Democrats Abandon Trans Voters at Their Peril
Liberals will lie to you and tell you to "just vote in the primary," but in reality they simply don't care about trans rights and do not believe there is ever a right time to challenge transphobic Democrats.
First primary: the transphobes hide their colors so you can't vote against them.
First general election: the snakes reveal their colors, but you can't vote against the traitors because "blue no matter who." They tell you to just vote in the next primary.
Second primary: the same people who tell you now "save it for the primary" shift their tune to "we can't give up an incumbent seat in a purple district!"
Trans people can see through these bad-faith lies. Yet of course, mansplaining trolls will be sure to breathlessly explain "lesser of two evil" math, as if that's not an argument we haven't heard a thousand times and already rejected due to its obvious flaws. There's never a shortage of arrogant cis people who think they know more about trans issues than actual trans people.
Liberals want your votes, not your voices. Be a good little minority and sit down. Shut up. Support the party. You owe the party your support. The party owes you nothing.
EDIT: A few thoughts to address the comment in the thread here:
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You need to get past your team sports approach to politics. I am not advocating voting against Democrats in general. I'm advocating for not voting for the 1% of Democratic candidates that have chosen to become fascist collaborators and adopt Republican positions on trans rights. To trans people, the Democratic party going TERF is a greater danger than the Republican party winning a slim majority in the Senate. The nightmare scenario here is what happened with Labor. Labor has completely fallen to Nazi collaborators. The UK has regressed in trans rights to now be the most transphobic country in Western Europe, and that happened under the rule of a center-left government. The trans people of the UK would have been better off with another term of conservatives than the transphobic labor leaders they elected instead. We don't need to elect more Fettermans who will turn around and vote against the party the first chance they get. So many people in this thread believe, "you have to vote for the Nazi collaborators, otherwise the Nazis will win!"
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On saving democracy: you are vastly underestimating how difficult that task is. You seem to imagine you can just write a bill that just says, "democracy saved," and call it a day. Actually saving democracy is going to require stripping powers from the presidency and dismantling the post-9/11 security state. That requires Democratic leaders of moral strength and conviction. It will take leaders willing to look their constituents in the eye and tell them, "I am going to vote for this bill to dismantle ICE. Yes, that means that occasionally an illegal immigrant is going to murder someone. I'm going to vote for this bill to dismantle the NSA's illegal programs. Yes, that means we may have more terrorist attacks than we would otherwise. It's worth it to save our Republic." Saving democracy requires leaders who are literally willing to vote to kill their fellow Americans. Every power you strip away results in a few more people dying. It's inevitable. And these transphobe Democrats are fundamentally cowards with no inner moral center. They'll follow any poll or vote for any policy they think will get them power. This kind of person is not capable of saving democracy. You can't defeat Nazism by voting in Nazi collaborators, and it's insane to pretend you can.
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Those arguing that trans rights are a minor or insignificant issue? Frankly, if you believe this, you deserve to have your right to vote taken away. If you're not willing to protect the vulnerable among your community, you deserve whatever evil befalls you. Karma's a bitch in that way. We can all go to Hell together if that's the path you choose.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/democrats-abandon-trans-voters-at-their-peril/Open linkView original on lemmy.world
300 replies
2024: "If you accept that the Democrats are fucking over Palestinians and vote for them anyway, then are you going to follow the same logic when they fuck over trans people?"
2026: "If you accept that the Democrats are fucking over trans people and vote for them anyway, then are you going to follow the same logic when they fuck over gay people?"
2028: "If you accept that the Democrats are fucking over gay people and vote for them anyway, then are you going to follow the same logic when they fuck over PoC?"
2030...
This is exactly why you take a stand and nip that shit in the bud. "We will hang together, or we will all hang separately." The moderate fascists want to chip us away, piece-by-piece, dividing and conquering so that our defeat is inevitable.
We have to draw a fucking line and hold that line, come hell or high water. Why would I stand behind someone who will sell me down the river at the drop of a hat, the moment it's politically expedient?
Some people will just never understand this. But they can at least understand that it is what we believe, and that we will not abandon and sell out our comrades simply in the "lesser evil." Whether we face a greater or lesser evil, we must face it united, or all hope is lost. Solidarity is non-negotiable.
if they revoke the allegence to the epstein class and jail them then that is enough for me to vote for them. i do not care which party it is jail the epstein class no matter the cost. the world will be at peace you can fight your culture wars after the main threat is gone and we can move on with our lives your gas lighting us with culture wars is their epstein agenda as always.
But don't you get it , if the Republicans win it will get worse faster. If you elect Democrat the camps they eventually agree too send you to will be so much nicer and dignified.
Well Everytime I bring up.... So enjoy the gulags americucks. YOU FUCKING IDIOTS WILL KILL THOUSANDS OF SCHOOL CHILDREN BEFORE MURDERING PEDOPHILE POLITICIANS. EVIL FUCKS
Well there have been multiple attempts but I don't think target assassinations would help, we need a general strike, but failing that people just refusing to work is probably about as good as it will get. As long as capitalists can still make the line go up they aren't going to care and will continue to support and utilize police forces against the rest of us.
Damn this comment remained up, but when I said basically the same thing on a different post in this community it got deleted within 30 minutes. Maybe the mods are lightening up on what's needed.
Forgive my ignorance if you can, what laws or policies are top priority for trans people? From the linked article and your post I’m not even sure what to focus on for individual candidates.
Before I go to the trouble of writing a long explanation, can you show me what you've researched first on the topic? Don't take it personally, but this kind of comment can easily be sealioning, so I want to see you put in a bit of effort before I do the same.
Letting the Republicans win to...
Checks notes
Yes the only power you have is demanding things for your vote. If they believe you are willing to give your vote regardless of them not meeting your demands, then they will obviously not bother to meet them.
i demand the epstein class all be in jail and no other way i will vote for anything they say. i rather country burn otherwise as the source of burning are the epstein class. thats the fact and truth. anything less is treason. let the culture wars go into the toilet until we can achieve this as the epstein class deflect with culture wars.
Your kind of willingness to throw trans people under the bus was actually directly responsible for Epstein getting away with his crimes. The name you're looking for is Ava Cordero. She was one of Epstein's first victims to come forward. She's a trans woman and one of Epstein's earliest victims.
Her cries were ignored. The newspapers laughed at her. People like you considered the idea of a trans woman being raped to be absolutely hilarious. People like you considered our lives to not be worth protecting. People like you ignored Ava, and people like you allowed Epstein to stay active for another decade.
The attitude you have, that trans issues are an unimportant distraction, directly contributed to all the evil Epstein did. Your beliefs enabled Epstein.
excuse me boys and girls were raped in the epstein files no one cares what gender it is your culture war gas lighting is noted. focus on jailing the criminals
If enough people demanded this then a party would likely step up to the plate. Or even more likely they would lie about it like Trump did last time and then not do it.
Voting for transphobic democrats IS letting Republicans win.
Holy fuck. Are you telling me that trans voters and supporters are not going to vote for a Democrat if they're soft on trans rights? Is that all they're concerned about? That's the number one most important thing to them? Have any of them noticed the much bigger issues at play here? Republicans must be voted out of office and yet some of you apparently aren't that worried about how they're destroying our country because you won't vote for their opposition. It's hard to be principled when you're fighting an unprincipled opponent.
No. I'm not saying don't vote for Democrats. All a lot of mouth breathers in this comment section can't seem to understand that. The point is to not vote for the 1% of Democrats that turn against trans people. Those are the ones you should vote against. In fact, those are the same people who will vote against any bill to save democracy. They believe in nothing but power. You can't rely on such cowards to pass unpopular laws that could actually save democracy.
