The city I work at just ended their contract with them. Monday morning I get to send them a demand to remove them from our ROW within 30 days or we'll have them removed and fine them $500/camera per day until they pick them up and pay us our expenses related to the removal.
Our police are also bagging the cameras, including the solar panels (so they'll shut off).
City Council is made of of people who were misled by the "they only read license plates" bullshit. When they realized what they truly are, they decided not to renew the contract. Then a few days ago they took it a step further and decided to suspend it early along with their right-of-way permits.
tl;dr: College told flock to remove the cameras and they refused saying they were within terms of the contract. Any cameras that got bagged were unbagged.
Flock is not the only brand of ALPR (Automatic License Plate Reader). Its the brand/company that is receiving the most negative press, which means other companies providing the same service are quietly sneaking into towns and cities.
If you drive in an area covered by an ALPR-networked camera, your vehicle’s movements may already be in a searchable database. As the tools for building these systems become more widely available, the pressure for clearer rules about who may collect vehicle-location data, on whom, and for how long is unlikely to ea
As always keep reaching out to your local city council to ask where are these cameras being installed, how long is the information being retained, who is accessing these systems, and who is keeping the individuals accessing these systems accountable?
Axon is the maker of Taser, and like 90% of the body cams that departments use. ALPRs are simply the newest of many tools they offer, and adding Axon ALPRs to replace Glock is probably extremely easy since there is a 99.99% chance they already have Axon products, and an existing contract.
It's a good question but given Flock's cooperation with the ICE I don't want to give them benefit of doubt. https://deflock.org/ isn't currently listing the supposed 300,000 nor does it claim they're all flock.
Oh, I don't mean to give them any credit whatsoever. I'm just saying that it's very likely that there is "false information" included this set. That doesn't mean they actually have a significant case, just that the claims may need to be adjusted to the generic "Camera" or "ALPR" rather than "Flock" specifically.
The pretty common one is to have infrared LEDs shining on the plate. Humans can't see the light but cameras can and it blinds them. It's worth noting that it's illegal, and if the police catch you doing it they'll arrest you just for that. I'm not sure how much help that is, but then again, any technique that blocks the cameras from reading your plate is likely considered illegal.
The problem is that they don't just read the plates. They look at everything on the vehicle. Window stickers, license plate frames, cleanliness, scratches/dents, etc. Trying to disguise your plate will just make your vehicle more readily recognizable, and notify authorities that you have something to hide.
I'm pretty sure there are laws that specifically say if you do something to prevent your plate from being read by these devices it's illegal. But it wouldn't matter anyway. They track you based on more than your plate. They even track pedestrians by looking at their clothing and such.
Think thats scary look up gait recognition. I remember reading a book in middle school almost 20 years ago, in the book they used gait recognition because facial recognition was deemed to invasive and was made illegal. Probably based on real life but I never looked into the legality of it. The original Punisher show on Netflix also brought it up, its how the hacker dude finds Frank Castle and kicks off the shows plot.
target has these already in thier security cameras for like a while now. i wouldnt be surprised if target was pioneering the tech gait recognition, tracking movement.
You cannot legally modify your license plate in any way, even if it leaves the number and stickers fully visible. I wonder if you couldn't do something to the area surrounding your license plate though to make the AI detection ignore your car/plates...
53 replies
Woah woah, are you telling me that the surveillants don’t like being surveilled? I’m shocked, absolutely shocked I tell ya
The city I work at just ended their contract with them. Monday morning I get to send them a demand to remove them from our ROW within 30 days or we'll have them removed and fine them $500/camera per day until they pick them up and pay us our expenses related to the removal.
Our police are also bagging the cameras, including the solar panels (so they'll shut off).
your city sounds cool
I mean, they did still allow the cameras to begin with
I'd take someone willing to learn from a mistake over someone who doubles down though
We're assuming they didn't just switch brands.
They did not.
City Council is made of of people who were misled by the "they only read license plates" bullshit. When they realized what they truly are, they decided not to renew the contract. Then a few days ago they took it a step further and decided to suspend it early along with their right-of-way permits.
Might be noteworthy if you missed it: https://lemmy.world/post/53011126
tl;dr: College told flock to remove the cameras and they refused saying they were within terms of the contract. Any cameras that got bagged were unbagged.
I wouldn't go that far. It's an enclave for the mega-rich. I don't live there - literally every household is millionaires or better.
Humble brag
I drive 90 minutes to work. I'm on a city worker salary.
A good city-worker salary - hence the willingness to drive 90 minutes - but nowhere near enough to be a resident.
What’s replacing them?
My money is on Axon
also so they can get a snapshot of all the IP addresses/people signed into google who tried searching the map. which...surprise...where's the map LOL
deflock.org
simply don't use google...
