What the fuck did you just fucking say about America, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit about America over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" meme was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
That's probably because the loudest and most overly defensive ones are the Americans you're most likely to encounter and remember in online arguments and on American news, so that colors the perception. Especially when you don't live amongst the more reasonable majority of Americans 🤷
That is not my experience at all. Most Americans get extremely defensive when someone criticizes the US, even people who know better. Many are ok with specific criticism (like, healthcare sucking), but it doesn't take much for them to revert to 'murican mode.
I have been living in the US for over a decade and been to 2/3rds of the states.
Most Americans have their talking points ready to go around certain topics: healthcare, guns etc. But if you get anything that attacks the capitalism, building the country off of slave labor, or the country being the product of a genocide, that's when the propaganda really kicks in.
Oh and if you call it propaganda, then the denialism gets even stronger.
Spaniard here, you get very, very similar reactions here from a lot of people (possibly a lower percentage) if you dare to question the process of colonization or call out the barbaric behavior of some historical figures that have become a part of the national myth. Nationalism is a brain disease.
That's really interesting. I've lived in 9 states and I can honestly say that outside of the southeast, it is legitimately difficult to consistently find people that dont think the us is a flaming sack of shit or at least headed that way. Seriously, I've heard waaaaaaaaaaaaay more negative talk on the us from Americans than anything positive. Especially in like the last decade. But this place is so damn big that anyone's experience would vary a crazy amount so that makes sense.
Are you in tech or some other field that doesn't involve interacting with different socioeconomic groups?
Most of not all states guarantee some "interesting" encounters if you leave the cities. In California I have seen Confederate flags flying, met neonazis, and plenty of Trump supporters. Trump got over 34% of the vote in California, almost 39% in Washington and over 40% in Oregon. Those percentages are not a majority, but I think it sets a floor, since Trump supporters are not exactly trash talking the US.
I have spent a lot of time doing canvassing and other activities that mean I encounter people with very different ideas, so that would definitely explain the different experience.
If you're going to accuse me of lying, at least have the decency of doing it in a reply to my post. I lived on the East Coast and traveled up and down some, then I moved to the Midwest, I got into politics and canvassed in several states plus I went on a few road trips for fun. Then I moved to the West Coast, which somewhat limited my ability to go on road trips to other states, but still, I went as far as Colorado, I spent a month there doing backpacking and visiting a few places like Denver and Aspen.
Why do you think it is so unlikely I could visit 3 states a year?
well if an american does respond to this it proves them right if they dont respond it doesnt prove them wrong its a bad argument for an otherwise pretty dumb claim
unless americans do care i hate america and am american so idrk
There’s a certain degree of truth to it. Americans seem fine with being the butt of a joke as long as the person joking is American and not far left/right. If you offer any doubt about the political or geographic origin of your joke, it’ll often be taken poorly. I enjoy being flamed and so was eager to figure out the political joke context puzzle. +2/-16 and 6 replies, babeeee
Politics is one of the most divisive subjects you can bring up. People react emotionally because it's an emotional science. What's "right" comes down to your ethical perspective. I don't think that should be grouped in with this conversation.
It’s less that I put out an overt political view or location identifier and more that if my post seems agnostic, inferences will be made and a coin will be flipped. The funny thing is, I sometimes win the flip in one place and lose it in another. I can be +5 on lemmy and -10 on kbin because of ambiguity. I’m just like “kids getting shot is bad” and I can feel the hatred pointed at my British self. (I’m not British)
I do believe that's the response you get, people do like to assume the worst. Do you have any solid proof that any hostile response you get is from Americans? I'm still very skeptical it's a problem specific to one nation.
It’s far from unique to the US, people from India, France, China, and Russia often despise seeing outside criticism as well and they comprise over half the population of earth. And it’s mostly the topic of conversation and time of day. Were you not to have identified as American earlier, I’d have assumed you to be German or British at this hour.
🤷 As far as I'm concerned, as long as people are laughing with me and not at me I don't give a shit. I can't speak for the rest of my countrymen though.
If we say "Capitalism is ruining our lives", it's fine, but if someone from Russia says "Capitalism is ruining your lives", folks are ready to throw down.
I know seriously lmao. I mean I know it’s anecdotal, but I’m in the US and my friends and I constantly criticize the US. Most people I know tend to agree with most criticisms, myself included.
Okay, but you do realize that comeback makes you look bad right, not us? No matter your reasons or intentions, you are mocking children being murdered. Like in the example below:
American: lol British people eat spotted dicks.
A brit: lol American children get shot at school.
Wow. What a zinger, you really got me with that one, a fool I was to not recognize the comedy of children dying horrifically.
(To be clear, I didn't come up with that example randomly. I've seen the mocking of spotted dick be met with "lol child murder" more than once)
It's a fucking ignorant ass jab directed at the wrong people. The majority of Americans support stricter gun laws, it is NOT the common mans fault that our centuries old political system is set up in a way that a minority party can have so much influence.
Like I already said, no matter the reasons or intentions, they ARE mocking children being murdered. Maybe it's "lol you guys let children die lol" instead of "lol child death lol", but either way children are dead and they are laughing. Meanwhile, the majority of Americans are horrified by it and pissed off nothing is being done by our government to stop it.
It's also just incredibly thin-skinned. Really, you're gonna get so offended over a joke about spotted dick that your only response is "you guys have school shootings lol".
The majority of Americans support stricter gun laws, it is NOT the common mans fault that our centuries old political system is set up in a way that a minority party can have so much influence.
I didn't personally throw any tea into the Boston harbor but you better believe I'm going to use that as ammo against a brit if I feel like it. Personal agency has no meaning when talking about entire countries.
Civility politics is cringe as fuck. Get over yourself and threaten to liberate their country instead of whining about people being mean on the internet.
Nobody is mocking children for being murdered, that would be disgusting.
People are mocking the very much unique to the US culture of yes, we know children are being shot in schools, and no, we aren't going to do anything about it, you crazy freedom-hating commie!
