Iranian singer’s 74 lashes for performing without a hijab ‘a form of torture’, say rights groups
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/sep/30/iranian-singer-74-lashes-parastoo-ahmadi-performing-without-hijab-tortureOpen linkView original on lemy.lol
95 replies
Wait… so, torturing someone is a form of torture?
No way!
Thank you rights groups, we wouldn't have known otherwise!
Uhhhhh..... Yeah?
Sometimes I believe the reason religion exists is to control women.
Then I remember it controls everyone that is not in the elite.
also why, in his mission to queerify and turn religion anarchic, aleister crowley was branded 'the most dangerous man alive' by the powers that be in his time.
or atleast thats what i can gather from his actual practice. I think, that if theres any truth to the epstein circle and occult practice, its a whacko larp not really connected to anything resembling actual thelemic magick, which is generally VERY focused on consent and acceptance of anyone involved
sry i saw an opportunity to infodump and ran with it ✌️
It makes the people control each other.
The women who shows too much female attractiveness gets beatings.
The man who doesn’t make a family and is dominant toward his woman is punished with lower social status.
The system of people regulates itself.
Religions are nothing else than sects.
Men don't own women
Islam and evangelical Christians disagree.
Some shackles are more comfortable than others.
It's the softer ones that constrict the flow of blood and do the most long term damage.
That just shows how blind you are to how it also control and treats men. Ya know, those majority who aren't the ones in power?
That's some goddamm primitive shit right there. Great culture you got.
Hey maybe don't judge an entire culture by its worst adherents? Are we really still doing this 9/11-era nonsense?
The singer is the culture. The torture is the regime.
Try learning the difference before talking out your ass next time.
I mean I'm not convinced long prison sentences are actually any better. The problem is the crime being punished, not the punishment.
Honestly, they both seem kinda problematic to me.
My point is that it'd be equally problematic if it was a prison sentence roughly equivalent to 74 whips (actually flogs). Imprisonment gets more leeway in popular consciousness because it's modern and Western, but "woman gets separated from her family for five years and has her life completely derailed for not wearing hijab" isn't actually any better—I'd argue it's worse—than "woman gets flogged 74 times for not wearing hijab."
Edit: I assumed too much, see thread under the other reply.
All three are bad - corporal punishment, hijab laws and absurd prision sentences. But whipping women publicly for dress code violations is by far the most absurdly unbalanced ratio of crime:punishment though.
Copy pasted from my response to the other person:
My point is that it'd be equally problematic if it was a prison sentence roughly equivalent to 74 whips (actually flogs). Imprisonment gets more leeway in popular consciousness because it's modern and Western, but "woman gets separated from her family and loved ones for five years and has her life completely derailed for not wearing hijab" isn't actually any better—I'd argue it's worse—than "woman gets flogged 74 times for not wearing hijab."
Setting aside that it's real strange how moral offenses aren't subject to diyya (how weird I wonder why that could be) - Yes, a prison sentence in response would also be very bad. But, no, I'm not doing this with someone that's trying to minimize the impacts of corporal punishment.
Two problems: If we use a formal definition of flogging, for example from wikipedia ("Flagellation (Latin flagellum, 'whip'), flogging or whipping is the act of beating the human body with special implements such as whips, rods, switches, the cat o' nine tails, the sjambok, the knout, etc."), it's clear that the terms are synonyms and thus there's no reason for you to make this distinction.
If we use the colloquial definition of 'flogging' (as with a multi-fall instrument commonly called a flogger), the only one with a distinction so I'm just assuming that's what you're trying to imply, fuck off with that "it's actually flogging" bullshit. Guidelines for morality whippings state they should by done with a Tazi, which is a one-meter leather strip with a metal or stone bead knotted on the end (which can be seen in the image below) - and while it doesn't generally break skin (at least until the later strokes) like the rawhide whips used for executions, it will fracture ribs and vertebra and can easily cause death through blunt trauma if an inexperienced ghastly strikes the neck or kidneys.
Just fuck right off with this - months of pain when you breathe while recovering from multiple fractured ribs is not better than a prison sentence.
::: spoiler (! NSFL !)
:::
Okay clearly I didn't know as much about this stuff as I should have, so screw you for immediately assuming bad faith on my part but thanks for the information I guess.
That's because diyya is there to convince the wronged party to back off and not pursue criminal punishment. Not sure how that's supposed to work with moral offenses.
While admittedly this isn't something I know much about, I'm more trying to highlight the impacts of imprisonment. Imprisonment for all but the lightest of offenses (which clearly the Iranian regime doesn't view this as) tends to be a nontrivial fraction of a human lifetime even before we take into account the (usually bad) quality of life and potential abuses during it.
TIL. I'd assumed you had to use, you know, a whip for it to be whipping.
What the fuck Iran?
To reiterate: What the fuck Iran?
I guess I should be glad I don't have the firsthand experience to confirm or deny this.
To be honest, I didn't assume bad faith - I assumed you were ignorant about a subject that is very serious, and which frequently gets minimized on the fediverse because Iran stands in opposition to the US. To be sure much of that is a reaction to the islamophobic propaganda that suffuses pretty much every other english-language information outlet so I cannot begrudge it entirely, but it does tend to bleed into discussions about the subject.