I'm saying "don't vote for more Fettermans," while you're over here cheering on the Fetterman caucus.
Republican playbook for years: Make the Dems fight each other over social issues.
seems the trans community dont care about the nation one iota and just wants little trickets to appease them. they are not friends of the world or the nation it means. it wasn't going to be an issue regardless idk what the heck they are complaining about little titles that mean nothing at all.
If you don't care enough about my existence to protect my rights, I sure as hell don't give a fuck if you effectively lose your right to vote. Honestly, you don't deserve it at that point.
you never protected my rights anyway. life saving care is more important than your trans gender affirming care tbh.
very simple then make it universal basic income and give everyone cash in bank account based on inflation as well based on rent. say its 2000 now since inflation 24000 per year free. you do what you want if you want to blow it all on gender care thats on you. no social security no medicare no medicaid.
what would you do with 24000 with no strings. also if you want more for your group or yourself only you are just being greedy and selfish. eg part of the evil class as expected
This piece is yet another attempt to break up the Left, which is exactly how the Right keeps winning. Which is much worse, fyi. Kinda obviously at this point.
You'll never have perfection. Ever. Not ever. Literally never. We never have. We never will. Get over it and look at the bigger picture. Trans people are far worse off under Republican leadership than Democrat.
Their power is unity. Copy it and start winning, or keep this bullshit up and keep losing. Which btw is absolutely worse for trans people. And everyone except the rich...
Liberals are not left, they are right wing.
Liberals aren't really on the left.
Unity is when you throw your own base under the bus.
Cool cool cool. So this means we shouldn't vote for them.
My trans friends on the Kansas side of the border had their drivers licenses pulled because the veto-proof Republican Supermajority in one night made all drivers licenses that had gender not of birth null with no warning and that's still currently being fought in the courts. Same time they put through a bathroom bill that has a bounty on it for people to call in where someone will have to go to court to prove themselves.
Somehow frankly shocked our Republican supermajority in MO hasn't done the same, but they're busy trying to take away our ability to pass laws because we managed to keep abortion legal. Oh... wait... they're using trans people as the way to entice people to vote the outlawing of abortion again this election.
But we shouldn't let the dems win.
I think a lot of yall saying this don't live in red states where the water is already boiling. Best of luck to you, we're trying our hardest to survive over here.
And how will electing transphobic Democrats help with this issue? They'll just vote with the Republicans to pass more transphobic laws.
The point is not "Democrats bad." The point is "transphobe Democrats are bad." A transphobic Democrat is just a Republican dressed in blue.
I live in Missouri (the St. Charles area) and I don't support either of these bastards. Missouri is filled with morons though so we're better off getting air striked than ever seeing any positive change. Put an actual socialist in charge of this state instead of Dems that literally put in their campaign ads that they're conservatives who think the party went too far so they're running as Democrats.
You have electoral near-sightedness.
That's what got the Republicans put in place. There are some political stances that need to be put on the shelf in order to save the country or at least get it to a gliding crash.
No. What got Republicans in place was Democrats abandoning core parts of their base in order to pander to imaginary Republican defectors. That's what cost Kamala the election. Because vote scolding doesn't actually get people to vote. Explaining lesser evil theory like a broken record doesn't get people to vote. People are simply tired of voting for politicians that betray them. I'm sorry, but you aren't owed anyone's vote. If you're willing to sacrifice minority groups to fascists, you deserve whatever the fascists will do to you in turn.
Our choices are dogshit and exploding dogshit. votes for dogshit again sigh
Sorry, I refuse to vote for Nazi collaborators. I reject your Nazi apologetics.
I mean... what else is there to say?
That you don't care what happens to the Trans people that I know and care about?
I'm pretty sure a poll of U.S. voters is a poor indicator of what I, an European, think about trans issues but I would love to hear your theory about how those things are connected.
Gotta love the schordinger leftist, simultaneously responsible for the Dems loosing and not significant enough for Dems to pander to.
You know what. You're right. Vote red. Pick a Republican. That will teach the Democrats to notice trans people. Or don't vote, that will surely help.
At the risk of sounding extremely dismissive, because it is, the world is literally on fire and you might not get to win your issue of choice in the next 5 or even 10 elections. Of course every person regardless of majority of minority status deserves to have their basic rights met and to be treated with a modicum of decency and acceptance. Of course. When it comes to elections though, R will come together for any one of no abortion, more guns, less taxes, go church!
The far left doesn't win in the US, and won't win, because, son of a bitch, there is not enough fundamental support for Mediterranean furry vegans with one eye who use glow in the dark blowy wheelchairs. And wouldnt you know it, all 900 trans people on Lemmy and their vegan allies cannot storm the palace by themselves no matter how hard you rage post.
Yes it sucks. Conservatives are a bloc. The left is not, and each of the 347 extreme minorities can't play nice together unless their issue is at the forefront which makes a fundamentally impossible purity test for every candidate. Fuck people who are transphobic and good on people who are good allies, but there just isn't a competitive counter block because the left isn't full of group-thinking neanderthals.
I understand that you are mad, but you can't win shit with 10 people. So do you want the lesser evil or would you rather deal with the obviously worse door number two?
Your last paragraph is functionally right. You can make your own choice and it sucks no matter what you do. Nobody is winning here. That's how it is. Fuck.
The right is full of brainwashable morons and the left is all full of vibrant and unique non-teaming, purity testing assholes with stupid long Linux socks.
If our numbers are small enough for our issues to not matter, then stop vote-scolding us for how we chose to vote. With one breath you say our numbers are too small to make our issues a purity test for the party. With the next you say it's our duty to support the party.
Liberals tell minorities our issues are too minor to worry about and then blame us when we take them at their word and say, "well, I guess you don't need our votes anyway."
You don't speak for trans people. You speak for you (and for republicans it sure seems like). Stay in your lane. I'm also trans and everyone, including trans people, that don't work to keep republicans out of power next month are not allies and may as well be MAGA. Right now you're putting yourself on that list.
I speak for most of the trans people and allies I know in real life. The general consensus is that it's perfectly fine to not vote for transphobic democrats. The point is not to vote against Democrats in general, but just the tiny minority that reject trans rights. Nuance matters, which the troll is this comment thread can't seem to understand.
If that's what you wanna tell yourself but the truth is a protest vote is a vote for the winner.
"You have to vote for the Nazi collaborators, otherwise the Nazis will win!"
So much for nuance mattering huh? That didn't take much poking either. Nice to see your true colors shining through woody.
The vote-scolding is almost never towards trans people, it's towards people who say the dems aren't doing enough and don't vote, and let literal fascism win instead. The message is towards the people who aren't viscerally affected who still didn't vote or voted 3rd party, and their vote DID matter in this super close election to prevent literal fascism.
I'm not talking about you at all when it comes to voting. I have said vote how you want. You need my vote and that's the whole point of this post isnt it? Let's all hold Dems accountable? By all means let's do hold Dems to account, but I intend to see it happen at every primary all the way down the ballot, grass roots style not by spitting on the least worst option. Hell, you can run yourself!
But when push comes to shove, I know hundreds of people who get fucked by the country headed right and I know 4 trans people who get hurt either way and it sucks. Considering that picture, vote for fucking Yoda who gives a shit? The fate of the world is not hinging on the angry trans vote, but it might hinge on people who would like to buy 10 years to install some candidates that don't suck.
I'm in for "whatever is the best possible thing we can get right now", but if you threaten to take your ball and go home where your dad beats you, then ok, cool power move.
You are an awful person and I hope you experience half of the pain we do, you bootlicking piece of human trash.
There is a trans genocide happening in the US, telling us to suck it up while we die, while we are killed is so fucking awful.
