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politics·politics bysavvie

When is the right time to compare US politics to the Nazi era? This expert on Christian nationalism says: now

“Just as Germans who backed Hitler and the Nazi Party after 1933 were fully aware of what they were joining, so Christians who have backed Trump and the MAGA movement a second time know and bear responsibility for what they are now endorsing…

“This dehumanising language, talking about immigrants as vermin, and this racial purity language, like they’re ‘poisoning the blood of our country’. What does that mean? If they’re poisoning the blood, what’s the pure blood? We know where that story goes,” he said.

When is the right time to compare US politics to the Nazi era? This expert on Christian nationalism says: nowhttps://www.theguardian.com/books/2026/oct/03/robert-p-jones-backslide-interviewOpen linkView original on lemmy.zip
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58 replies

That was just fashionably racist. Most of the pillars of Ur-fascism weren’t in the political culture back then and some of them didn’t even exist. Personally, Napoleons France is probably the oldest proto-fascist entity.

5

I would have said earlier, when elon musk threw his heart out to the crowd.

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piefed.zip

Rehashing Nazi propaganda phrases and literally sieg heiling during the innaguration wasn't enough?

119

That second one is wrong, the only ones dumber than his supporters are the people advocating staying home or voting 3rd party to SeNd A mEsSaGe.

I swear, the turkeys are voting for Thanksgiving dinner.....

5

They've been steadily taking the steps since Newt Gingrich's Contract With America, and Rush Limbaugh's smooth Republican recruitment and indoctrination in 1994. I doubt they thought it would be accompanied by such mind-boggling corruption, but ALL of Trump's policies are a 90s Republican's wildest fantasy.

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lemmy.world

Yeah, I'm not surprised our world history classes in the states glazes over the part where Nazi inspiration came from the worst of the worst in our country alone.

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freaglereply
lemmy.ml

Worst of the worst? Thomas Jefferson, worshipped daily on our money, was literally worse than Trump is. FDR, largely considered one of the best by liberals, literally created red lining and put Japanese-looking people into concentration camps and stole their property. You're fooling yourself if you think it was just the worst of the worst.

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AviAdireply
suppo.fi

See this is your problem. You're blaming one person, Jefferson, Trump, FDR... The problem is the American people. They are what creates these people and then execute their vision. The American people are as guilty as these individuals!

11

Exactly, and the type of inspiration the Nazis drew was from the American people directly, not any specific leaders; and objectively speaking we the people were at our very worst morally by refusing to give people rights and our democracy failed to resolve it peacefully. And this other guy will probably just rant about Lincoln killing natives without acknowledging the wider lens on the time. Let's not have a repeated lesson in history, even though we didn't learn it the first time apparently.

8

For thousands of years, humanity has asked the same question: Why are we here? Religion answered early, confidently, and critically without evidence. That confidence became its greatest strength. When answers arrive before questions are fully formed, they harden into tradition, authority, and eventually taboo. From an atheist perspective, religion is not mysterious; it is familiar. It follows well-documented psychological, sociological, and evolutionary patterns. Gods look like people. Moral codes mirror ancient survival needs. Sacred texts reflect the scientific ignorance of their era. This is not an insult it is an observation. If religions were divine revelations, why do they look exactly like human inventions? Religions make the most extreme claims imaginable: An invisible, omniscient being created the universe. This being intervenes in daily life. It listens to prayers. It cares deeply about sexual behaviour and dietary rules. It rewards belief and punishes doubt. Yet not even one of these claims has been independently verified. Contrast this with science. Science makes modest claims, backed by evidence, revised when wrong. Religion does the opposite: maximal claims, minimal evidence, zero revision. Why is belief without evidence praised in religion but rejected everywhere else? Would you board a plane built on faith? Accept a diagnosis based on prayer? Trust a bridge designed by revelation. If faith is a virtue, why is it never used outside religion? Prayer is often defended as personal, harmless, and comforting. But when evaluated, prayer performs no better than chance. Large-scale studies, including the STEP Project found no measurable benefit of intercessory prayer and in some cases, those who knew they were being prayed for had worse outcomes, due to anxiety or pressure If prayer worked: Hospitals would replace ICUs with chapels. Insurance companies would track prayer frequency. Casinos would ban worshippers. Instead, prayer functions psychologically: it creates the feeling of control in an indifferent universe. Comforting? Yes. True? No. Religions claim ownership of morality, yet moral behaviour predates organized religion by tens of thousands of years. Empathy, cooperation, and fairness are evolutionary traits observed in social animals, primates, elephants, dolphins. Sacred texts routinely endorse slavery, genocide, misogyny, child marriage, collective punishment. Believers now reject these practices not because of scripture but despite it. If morality comes from God, why has moral progress required ignoring holy texts? Gods evolve because humans do. Early gods-controlled weather and fertility because humans could not. As science advanced, gods retreated. Lightning → electricity. Disease → germs Earth’s creation → cosmology. This pattern is called the God of the Gaps. Every gap filled by evidence is a god quietly evicted. Why do gods always explain what humans do not yet understand and never what they do? The defining feature of religion is not belief in gods; it is belief protected from questioning. Doubt is framed as sin. Scepticism as arrogance. Evidence as temptation. Any idea that cannot be questioned is not sacred it is fragile. Why would a true god fear honest inquiry? Atheism: Not a Belief, a Conclusion Atheism is not the claim “there is no god.” It is the conclusion that no god has met its burden of proof. This is the same standard used everywhere else in life. The universe does not owe us meaning. Reality does not bend to comfort. Truth does not care what we wish were true. And yet, despite no divine supervision, humans create meaning, ethics, art, love, and progress. If life has value only because a god grants it, what does that say about human worth? If your religion were false, how would you know? Why does faith require belief before evidence? Why do all religions resemble the cultures that invented them? If a god exists, why is it indistinguishable from a natural universe? Is truth defined by comfort or by reality? Religion was humanity’s first attempt to understand the universe. It was a starting point, not a destination. Clinging to ancient explanations in an age of evidence is not humility, it is fear of uncertainty. Atheism does not offer eternal rewards or cosmic surveillance. It offers something more demanding: responsibility. No gods watching. No divine safety net. Just humans accountable to each other. And that is why the idea is so threatening.

