Yeah, last time that happened dude changed things around and was so popular with the people the other party had to put a rule into place to not let people elect someone more than twice.
Yeah, and the last time someone ran on that platform, they were elected to the Democratic ticket in the midterms by a blowout, then the Democratic party ignored the will of the voters and nominated their donor-approved candidate, who then went on to lose one of the most important elections in US history to a pedophilic Russian asset, who then dismantled the US government, sold it and every state secret to the highest bidder, ushered in an authoritarian ultra-conservative regime, and then performed a self-coup to seize and consolidate power.
look. I voted bernie in the primary but he did not win the popular vote much less blow it out and the dnc did not ignore the will of the voters. There was a lot of bs but an actual ignoring of the vote totals.
Wilding v. DNC is the court case where the DNC admitted that they don't have to abide by the primaries because they are a private entity and can nominate whomever they want.
There used to be transcripts of this everywhere.
I'm all for everyone voting for the "lesser of two evils". I think everyone should go vote in the primaries. I also think everyone should pay very close attention to the DNC bureaucracy and minor rule changes and what everyone around them is saying and voting for.
Because seeing everything up close, in a world full of lies and deception, is what most people need to understand the truth. So they can make the hard decisions they will need to make.
Bernie had the legs knocked out from under him in 16' and the DNC straight up stabbed him in the back in 20'. "Joementum" was manufactured propaganda AFAIC because Biden was in a distant fourth and one minor win in South Carolina does not a lead make. The DNC is just as afraid of socialists as the GOP, but not because they are diametrically opposed to the platform, but because they are afraid they might have to actually work at governance.
yeah Im not debating them being against him. Just that they did not straight up ignore the vote totals or such like that. I think that is a big thing between the republicans and democrats with people saying they are the same. republicans have gotten to where they are straight out violationg laws outright and as a matter of policy including the constitution and even their supreme court make decisions based on chicanery and self interest.
I mean, you can readin the transcripts where the attorney for the DNC says as much to the judge in open court. I am not theorizing.
Like I said, anyone reading this should vote in the primaries and watch the DNC's bureaucracy closely and understand what is going on, whatever that may be, for themselves.
The DNC arguing in court that they don't have to abide by primary elections isn't the same thing as the DNC actually not abiding by the primary elections. The DNC absolutely abided by the primary elections in 2016, and there's no evidence to the contrary.
Sure, the superdelegate system was overwhelmingly for Clinton, but Bernie was already behind in the elected delegate total. Either way, in 2018, the DNC changed the rules so superdelegates can't even vote in the first round anymore, so will only get a vote if a convention is contested.
You are right, arguing in court that you can cheat all you want is not the same as cheating all you want, and nothing was proven because instead of airing it out in court, the judge said "well yes, you can cheat all you want" and it was over.
For the rest of your statements, I'm not getting into the specifics of rule changes and time changes and all the bullshit that happened in 2016. The minutia of bureaucratic processes and small sub-rule changes would be lost on anyone trying to find truth.
The court case though, that's big and obvious and simple, and it's very telling that your only argument against it is 'arguing in court you can legally cheat, is not the same as cheating', followed by 'nobody proved anything because they could legally cheat and the case was thrown out'.
For the rest of your statements, I’m not getting into the specifics of rule changes and time changes and all the bullshit that happened in 2016. The minutia of bureaucratic processes and small sub-rule changes would be lost on anyone trying to find truth.
Literally my entire argument is that even without the influence of superdelegates Bernie didn't win the primary election. If your argument against that is "I'm not getting into the specifics," that is pretty telling.
I voted for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. I think he would've wiped the floor with Trump. I don't like how the DNC picked sides in 2016 at all and do not support the DNC. That doesn't mean Bernie didn't actually lose the election, because he did.
I think it's somewhere in between the two, but I followed Bernie's advice and didn't hold a vote in protest, because that would have been disastrous for... oh, yeah, it was.