It's really amazing how you expect absolutely nothing from the democratic party, how you paint basic support for the rights of trans people as "far left" and how you then expect us to still support you.
Clearly we should let the republicans take power, that will definitely help out the trans people suffering, right? Because that's your only other outcome. But if you're cool with that, by all means, send that message straight into your own foot.
Says the person implicitly pushing for an outcome that by definition makes the problem worse.
I fear for my trans partners and friends because of short-sighted people like you who are so focused on the cut the Democrats give you that you're willing to sever an artery to show them how much you hate them.
I wish the best for you, even while you advocate for more pain for yourself and those like you.
You don't have to support anybody. Do what you want.
Trump and the right are burning everything down right here, right now, not just you. Im not picking them or not voting to teach dems a lesson. Let's be really clear: I hate what is happening to trans people, and people of color, and gay people, and Muslims, and Jews who are not aligned with the state of Israel. Not a single one of those hills is one I would die on if it meant more trump.
So call me what you want, sir/madam/xer, but weighing any group against wholesale collapse, I'm choosing the lesser evil. I will campaign and vote in the primaries to go as far left as we can get, but I'm not forsaking the only non far right party for any single group that is smaller than literally everyone. The math doesn't make any sense.
and that fucking "stupid socks" comment clearly show you have no fucking idea whats going on and there is no reason for me to engage with you.
They could put us in camps and you'd be like "welp, at least the inflation is under control! Thank you DNC!"
Good. Don't. You can't seem to do it maturely anyway.
Actually, the only way to engage maturely is when you disregard several genocides to epically own drumpf.
So, what's your plan then?
Moderatecide
How much of Gaza, pray tell, did the people heroically save by not voting for a genocidal Democrat in 2024?
If someone is going to poke you in the eye, your best bet is obviously to let them break your fingers too.
Definitely stay home and put your balls/nipples in a mousetrap in november, that will save everyone.
Nah. I choose collapse. We can all go to Hell together if you're willing to throw us under the bus.
As a trans person from Europe that has to deal with the consequences of you electing the orange turd
Go fuck yourself. Other people don't deserve to suffer for your stupidity.
Throw trans people under the bus (reality: support trans people but not enough) or literal fascism are your 2 choices. Since option #1 is never acceptable ever we will just go with fascism forever always as they do state-sponsored anti trans propaganda I suppose. Enjoy being sent to camps under fascism and not receiving gender affirming care instead of not being able to play in sports for the same gender. Both sides ig. Most mainstream democrats have stated explicit support for trans people, it's just not enough apparently.
Your option kills all the trans people. Congratulations.
You're the one telling people to vote for Nazi collaborators.
And you're telling people how to get the nazis elected.
There is no difference between a Nazi and a Nazi collaborator.
Nah, throwing you under the bus would be voting republican.
But you do you. Surely you care about the suffering of others, hopefully that care is about reducing it, but I doubt it.
“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage” - Barack Obama, 2008
The same Barack Obama that helped achieve the following during his time as President of the United States:
Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act adding perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity and disability to the existing hate crime law.
Lifted the ban on travel to the United States by those infected with HIV
Signed into law the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010
Under his presidency, the Pentagon ended the policy that barred transgender people from serving openly in the military.
I was certainly disappointed when I heard him say what he said, but I also could read between the lines. I was disappointed it took him so long to finally become a vocal advocate of marriage equality (thank you Joe Biden for opening your big mouth, I mean this sincerely), but I none-the-less voted for him and in the end I am so glad he was in that office instead of McCain or Romney.
Can we please not fall for the bait. Look at not only their actions but also the situation they are in. Yes, Bill Clinton signed DOMA into law, but it also passed with veto-proof majorities, making a vote against it only performative. Yes, Clinton instituted Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, but this was a time when homophobia was absolutely ingrained throughout the US. My own parents said some pretty horrible things about queer people, and now they are (mostly) accepting of the multiple queer people we have in our family.
If you’re going to be upset at anyone, be upset at your family, friends and neighbors not doing shit (even I could be doing more). Supporting trans rights arguably is less risk to us than someone vying for political office who could end up extending protections for trans people. It took a wave of challenging conversations within families as well as increased positive visibility in the media (and arguably the passing on of a generation) to get to a situation where politicians could openly support any kind of queer family without facing immense backlash.
What good politicians do is say something that appeals to the masses, while dogwhistling support for the thing their constituency wants. I think generally dems have been doing this, but somehow "I think trans people absolutely need medically necessary care" is not clear enough, when almost every state has included gender affirming care as medically necessary.
"chat gippidy, tell me how to read between the lines."
One loss made Israel toxic enough for few democrats reject AIPAC endorsement or money. Few more losses might give us the lesser of the two evils. A representative democrat party or no US.
You have a choice of two lunches.
Stale bread and water OR a steaming pile of rancid horse dung marinated in cow urine and e-thot vomit.
You have electoral near-sightedness and the patience of a child.
How many elections in a row do you have to do this before it works? Ive been hearing this same fucking moronic argument since Darfur 2004 and surely it was alive before then. Wouldn't you know it, no appreciable change in candidates. You gotta go DO SOMETHING but that's no reason not to also vote like you've got a brain in your head.
Edit:
Now hold on. I have now read some of your other comments and you're suggesting a targeted approach. For you and those who are specifically affected, I DO think that is a sane approach outside of the presidency. There definitely are people though who make the same argument you are making, but instead mean "no one should vote for any Democrat" and that is, to quote myself above, fucking moronic.
I'm sorry for being so acerbic, but we are seeing the same argument in different clothes for climate, for gay rights, for conservation, for AI, and it is patiently intentional for sowing division.
My take has been: Vote for what's right in the primaries. Vote for what's practical in the general. Rinse & repeat. It's either that, or give us some sort of ranking option so we can do some semblance of risk mitigation between the two corporate parties.
I voted for candidates in the primary. And for the most part, I'll sadly be voting against the more-bad candidates in the general to ensure the greatest likelihood of defeat for the more-bad candidates that I can accomplish with my one little vote.
Edit to add: the timing of the article smells weird to me, as if to suppress Democratic turnout in November.
i solved it
trans voters abandon democrats at their peril
satisfying
Most of Woody's posts and comments are trying to discourage people from voting for democrats. I'm not sure which R they work for but they're definitely helping maga. It's their whole profile.
Thanks, it was my first encounter. I think I fixed the glitch now.
How's that working out for you?
Suppressing turnout is always the point. Telling you the gov't can't fix things and that you should check the fuck out is the point. The status quo is what they want*, its the game they have rigged and control. If voting didnt matter they wouldnt put so much effort in keeping people from doing it or convincing you to stay home.
The dems are 99% ass, but the GOP would imprison trans people as groomers for taking a dump in the girls room. Its not even close and I'm tired of people's suggesting staying at home will get them better choices next time.
Can always count on there being a cis person that thinks they know trans issues better than actual trans people.
Remember, trans people are apparently numerous enough to owe our votes to Democrats, but we're not numerous enough to have our issues be included as basic litmus tests of party candidate eligibility.
Maybe you should have some humility and stop acting like minorities owe you anything after you betray them.
You don't represent all of us, slow your role. Jesus Christ can we at least keep the actual real fascists out of office while working on making things better at the same time?
Why didn't the "working on making things better" start in 2020? We could've kept actual fascists out of power, if we'd started then, instead of breathing a sigh of relief and acting like everything was fixed forever.
Why are you commenting about things you clearly don't know anything about?
Well, if it's so obvious, answer the question.
Because you're JAQ-ing off in bad faith. The question is bad faith. If you were politically engaged you'd be aware of everything done during the Biden administration to correct republican destruction, but you're not, because you're here in bad faith.
