Taking out the trash involves lifting something that's usually heavy, twice. So the person that's more likely to have the higher upper body strength handling it makes sense.
Mowing vs gardening, you have a similar difference; particularly looking back at pre-powered mowers. Again, the person with the advantage of muscle mass is going to have less trouble doing it.
Cooking inside vs grilling? A lot less sensible. I really think that comes down to meat and fire rather than any practical reasons.
If you also look at the division of labor for those tasks through the lens of when they became stereotypes, you might notice that trash and mowing are very much a part of suburban life compared to rural or urban. The era when that became the way things work here in the US (where the stereotypes are mostly from) was one where the wife was at home and the man out at a job. Not universally so, but close enough.
The division of mowing and trash is also split along the lines of what needs doing steadily vs what needs doing irregularly, but takes more time to do at once. In a lifestyle where one partner has less day time available at home, them handling tasks on weekends and/or at end of day makes more sense as well.
The whole post war era here in the US shifted home dynamics into that kind of weird dichotomy. Not that the idea of women's work vs men's wasn't a thing everywhere, or that it only existed during that time. It's about this type of home tasks being split up by the standards of the lifestyle people thought they should have.
There's also the mess factor, and a shit ton of people born before the eighties or so and after maybe 1900-ish definitely had a concept that women shouldn't have to get dirty on a regular basis. Gardening in the suburban sense is a vastly different one than in the rural sense. In a suburban area, you're either talking flowers and decorative plants, or a small vegetable/"victory" garden. Neither of which is as messy or as large as an acre of crops to handle.
Mowing is a high sweat, messy job. Grilling compared to indoors cooking is a tad messier by virtue of the soot and ash.
I kid you not, doing home health back when the generation before the baby boom was solidly into old age, the more suburban a family was, the more likely they were to have the assumption that women shouldn't have to deal with the more physical, messier home maintenance jobs. Baby boomers carried it over for sure, but for them or was often that they grew up with that paradigm and didn't question it until later. I had way less gen-x patients that had a sustained home paradigm, so there's less direct observation for that, and next to zero for millennials.
I'm not saying it was right. I'm not judging it one way or another, not really; people can have whatever home arrangements they want, ain't none of my business. I'm just saying that it isn't as single facet as the screen shot tries to make it. It is/was a product of a full cultural shift and it wasn't as arbitrary as that makes it out to be.
I just want to recognize a really interesting, high effort comment. I’ve been thinking a lot about this stuff as I deconstruct my upbringing and this comment was really edifying for what it is: a thoughtful take, not portrayed as fact, but presented reasonably.
I wish I had more to add to the conversation, because I hate to just write a long upvote but there we have it. Really great read, thanks for taking the time.
Taking out the trash involves lifting something that’s usually heavy, twice. So the person that’s more likely to have the higher upper body strength handling it makes sense.
Which is why, as we all know, doing the laundry is a man's job.
There’s also the mess factor, and a shit ton of people born before the eighties or so and after maybe 1900-ish definitely had a concept that women shouldn’t have to get dirty on a regular basis.
Oh yeah, that's why changing baby's diapers is almost always a man's job.
I stuck to the topic of the post and didn't veer off. Anyone wants to start a different branch of the discussion, that's fine. But that's not what the comment I responded to did. They complained that I didn't expand on the topic.
No, the dismissing tone of the message providing this contradiction is the problem.
It does not have the form of simple nuances or counter-arguments. It has the form of an attack on the previous commenter's credibility.
And to be clear, about the core of these comments, form aside.
I do not fully agree with the explanations given, while I recognise the reasonning as sound. I am just pretty sure there were and still are additional contributing factors, especially when not focusing on the USA.
I do agree with thu counter examples. (Again, not with how these were given.)
If we talkin' 'bout olden times and origins of tasks here ~ laundry was originally hand washed and scrubbed on a rack, then hung to dry. Tedious, yes; but also you're doing One Piece of clothing at a time, which isn't heavy at all.
Women did it because it took like half an entire day to do it. It was practically impossible for someone to work full time and also do this job. Washing machines were considered one of the great feminist liberation landmarks in history for a reason.