It's a Voyager app thing that means that you (yes you specifically) have upvoted that user's posts and/or comments once or more than once but you've also downvoted.
"We don't want everyone to pool their resources to pay for everyone's healthcare! We want random groups of people to pool their resources to pay a for profit middleman to pay for some of their healthcare!"
The only explanation for being against single payer is that you want to hurt "them". Not that you actually are, you're hurting a whole bunch of people, probably including yourself, but you want to hurt "them".
Its a dog whistle for racists. What he means is "brown people will get free healthcare". He's a disgusting racist.piece of shit, so you have to read every word through that lens.
Its kept general so everyone hating any group can go 'fuck yeah', whether that be brown people, homeless people, immigrants, gypsies, punk rockers, gingers, kpop-lovers, people-who-wear-dino-suits, etc
As a Canadian who hears this on the regular, the threat is that the seniors will have to pay for the healthcare of the irresponsible youths. With their skateboards and lack of helmets.
He had plenty of long waits for appointments, but facts and reasoning weren't involved.
Case in point: A 3 month wait in Canada - must be caused by universal healthcare = healthcare rationing = bad.
That same 3 month wait in the U.S. = Freedom!
I think that argument is interesting in the US because when I lived in a very conservative area health insurance was extremely expensive and covered very little. I had to wait months to get seen by my doctors, even for urgent issues, and every time I walked through the door of my doctor's office it cost me $200.
Now I live in a purple area where a large amount of the population is on Medicare or Medicaid. My insurance is worlds better and hundreds of dollars a month cheaper. I've rarely had to wait more than a month to see my doctor and if I am waiting a long time it's usually because the issue isn't urgent and I'm trying to get an appointment that fits in optimally with my schedule, not just take the next available appointment.
People are afraid their taxes will go up to pay for universal healthcare. They're not as worried about the fortune they already spend to kill brown kids on behalf of an expansionist regime, or the other fortune they now spend on fuel (and by virtue, everything else that needs to be transported to them) because their government attacked one of the regime's critics.
In Mexico, our president promised that in her presidential campaign. And she is working hard to get there, even though, my impression is she won't make it, because it's not an easy endeavor. Can't imagine why a whole society would not want this. I know they are not idiots.
What??! I don't want Frank getting any ice cream; that guy sucks! Therefore nobody should get any ice cream unless we can guarantee Frank doesn't get any
Republicans would rather deny healthcare to their own family and the boogyman "illegal immigrant that's somehow also taking all the jobs" than provide it for those that need it.
Yes he did say that BUT those that fervently support him will see it differently "they will take your money and your children's money and give free healthcare to the immigrants, give it to me i have a better plan with it" and unfortunately you can't cure stupid no matter how much we progress in medicine.
You mean the government funded by OUR tax dollars actually spending OUR tax dollars ON US instead of their rich buddies, their dictator buddies, or themselves?
(rather than our tax dollars blowing up A CHILDREN'S FUCKING SCHOOL in Iran, or shooting sailors in the water from fishing boats we sunk in Venezuela, or giving the money to genocidal mideastern shitbags wanting to own everything?)
Yeah, I'd hate to see our money spent on keeping us alive and healthy rather than using it to fuck up the entire planet.
What will we ever do without our bloodsucking insurance middleman denying the procedures our doctors say we need and that we fucking pay for in hundreds of dollars per month!
And they're horrified by that. He's saying it to scare them. They're always afraid of the "undeserving" getting things from tax revenue. Only their side is worthy.
Gonna need a link on that one (don’t necessarily doubt it - because nothing is out of the question since years ago - I just want to know and share that this was real)
It definitely feels astroturfy that this particular quote is getting spread around right now. Someone wants you us to think the Dems are gonna do something about health care, but they don't want to make the claim directly, because that invites debunking. This way it kinda slips under the radar.