I don't know about you but I don't have a time machine. I'm stuck in the present timeline. If you've got a way back to try and fix this mess, believe me when I say try it and don't worry of it destroys the current timeline.
Even though I recognized the trajectory toward authoritarianism back in 1996 with Pres. Clinton's Third Way triangulation, and have been saying, guys, we need to start making things better sooner rather than later since then, the past is indeed the past. So, what's the plan? What are we doing beyond "vote blue" right now to ensure that we don't have to vote for anti-trans Democrats next time, too?
I love this question, because the answer can be so many things depending on your set, setting, and availability. Engage in local politics and community support.
Show up for meetings and listen. Share your thoughts and opinions as you become informed or find you have questions. Talk to your friends and neighbors. Join a local committee. Run for a local office or go further if that's your path.
Get acquainted with your local town office, rec center, senior center, etc. Start volunteering. Serve meals, maybe deliver some. Support a food bank - donations, pickup from local business donors. Promote Progressive voices that are supporting workers' and people's rights. Support people doing everything described in the previous paragraph.
Gogol Bordello said it first: Think global, act local. Installing a president with true progressive values isn't a path to success unless there is wider congressional support, so start developing grass roots support or support those that are developing such.
Conservatives have spent 50+ years slowly and steadily doing this and fucking over progressive voices all along the way with exuberant neoliberal support on embracing corporate money and influence. It's a long road back. We need to stop accelerating towards stupidity and it's the right wing authoritarian cultists that have their foot stuck on the gas pedal so keeping them out of power would be super neato as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not claiming the trans folk owe the dems shit. I am say the least I can do for marginalized groups is hold my nose and vote for the people who currently aren't executing policy to harm those groups.
Voting for a third party?! Tsk-tsk!
Hol'up...
Where did you get the idea that "trans people are numerous enough"? Numerous in what, exactly? To swing an election?
I'm so confused by all the stuff you're posting around here. It seems you are VERY misinformed about your position in society as a member of a group, and how that affects US elections at large.
I'm not saying to hold back on your swings or anything, but the crazy vitriol you're spouting off just seems to say you're making some wild assumptions that will not play out...
It comes from every time a trans person says they will never support a Democrat that stands against them, BlueMAGA comes out yelling at them saying they're the reason Harris lost and will be blamed when any other Dem loses.
The entire "Blue MAGA" is literally manufactured russian republican propaganda. It's not a real thing, it's a psy-op to convince idiots to let the republicans win. And you are falling for it hard.
No it comes from the toxic positivity of libs telling everyone to support their destructive party over the other destructive party using the same talking points as MAGA, just with a couple words changed.
It's literally both sides rebranded. It's a psy op and it's working on people like you.
If trans people are so minor that we can't affect elections, why are you complaining about trans people withholding our votes?
First: I'm not "complaining about trans people" in any way. I'm pointing out the flaw in your logic, and attempting to understand what mechanism you believe you are attempting to enact here because it's no making sense.
Second: trying to contort other people's comments to turn yourself into a victim over falsehoods is the weakest of weak discourse, and makes you seem like an unserious person. I hope you don't engage with people in person like that, because it's a fast track to being ignored.
This is part of a larger conversation.
I am not assuming that trans people are numerous enough to affect elections. I'm simply taking that as a given based on all the responses I've received in this and similar threads. People clearly believe that trans people are numerous enough for our votes to matter, but also somehow so small in number that our issues can be ignored.
You're doing the Democrat version of the old Nazi trope that Jews were both incredibly weak and subhuman, while also a secret conspiracy that controlled the world. The Nazis simultaneously believed that Jews were inferior subhumans, literally less-evolved and less-intelligent than ordinary Germans AND that Jews were powerful and smart enough to secretly run the whole world.
You believe a similar thing about trans people. Our numbers are small enough that our issues can't be litmus tests for the party. (No one would tell black democrats that they have to support a democrat that is a member of the KKK. Anti-black racism is treated as a red line by the whole party. No one says we have to support klan members because "blue no matter who." Trans issues aren't treated with the same seriousness by folks like you.) Our numbers are small enough that our issues can be dismissed as trivial and unimportant. You'll dismiss the needs of trans people, and then with the very next breath say that we owe our votes to the Democratic party. Us not voting for Democrats risk them losing the election.
You believe in Schrodinger's trans person: small enough in number to ignore, but not so small that we can't be blamed for an election loss.
Again...twisting someone's words into something completely different than what was said to make whatever point you feel you need to make. Unserious.
All I asked was for clarification about HOW you imagine this mechanism of withholding votes in the numbers you're talking about. It's math, not attacking your social standing or worth.
Go and read about people who made serious inroads for their social causes like Harvey Milk or Barbara Gittings. That's how you get to real social change. Hell, look at Sarah McBride. She sees the social systems for what they are, and is working inside them to affect the changes she wants to happen. Doing this argumentative bluster thing that you're doing and just attacking people, or threatening to abstain from the existing voting system is going to do shit. That's just the reality of it.
That doesn’t really work unless the candidate is honest in the primary. So you vote for someone thinking they’re one way and they double cross you.
Yes this is also about Fetterman
Bottom line: Everything sucks and will forever. Because people suck and always will.
Vote out of spite.
Ranking is a fucking lie. You don't have a femocracy until you have a representative share instead of a winner takes all. You don't have a democracy if a vote on one state is worth more than others. You dont have a democracy until you get rid of gerrymandering.
The timing of comments like this is odd to me. People always start throwing around conspiracies like this just before elections. You must be a Russian bot.
That definitely seems like the most likely answer. Good luck out there!
man if pro pally or trans folks think the dems have abandoned them, they need to fucking check themselves
anti dem propoganda like this is bullshit
Are you either?
are you crazy?
You can always count on two things when a trans person points out how trans people are being taken for a ride by the democrats:
There will be a cis person there to haughtily explain "lesser of evil" math, as if you're just a stupid tr#nny who is too dumb to understand it, rather than someone who is fully aware of the argument and recognizes that it's complete bullshit.
There will be a cis person there calling the trans person a foreign agent or Republican plant. Remember, liberals want your vote, not your voice.
Thank you for proving me right.
Lol you are so wildly off base it's actually hilarious
Edit: I'm trans, ya big ole goofball
Woody's entire account is just trying to get people not to vote for dems. The trans angle is new to me though.
It's realpolitiks and it's nasty but frankly speaking not much can be done within the current political system and the actions that can be done without said system most folks don't have the taste for and the police state makes it pretty damned hard to enact and get away with it. Personally I wish we could just murder and string up every politically powerful transphobe and transphobe enabler but that's how you suicide by cop as of right now and would be politically damaging.
It's a well known issue amongst those of us who are more traditional rednecks, sure you could just shoot the anti-worker pissrag but that by itself is ineffective unless you keep doing it and with modern forensics and surveillance the old ways simply are ineffective.
But I'll also admit that my baseline reaction to any authoritarians is basically to just want to kill them. Can't really see past that but in this case I can't really theorize how to get politicians to just shut the fuck up beyond putting a knife to their throat and asking about their life insurance policy so FUBAR.
So glad the upvote/downvote ratio trends toward rational thought on this one. There is hope for lemmy after all.
this shit was ridiculous
Trans people are learning why many of us despise the Democratic party.
They've betrayed you, eh? First time?