But once you bought a washing machine for your wife, then it was still their job… right? Not agreeing with it or anything, and it's obviously sexist by modern standards; but that was the logic ~ it was sold as a convenience / gift.
"Tired of your wife wasting all day doing clothes? Buy the thing so she can do other stuff instead! Only $7500 (in modern currency)"
Damn, really makes me appreciate how cheap my current washing machine of $150 was…
Actually, grilling was a marketing thing. Companies realized men were an untapped market for purchasing cooking supplies, but they had to convince men that there was a form of cooking that was ‘manly’ enough for them to do, because when grills were first invented cooking was very, very much ‘woman’s work’ and any man who touched it was ‘weak’ and ‘girly’ and perhaps ‘hen-pecked’.
A grill, which was outdoors (rustic! woodsy! living off the land!), involved fire (manly!), and mostly meat cooking (even more manly!) was basically the solution they found.
Fun fact: this was basically the opposite tactic they took from automatic cars. Everyone loved how easy automatics were to drive. Back then manual gear changes and actual physical steering was hard to do without a lot of upper body strength (and often even with lots of upper body strength). But using physical strength to drive a car was MANLY.
So the ads were basically all like, ‘we know you, a manly man, can handle an manual car. But buy a nice, easy-to-drive automatic for the wife!’ That way guys could save face and claim they were just switching to automatics ‘for the lady’.
Taking out the trash involves lifting something that’s usually heavy, twice. So the person that’s more likely to have the higher upper body strength handling it makes sense.
Massive reach, unless you're regularly throwing out lead.
Nah, you take one of the 30 gallon cans, stick a bag in it, and it can be a tough lift when full. Not so much because of the weight, though a twenty pound weight isn't going to be a surprise. It's the way you have to move to lift the bag out. It relies more on arms and back, so you can't really use your legs properly.
Without a bag, evena 15 gallon can is awkward to lift and walk with. A bigger one is again a more upper body thing.
Besides, I didn't say a woman couldn't get the job done, just that it makes more sense for whoever has the better upper body strength
Is it because the assignment of these jobs dates to that brief time and culture when women were housewives and men worked outside the home? It’s as stereotypical as white picket fence.
I mean, mowing the lawn probably dates back to when you had to use a scythe for that. That was actually quite physically demanding labour.
Bringing out the trash might similarly originate from when trashcans were out of metal and didn't have wheels. I can certainly imagine those being annoying to heave outside when you don't have an excess of core strength...
I cook, he cleans dishes & wipes stuff down. I put away dishes. Daily
I do the gardening, it's because I care and the food garden is for cooking - but my ex (despite his overall inability to work) was an incredible organic gardener and I did not touch the yard. We pay someone to mow and edge.
Husband walks the dog and feeds the pets. Takes out the trash. Daily
He washes the towels and sheets. Weekly.
I clean filters and maintain the appliances. Once in a while.
He cleans the windows and washes the cars. Once in a while.
I handle the finances, mostly. I am tech support also. He plans long term and plans vacations for us.
We both work demanding jobs, and have someone come in biweekly to do the real house cleaning.
Basically we both are doing half of what we were before.
Well I don't think people should 'go on' about it, and communication between partners is the key to figure out which jobs each like (or dislike least) so as to make things fair and easiest for both; but, there are on average differences between men and women's brains so patterns based on sex will emerge. It's why there are trans people - you can't be the 'wrong' gendered brain for your body if there is no difference.
tell that to the trans people who say shit to me like 'it's a bug and your a man so you have to kill it for me'.
I don't even really identify as a 'man' btw, but yet it's still forced on me regardless of whether I want it to be or not.
And if I argue that point, they are not going to listen or concede, they are just going to tell me I'm a piece of shit.
