with ease and hit the very high heat needed for the first use seasoning stage.
The heat response time is slightly better than gas, you just lose out on the visual
queuecue of your flame.Well you need a really strong stir fry rated burner if you want that. 99% of people that have gas stoves do not have one that can do that. You ain't stir frying shit on this kind of gas stove believe me.
Induction has more energy and transmits more energy to pots. Also there are induction woks https://youtu.be/CzJKxUCKOBg