If anything, it looks like you made it, you're now just like everybody else in the "big tent"
Remember what Democrats did to labor? Look at it. LOOK AT LABOR NOW
because the gop was going to ever help labor trans folks or gaza?
look, you can change the dems. stop fucking around with centerists and push bernie and aoc types. you will never be able to afford to outspend big money and influence the gop.
oh, I get it, you could vote for jill stein, which is basically voting for trump again?
worked great for gaza
Everything i said is 100% true regardless. Labor was the top issue for Democrats only as long as union members could bribe them more than Amazon.
I'm voting D this election, but yeah. Democrats are being paid by the same people as Republicans, even if you pretend that they're not. This is the situation we are in, and voting will not get you out of it. I'm voting anyway, I take it you are too... but it won't change what fuels our parties, which is about a billion dollars per election cycle.
If you want Democrats to stand for GAZA, tell GAZA they're going to have to pony up a lot more cash, at least as much as Israel
If you want Democrats to stand for trans, come up with few hundred million, and VIOLA! you have a friend (for an election cycle, at least. If you're lucky, and nobody "donates" more)
Citizens United works in mysterious ways
the rich have been fucking labor far longer than Amazon has been around.
you're not wrong about the money, or human rights, or gaza, but also, you'll always have more support from ideologically motivated people on the left than you'll find on the right.
a vote for Jill Stein was a vote against Trump.
no it wasn't. it was a vote that gave trump the win. literally how we ended up here.
it wasn't counted for Trump.
if she had won, you would be praising her as a visionary over Hilary or kamala. and if all the votes for Hillary has gone to get, she would have won.
And if my aunt had wheels she'd be a bike.
The green party is a spoiler, and always has been, that only exists to split the vote and let the republicans win. That's literally how electoral politics works in fptp.
there is no reason to believe people who voted for Greens would have voted for Democrats.
Democrats don't own all votes that don't go to Republicans. they must earn them. vote splitting is a myth that serves the hegemony.
You mean aside from the constant drum beat that we should all vote for Joke Stein to send a message to the Democrats every 4 years?
Yeah, that's what people who don't understand electoral politics and constantly push spoilers always tell me. Too bad I have a functioning brain that understands math.
There are only two parties that have a snowballs chance in hell of winning, but keep pretending like letting the Republicans win won't hurt us all much more. Vote for whomever you want, but stop lying to yourself.
If she had won, it would have been a full term of getting obstructed by both the Democrats and Republicans, because her inexperienced party has 0 representation in the House and the Senate.
Fairy tale land thinking she would make any difference as the President without first having green party reps in lower government.
Thankfully most of us weren't dumb enough to vote for that Russian stooge.
Funny how you suggest that the tens of millions of Clinton voters are the ones who should change their votes rather than the ~1.5 million who voted for the fourth place finisher.
she was investigated by the senate for any russian connections, and none were found.
At this point, I’m still with the vote blue crowd. We’re in serious damage control and voting for our lives. When the option is this vs. Nazi authoritarianism. You vote for this!
In other words, If the chemo sucks, we’ll deal with it to survive the cancer. Because then we can live and fight another day. Give in and opt-out, and you’ve no place to complain that the cancer is killing you.
Vote like lives depend on it- because they do. We can fix this kind of stupid, we CANNOT fix MAGA stupid.
VOTE.
Trans people might not survive the "chemo" in your example
So, what part of “MIGHT is better than WON’T” are you having trouble understanding?
Same argument as "a little genocide is good" crowd?
Ffs. You people are intolerable. Welcome to the blocklist.
Right right but you can't stop there. Voting is the easy part. It's everything else that makes a real difference.
All the people saying you need to fuckin vote aren't saying that's all you need to do, they're saying that's the absolute least that you should do.
Exactly. It doesn’t even have to be that complex, spending some time educating self and then sharing that education with friends and family can make a huge difference.
I agree, we must at all costs keep doing what we've always done. How else are are we ever going to turn this ship around?
… or you could be like this person- and not vote and see how much change happens.
Not voting has led to immense change. You just don't want to see it.
Look at how much the views of the Democratic party have shifted in the last two years due to Gaza. It took Democrats losing an election for AIPAC democrats to become politically radioactive.
Parties losing elections are the most effective means of forcing change within a party. Hell, that's how we got neoliberalism in the first place. The old party of the New Deal had its coalition fall apart. Clinton adopted the triangulation strategy as a way of responding to the losses of the Reagan years. I don't consider that to be change for good, but it's another example of change.
Major change in parties only usually happens after election losses. Otherwise it's far too easy to just keep going with the status quo.
Lmao…. You don’t vote, you get trump. Plain and simple. And I’m so fucking done with all the bullshit excuses you people hurl at anyone that disagrees with you.
You helped bring trump. Take a bow.
They won't, no snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche, especially the snowflakes gassing up everybody to roll down the hill because of how awful staying put is.
They don't want to improve their situation, they want to make everyone else's worse.
Wow I haven't read something that stupid for a long time (of a non MAGA or similar)...
So you suggest, we just let climate change and WW3 fuck all things up, so we're just not able to do any further damage control (at least for the first part that's at someday true)?
Activism is a better means (even violent) + damage control (i.e. for muricans: primaries + blue-voting)
At least Republicans admit they're evil
Democrats spend their term trying to clean up Republican mistakes, and then get in trouble for not doing enough.
I don't like either party, but you have the party that tried to minimize the AIDS epidemic vs the party that tried to get us universal healthcare (gutted into the ACA by McConnell and Ryan, but still).
It's an easy choice. It's not solving everything but it's helping.
I get that's what Democrats claim to do. But that's just capitalist propaganda. The ACA is a great example, instead of actually making healthcare a human right it just further entrenched the power of insurance companies.
Its especially funny that you're defending Democrats in the comments of a news story where they're taking the morally reprehensible position of betraying trans people.
Look at how many times Democrats have fucked over people like Bernie Sanders. They're not actually interested in making anyone's life better. Democrats love the orphan crushing machine that is capitalism just as much as Republicans do. They just pretend to be nicer about it.
Are you still in high school?
Surely you remember the original concepts of the ACA before Republicans gutted it? And if you were alive and using health insurance as an adult before the ACA, surely you understand why it's better than the system before it.
You sure both sides are as bad as each other here?
Ugh, I will vote Democrat but I havent abandoned any trans people. I understand the party is just grasping for anything at this point and they think cowering away from speaking with their chest is the only way but I already consider them feckless busy bodies. Its all fucked and let it collapse but I wont sentence anyone to life under a republican white nationalist regime.
SUPPORTING Trans people is an EASY and WINNING Issue? Quick! DO the OPPOSITE!
-LITERALLY Democrats!
A good chunk of the political ads in my very red area are Republicans saying that "men are going to be using the women's bathrooms" if the Democrats win. It's definitely a topic that the right likes to talk about to distract from the economy burning down. "But the bathrooms! Women's sports!" and the people over here gobble it up
In my state Conservatives are trying to overthrow our choice to keep abortion rights that we voted for in 2024 by telling us keeping them will also be allowing for kids to transition surgically (I wish I was making it up, but there's at least ads trying to tell people to not fall for it and that the amendment is just about abortion rights).
Ok, but think of all the conservatives we could win over by screwing over minority groups! The Baileys need to be represented!!
It's not in the top five issues that need immediate attention. And by "immediate" I mean government immediate, of course.
It's not even in the top ten. The other guys are going to make your lives worse so voting for them "out of spite" is about the stupidest thing a human monkey could do. Human beings "think". Human monkeys - not so much.
How about lets put our agendas aside and made the United States of AMERICA the main agenda here. Unless you think you'd like to live in Russia, which is exactly where trump will take it if he steals these midterms.
The problem is no transphobic democrat is capable of saving democracy. That requires having a moral backbone and being willing to pass unpopular laws. People who believe in nothing and simply chase polls to power are not going to have the courage necessary to save democracy.