I don't know why I don't believe these things. They are always so bat shit crazy I figure that can't be real. So I looked it up and sure enough he said it in 2024. SMH. I'm not including a source because doing a search came up with dozens pretty much right of the bat.
90 replies
Anybody got the source handy?
would be nice if the democrats were a 10th as socialist as the GOP says.
Yeah, last time that happened dude changed things around and was so popular with the people the other party had to put a rule into place to not let people elect someone more than twice.
Yeah, and the last time someone ran on that platform, they were elected to the Democratic ticket in the midterms by a blowout, then the Democratic party ignored the will of the voters and nominated their donor-approved candidate, who then went on to lose one of the most important elections in US history to a pedophilic Russian asset, who then dismantled the US government, sold it and every state secret to the highest bidder, ushered in an authoritarian ultra-conservative regime, and then performed a self-coup to seize and consolidate power.
DNC: "Why is everyone looking at me? What?"
look. I voted bernie in the primary but he did not win the popular vote much less blow it out and the dnc did not ignore the will of the voters. There was a lot of bs but an actual ignoring of the vote totals.
Wilding v. DNC is the court case where the DNC admitted that they don't have to abide by the primaries because they are a private entity and can nominate whomever they want.
There used to be transcripts of this everywhere.
I'm all for everyone voting for the "lesser of two evils". I think everyone should go vote in the primaries. I also think everyone should pay very close attention to the DNC bureaucracy and minor rule changes and what everyone around them is saying and voting for.
Because seeing everything up close, in a world full of lies and deception, is what most people need to understand the truth. So they can make the hard decisions they will need to make.
so thats a nice theoretical but its not what happened in 2016 with bernie.
Bernie had the legs knocked out from under him in 16' and the DNC straight up stabbed him in the back in 20'. "Joementum" was manufactured propaganda AFAIC because Biden was in a distant fourth and one minor win in South Carolina does not a lead make. The DNC is just as afraid of socialists as the GOP, but not because they are diametrically opposed to the platform, but because they are afraid they might have to actually work at governance.
GASP!!
yeah Im not debating them being against him. Just that they did not straight up ignore the vote totals or such like that. I think that is a big thing between the republicans and democrats with people saying they are the same. republicans have gotten to where they are straight out violationg laws outright and as a matter of policy including the constitution and even their supreme court make decisions based on chicanery and self interest.
I mean, you can readin the transcripts where the attorney for the DNC says as much to the judge in open court. I am not theorizing.
Like I said, anyone reading this should vote in the primaries and watch the DNC's bureaucracy closely and understand what is going on, whatever that may be, for themselves.
Oh 100%. Primaries at this point are the elections for me.
The DNC arguing in court that they don't have to abide by primary elections isn't the same thing as the DNC actually not abiding by the primary elections. The DNC absolutely abided by the primary elections in 2016, and there's no evidence to the contrary.
Sure, the superdelegate system was overwhelmingly for Clinton, but Bernie was already behind in the elected delegate total. Either way, in 2018, the DNC changed the rules so superdelegates can't even vote in the first round anymore, so will only get a vote if a convention is contested.
You are right, arguing in court that you can cheat all you want is not the same as cheating all you want, and nothing was proven because instead of airing it out in court, the judge said "well yes, you can cheat all you want" and it was over.
For the rest of your statements, I'm not getting into the specifics of rule changes and time changes and all the bullshit that happened in 2016. The minutia of bureaucratic processes and small sub-rule changes would be lost on anyone trying to find truth.
The court case though, that's big and obvious and simple, and it's very telling that your only argument against it is 'arguing in court you can legally cheat, is not the same as cheating', followed by 'nobody proved anything because they could legally cheat and the case was thrown out'.
Literally my entire argument is that even without the influence of superdelegates Bernie didn't win the primary election. If your argument against that is "I'm not getting into the specifics," that is pretty telling.