You and I can argue all we want about our gender, but doesn't mean people who aren't use give a shit about it. They are just going to go with the default of 'you look like x so you get treated like x'
Well as a cis man, I usually call my cis wife to deal with bugs because I'm squeamish about bugs and she isn't! I would say the point is that you do what's good for you. And if you and your partner can't figure out a good balance especially if they're sexist assoles, trans or otherwise, then you shouldn't be partners. And if you have the energy, call out people for being sexist whether they're trans or not; but otherwise just ignore them and don't hang around them voluntarily. You don't need that many friends; it's more important that your friends aren't assholes.
I'd rather just be alone on both fronts. Life is too short to be miserable. When I'm alone nobody lecture me about my gender and I have yet to ever meet a person who doesn't do that. Honestly the conservative trad people I have met lecture me less about it than all the progressive liberals, who are utterly obsessed with policing everyone's gender identity now. Even to the point now where I will no longer hang out in public spaces anymore because I'm sick of some random insane person approaching me looking to start a fight about how I look and their perception of me as a Trump supporter based on my face/body shape or whatever nonsense they believe and their insane entitled sense of 'protecting' themselves from 'people like you'. Apparently my physical existence in public space, quieting minding my own business reading a book, is now 'harassment', or so I have been repeatedly told the past few years.
You know who doesn't care about my gender? My dog and my cat. Weird how that works.
I was raised in Missouri and lived there until 2015. Most of my family and friends shared chores including dishes and laundry between the husband wife and kids depending on age and availability.
52 replies
That's one take, sure.
But look at the examples again.
Taking out the trash involves lifting something that's usually heavy, twice. So the person that's more likely to have the higher upper body strength handling it makes sense.
Mowing vs gardening, you have a similar difference; particularly looking back at pre-powered mowers. Again, the person with the advantage of muscle mass is going to have less trouble doing it.
Cooking inside vs grilling? A lot less sensible. I really think that comes down to meat and fire rather than any practical reasons.
If you also look at the division of labor for those tasks through the lens of when they became stereotypes, you might notice that trash and mowing are very much a part of suburban life compared to rural or urban. The era when that became the way things work here in the US (where the stereotypes are mostly from) was one where the wife was at home and the man out at a job. Not universally so, but close enough.
The division of mowing and trash is also split along the lines of what needs doing steadily vs what needs doing irregularly, but takes more time to do at once. In a lifestyle where one partner has less day time available at home, them handling tasks on weekends and/or at end of day makes more sense as well.
The whole post war era here in the US shifted home dynamics into that kind of weird dichotomy. Not that the idea of women's work vs men's wasn't a thing everywhere, or that it only existed during that time. It's about this type of home tasks being split up by the standards of the lifestyle people thought they should have.
There's also the mess factor, and a shit ton of people born before the eighties or so and after maybe 1900-ish definitely had a concept that women shouldn't have to get dirty on a regular basis. Gardening in the suburban sense is a vastly different one than in the rural sense. In a suburban area, you're either talking flowers and decorative plants, or a small vegetable/"victory" garden. Neither of which is as messy or as large as an acre of crops to handle.
Mowing is a high sweat, messy job. Grilling compared to indoors cooking is a tad messier by virtue of the soot and ash.
I kid you not, doing home health back when the generation before the baby boom was solidly into old age, the more suburban a family was, the more likely they were to have the assumption that women shouldn't have to deal with the more physical, messier home maintenance jobs. Baby boomers carried it over for sure, but for them or was often that they grew up with that paradigm and didn't question it until later. I had way less gen-x patients that had a sustained home paradigm, so there's less direct observation for that, and next to zero for millennials.
I'm not saying it was right. I'm not judging it one way or another, not really; people can have whatever home arrangements they want, ain't none of my business. I'm just saying that it isn't as single facet as the screen shot tries to make it. It is/was a product of a full cultural shift and it wasn't as arbitrary as that makes it out to be.
I just want to recognize a really interesting, high effort comment. I’ve been thinking a lot about this stuff as I deconstruct my upbringing and this comment was really edifying for what it is: a thoughtful take, not portrayed as fact, but presented reasonably.
I wish I had more to add to the conversation, because I hate to just write a long upvote but there we have it. Really great read, thanks for taking the time.