You can't vote for cowards and then expect bravery.
The house is on fire and they're complaining we refuse to talk about who does the dishes. I swear this culture has made people so self absorbed they are incapable of seeing when the system they're a part of needs to be the priority. America could lose it's democracy in this election and if it does, no amount of nagging is going to help trans rights.
You failed the part of history class where you had to read the "first they came for" poem, didn't you?
Frankly, if you're not willing to protect the minorities in your community, then you don't deserve the right to vote.
You seem to have failed the part of history where minorities get sacrificed before meaningful resistance emerges. Or the part where the system of democracy needs to actually keep existing for trans to have any voice at all.
Oh, so I need to die for you to have a better world. I'm the martyr you need to inspire you to protect others. Got it. Super cool and not at all fucked up.
Liberals are so openly hateful, and they're smug and feel superior about it.
Every minority is a sacrifice they're willing to make.
You don't get to dictate the course of events. History shows what will happen. On the scale needed to act, there is no personal choice involved. You aren't the first or only group to suffer the anger and pain and fear and the injustice of being dependent on a community that refuses to do what is needed to protect you. We are not all in this together and we never were. The gross, ongoing and unfettered abuses of the wealthy and powerful have committed crimes against entire generations and the community continues to do nothing. Given what they are attempting right now, we're all probably fucked. I'm sorry. I don't have any hope left for you in America.
There is no overlap between the groups of "people who can save democracy" and "transphobic Democrats."
That's sounds moralistically naive.
this is not an important metric for the nation stop making it so. focus on real issues culture wars can stay culture wars go away and let us focus on jailing the elite epsteins. and stop making it about you there are more important things at hand like preventing criminals from seizing power. all your culture wars have made the nation a much much much worse place to live and impovished the nation and endangered the world. stop letting your self culture interest endanger everyone else for your idealogical gains.
Transphobes are not going to save democracy. That requires people with courage willing to pass unpopular laws that will get Americans killed.
Dem centrists already abandoned students, medical professionals, the poor, immigrants, anyone needing civili rights, or free speech. The wonder is that trans people ever thought such a fairwether friend would be at their side for more than a single election cycle. The republicans are fascsists and the dems are donation whores who stand for nothing except cashing checks from their corporate Johns.
If I'm wrong please explain to me what the dems will run on in the midterm election. What are the issues they are caring deeply about and championing? Does anyone know?
With FPTP, a candidate from one of the two major parties will win. You're voting against the greater evil. Primaries are where you vote your conscience and hopefully get the candidate you want on the ballot.
Thats how it works in practical terms. When you protest vote against the lesser of two evils, you are throwing support to the greater evil.
rather not vote if i dont get what i want too bad biden and kamela 🤮 i regret nothing not my problem nation got what they deserved. both times biden and trump until both parties 2 party system uniparty dies.
As I keep pointing out, the problem with this argument is that it presumes that the United States is a law of nature, eternal and unshakable, simply the backdrop for our political battles. It is not. That much should be obvious with how much the fascists have managed to dismantle in such a short time.
Yes, FPTP means that a candidate from one of the two major parties will win. But also, every time a candidate from one of the two major parties wins, we get closer to authoritarianism (slowly with Team Blue, directly with Team Red), and the destruction of the United States. Both things can be true. There's not always a solution to our problems, or a correct course of action.
We have to do something other than FPTP with the two, current major parties. Well, no, actually, we don't have to. It's only if we want to save the United States (and protect vulnerable minorities) that we do.
Either you work with the current 'legal' democratic system, and vote for the lesser of two evils, and then work within the system to push for what you want with media, lobbying and peaceful protests; or you go with some sort of violent illegal acts - which will probably just get you in jail. If you don't vote for the better candidate who can win, and just sit on your arse complaining, you won't get much respect.
Yes, those are the options. I chose to advocate for peaceful-as-possible legal reforms of the current system, e.g. the big cities should 'secede' from state control, while remaining part of the Union, not unlike the free imperial cities of the Holy Roman Empire. The point here is that voting in the "respectable" way for the lesser-evil party has not, and will not, save us from eventual authoritarianism, any more than the right configuration of deck chairs will keep the ship from foundering. (Well,a better analogy is that one party wants to rip the hull open more, while the other wants to run the pumps even if they can't keep up with the flooding, and repairing the hole isn't an option under the regulations.)
Maybe it won't save us, but voting the lesser of two evils will reduce the immediate damage. Better to have someone adjusting the deck chairs than stabbing people and throwing them into the water.
And we can push in other angles of reform at the same time.
When is this pushing other angles of reform ever gonna start? If it didn't in 2020, I have to wonder. I'm just not satisfied with "everybody gets stabbed, but a few years later" as the best possible outcome.
Not sure. What have you done to start it?
Been telling anybody who'd listen that we're on the path to authoritarianism with the two major parties since '96, donating to and promoting media organizations that spread the message, voting, contracting my representatives, and trying to influence local government.
Thank you for proving me right.
Go buy some lottery tickets. You're bad at math.
You’re not right. Read fhe room.
Such a small minority (1% of 1%) stokes such overwhelming fear.
Even if you can’t be an empathetic human who accepts that everyone should be safe and allowed to exist as who and what they are, you can still be selfish and recognize that attacking transgender rights is also attacking YOUR rights.
If you are referring to the commenter, I think their point is that the fear is irrational in large part because it’s such a small group of people.
I would add to that, there’s no evidence that being trans itself has caused anyone any harm. Even studies of gender affirming treatment shows that an overwhelming number of people treated see an increased quality of life afterwards (98% or more, with the reduce quality being attributed mainly to increased transphobia from others, not regret of the treatment itself).
Yes.
And my point is that even with it being a small group- positively tiny in the scheme of things- it’s still important to protect their human rights.
Because if we erode their right to be who they are, we erode our own right to be who we are- that includes the right to be women who are good at sports, or men who suck at sports.
That includes being a male nurse or so woman firefighter.
Or whatever they’re telling us is appropriate/innapropeiate for what ever one has going on.
They’re using transphobia, fear and hate to attack everyone. Trans persons are vulnerable and need protection, not just because they need and deserve being safe… but also because what happens to the most vulnerable of us will eventually happen to all of us.
I don’t think anyone in this thread would disagree with the principle that the legitimacy of a human right isn’t dependent on the size of a group.
And you are correct that what happens to one group can happen to all. I would take it a step further and say that this is already happening with transphobic laws. Cisgender people are becoming victims of them too. https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart
ya know, i’ve been an ally for a long fucking time
but simply pointing out it sure looks like this is the exact same playbook that put trump in office again and sparked this nightmare leads to downvote brigade
this is the fucking stupid ass shit that causes divide and leads to bad people gaining power, that’s all i’m trying to fucking say in here
I would argue that it is your attitude that leads to people like Trump winning.
There's a strain of toxic positivity among liberals. You can't speak ill of the party, definitely not near election time! The idea is that if we simply agree to never discuss the negatives of the party near election time, if we "speak no evil" hard enough, that we can manifest our way to an election victory. It's been tried again and again, and it fails every time.
It wasn't Republicans that cost Kamala her election. Republican troll accounts didn't invent lies about her Gaza policies and then spread them using bot accounts. Kamala threw her own base under the bus, and as a direct result of her own choices, lost the election.
She didn't lose because of the evil machinations of Republican divide-and-conquer tactics. She lost because she betrayed her core voters.
I absolutely despise the liberal impulse to smear any criticism as Republican or Russian meddling. If anything, it causes people to reject Democrats even more. No one likes being told that certain topics are forbidden or beyond discussion. And while you can vote scold people until the cows come home, no one is actually going to be shamed into voting for candidates that betray them.