We NEED to Protect the Privacy of
American Citizens!Innocent People!Corporations stealing BILLIONS of Taxpayer Dollars!The nerd in this case being the OSM community
OSM FTW!
EDIT: I do get accused of frequent, excessive, obscure use of initialisms.
Open Street Maps - Our Street Maps, not goog, not apple
Open source _______?
Maptographers.
Thankee
I think it’s actually Open Street Maps. An alternative to to Google and Apple Maps
My town uses the other brand, that might account for some of the difference
Flock is not the only brand of ALPR (Automatic License Plate Reader). Its the brand/company that is receiving the most negative press, which means other companies providing the same service are quietly sneaking into towns and cities.
If you drive in an area covered by an ALPR-networked camera, your vehicle’s movements may already be in a searchable database. As the tools for building these systems become more widely available, the pressure for clearer rules about who may collect vehicle-location data, on whom, and for how long is unlikely to ea
As always keep reaching out to your local city council to ask where are these cameras being installed, how long is the information being retained, who is accessing these systems, and who is keeping the individuals accessing these systems accountable?
The one with all the product placement on The Rookie, Axon? They need to go fuck themselves too.
Product placement? More like just reality.
Axon is the maker of Taser, and like 90% of the body cams that departments use. ALPRs are simply the newest of many tools they offer, and adding Axon ALPRs to replace Glock is probably extremely easy since there is a 99.99% chance they already have Axon products, and an existing contract.
Axon is not new by any means.
So is flock putting them up?
Angie Nixon mentioned this case in South Florida on a recent interview: https://archive.is/my13H
It really opens the door for any other third party to put up cameras and surveil without anyone noticing it.
“If they’re not doing anything wrong”
If the map isn't reporting any false information then they don't have a legal grounds for the removal and this likely violates anti-slap laws.
Flock is a private company with equal rights to everyone else: no more, no less.
Flock isn't the only entity operating security cameras and plate readers. How many non-Flock devices are being reported as Flock units?
It's a good question but given Flock's cooperation with the ICE I don't want to give them benefit of doubt. https://deflock.org/ isn't currently listing the supposed 300,000 nor does it claim they're all flock.
Oh, I don't mean to give them any credit whatsoever. I'm just saying that it's very likely that there is "false information" included this set. That doesn't mean they actually have a significant case, just that the claims may need to be adjusted to the generic "Camera" or "ALPR" rather than "Flock" specifically.
At this point I think flock has become a common name for these types of devices
so has anyone figured out a reasonable way to block plates from being read?
an adhesive layer, a clear coat, a plastic cover with the right spectrum blocking?
You know what? I really like Benn Jordan's YouTube videos. Not sure what made me think of that. Guess I just wanted to share that fact.
also a fan.
The pretty common one is to have infrared LEDs shining on the plate. Humans can't see the light but cameras can and it blinds them. It's worth noting that it's illegal, and if the police catch you doing it they'll arrest you just for that. I'm not sure how much help that is, but then again, any technique that blocks the cameras from reading your plate is likely considered illegal.
The problem is that they don't just read the plates. They look at everything on the vehicle. Window stickers, license plate frames, cleanliness, scratches/dents, etc. Trying to disguise your plate will just make your vehicle more readily recognizable, and notify authorities that you have something to hide.
Car wrap covered with SQL injections
I'm pretty sure there are laws that specifically say if you do something to prevent your plate from being read by these devices it's illegal. But it wouldn't matter anyway. They track you based on more than your plate. They even track pedestrians by looking at their clothing and such.
Think thats scary look up gait recognition. I remember reading a book in middle school almost 20 years ago, in the book they used gait recognition because facial recognition was deemed to invasive and was made illegal. Probably based on real life but I never looked into the legality of it. The original Punisher show on Netflix also brought it up, its how the hacker dude finds Frank Castle and kicks off the shows plot.
Yeah but that's easier to fake just put a rock in your shoe
Is this actually true? It feels like at most you get 3 extra gaits (left, right & both shoes)
different rocks
target has these already in thier security cameras for like a while now. i wouldnt be surprised if target was pioneering the tech gait recognition, tracking movement.
James Bond style license plate flipper.
Tho I'd prefer the unreasonable EMP gun to disable the cameras. Someone get Q in here.
You cannot legally modify your license plate in any way, even if it leaves the number and stickers fully visible. I wonder if you couldn't do something to the area surrounding your license plate though to make the AI detection ignore your car/plates...
Infrared lights around the plate doesn't modify it
Nerd hero
40% of the truth. Flock lies likes Facebook.
I agree with the sentiment, but the deflock map also lists all automated highway tolls as ALPRs too. These aren’t flock based to my knowledge.
There may be “secret” flock installations. But there are also likely other brands and systems included in the 300k.
We are living in a voyeur's dream world