Which is why, as we all know, doing the laundry is a man's job.
Oh yeah, that's why changing baby's diapers is almost always a man's job.
The examples in the post didn't include those, so neither did I. Don't read into it beyond the examples used
I stuck to the topic of the post and didn't veer off. Anyone wants to start a different branch of the discussion, that's fine. But that's not what the comment I responded to did. They complained that I didn't expand on the topic.
Ohhh providing examples that conflict with the narrative is complaining. Got it
No, the dismissing tone of the message providing this contradiction is the problem. It does not have the form of simple nuances or counter-arguments. It has the form of an attack on the previous commenter's credibility.
And to be clear, about the core of these comments, form aside. I do not fully agree with the explanations given, while I recognise the reasonning as sound. I am just pretty sure there were and still are additional contributing factors, especially when not focusing on the USA. I do agree with thu counter examples. (Again, not with how these were given.)
If counter examples to highlight flaws in blanket statements are an attack to a person's credibility then idk what to tell you.
You're only supposed to load like 8 pounds of clothes at a time - easily into the woman work territory. /s
If we talkin' 'bout olden times and origins of tasks here ~ laundry was originally hand washed and scrubbed on a rack, then hung to dry. Tedious, yes; but also you're doing One Piece of clothing at a time, which isn't heavy at all.
Women did it because it took like half an entire day to do it. It was practically impossible for someone to work full time and also do this job. Washing machines were considered one of the great feminist liberation landmarks in history for a reason.
But once you bought a washing machine for your wife, then it was still their job… right? Not agreeing with it or anything, and it's obviously sexist by modern standards; but that was the logic ~ it was sold as a convenience / gift.
Damn, really makes me appreciate how cheap my current washing machine of $150 was…
That's how we did diapers. The mother handles all the inputs, which is technically more because the baby is growing.
Random advertisement for cloth diapers, it's less work than it sounds and saves crazy money.
Actually, grilling was a marketing thing. Companies realized men were an untapped market for purchasing cooking supplies, but they had to convince men that there was a form of cooking that was ‘manly’ enough for them to do, because when grills were first invented cooking was very, very much ‘woman’s work’ and any man who touched it was ‘weak’ and ‘girly’ and perhaps ‘hen-pecked’.
A grill, which was outdoors (rustic! woodsy! living off the land!), involved fire (manly!), and mostly meat cooking (even more manly!) was basically the solution they found.
Oh god this makes way too much sense...
Fun fact: this was basically the opposite tactic they took from automatic cars. Everyone loved how easy automatics were to drive. Back then manual gear changes and actual physical steering was hard to do without a lot of upper body strength (and often even with lots of upper body strength). But using physical strength to drive a car was MANLY.
So the ads were basically all like, ‘we know you, a manly man, can handle an manual car. But buy a nice, easy-to-drive automatic for the wife!’ That way guys could save face and claim they were just switching to automatics ‘for the lady’.
Massive reach, unless you're regularly throwing out lead.
My garbage is always 40 pounds cause I pack it down wait until well after I should have taken it out.
Nah, think of it positively ~ you're optimising the amount of trash per bag. For the planet, of course.
Nah, you take one of the 30 gallon cans, stick a bag in it, and it can be a tough lift when full. Not so much because of the weight, though a twenty pound weight isn't going to be a surprise. It's the way you have to move to lift the bag out. It relies more on arms and back, so you can't really use your legs properly.
Without a bag, evena 15 gallon can is awkward to lift and walk with. A bigger one is again a more upper body thing.
Besides, I didn't say a woman couldn't get the job done, just that it makes more sense for whoever has the better upper body strength
My husband grills because I'm guaranteed to burn the shit out of myself
If you go to the toilet beforehand then there will be no shit to burn out of you.
Like and subscribe for more faecal top tips!
Oh my god as a kid when we got the push mower with the extra lever for the wheels, my life was changed
Is it because the assignment of these jobs dates to that brief time and culture when women were housewives and men worked outside the home? It’s as stereotypical as white picket fence.
I mean, mowing the lawn probably dates back to when you had to use a scythe for that. That was actually quite physically demanding labour.