It's a macabre mocking of your crazy gun culture and politics. Not of your children. I thought that was pretty obvious.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Many wonderful people live in this country. We have so much to do - and yes, we are plagued by many horrors - but we persevere.
What do you want me to do? Wave my hands and say some magic words and presto have everything be fixed? It doesn't fucking work that way.
I do what I can within my means. I vote every election for candidates supporting gun and mental healthcare reforms, I do my best to educate my less politically aware friends, I support activist organizations, etc... I'm fucking sorry if I'm not personally out there torching politicians houses or whatever the fuck you expect me to do, but I've got people that depend on me not being in fucking prison.
Sure, maybe it's crass for me to mock you for something so traumatic, but on the plus side I have never personally murdered a child so I think I'm doing just fine.
At least over here we do have some school shootings even with stricter European gun control laws. It‘s just not as prevalent as in the US.
I guess sometimes overly criticising the US can be seen as some kind of envy. The freedom we admire but the shortcomings we don’t want to have or admit. It‘s just that this extreme bipartisanship and reluctance to talk civilly with each other is disheartening to see.
If you honestly compare Germany and the US, you will notice that the prevalence of rape is much higher in the US (US: ~43/100k vs. Ger: ~15/100k, source: statista.com). Comparing gang rape specifically is more difficult though, because the US doesn't seem to keep track of that (or at least i couldn't find absolute numbers). According to Wikipedia 22.8% of rapes with female victims where gang rapes. That makes ~9/100k in the US vs ~1/100k in Germany.
Then again I don't think statistics regarding a lot of crimes are easily comparable. There might be differences regarding underreporting and legal definitions that skew numbers in different ways.
It's not whataboutism when it's on topic. You should look up that word. Also, anecdotes don't matter when you try to compare things. Statistics do though.
The overwhelming majority of so-called school shootings are single-target attacks over gang/drug disputes carried out by poor inner-city kids. They're victims of poverty and mental health, no amount of overnight gun reform will fix the illegal guns that these kids have access to.
Huh? Americans are like the most willing to admit their country is shit of like anywhere of the Lemmy audience.... America fucking sucks, sign American. I had some dude from Pakistan super mad at me for saying women are second class citizens there the other day. Apparently they treat women super well, according to that angry guy anyway. I'm still pretty sure they don't.
As always, these things can't be generalised. Every country has people that talk about their own problems, and every country has "patriots" that will deny anything is happening. There are just a lot of Americans on the internet, so people notice those who relentlessly praise America more.
After all, few countries literally ingrain "[country] exceptionalism" into their population in their school system. Many Americans, while thinking they are pointing out problems, still say "but it's still better than almost any other country at X".
Romania doesn't ingrain Romanian exceptionalism, but it does keep a lot of the REALLY horrible things Romanians have done out of the history classes.
Starting soon, the Romanian holocaust and communist period are going to be taught in high school history classes. AUR (basically our Republican party) is completely flipping their lid right now. They're a small party, but very loud and aggressively ignorant.
While yes, there were some Sharia laws back in the 1980's, many recent laws in the last 20 years have been giving more rights to women.
And that is the problem with many of you Americans, you read something online once about an other country or hear it on one of your news stations, and you instantly believe it without ever checking if it is factual or not.
The same type of people exist in other countries of course, but the blatant ignorance of Americans about other countries is staggering.
A culturally relevant joke at our expense that still has class? See guys, it IS possible. You, in fact, CAN make fun of America without going "lol your children get shot lol".
I haven't encountered Americans getting mad over that but what I have encountered is them thinking everything involves the US, especially lately. For example people claiming the Ukraine - Russia war is a proxy war between the US and Russia instead or that NATO = US. Like chill, your country is not relevant to everything in the world.
"Hey, isn't nati the one that drone strikes weddings?"
"No, that the US, that us."
"But america is part of nato..."
"Yes, but you can't just"
"Why would nato do that?"
The Ukraine conflict isn't a RU - US proxy war in the traditional sense but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of foreign aid to Ukraine has come from the US, more than double the amount of aid given by the EU as a whole. It's not hard to assume that Ukraine would be in a much worse place without America's support.
Yea, of course it has, the Budapest Memorandum says they have to help, it's a defensive pact they got in return for giving up nukes. But people are pretending the US is like the instigator and driver of this conflict even though they are literally just one of the countries providing aid to Ukraine.
And if you look at it by gdp the US isn't even top 10 and the US, UK and northern Ireland are the only countries with a pact obligating them to help Ukraine.
This is the case for every country. You just see it with the US a lot more since it of course has the biggest footprint on the English-language side of the internet.
Pushy, ignorant, reactionary, racist, isolationist, nationalist. Stick our noses into the matters of other countries where we don't belong. Assume everything is centered around us. War/military happy. Arrogant. Loud.
Not sure if I'm missing any, but these are the prevailing things I see when people are talking about the US and the people who live here.
What is hard is that there are of course people (many people, even) that match one or multiple of those descriptions. But the same as it is silly to generalize all of Europe (or even any one European country), it is silly to generalize all Americans.
According to one source, the only media that for a long time made it into the states is media that the US government approves of. I could go into detail about it, but it shows up quite prominently in this video.
I think other countries are a lot more open to self deprecation as part of their humour / culture. Not saying there aren't some examples of this in America, it just doesn't seem to be as prevalent as in British comedy for example.
Or when they extropolate from America the country being shit, to every individual American being shit for having the audacity to have been born here.
Most of us would also rather it wasn't like this, but our families, friends, and livelihoods are here, so generally speaking it's not practical to just up and leave. And our political system is to broken for us to really fix via voting
Trash on the country all you want, I'll join in with you - but don't blame the folks who are just trying to live the best we can in this fucked up country
Americans so fucking stupid. Hah wait. That's it? That's the joke?
This I don't understand. Where is this coming from and who honestly would be okay with being called a big dumb dildo and laugh along like it's such a well known fact about their country? We're a lot of things, act like we own the world and everyone owes us money and gratitude, eat like shit while letting everyone know how to be healthy, use little creamer cups instead of cream. We're not idiots.