I voted for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. I think he would've wiped the floor with Trump. I don't like how the DNC picked sides in 2016 at all and do not support the DNC. That doesn't mean Bernie didn't actually lose the election, because he did.
I think it's somewhere in between the two, but I followed Bernie's advice and didn't hold a vote in protest, because that would have been disastrous for... oh, yeah, it was.
funny how that's coming back to bite them in the ass, eh? 😂
Sorry to ask this here, but what is the little green +1 next to your user name?
It's a Voyager app thing that means that you (yes you specifically) have upvoted that user's posts and/or comments once or more than once but you've also downvoted.
Here's how yours looks in my client:
So i see a red -1 next to my own name. So I down voted myself once? Sounds like me.
I think summit added that for like less than a week and I kinda liked it but then it went away as suddenly as it arose
Wow. I've upvoted you 16 times. Nice work.
Thanks 😁
Sounds like something your client is doing, as I don't see that
Your honour, my client is innocent!
The message is for his supporters, who don't want everyone to have things, just a select few that they think they're part of.
"We don't want everyone to pool their resources to pay for everyone's healthcare! We want random groups of people to pool their resources to pay a for profit middleman to pay for some of their healthcare!"
The only explanation for being against single payer is that you want to hurt "them". Not that you actually are, you're hurting a whole bunch of people, probably including yourself, but you want to hurt "them".
If you attribute their actions to bigotry and racism what seemed like bizarre behavior makes total sense. They'll cut their arm off for it.
They are missing the part where everyone pays to give them these things too.
Yes but they want the FREEDOM to not pay at all because only COMMUNISTS need doctors.
Its a dog whistle for racists. What he means is "brown people will get free healthcare". He's a disgusting racist.piece of shit, so you have to read every word through that lens.
Its kept general so everyone hating any group can go 'fuck yeah', whether that be brown people, homeless people, immigrants, gypsies, punk rockers, gingers, kpop-lovers, people-who-wear-dino-suits, etc
As a Canadian who hears this on the regular, the threat is that the seniors will have to pay for the healthcare of the irresponsible youths. With their skateboards and lack of helmets.
And seniors are terrified of..... Everything.
It's funny because elder people need way more care...
Meanwhile they end up in intensive care for a week if thet catch a bad cold.
Zero sum game thinking.
"If other people are getting health care then there won't be any left for me!"
That's why people hear that and agree / are afraid
My brother, staunch Republican asshole, didn't want universal healthcare because he might have to wait longer for an appointment.
It didn't matter that it would cost less, have better outcomes, and people die without it. It was only about his convenience.
(You might want to share average wait times in the US vs CA these days; it no longer favors the US iirc)
Has he never waited a long time for an appointment? I had a three month wait to see a cardiologist.
He had plenty of long waits for appointments, but facts and reasoning weren't involved.
Case in point: A 3 month wait in Canada - must be caused by universal healthcare = healthcare rationing = bad. That same 3 month wait in the U.S. = Freedom!
Well at least you know his answer to the trolly problem I guess
Yeah, sounds right.
He might have to wait 3.5 months, cause someone with more pressing need got priority...
I think that argument is interesting in the US because when I lived in a very conservative area health insurance was extremely expensive and covered very little. I had to wait months to get seen by my doctors, even for urgent issues, and every time I walked through the door of my doctor's office it cost me $200.
Now I live in a purple area where a large amount of the population is on Medicare or Medicaid. My insurance is worlds better and hundreds of dollars a month cheaper. I've rarely had to wait more than a month to see my doctor and if I am waiting a long time it's usually because the issue isn't urgent and I'm trying to get an appointment that fits in optimally with my schedule, not just take the next available appointment.
Hmmm. Sounds woke.
No no no, you're thinking the wrong (non-racist) way.
"Everybody gets healthcare!'
Means all the non white people also get healthcare. Now we wouldn't want that, wouldn't we?
(This is a joke/shitpost. Universal healthcare should be available to anyone regardless of skin color)
We're fucking doomed!