12
piefed.social

I’ve been calling the current government the Nazi regime and the people that still support it Nazis for about a year and a half now.

This includes family members sadly, I just call them nazis. They don’t like it but I don’t back down because I’m not wrong.

16

They’re also so fucking stupid or dishonest that their only conception of a Nazi is a German combatant or politician during the 1930s and 1940s.

6
prolereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

You're not alone.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and if that line wasn't passed at some point since January 2025, then you might actually be a piece of shit.

I don't abide Nazis, no matter who they are.

4
aizakkureply
sh.itjust.works

If there are 9 people sitting at a table, and one Nazi sits down. If no one gets up from the table there are now 10 Nazi's sitting at that table.

3
Carrotsreply
quokk.au

It’s funny that you say this now but I was just complaining about the US government today in another thread and you totally shat all over me. Sounds like you’re the MAGAt.

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TrickDacyreply
lemmy.world

This is the kind of thread I wish there was simply a 🍿button I could push to follow it lol

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lemmy.world

We need to stop comparing US politics to Nazis. It's much more accurate and more helpful to compare it to our own Jim Crow past.

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lemmy.zip

Considering Hitler is a personal hero of Trump, we need to keep comparing it.

28
fedia.io

And America's Jim Crow past explicitly inspired Hitler, so it's really one incestuous cycle of fascism.

12

Because all of EuroCentric power expression is fundamentally indistinguishable from what Europeans decry as abberant fascism.

1
lemmy.world

Considering the Nazis got a lot of inspiration from American segregation I stand by what I said.

10

The south should have been fully crushed and fully given to slaves. We should have never tolerated the intolerant and allowed the sociopaths to continue running things.

That’s really probably the problem with the world. Aparently something like 1-4% of humans are sociopaths. And the US has around 3%, but since the US allows businesses to grow and own so much, and control politicians, and since CEOs are like 30% sociopaths, they get an outsized say in our lives and politics.

2

It was many months ago. If he just said now, he's been living under a rock.

8
feddit.uk

The USA is tottering on the edge of dictatorship. We are no longer Democrats or Republicans. We are either patriots fighting the regime or we are complicit in its tyranny. There is no middle ground. Soon, I fear, the regime will openly defy the supreme court. Americans must be mobilized into such a huge wave of anger and disgust that members of the House are compelled to impeach Trump (for the third time) and enough senators are moved to finally convict him. Then this shameful chapter of American history will end.

8

Well put, I don’t see a lot of signs of people ‘fighting’ the regime. I hope this November will bring some needed change but I’m afraid they will cheat the midterms in a such a gross manner it will be devastating

8

And yet so many in vulnerable populations are advocating for paths of actions that will entrench the Nat-Cs in power...

2

We need to stop with the nazi comparison.

We live in different time. This fascist, racist, misogynist oligarchy called the USA is not nazi Germany, it's something much more dangerous that is a threat to the very survival of the specie.

6

A lot of the people that still need to figure out what's going on don't have enough nuance in their worldview. Much of the approach is trying to activate "Nazis = bad" training from their indoctrination childhood.