I agree, but I don't think in black and white. My Dutch friend is probably completely oblivious to any of that, and he is a good person. Most people are probably in that same situation.
Would it be good for the government (or any government) to come out and apologize for shitty things that happened in the past? If course. But that isn't a reason to use blanket "we hate these types of people" statements seriously.
Same. In most of the interactions I have had with Americans here (including myself), they have been generally pretty aware of the faults of the United States and willing to admit to them.
As others have said, we often make fun of ourselves. On these platforms, the liberal side of America is very vocal about the conservative side of America. Healthcare, guns, cost of living, etc. are something we're constantly being made fun of (often from ourselves).
If you've experienced pushback, it's likely because it gets stale as a subject. We know our country has problem; most of us feel powerless to change it.
Maybe that's what happens when you have this much diversity in a country. We're not like the French who can all unify and protest when needed.
edit: Rereading this, it makes it sound like I think diversity is a bad thing. Didn't mean to imply that, its just that we're so different its harder to unify.
Americans do a lot of stupid things, but they are most likely to be self critical in this space. I think this meme should talk about Western Europe instead, because they have many problems, but they are so often never willing to accept criticism. They're quick to call the US racist, but in my experience, Europe has so much racism it's crazy it's viewed as this anti racist place.
I'm not sure what are you talking about. I'm Spanish and the first people to criticize Spain is Spanish people. Probably you've never even heard of all the problems our country has. Unemployment, corruption, house okupation, lots of small crime, mafia related crime for all the drugs trying to enter Europe, lots of immigration as Spain is one of the doors to Europe... I can go on. For all of these there's a lot of debate and not much being done so far...
I (a US citizen) literally didn't get a job in Germany because one member on the team objected because I didn't speak German yet. The company is "English first" and I worked in the US division previously. So yeah, Europeans are certainly as capable of being racist. And they didn't even try to hide it!
Idk about OP, but from my experience, you can speak German perfectly correctly, but have an accent, and that will make your job search many times harder, because they know you're not "German". I highly doubt this is about skill.
If you think some of us from the USA are bad about assuming we are the center of the world and that everybody we speak to online is from the US… you should see some of the people we live with!
Do you realize how difficult it is to move from one country to another? It's expensive as hell, and if you're a US citizen you still owe taxes on money you make while living abroad.
speaking as someone married to an American who migrated to my country.. the cost of renouncing your citizenship is far cheaper than the backward arse tax system that applies to US citizens regardless where they live, and the need to pay someone to do your taxes for you even if you owe nothing.
Once you get citizenship elsewhere (if you can) I'd recommend renounce US on sheer economic grounds alone
Primarily because it's really difficult to move countries. Even when an other country is "better", by whatever metric you may choose, the high switching cost makes the move worse for individuals unless staying in a country is really really bad. That threshold is typically when subsistence in the country of origin becomes untenable, often due to war or famine.
its pretty much the only way you would move to a first world country is be rich. most countries only take a certain number of people with certain skillsets, and have limited quotas for unskilled migration via things like spouse/family. anyone who thinks someone can just pick a country and move there is either stupid or naive
Half the population has less than 1000 bucks in savings and doesn't have a degree like an MD that would bump them to the top of the list as far as citizenship elsewhere. How do you propose people make this happen? The people who are most disadvantaged are those who would have the hardest time doing so.
I think it's definitely true that Americans get defensive when you criticize the US. I also think it's true that a huge reason for that, is because the only thing the internet seems to enjoy doing at the moment is complain about the US—no one likes to hear their country that they're living happily in trashed on constantly.
And I say that as someone who deeply enjoys complaining about the US
So I work with a lot of people from a variety of countries. Some of those countries have really bad governments. When we joke about each other's countries, it's about the governments. I remember this guy who used to work with me from the Philippines. It was near the beginning of lockdowns and just after Duterte was elected. He made fun of the shit Trump was saying and doing, and I got to joke that they had their own Trump(maybe worse) coming. Australian co-workers laugh along when we joke about their shit politicians.
What we don't do is joke about the people or the culture. That's shitty. All those people are just as much victims of their own circumstances as we all are of our own. But we're adults who work with each other every day and it's easy to remember that we're all real people. The internet however...
I haven't noticed Americans getting upset when people criticize shitty government policies or decisions. At least not from people who aren't boot-lickers from jump. The problem is when people make fun of American stereotypes. Americans are fat and loud and whatever. Like, if all you heard was people talking about Canadians being stuck up about needing things written in French or topped with poutine, it would probably get old, right? "Go cry at your Tim Horton's and take your polar bear for a walk." (okay, so I had to google Canadian stereotypes and it's a short list.)
I don't like America's gun culture either. And I hate when it comes up there's always someone who comes in and preaches the gospel of the 2nd amendment. It also doesn't feel great when people make that generalization about me. This thread is full of people saying Americans are dumb and racist. That's just shitty behavior that no one bats an eye at because it's normal to make those jokes. If I started making comments about like, French people smelling bad or (insert some other offensive thing. I don't keep track of bad stereotypes and I'm done googling it) then that would also be bad and it's a thing I think we should start calling out across the board.
You've absolutely nailed it. The problem is when people use the faults of a country to generalize or reinforce predijuce about individuals, and it is interesting how quickly some people just accept it.
I also work within an international collaboration, and the xenophobia on the internet is so shameful. There's no way any of it would fly in real life. You have to develop respect for people as individuals to work closely/effectively.
There is a % of people in every country no matter what, trash talk and think their country is the best. They are often closed minded and ironically the type of person that others like them in other counties talk trash about. Best not to stoop down and let that % do what they are gonna do.
Lol, what? You can make fun of us. We're pretty fucking funny... But like, in a sad, defeated kind of way... Like, we're sleeping in the gutter and pretending we're fine, but at least we are looking at all those stars.
We don't need to move. This is fine. We're fine. Fuck off, we're fine. You can't help us, anyway.