Bringing out the trash might similarly originate from when trashcans were out of metal and didn't have wheels. I can certainly imagine those being annoying to heave outside when you don't have an excess of core strength...
As a straight male... Who still thinks like this?? It couldn't be the majority of us in 2026, could it?
And by "us" you are referring to specific countries right, because it definitely isn't so in all countries.
Shit is progressing real slowly saldly
Some might say it's regressing even
I say it's regressing
Are you in tik tok and instagram? Facebook or Twitter?
Idk about the majority but there's definitely a demographic of people who genuinely think that way.
No, I am on Lemmy for a reason.
Yeah that's why you dont see that stuff
I am so glad my husband was a single dad.
I cook, he cleans dishes & wipes stuff down. I put away dishes. Daily
I do the gardening, it's because I care and the food garden is for cooking - but my ex (despite his overall inability to work) was an incredible organic gardener and I did not touch the yard. We pay someone to mow and edge.
Husband walks the dog and feeds the pets. Takes out the trash. Daily
He washes the towels and sheets. Weekly.
I clean filters and maintain the appliances. Once in a while.
He cleans the windows and washes the cars. Once in a while.
I handle the finances, mostly. I am tech support also. He plans long term and plans vacations for us.
We both work demanding jobs, and have someone come in biweekly to do the real house cleaning.
Basically we both are doing half of what we were before.
I am pretty sure this the image American movies portrayed for decades.
And idiots take it as a blueprint to be the least helpful person in the household.
The whole image fails when the woman is working or the man is a decent person.
I’m not triggered but I don’t know if this sub is useful. I don’t know any straight people who think like this.
Sadly I know plenty.
I live in a iconically progressive highly educate city, and most folks 120% still believe in trad gender roles here.
Even the poly folks here go on about man vs woman jobs.
Well I don't think people should 'go on' about it, and communication between partners is the key to figure out which jobs each like (or dislike least) so as to make things fair and easiest for both; but, there are on average differences between men and women's brains so patterns based on sex will emerge. It's why there are trans people - you can't be the 'wrong' gendered brain for your body if there is no difference.
tell that to the trans people who say shit to me like 'it's a bug and your a man so you have to kill it for me'.
I don't even really identify as a 'man' btw, but yet it's still forced on me regardless of whether I want it to be or not.
And if I argue that point, they are not going to listen or concede, they are just going to tell me I'm a piece of shit.
You and I can argue all we want about our gender, but doesn't mean people who aren't use give a shit about it. They are just going to go with the default of 'you look like x so you get treated like x'
Well as a cis man, I usually call my cis wife to deal with bugs because I'm squeamish about bugs and she isn't! I would say the point is that you do what's good for you. And if you and your partner can't figure out a good balance especially if they're sexist assoles, trans or otherwise, then you shouldn't be partners. And if you have the energy, call out people for being sexist whether they're trans or not; but otherwise just ignore them and don't hang around them voluntarily. You don't need that many friends; it's more important that your friends aren't assholes.
I'd rather just be alone on both fronts. Life is too short to be miserable. When I'm alone nobody lecture me about my gender and I have yet to ever meet a person who doesn't do that. Honestly the conservative trad people I have met lecture me less about it than all the progressive liberals, who are utterly obsessed with policing everyone's gender identity now. Even to the point now where I will no longer hang out in public spaces anymore because I'm sick of some random insane person approaching me looking to start a fight about how I look and their perception of me as a Trump supporter based on my face/body shape or whatever nonsense they believe and their insane entitled sense of 'protecting' themselves from 'people like you'. Apparently my physical existence in public space, quieting minding my own business reading a book, is now 'harassment', or so I have been repeatedly told the past few years.
You know who doesn't care about my gender? My dog and my cat. Weird how that works.
Travel to Missouri
I was raised in Missouri and lived there until 2015. Most of my family and friends shared chores including dishes and laundry between the husband wife and kids depending on age and availability.
Repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor is women's work!
(And also...)
I grill as often as possible, still only once a week.