Just keep in mind that, being as you are presumably from a culture that does not have corporal punishment, it can be hard to understand the magnitude of the evils it inflicts on a person. The image I linked above is one of the few that exists depicting ordinary moral punishment being meted out, and while I have never been subjected to it, I have seen it happen and helped care for the aftermath. It's not as much fun as it looks I promise, and I can't imagine anyone who would chose it over a prison term.
For my invective I do apologize; you rather hit a nerve, and I appreciate your reasonableness in response.
Sure, buddy-boy. We're doing real honest to goodness humanitarian shit here in the USA. Get bent.
I don't believe they mentioned anything about the USA. That was you making an assumption. For all I know, they believe the same about the USA.
Also, chill out. Telling a stranger to get bent is wild.
So is calling an entire culture primitive. At least mine is targeted at someone using open bigotry rather than issuing a blanket statement for entire people.
They didnt say the entire culture was primitive. They said the lashing was primitive.
Out of the two of you, it seems you're the one putting words in OPs mouth. The above is what was said, and it clearly mentions their culture.
Hell you could even argue they didn't even mention the lashings; but that seems just as insincere as claiming they didn't take aim at a specific culture.
Well if your culture contains lashing women for something like this, still kinda weird to want to defend it
Nobody is defending lashing. It's the Claim that lashes are part of Iranian culture that's being questioned, as it enables scapegoating and dehumanisation of a people based on nationality; a good example is the genocide within Gaza and how it was largely whitewashed by claiming the actions of hamas equal the actions of Palestinians.
It's no different to claiming that the abduction and rape/torture of citizens based on ethnicity is American culture... I'm not American, but i'd assume there's widespread disgust at all the concentration camps ICE have set up and inhumane treatment going on inside them, so wouldn't claim it's part of American culture, but just because I won't brandish every American as a rapist doesn't mean I agree with rape and torture.
Literacy is dead. You can call an action primitive and in a separate sentence sarcastically congratulate the culture.
You can have a non primitive culture that includes primitive punishment without having a primitive culture. Thats why the sentence makes sense.
If they thought it was a primitive culture the punishment would be fitting and specifically calling the action primitive would make no sense. If they thought it was primitive they would just say what you're accusing them of and refer to the culture as primitive shit.
They can both be bad. Lashes for not covering your hair us awful. The US is also carrying out brutal and terrible things. US government actions don't mean everyone should ignore the shitty things the Iranian government does.
"Iran is doing some pretty awful shit to a particular citizen of theirs."
"Well wah, what about the U.S?!??"
Like, seriously? You must have practiced this in the mirror before you typed this, you basement dwelling weirdo
I included the "what about" in my initial response, but realized how pointless it is to argue with who deny words when they're written in the thread they're arguing about.
Uh-huh, and what about the "what about"?
You didn't seriously sit on this for 2 days? Really?
Basement. Dwelling. Weirdo. Make sure mommy doesn't forget the ketchup for your dino nuggies.
No. I didn't. I just don't log into this shit and respond all the time. Do you?
Yeah, wouldn't set a foot there either.
Its a reminder that just because the orange fuck found the absolute worst way to deal with them. Iran fucking sucks. Like, the government needs to be eradicated. Just not like how fucking america did it.
Trump brought them cultural unity to defend themselves militarily from the only government they have
No he didnt. All he did was fuck the whole world. Fuck needs to die.
What do you propose
The exact way it was being handled before: Letting them collapse on their own. And it was very close to actually working, their was massive unrest in the country and it looked looked like they were on the verge of something at least. Now the hardliners have shored up their power, and somehow Trump fucked up so hard they are even a sympathetic figure on the world stage. Truly one of the world's most staggeringly idiotic military decisions.
Wait, are you talking about those massive protests that were shutdown after less than two weeks? Where people fled back inside because of the mass killings because they didn't have any weapons?
Even if you feel that whipping is a legitimate form of punishment, 74 lashes is such a crazy number. Like I'm not sure she'll be conscious for the last of it.
Depending on how it's done, that could easily be fatal.
Yeah, Singapore limits it to 24 total, and most people only get 3, 6 tops.
Yeah, I'd only ever heard of people getting at most 8 or 10 anywhere. This seems insanely excessive.
At that point it's not even about punishment of the person, this is just straight up making an example.
Yeah, for sure. About wearing a friggen piece of cloth.
There is no such thing as a legitimate form of punishment
Penal systems exist for correction, not punishment. The idea of a sentence is how long you need to separate that individual from society, with access to excellent mental health professionals and various forms of therapy, before they can safely return to society.
Punishment doesn't correct people.
I think it's supposed to be a deterrent, not a correction. With the prospect of a punishment like this, you would think twice to step over the line.
::: spoiler spoiler She will be dead before she gets to 40. 😢
:::
This is conservatism. Plain and simple. Conservatism should be a capital offense in every nation. There is no such thing as a conservative in any country whose life is valuable. They are all pure evil and need to be dealt with as such.
idk, I use Debian Stable because I'm conservative.