A good analogy to this is the emperor of America. He was just some homeless crazy dude in San Francisco in the 1860s. He attempted to price gouge the Chinese during their rice famine but shortly found himself under water on his rice contracts. This left him homeless and bitter so he named himself emperor of the United States. He somehow started printing his own money and some places feeling bad for him took it.
That's how the world sees America. Oh, the crazy folk are just down on their luck. They'll likely either die or end the world in a few years but at least they're making record profits.
So is America one or two continents? Our US schools call them North America and South America despite being connected as a single land mass.
The other fun one to spring on we United States of America citizens if that the full and proper name of Mexico is "The United Mexican States". Having Mexico have a name and a similar idea of states forming a union, but not bring the USA doing it really bugs people here.
America is indeed two continents, North and South. Continents aren't just connected land masses, they are the major tectonic plates that the earths crust is divided into. North America is on the North American plate, South America on the South American plate.
There ARE some interesting facts on this though. Unlike NA and SA, which ARE distinct continents, Europe and Asia genuinely are NOT separate continents; both are contained on the absolutely massive Eurasian tectonic plate(NA plate is technically bigger, but a lot of it's in the ocean). Another fun fact is that the absolute most north-eastern part of Siberia is technically part of North America.
The more important part of what defines continents is tectonic plates and plate movement, though the definitions used are fairly arbitrary. It's also interesting how different regions in the world define continent in different ways.
The following bit is entirely in humor:
Before the Suez and Panama canals were dug they should have been treated as a single continents? Europe and Asia need to figure out how to dig from the Black Sea to the North Sea so they get some clarity too.
Oh! And while the Evergreen ship was stuck sideways in the Suez, did that make Asia and Africa a single continent for a bit?
If we go by plate tectonics, NA and SA are distinct continents, as they are on different plates. Europe and Asia are definitely one Eurasian continent though, as they are on the same plate.
Whether it's one continent or two, the point is that it's bigger than the United States. At least I've always studied that Americans are people who live in America, either from Canada, United States, Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua, Argentina... Then you can divide them between North Americans and South Americans.
I mean, that's fine, but no one world-wide is going to hear "American" and think anything but "a citizen of The United States of America". So, what's the point of trying to push it as such? For all the hate American citizens get, you'd think you'd want to separate yourself as much as possible from the title. Canadians certainly won't like being called Americans, that's for sure.
Yes, it is much bigger than the United States, though not for our lack of trying. We had quite a century or so where we tried to conquer, buy, or steal every bit of land we could.
Today, American is still much bigger then the United States, but we US Citizens don't even really have good vocabulary for just US vs the rest of the Americas.
But English, being a de facto universal language, has good creativity to invent new words, either from native speakers or from foreign influences. For example, the word "D'oh" didn't exist until Homer Simpson (Dan Castellaneta) popularized it. And I think the word "meme" didn't exist either 40 or 50 years ago.
I think a good way to know that is to read newspapers from 100 years ago or older, and see how people from US were called.
Americans (and Canadians, we're not above this problem): "I hate our government! They lie about everything and have no regard for human rights or even basic integrety! But also I uncritically believe everything they say about other countries that they already hate and have a massive political and economic incentive to smear because their governments are obviously way worse, I know that because my government told me so."
Yeah especially if you happen to be south of us in the Americas. America works very hard to make sure the current status quo is maintained. That status quo originally won by govt agencies on behalf of the political elite's rich friends.
I call BS. I feel it's more popular than ever to dunk on the US. Like, there's still a sect of 'MURICAN PATURYOTS that get big mad, but most of us are well aware of reality.
The highest estimate for US emigrants is 9 million. Since there's no perfect way to track emigrants, the Dept of State uses available numbers from multiple sources and extrapolates it. The UN puts their estimate at about 3 million, but their data comes from censuses which can be inaccurate or non-existent.
What other countries. I thought it was supposed to be Americans didn't know geography and didn't care to remember anyone else existed.
In order for us to expend some sort of energy making fun of someone, we'd have to both think of you and work ourselves up to caring about people we know little about in places we'll literally never visit. I'd have to look up new slurs and read up on international politics and shit.
That sounds like a lot, if I'm being honest, and I'd rather rag on Ohio.
Not all of us. Some of us hate it more than you do. We are however too poor to actually fucking leave.
I'd love to travel. See the world. Experience cultures instead of look at them longingly thru a screen. Alas, its not an option. Even if I wanted to physically leave I can't afford to pay to get rid of citizenship and get established somewhere else.
Well to be quite fair, it's better to judge a country by it's progress and current state of affairs than by its past actions. Because if we judged every country by their actions in the past, not many countries would have clean hands.
From 2016-2021, I was ready to move away. I was quite disillusioned by everything. What changed? Soccer 💀. Soccer made me comically nationalist for our national teams.
Honestly being in that environment of being able to be innocently prideful of my home without thinking about the past helped put things in perspective.
I'm now prideful to be American, and proud that my home heavily invests in NATO. I'm an adult now, and I've been working to push for some more improvements in things like infrastructure. I don't cringe at 4th of July celebrations anymore, and I feel great that I'm making an impact.
You probably won't see me putting a flag outside my home, but I have a lovely high quality flag.
Our national park system is the best in the world, our ecosystem, nature, and geography are spectacular and diverse. And NASA is phenomenal.
Don't allow yourself to wallow in this cynical disillusionment. It's not good for your mental health to focus on the terrible parts of America without having the ability to change those parts.
You need to be grateful! I am sorry, I know things are bad out there, but things are worse out of the US. I know this doesn't work, but I feel like learning to be grateful for the things we have is way too important. I am grateful even for the small things in life that we all take for granted.