Then don't bitch when we chose not to vote to support your bigoted candidates.
OP didn't even read the article they posted before providing commentary as if they did...
What's the point of including an article if you didn't even read it???
Why do you think any commentary has to directly mirror the points of the article? I did read it and then posted the thoughts it inspired in me. I did read it. You just have a poor understanding of literacy.
Clearly
Seriously, I am getting a rash of crap for not following the rules. Apparently this is how you post what you want and not follow the rules.
Just what the world needs. Attacks on the left wing to help justify Republicans again...
It's bullshit posts like this which is why Trump won the last election.
Left wingers made such a huge deal about a single issue, that they didn't vote, and allowed a convicted sex offender to win, who has LITERALLY now personally authorised direct war crimes
There's a billion fucking reasons to vote for Dems regardless. I'm in Australia, but visited America recently, and I realised, many American's don't even realise half of the shit thats happening caused by Trump in and outside their country.
Trump is attacking Trans people on a daily basis, whereas, democrats aren't. There is a huge difference, even for trans people. The idea that every single person in the party, needs to support EVERY single request by select communities to approve of them is crazy.
Its one reason also why compulsory voting (and preferential voting) works so well here in Australia. Because it forces people to pick the BEST candidate and it also allows them to pick the one they want (because, your preferences get prioritised)
right around election season
odd timing <.<
Absolutely.
It's like writing articles "Hitlers opposition sucks because they blocked the building of 3 synagogues. Never mind the other 150 they approved, its those 3 that are important..
Oh, but they're still better than the others, so vote for them, but complain about it until the election, which totally won't discourage them in a country where voting isn't mandatory
Also, just remember, the personal opinion of 2 senators is what matters.
More like, "99% of Hitler's opposition doesn't oppose synagogues. But it's your duty to vote for any synagogue-burner as long as they also oppose Hitler."
No. I and others hold these views constantly. You just only pay attention to politics during politics season.
Or maybe you're just a Republican bot account. After all, I see comments accusing leftists of being Republicans, but only near election season. What odd timing that is!
fuck off
i’ve been watching you act deranged in the comments, i wasn’t going to block you but i can tell you’re another energy vampire
And see what happens right now. I detest you muricans for that false pride ("they're also bad"), that led to Trump even winning the popular vote. It has global implications!
An election is (almost) always damage control, it's lunatic to think a party/person will do everything that you stand for... I have never voted for a party because I like them, or I support all their positions in europe...
You can get active politically through whatever means, but at the same time you need to avoid the worst.
Perfection is unachievable, but go ahead and either don't vote, vote independent or even vote for the open hatred party. It's your foot your shooting.
Being a decent human isn't perfection, it's the bare minimum.
Your definition of decent is likely not the same as someone else's. The worst person you can think of thinks they're a good person.
And yet the worse person I can think of has no shame when they are shown how little decency they actually have.
And BlueMAGA wonders why I have only ever voted third party at every single level.
What seats do third parties hold in your state?
The same ones Dems hold considering is one of the deepest red states in the Midwest.
They hold no local positions then? No governors or anything?
Again, Dems and any other party besides Conservatives hold 0 power here and pretty much never have in the 30+ years I've lived here. It's why whenever someone runs on any party besides Republican here, they emphasize they were lifelong Republicans that don't agree with where the party is going so they left it. Never works cause Conservatives want full Conservative, not Conservative-lite.
What state?
So you're a republican.
Fuck no. Both parties can eat a dick since neither actually give a shit about anything going on here. Trump, Biden, Obama, Bush, all can die tomorrow and I'd be elated.
Congratulations, you help elect Republicans.
You don't owe them shit and are free to abandon them, though given the situation in the USA right now, it will be at your peril.
Keep voting lesser evil TM. Surely they will move left after the elections and not sell out to right wing donors...
The DNC should have been purged of centrists but you all wanted to stick with them. Now this is what you get.
yeah this worked out so well for palestine huh? you ignore the entire thing then the hard right nazis get their way, that'll go great
It actually has worked amazingly well for the Palestinian cause.
Yes, on the ground, things haven't improved in Gaza, but they also haven't gotten any worse. The vast majority of the deaths were during the Biden administration. Trump has mostly just continued Biden's policies in terms of Israel/Palestine.
What has improved is that the Democratic party has moved majorly to the left on the issue of Gaza. The base has completely turned on Israel. The candidates are slowly changing their stances. Progress is being made.
But it took Democrats actually losing the general election over Gaza for this to happen. The party chose to skip the primary and forced all pro-Gaza voices out of the room. Their arrogance cost them an election they should have won. And as a response, real change is happening.
The folks who said, "voting against Biden will do nothing for Palestine" were flat-out wrong.
Wow, how fucking ghoulish are you, spewing outright propaganda that even the Republicans would be proud of?
I don't know what else I expected coming from someone who wants to hurt everyone because they're not seen as special enough to the democrats.
Kindly fuck off with your lying bullshit. I'm disgusted at how people like you are lying to take advantage of thousands of people being murdered to perpetuate even more violence against people who can't defend themselves.
You didn't even think about the chart you posted. You posted a chart showing exactly what I claimed. 2023 and 2024 were entirely under Biden's term. Did you forget that point? 2025 looks to me like a straight-line continuation of the patterns observed in 2023 and 2024.
But sure, call me a liar when your own fucking chart proves me right.
No wonder why you vote lesser evil. You clearly have a critical thinking problem.
And you didn't think about how that number is getting bigger and bigger, did you?
Or did you forget how hard trump and the republicans were ginning up the war in the lead up to the election? How they were gassing up Israel after October 7 2023???
But you do you. I'm sure the Republicans will finally end their genocide against you when they win again and again and again.
Always funny to see this from someone advocating for their own demise.
what a self absorbed, ghoulish take on the deaths trump has goaded bibi onto.
well you showed the dems and now things are going great!
I don't know what I was expecting from a scientist made of wood. Lignin for brains I guess.
You can't refute my points so you just go straight to name-calling and ad hominem.
Trump has simply continued Biden's stance on Gaza. And again, the vast majority of the deaths in Gaza occurred during Biden's watch. Call me all the names you want; that won't change these inconvenient truths.
Let's compare the counterfactual.
If Kamala had won:
Since Trump won:
For the Gazans at least, Trump winning was absolutely a net positive. Well, more a "lesser evil" choice. Neither candidate would have actually helped the Gazans, but Kamala losing at least created the potential for long-term improvement within one of the parties.
This is the problem with "lesser evil" thinking. It works both ways. When both parties announce that they're going to hurt you and your people equally, the lesser evil choice is to vote against the one whose loss is most likely to reshuffle candidates and policies. If both choices will hurt you, the lesser evil choice is to flip over the table and hope for something completely different.
We'll never fucking know will we?
jfc, look at the maps of the west bank and explain the positive. jfc man, you may not care about those people but holy fuck.
bullshit projection to justify the terrible choices you're pushing.
Accelerationist dipshittery mostly.
valid
Voting for the lesser evil is how we ended up with legalized gay marriage.
"Lesser evil" can be rephrased as "greater good"
You sure about that? If John Kerry had won in 2004, Barrack Obama would not have won in 2008. John Kerry would have had a single uninspiring term as president only to lose reelection to McCain in 2008 after the housing market collapse. We wouldn't have had to deal with Roberts and Alito on the bench, but in turn we wouldn't have had Kagan and Sotomayor. In fact, the only two justices Obama appointed replaced Stevens and Souter, both men who were considered to be on the liberal side of the court. Obama replaced two liberal justices with two liberal justices. He did keep the court from sliding more conservative, but Obama was not at all responsible for Obergefell. That ruling was more about shifting national attitudes than it was anything the Democrats did.