People are afraid their taxes will go up to pay for universal healthcare. They're not as worried about the fortune they already spend to kill brown kids on behalf of an expansionist regime, or the other fortune they now spend on fuel (and by virtue, everything else that needs to be transported to them) because their government attacked one of the regime's critics.
Or indeed the other fortune they spend on the current healthcare system.
Universal healthcare would save 114,000 American lives a year, and would cost 1 trillion dollars less per year than what we have right now.
wHy Do MiLlEnNiAlS hAtE pRoFiTs
"everyone" is code for black/brown/poor people.
My country is now beyond parody...
I feel sorry for the cast of snl :/
NEVER interrupt a terrorist when he’s making a mistake.
In Mexico, our president promised that in her presidential campaign. And she is working hard to get there, even though, my impression is she won't make it, because it's not an easy endeavor. Can't imagine why a whole society would not want this. I know they are not idiots.
We'll be thrown into a system where everybody gets two scoops of ice cream!
What??! I don't want Frank getting any ice cream; that guy sucks! Therefore nobody should get any ice cream unless we can guarantee Frank doesn't get any
I agree - I work hard, why should I pay for Frank's ice cream?
Yeah but that means also people you don't like.
Republicans would rather deny healthcare to their own family and the boogyman "illegal immigrant that's somehow also taking all the jobs" than provide it for those that need it.
Oh no we will be like every functional county on earth.
Yes he did say that BUT those that fervently support him will see it differently "they will take your money and your children's money and give free healthcare to the immigrants, give it to me i have a better plan with it" and unfortunately you can't cure stupid no matter how much we progress in medicine.
Did he leave off the part about forcibly transing your kids?
Oh right and the autism caused by healthcare.
You know you’re shit when the leader of the opposition sells your party better than you can.
If Democrats actually fought for free health care they'd sweep the elections
Goddammit. That sucks.
You mean the government funded by OUR tax dollars actually spending OUR tax dollars ON US instead of their rich buddies, their dictator buddies, or themselves?
(rather than our tax dollars blowing up A CHILDREN'S FUCKING SCHOOL in Iran, or shooting sailors in the water from fishing boats we sunk in Venezuela, or giving the money to genocidal mideastern shitbags wanting to own everything?)
Yeah, I'd hate to see our money spent on keeping us alive and healthy rather than using it to fuck up the entire planet.
What's next?
Free secondary education?
Is this the kind of world people like you want?
Ohnoes! The horror!
What will we ever do without our bloodsucking insurance middleman denying the procedures our doctors say we need and that we fucking pay for in hundreds of dollars per month!
And he's definitely wrong about this one.
And they're horrified by that. He's saying it to scare them. They're always afraid of the "undeserving" getting things from tax revenue. Only their side is worthy.
if dems want to win they should hire the republicans PR team, those are the promises we want.
I thought he was rewriting
RomneyObama care so everyone got healthcare anyway.N... gonna have healthcare, don't you fucking understand?
Gonna need a link on that one (don’t necessarily doubt it - because nothing is out of the question since years ago - I just want to know and share that this was real)
I can't find an actually good source, but it was widely reported--but back in 2024 when he was running against Kamala. E.g. https://www.salon.com/2024/08/16/warns-that-if-kamala-harris-wins-everybody-gets-health-care/
It definitely feels astroturfy that this particular quote is getting spread around right now. Someone wants you us to think the Dems are gonna do something about health care, but they don't want to make the claim directly, because that invites debunking. This way it kinda slips under the radar.
I don't know why I don't believe these things. They are always so bat shit crazy I figure that can't be real. So I looked it up and sure enough he said it in 2024. SMH. I'm not including a source because doing a search came up with dozens pretty much right of the bat.
Surely his addled brain just farted or something.
wHoS gOnNa PaY fOr It?!?
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/77208425
Yeah right
Trump found a line that will get centrists to stay home.