Don't be cynical. It's not good for you either. Your country despite it's imperfections has been THE shining beacon of hope for many immigrants. The separation between the church and state is no small thing, it's a revolution. Free speech is precious. Idk, don't let the media fool you, despite it's imperfections, USA is a great country :(
I would have loved to have been born there, received an education which I now only can dream of.
lmao look at all those downvotes. just like Reddit.
yea idk about lemmy but in reddit people get SO upset over criticizing America. it's the weirdest shit. Isn't this the same group that goes on about "THE WEST"? why are they all so spiteful of Europeans?
even the Americans criticizing America are dismissed as having internalized shame. wonder what those folks have to say about other forms of internalized bigotry...
seriously those, these fucking jingoists ought to try living in another developed nation. there's such much awful backwards shit in the US. It's pretty sad when your main point of pride that America has more iPhones than Venezuela and more evil gays than Iran
I'm not sure if you know this but there is a way going on in Eastern Europe. And if you weren't aware the US is the primary support. More than doubling both humanitarian and weapons aid the EU and individual countries have scrapped together.
I've definitely triggered the EUs in this thread about sneaking Americans 😂
I believe this is no longer quite true. It's also incredibly petty.
The US is certainly the largest singular military donor, but that should surprise no one. But in terms of longer term support EU countries in Central, Northern Europe and the Baltics are committed to supporting Ukraine and the numbers show it.
Yeah, and the biggest threat to Europe couldn't invade a corrupt and relatively impoverished country with less than a 10th of its military strength that it shares a border with and has direct rail routes into. And that was before we started to send weapons to Ukraine.
So I'm sure the only thing stopping Putin from taking over Europe isn't the UK, France or Germany, each if which has a military on par with Russia.
That's what got us Bin Laden, the Balkans wars, and a bunch of horrible terrorism everywhere.
Seriously. Trace what happened to the mujahidin leaders, and the weapons we gave them. I think you'll be surprised at the destruction they wrought all across the globe.
While you're at it, check out what the Ukrainians think the percentage of weapons we are giving them end up getting to the soldiers. Also, check out why they just fired the head of their recruitment centers. Also, the Defense Minister.
I swear, everyone is all like "TANKIE TANKIE" to anyone with an attention span longer than 6 months. Most of them don't even know what that word fucking means.
At least there isn't the stupid "red-brown alliance" smear for anyone that doesn't agree with the literal State departments propaganda. If you were all alive in the 80's, you'd be cheering on the death squad contras, and worshiping Reagan.
It's easy to boast about your country's defenses and what not when your country hasn't been regularly in devastating wars on their own territory.
The USA does have some brilliant minds of it's own, don't get me wrong. But most, if not all technology the USA has is either derived or completely developed by Europe, from Germany, the UK, or even France.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about America, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit about America over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" meme was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
Least aggressive response.
It's a copypasta meant to make fun of overly aggressive keyboard warriors but yeah, it's very un-chill indeed 😁
Holy shit, its been a while since I read this.
I love the gorilla warfare bit 🦍
Ever heard of guerilla gardening? I give you..a gorilla gardening!
This is starting to turn into gorilla marketing
You mean like this?
Assbro turfing
Stars and Stripes out for Harambe.
Non-americans really love this weird bogus narrative.
That's probably because the loudest and most overly defensive ones are the Americans you're most likely to encounter and remember in online arguments and on American news, so that colors the perception. Especially when you don't live amongst the more reasonable majority of Americans 🤷
That is not my experience at all. Most Americans get extremely defensive when someone criticizes the US, even people who know better. Many are ok with specific criticism (like, healthcare sucking), but it doesn't take much for them to revert to 'murican mode.
I have been living in the US for over a decade and been to 2/3rds of the states.
Most Americans have their talking points ready to go around certain topics: healthcare, guns etc. But if you get anything that attacks the capitalism, building the country off of slave labor, or the country being the product of a genocide, that's when the propaganda really kicks in.
Oh and if you call it propaganda, then the denialism gets even stronger.
Spaniard here, you get very, very similar reactions here from a lot of people (possibly a lower percentage) if you dare to question the process of colonization or call out the barbaric behavior of some historical figures that have become a part of the national myth. Nationalism is a brain disease.
You get the same shit from most nationalities.
Nobody is immune to propaganda.
That's really interesting. I've lived in 9 states and I can honestly say that outside of the southeast, it is legitimately difficult to consistently find people that dont think the us is a flaming sack of shit or at least headed that way. Seriously, I've heard waaaaaaaaaaaaay more negative talk on the us from Americans than anything positive. Especially in like the last decade. But this place is so damn big that anyone's experience would vary a crazy amount so that makes sense.
Are you in tech or some other field that doesn't involve interacting with different socioeconomic groups?
Most of not all states guarantee some "interesting" encounters if you leave the cities. In California I have seen Confederate flags flying, met neonazis, and plenty of Trump supporters. Trump got over 34% of the vote in California, almost 39% in Washington and over 40% in Oregon. Those percentages are not a majority, but I think it sets a floor, since Trump supporters are not exactly trash talking the US.
I have spent a lot of time doing canvassing and other activities that mean I encounter people with very different ideas, so that would definitely explain the different experience.
I think they're full of shit, for what it's worth. 33 states in 10 years? Wtf...
If you're going to accuse me of lying, at least have the decency of doing it in a reply to my post. I lived on the East Coast and traveled up and down some, then I moved to the Midwest, I got into politics and canvassed in several states plus I went on a few road trips for fun. Then I moved to the West Coast, which somewhat limited my ability to go on road trips to other states, but still, I went as far as Colorado, I spent a month there doing backpacking and visiting a few places like Denver and Aspen.
Why do you think it is so unlikely I could visit 3 states a year?
You can drive through like ten states in a weekend on the east coast
You've been to 33 states in 10 years? Why? That's absolutely unheard of here...
Maybe you guys should do that more then, it isn't unheard of in Europe.
well if an american does respond to this it proves them right if they dont respond it doesnt prove them wrong its a bad argument for an otherwise pretty dumb claim
unless americans do care i hate america and am american so idrk
If I ever have to read the bogus claim that "USA #1!!!" I'll flip my shit.
#1 in teen pregnancies maybe
#1 in prison population
#1 in school shootings
#1 in wage gap
What the US is not #1 in: happiness, progressiveness, quality of life, freedom
True. While it's NEAR the top in SOME good things, I'm pretty sure that the US is only #1 in the ones you mentioned and other bad things lol
I'm starting to get this feeling too. Most of the Americans I know, myself included, rip America a new one at any given opportunity.