We should remove all the water with piss in it from the swimming pool then go swimming.
Oh this shit again.
A sincere fuck you to everyone who allows this argument to sway their choices in the voting booth.
Also, when you use the word "liberal" as a slur, you are living proof of the horseshoe theory. In other words, to use a contemporary fediverse lingo, you are a nazi.
I'm sorry that I want more than what dems are willing to deliver. It's my fault they aren't offering anything but "us or it'll be even worse." You're right. I should stop asking for universal healthcare, Trans rights, an end to the genocide of the Palestinian people, and all that other crap. Sure thing.
Wake up. Most dems don't care about you. It's time we replace them.
Well, I'm not even american so fuck me too. I'd just rather prefer that you (as in american people) don't elect russophile traitors to positions of power anymore, or people who protect those traitors from lawsuits and other consequences.
As it stands now over there, it seems to me that every non-vote for Democrats is a vote for the traitors.
You'd be more likely to have some luck with transrights and "the genocide" also with Democrats winning house and senate.
Wouldn’t hold your breath on that one. We have to deal with the rich before we can fix anything. But the class war is hard to wage in America because everyone is really fucking hungry or really fucking stupid. Our government has fallen to the perception and power of the dollar. Until people realize how fucked they actually are nothing is going to change. And that’s just like dipping your toe into this shitfuck fest.
I think if you're basing your political hopes on americans getting so miserable that they'll revolt or something, it doesn't seem to be happening. Your median wages and average wealth have been growing steadily for the last at least 20 years, probably more.
In contrast, I've lived in a country where both have been stagnating for about the same 2 decades and people are still not really angry about it.
What country do you live in?
Finland. The happiest place on Earth.
Fuck me. Adopt me please.
Just so you know, horseshoe theory is just a meme and not something taken at all seriously by any political academic. It's more right wing nonsense like "blue maga," just psyops to keep stupid people from voting for Dems.
Just so you know, [citation needed]
I'm not obligated to educate you. If you're gonna comment on a topic you know nothing about, you should educate yourself. But the whole criticism section on wiki is about how the idiot public keeps thinking it's a thing in spite of basically every related academic field disregarding it as nonsense. If you can read, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
I'm sorry for hurting you so badly, but you can get right out of here with your imagined superiority. It's completely fake.
So you can't read. That explains a lot.
Look...just going to be super honest here and say a Super Minority group of maybe 1-2% making electoral threats doesn't math out, and in the bigger picture of things happening right now only amounts to extortion, and the Gay Community at large can explain to you why this doesn't work in great detail.
The words you posted don't even match the tenor of the article you've linked, so I'm feeling this is just a misguided way of putting some bluster out there. At best, you need to side with the people trying to protect you, but in the realm of all logic you've apparently decided to make a threat towards them if you don't get exactly all the things you want on your checklist.
It's like yelling "You better give me the money, or I'm going to rob this bank here" to the cops, but you're standing in a Wendy's parking lot, and you have no weapons.
Then don't bitch about how we chose to vote. If we're not numerous enough for you to consider our issues to be of worth, then don't be surprised when we don't support you.
You seem to think I'm complaining about something, when my words obviously don't do anything of the sort. You're doing this "Royal We" and acting like you're the representative for a larger group of people, which your are not. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your statements and trying to understand what you're trying to to say. As others have said, you're not making a lot of sense.
I will never be a single issue voter. There will never be a perfect candidate. I may disagree with a candidate on 3 of 10 things. And that’s oka, it’s better than if I disagree 7 out of 10 things on.
You would vote for a high-ranking member of the Ku Klux Klan as long as they supported Medicare for All.
That’s a really odd take.
Doesn't mean it's incorrect. It's what lesser evil thinking leads you to.
Bullshit. It is extremely unlikely that I would have 7 of 10 things I agree with a person like that.
Tell me, what is your voting strategy?
Be as much concerned about the power balance within each party's coalition as which party wins the election.
Ahh. So you would vote for someone you don’t completely agree with if it meant balancing things out.
Good idea, you should just let the fascists win. I’m sure that’ll go well for everyone.
Your post is just another way of saying, "I have voter myopia and can't look more than one election into the future."
And your post said everything short “vote for the fascists”.
Who ever wins, trans will only have rights in the US if they keep fight for it. So the question isn't who make the best promises before the vote, but who is the most likely to accept to negociate after.
Democrats showing yet again that they would rather lose support from their most progressive voters than their most moderate swing voters.
Did you read the article? I don't even think OP did based on their post....
Why do you think any commentary on an article has to completely parrot its points? It's a reaction, not a summary.
👍
Time to roll over and die then I guess.
Yes, the options are bleak and the honesty is thin on the ground when it comes to politicians, but this narrative has wandered back into “chop off your nose to spite your face” territory just in time for the election. Weird how that always happens.
Doing nothing allows the absolute worst people to seize more power and hurt more people. If you’re that disillusioned by the whole process then you should be looking up schematics for guillotines, not trying to drag others down into your apathy and ruin.
These "Democrats in tight races" are doing what they need to do to win and will toe the Pro-trans party line once they're elected.
Cool vote for trump then and shutup
Leftists; "Don't vote for the 1% of Democrats that are openly transphobic. Make being a transphobe political suicide for any Republican."
Liberals: "cool, guess you want Trump to win."
You're literally telling me to sit down and shut up. You want our votes, not our voices. Typical arrogant liberal.
You have zero voice now, how does it feel
Lesser of two evil math indeed! If you didnt vote for Obama in 2008 due to his stance on gay marriage, you get another republican, the cultural shift would never have happened and you wouldn't have gotten gay marriage a few years later. You kids are also too fucking militant. Its like the palestine thing, you're not allies you're agitators. Agitators bring resentment not change. If you cared about trans people you would recognize the less of two evils and have a coherent plan to navigate it. A plan that doesnt involve shitting your pants before every election, and sticking your head in the sand after.
Before you start i have a lot of trans friends one who just killed theirself so im a lil sensitive on the topic, and on the current administration, and especially you little shits with 0 foresight and 100 rage.
We’re here because you old shits voted how you voted. It’s been going on for the past 50+ years, and “kids these days” have a right to demand candidates that aren’t evil at all.
Your low standards led to Trump.
You have a poor understanding of history. "Lesser of two evils" didn't get us Obama. If the lesser evil won in 2004, Kerry would have had a single term in office and then lost to McCain after the housing collapse. In the 2008 primary, Hillary's entire argument was that she was the lesser evil. Obama's victory was a complete refutation of your lesser evil beliefs.
You have 0 foresight and 100 rage.
Blue wave would be a death sentence as much as a red wave then.
Not as much. You have no grasp.
here’s the bot ^update: this persons probably not a bot, but they aren’t helping
nor are they in the United States, nor are they voting
Here’s the thrice Trump voter ^
if that’s what you think baby face 👶
vote blue no matter who, execute trump and his cronies
then punish his supporters
i will defend my trans friends to the bitter end, violently
i’m fucking sick of you trolls, coming for russians next
Yeah, you’re definitely how it got to where it is. Yikes.
who you voting for then? you seem to have it figured out
I don’t think mail-in voting will be a thing and so I won’t be able to receive my ballot from safely outside of the USA. I will not be braving the polling booths, since I’m unwilling to risk any more of myself for a country that doesn’t like me anyway.
Maybe there’s time to do another peaceful protest.
oh so you’re not in the united states, you don’t plan on voting, and you’re going to sling insults at people who are trying to at least show others they aren’t alone
got it, you’re in here wasting time and stirring the pot