I also value lives of all humans and all animals.
Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Every. Word.
It's pretty common for extremism like this to get entrenched when met with over attempts at manipulating countries. It happened with the Taliban and it's happened on Iran. It's pretty rare to get the "Regime change" you want through violence
The Taliban and current Iranian leadership are both conservative. I think you are inadvertently supporting my position that conservatism should be erased.
Well, I'm just stating why groups like these gain traction. Extreme circumstances, extreme solutions.
That's fair. I agree that extreme circumstances warrant extreme solutions.
I spent over 50 years as a pacifist. I hate the idea of harming others, but I can see now that every single terrible thing done by humans in human history was done by conservatives. Every war, every genocide, every act of bigotry you've ever heard of... all of it is led exclusively by conservatives.
Conservatives are the single greatest threat to all life on earth. For example, if not for conservatives, the normal people would be able to address climate change. If not for conservatives, billionaires would be chargeable with crimes and be required to pay taxes fairly. Employees would have the ability to unionize. Healthcare would be available and housing would be affordable. Every major problem we face as humans today is solved by the erasure of conservatives.
We are in extreme circumstances globally because of the continued existence of conservatives. There is a way to fix this problem. And you're correct. It's an extreme solution. But, it's desperately needed.
Barbaric tradition. Absolutely awful.
Yes this is bad.
And also USA systemically tortures thousands of people for decades at a time and it's completely "normal".
Butwhatabout
When you discuss, say, an execution in the USA... do you also post Iranian executions?
Hmmm? Answer me.
Iran supplies weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine and has funded and armed HAMAS for decades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_support_for_Hamas
Hamas is a democratically elected government. Supporting hamas just means giving water sanitation equipment sometimes.
Or do you mean the military of hamas?
I mean Hamas, you can tell I meant that because I typed "HAMAS".
I am against the funding of all Islamic groups, because Islam wants to murder me (per the Koran and the modern teachings of fundamentalist imam's).
It's against my policy to finance the murderous, this includes all fundamentalist Abrahamic faiths.
Of course you're from Lemmy.world.
Of course you're tiresome
FYI Crew very carefully of anti-Iran articles like this. It's propaganda.
Obviously treating her like this is abhorrent. Just remember that the media is not your friend.
How about the crazy shit France enforces about what muslim kids can wear in school and how hamfisted and discriminatory it is?
How about Israel now trying to push to expel ANY Arabs from its government?
The spin is hard to perceive because nothing about this article is necessarily wrong and yes of course the Iranian government has some serious problems, I see no reason to doubt for example that several thousand protestors were killed in Iran but it is not in the high tens of thousands like is so confidently reported in western media with little if any inspection of the credulity of the claims.
It is difficult and confusing but also if you just remember the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend and that falling into believing so is dangerous, all of this comes back to that in the end.
Choose your enemies based on how they behave not who their enemies are.
I can't imagine why women would want to live in such an oppressive place.
Oh, okay. Next time you're born, you should make sure to choose a good place.
Rolls the dice, come on give me a good Isekai this time.
I think they were being satirical
That would require a "/s"
Or the ability to pick up on context clues. And /s is for sarcasm.
Drink one less Starbucks a day and fly her into your new house from the savings.
Lol I don't think anyone can afford Starbucks other than assholes with no consciousness in 2026
Oh yeah. They can just move and sell their houses to aquaman.
Better cool it down with the medieval bullshit, they are already being bombed by America and are scrutinized for the killings of hundreds of thousands protesters, bad time to make more enemies.
@[email protected]
The wonders of Islam, eh.
Wonders? No I'm pretty sure it was peace... 🙄
That's like reading the Sermon on the Mount and then pointing at evangelical megachurches or the Crusades and saying "the wonders of Jesus huh". Silly man. Go read the Qur'an, no more no less, and find the "if you don't wear a veil you get lashed" line. I'll agree with you if you find them, go go.
Ah, the no true Scotsman argument. Never mind that every Islamic country pulls the same bullshit to some extent or the other. Go join the tankies over there in the denial corner.
No, you silly goose. If you say "hey, I'm X" but actually do Y, you're just being dishonest, with others and yourself, and that can be at the personal or the societal level. If you say you're a good husband but beat up your wife, you're not one, same if you're a follower of Jesus but are all about profit and power, and ofc same if you're a follower of Muhammed and go against everything the divine message put forth (including "to you your religion and to me mine", which is again in the Qur'an).
You just lack the intellectual capacity or courage to make the distinction between a person who says A and does A and a person who says A but beats children. But what can I expect from someone who just tagged me to "prove me wrong" or whatever. Enjoy the attention I've provided you, and remember to be wise and kind. 👋
God you're a pretentious dick. There's so many holes in your statements, but I don't think I want to get trolled that way. Living in Malaysia, I've got enough Islamic nuts around me as it is.
Stay safe and may God guide you. ✌️
But Musk said in a tweet that grok said it's on page 404 /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud
Exactly! 👍
They may not have liked the performance, but calling it a "form of torture" seems a little much