There’s a certain degree of truth to it. Americans seem fine with being the butt of a joke as long as the person joking is American and not far left/right. If you offer any doubt about the political or geographic origin of your joke, it’ll often be taken poorly. I enjoy being flamed and so was eager to figure out the political joke context puzzle. +2/-16 and 6 replies, babeeee
Politics is one of the most divisive subjects you can bring up. People react emotionally because it's an emotional science. What's "right" comes down to your ethical perspective. I don't think that should be grouped in with this conversation.
It’s less that I put out an overt political view or location identifier and more that if my post seems agnostic, inferences will be made and a coin will be flipped. The funny thing is, I sometimes win the flip in one place and lose it in another. I can be +5 on lemmy and -10 on kbin because of ambiguity. I’m just like “kids getting shot is bad” and I can feel the hatred pointed at my British self. (I’m not British)
I do believe that's the response you get, people do like to assume the worst. Do you have any solid proof that any hostile response you get is from Americans? I'm still very skeptical it's a problem specific to one nation.
It’s far from unique to the US, people from India, France, China, and Russia often despise seeing outside criticism as well and they comprise over half the population of earth. And it’s mostly the topic of conversation and time of day. Were you not to have identified as American earlier, I’d have assumed you to be German or British at this hour.
🤷 As far as I'm concerned, as long as people are laughing with me and not at me I don't give a shit. I can't speak for the rest of my countrymen though.
Sometimes it’s a case of you can make fun of your own country but no one else is allowed to.
If we say "Capitalism is ruining our lives", it's fine, but if someone from Russia says "Capitalism is ruining your lives", folks are ready to throw down.
I think that's more the hypocrisy of a Russian citizen criticizing American-style capitalism and imperialism when Russia has its own brand of it.
Nobody talks more shit about America than Americans.
I know seriously lmao. I mean I know it’s anecdotal, but I’m in the US and my friends and I constantly criticize the US. Most people I know tend to agree with most criticisms, myself included.
We might overuse that comeback, but at least we don't have school shootings.
Okay, but you do realize that comeback makes you look bad right, not us? No matter your reasons or intentions, you are mocking children being murdered. Like in the example below:
American: lol British people eat spotted dicks.
A brit: lol American children get shot at school.
Wow. What a zinger, you really got me with that one, a fool I was to not recognize the comedy of children dying horrifically.
(To be clear, I didn't come up with that example randomly. I've seen the mocking of spotted dick be met with "lol child murder" more than once)
They're mocking us for letting children get murdered. Don't get all civility politics up in here if you can't even grasp the concept of the jab.
Is spotted dick political? I suppose us americans should have known it was a contentious subject that warrants jokes about child murder
It's a fucking ignorant ass jab directed at the wrong people. The majority of Americans support stricter gun laws, it is NOT the common mans fault that our centuries old political system is set up in a way that a minority party can have so much influence.
Like I already said, no matter the reasons or intentions, they ARE mocking children being murdered. Maybe it's "lol you guys let children die lol" instead of "lol child death lol", but either way children are dead and they are laughing. Meanwhile, the majority of Americans are horrified by it and pissed off nothing is being done by our government to stop it.
It's also just incredibly thin-skinned. Really, you're gonna get so offended over a joke about spotted dick that your only response is "you guys have school shootings lol".
Your responses make the meme accurate. Bravo.
I didn't personally throw any tea into the Boston harbor but you better believe I'm going to use that as ammo against a brit if I feel like it. Personal agency has no meaning when talking about entire countries.
Civility politics is cringe as fuck. Get over yourself and threaten to liberate their country instead of whining about people being mean on the internet.
A jab is supposed to be in jest... This is just fucked up. Kids died.
Then how about you do something about it instead of complaining that other people point it out?
It is not like any other developed country has that problem.
Either everything is OK to joke about or nothing is. You can have your personal line you won't cross but don't project that onto other people.
Seems like the comeback is working since it gets Yanks flustered and writing paragraphs of text as a reply lol
They are simply taking a cheap shot at victims. It makes some people feel superior.
Nobody is mocking children for being murdered, that would be disgusting.
People are mocking the very much unique to the US culture of yes, we know children are being shot in schools, and no, we aren't going to do anything about it, you crazy freedom-hating commie!
It's a macabre mocking of your crazy gun culture and politics. Not of your children. I thought that was pretty obvious.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Many wonderful people live in this country. We have so much to do - and yes, we are plagued by many horrors - but we persevere.
Instead of persevering, how about you fix the problem that no other developed country has?
What do you want me to do? Wave my hands and say some magic words and presto have everything be fixed? It doesn't fucking work that way.
I do what I can within my means. I vote every election for candidates supporting gun and mental healthcare reforms, I do my best to educate my less politically aware friends, I support activist organizations, etc... I'm fucking sorry if I'm not personally out there torching politicians houses or whatever the fuck you expect me to do, but I've got people that depend on me not being in fucking prison.
You ever considered that maybe the US deserves to be ridiculed for seeing children die and choosing to do nothing about it?
I understand it's a touchy subject, but come on. It's a serious stain on the US. The US deserves immense criticism for it.
At least over here we do have some school shootings even with stricter European gun control laws. It‘s just not as prevalent as in the US.
I guess sometimes overly criticising the US can be seen as some kind of envy. The freedom we admire but the shortcomings we don’t want to have or admit. It‘s just that this extreme bipartisanship and reluctance to talk civilly with each other is disheartening to see.
If you're allowed to mock children deaths from a mental Healthcare crisis can we mock you for your roving gangs of rape squads?
German link: https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2023/vergewaltigung-im-goerli/
Right wing sources, yay.
If you honestly compare Germany and the US, you will notice that the prevalence of rape is much higher in the US (US: ~43/100k vs. Ger: ~15/100k, source: statista.com). Comparing gang rape specifically is more difficult though, because the US doesn't seem to keep track of that (or at least i couldn't find absolute numbers). According to Wikipedia 22.8% of rapes with female victims where gang rapes. That makes ~9/100k in the US vs ~1/100k in Germany.