10

Both we’ve been doing it since the first time this fucker somehow got elected

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lemmy.world

Though what we have definitely rhymes with nazi, there is one massive difference that I think will be the downfall of it all. Hitler brought the German people out of the poverty, Trump is leading us into poverty.

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fedia.io

Hitler brought the German people out of the poverty, Trump is leading us into poverty.

Absolutely not. Hitler happened to be in power during Germany's recovery from the Great Depression, but nothing he did meaningfully pushed that along.

4

"absolutely not" is a bit strong. His military rearmament, massive borrowing, stealing money from and enslaving the Jews did bring the common German up quite fast compared to many other countries recovering from the Great Depression. Of course it wasn't sustainable, but the illusion was there for the German people and that's what really matters for politics...

6

I think it is one of those things that we don't really know until it happens. i.e. sending immagrants into camps. By then it will be too late. So, I don't know if America is truly at a time when we are close to Hitler fascism. But by the time we will know a lot of damage will be done if we are.

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just2lookreply
lemmy.zip

Ummm...they are already sending people to camps. They are already harassing anyone thru want based ok skin color. They have already said they are going to strip citizenship from people they don't like. They have started criminal investigations against political opponents. They are already working to make it impossibke to vote them out. What other signs do you need?

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piefed.social

I got very interested in trying to figure out if MAGA was becoming a Hitler like fascism. Hitler made himself chancellor making it nearly impossible to over throw him. Trump lost to Biden and wasn't president for awhile. Hitler's army openly killed the German soldiers that served the Eastern front. Civilians saw emaciated prisoners being forced to work and march through towns. This hasn't been happening from what I have been seeing. Do I think something very strange is happening? Yes. Is something different happening than when Hitler took Power? Yes. I didn't think I would ever meet Americans who would openly admit that they'd prefer a dictatorship. Our whole country was founded on freedom. Freedom from tyranny. Somehow we hit a point in our lives where Americans are saying they want a dictator.

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just2lookreply
lemmy.zip

Trump and his supporters have been actively undermining elections. Have stated that they plan to try to keep trump in power past this term despite the laws saying he can't be. Trump has built up a paramilitary force that is actively harassing and killing people who act against him (ICE). He is locking up, torturing, and killing people he sees as undesirable. He has been purging the military and government of anyone not loyal to him. Has captured the supreme court, and they have said that anything he does as president is legal.

Trump, MAGA, and the republicans are following the standard fascist playbook. To try to claim anything else is willfully ignorant, and harmful to building any resistance against it.

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piefed.social

Ok, what it seems to boil down to is if things were as bad as you say the U.N. would be interfering. Why isn't the U.N. stepping in to protect human rights. Since you are pointing out this violation to human rights that I was unaware of. I would like to point out this other violation of human rights I can't seem to get many people on board with.

European countries have outlawed spanking have legally redefined parental autonomy to a child's right to protection and non-violent upbringing. Even psychological injuries are not allowed. The law holds parents as authority in education, health, and daily routines. But the law treats the child as an individual citizen with the same basic human rights as an adult. I think America should put this law into force. The law should treat children as individual citizens. Here is some articles I found that show some merit to what I am saying. I don't think spanking should be allowed on children.

According to Whitfield M.D. 80 to 90% of families are dysfunctional. According to https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/spanking-can-pose-long-term-harms-to-children-5-decade-analysis-suggests show As many as 80 percent of parents worldwide spank their children, according to a 2014 UNICEF report. ( sorry I couldn't find a more recent survey of parents who spank)

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2eyke83yz9o It observed that those who had been smacked saw the likelihood of them failing to get five pass grades (A*-C) at GCSE level, including English and Maths, increase by 5.7 percentage points. Smacking children could lead to lower GCSE grades, study suggest

https://theconversation.com/corporal-punishment-of-children-linked-to-lower-school-grades-50497 this study showed that "We found that children who reported experiencing corporal punishment at age eight had on average significantly lower maths scores at age 12 in India, Peru and Vietnam. The size of the negative effect was large."

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain research shows that spanking alters children’s brain response in ways similar to severe maltreatment and increases perception of threats.

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just2lookreply
lemmy.zip

Firstly, the US holds massive sway within the UN. They have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. This offers a veto for any UN action against the US.

To the rest of your message, what the fuck does that have to do with anything being discussed?

3
piefed.social

This all has to do with people abusing human rights. Children's human rights are being violated by parents abusing them. And Human rights are being violated by Trump and how he is abusing the people he doesn't like. Children's human rights matter just as much as the people who are being detained by Trump.

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