Then again I don't think statistics regarding a lot of crimes are easily comparable. There might be differences regarding underreporting and legal definitions that skew numbers in different ways.
How's wikipedia then?
Even more "whataboutism"
It's not whataboutism when it's on topic. You should look up that word. Also, anecdotes don't matter when you try to compare things. Statistics do though.
mental health may be one of the source causes but the cultural enabler of prolific gun ownership and worship is the missing key no other country has
edit: I will add many Americans here are pretty antigun which is great, I just wish there were another 300m like you
The overwhelming majority of so-called school shootings are single-target attacks over gang/drug disputes carried out by poor inner-city kids. They're victims of poverty and mental health, no amount of overnight gun reform will fix the illegal guns that these kids have access to.
You may, if they are prolific and not just a single crime gang doing rounds.
One of them is a stereotype based on ignorance and racism.
The other one is children getting shot at schools.
Funny how both of these things come from the US.
Huh? Americans are like the most willing to admit their country is shit of like anywhere of the Lemmy audience.... America fucking sucks, sign American. I had some dude from Pakistan super mad at me for saying women are second class citizens there the other day. Apparently they treat women super well, according to that angry guy anyway. I'm still pretty sure they don't.
As always, these things can't be generalised. Every country has people that talk about their own problems, and every country has "patriots" that will deny anything is happening. There are just a lot of Americans on the internet, so people notice those who relentlessly praise America more.
After all, few countries literally ingrain "[country] exceptionalism" into their population in their school system. Many Americans, while thinking they are pointing out problems, still say "but it's still better than almost any other country at X".
Romania doesn't ingrain Romanian exceptionalism, but it does keep a lot of the REALLY horrible things Romanians have done out of the history classes.
Starting soon, the Romanian holocaust and communist period are going to be taught in high school history classes. AUR (basically our Republican party) is completely flipping their lid right now. They're a small party, but very loud and aggressively ignorant.
Sounds like 'murica
Stay strong, my friend
Instead of "thinking something is true about an other country" why don't you research the topic? Laws are easy to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_related_laws_in_Pakistan
While yes, there were some Sharia laws back in the 1980's, many recent laws in the last 20 years have been giving more rights to women.
And that is the problem with many of you Americans, you read something online once about an other country or hear it on one of your news stations, and you instantly believe it without ever checking if it is factual or not.
The same type of people exist in other countries of course, but the blatant ignorance of Americans about other countries is staggering.
XD ah yes, legally it's the same, so that's how it shakes out on the ground for sure!
Americans when literally anything
THIS IS BULLSHIT!!! YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT!!!
WHAT? CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!
I'm American and I can confirm this is true
How do you know somebody's American without meeting them first?
You hear them.
Unless we're talking protesting or voting. Then they're asleep.
Nah. Democrats protest, Republicans vote. Funny how one of those groups wields a grossly exaggerated amount of political power.
Uh, what? I live here and I shit on it all the time.
Yeah. as an American I shit on America more than anyone. I got no idea what Op is talking abot.
It's very much more of a
American criticises America: crickets
Non-American criticises America: hooooo boy here comes the nationalism
American folks want to poke fun at other countries? I say no problem, break a leg! Actually please don't because it'd probably bankrupt you.
A culturally relevant joke at our expense that still has class? See guys, it IS possible. You, in fact, CAN make fun of America without going "lol your children get shot lol".
Damn that smarts.
I'd go to get that burn checked but my annual deductible is more than a used car cost before the profiteering here drove up the car prices so high.
Don’t worry, health insurance is on the rise too!
When do we do this? Seriously... Show me. I'll help you shit all over that miserable person.
I laughed... then cried. You're not wrong.
I haven't encountered Americans getting mad over that but what I have encountered is them thinking everything involves the US, especially lately. For example people claiming the Ukraine - Russia war is a proxy war between the US and Russia instead or that NATO = US. Like chill, your country is not relevant to everything in the world.
"Hey, isn't nati the one that drone strikes weddings?" "No, that the US, that us." "But america is part of nato..." "Yes, but you can't just" "Why would nato do that?"
Classicrussianbadgermoment.gif
The Ukraine conflict isn't a RU - US proxy war in the traditional sense but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of foreign aid to Ukraine has come from the US, more than double the amount of aid given by the EU as a whole. It's not hard to assume that Ukraine would be in a much worse place without America's support.
Yea, of course it has, the Budapest Memorandum says they have to help, it's a defensive pact they got in return for giving up nukes. But people are pretending the US is like the instigator and driver of this conflict even though they are literally just one of the countries providing aid to Ukraine.
You aren't totally wrong, but
And if you look at it by gdp the US isn't even top 10 and the US, UK and northern Ireland are the only countries with a pact obligating them to help Ukraine.
reddit moment
Thanks for the block request
good luck with your echo chamber
This is the case for every country. You just see it with the US a lot more since it of course has the biggest footprint on the English-language side of the internet.
Not even close. Also doesn't help that 'muricans have a very distorted view on how their country is perceived
I think most of us on the internet hear about it constantly and it's pretty hard not to understand how we are perceived.
Ok, can you tell us then how the other countries in the world perceive the US?
Pushy, ignorant, reactionary, racist, isolationist, nationalist. Stick our noses into the matters of other countries where we don't belong. Assume everything is centered around us. War/military happy. Arrogant. Loud.
Not sure if I'm missing any, but these are the prevailing things I see when people are talking about the US and the people who live here.
What is hard is that there are of course people (many people, even) that match one or multiple of those descriptions. But the same as it is silly to generalize all of Europe (or even any one European country), it is silly to generalize all Americans.
According to one source, the only media that for a long time made it into the states is media that the US government approves of. I could go into detail about it, but it shows up quite prominently in this video.
I think other countries are a lot more open to self deprecation as part of their humour / culture. Not saying there aren't some examples of this in America, it just doesn't seem to be as prevalent as in British comedy for example.
Wait I thought we hated ourselves?
Yeah I thought it was mostly other Americans saying these things
Wait, I thought the whole world is America
National boundaries just divide workers to obscure the fact that they have more in common with each other than with the ruling classes.
No disagreement from me comrade.
The real struggle from the start
As a european, this applies to both sides lol
as a southamerican I remind you that there are more than two sides.
Ah yeah of course
It usually doesn't bother me unless it's something like this
American- criticizes something foreign
Every single reply to that comment- "School shootings!! Hahaha!! Dead kids!!! Hehehehe!!"
We have other things you can criticize! Like the fact people will give you unsweetened tea with ice then say you can have some sugar packets!
Scourge of the North! Sugar Tea Soup!
Or when they extropolate from America the country being shit, to every individual American being shit for having the audacity to have been born here.
Most of us would also rather it wasn't like this, but our families, friends, and livelihoods are here, so generally speaking it's not practical to just up and leave. And our political system is to broken for us to really fix via voting
Trash on the country all you want, I'll join in with you - but don't blame the folks who are just trying to live the best we can in this fucked up country
This recently
This I don't understand. Where is this coming from and who honestly would be okay with being called a big dumb dildo and laugh along like it's such a well known fact about their country? We're a lot of things, act like we own the world and everyone owes us money and gratitude, eat like shit while letting everyone know how to be healthy, use little creamer cups instead of cream. We're not idiots.
Kinda like how the entirety of France isn't rude and not all Greek people are cheap
Exactly, the problem is the first panel, not the second. But there's no monopoly on participation there.
We are pretty dumb though. On the whole. We've had a lot of our higher education people emigrate.
As an American you can make fun of America all you want. It sucks here.
The only Europeans I’ve had a problem with are the Danes. They have absolutely no sense of humor.
Or was it the Swedes? I don’t know. I mean they’re right there together. They’re basically the same people right?
Hehehehehehe
There are only two types of people I hate. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
Why not the french or the british?
This was a joke, we don't actually hate the dutch
You might not, but I haven't heard them apologize for the Congo.
I agree, but I don't think in black and white. My Dutch friend is probably completely oblivious to any of that, and he is a good person. Most people are probably in that same situation.
Would it be good for the government (or any government) to come out and apologize for shitty things that happened in the past? If course. But that isn't a reason to use blanket "we hate these types of people" statements seriously.
No, sorry, they have a blood debt, they must be purged.
First of all: How dare You!?
It's definitely the Swedes.
No, we're Germany's hat. Tiny, tiny hat.
Eingebunden.
Rather that than Swedish!
I'll just say that I've had different experiences for the most part.
Same. In most of the interactions I have had with Americans here (including myself), they have been generally pretty aware of the faults of the United States and willing to admit to them.
As others have said, we often make fun of ourselves. On these platforms, the liberal side of America is very vocal about the conservative side of America. Healthcare, guns, cost of living, etc. are something we're constantly being made fun of (often from ourselves).
If you've experienced pushback, it's likely because it gets stale as a subject. We know our country has problem; most of us feel powerless to change it.
Maybe that's what happens when you have this much diversity in a country. We're not like the French who can all unify and protest when needed.
edit: Rereading this, it makes it sound like I think diversity is a bad thing. Didn't mean to imply that, its just that we're so different its harder to unify.
Americans do a lot of stupid things, but they are most likely to be self critical in this space. I think this meme should talk about Western Europe instead, because they have many problems, but they are so often never willing to accept criticism. They're quick to call the US racist, but in my experience, Europe has so much racism it's crazy it's viewed as this anti racist place.
Ask any "America is so racist" European about their thoughts on the Roma people
Or turks. Or Moroccans. Or Africans.
Or other Europeans. Damn Europeans, they ruined Europe!
I'm not sure what are you talking about. I'm Spanish and the first people to criticize Spain is Spanish people. Probably you've never even heard of all the problems our country has. Unemployment, corruption, house okupation, lots of small crime, mafia related crime for all the drugs trying to enter Europe, lots of immigration as Spain is one of the doors to Europe... I can go on. For all of these there's a lot of debate and not much being done so far...
Bueno momento para visitar España?
More or less, just keep a good eye on your wallet and it should be fine.
I (a US citizen) literally didn't get a job in Germany because one member on the team objected because I didn't speak German yet. The company is "English first" and I worked in the US division previously. So yeah, Europeans are certainly as capable of being racist. And they didn't even try to hide it!
Is that racism?
Easily could be, since race is a social contruct. See the Irish not being "white." Probably just nationalism though.
Ah yes, the English language speaking race
I see you deal in absolutes. The person wanted a fluent German speaker despite being an English first company. Put it together in your head.
Yeah, it's racist to hire another more qualified candidate that can speak multiple languages in a setting that would benefit from that skill...
Idk about OP, but from my experience, you can speak German perfectly correctly, but have an accent, and that will make your job search many times harder, because they know you're not "German". I highly doubt this is about skill.
Clearly you must have all the details about where I worked and applied already. What an amazing ability!
If you think some of us from the USA are bad about assuming we are the center of the world and that everybody we speak to online is from the US… you should see some of the people we live with!
I met a Midwest chick on a plane who said she didn't believe other countries existed.
I'm still not sure if she was dumb, crazy, or a pathological liar.
None of those negate the other options.
You sure she didn't mean North Dakota?
Because same. I'm still convinced that it's fake.
Bruh who you talkin bout I don't give a shit about this fucked up country
Bruh take a look at the downvotes on this post compared to other posts.
Those are the people I’m talkin bout.
Maybe people are downvoting because it's just not a very good meme?
No, it’s the children who are wrong.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler: A guide to online discussion"
You would say that, wouldn’t you Hitler!
Then why dont you leave it?
Do you realize how difficult it is to move from one country to another? It's expensive as hell, and if you're a US citizen you still owe taxes on money you make while living abroad.
Additionally, the cost to renounce US citizenship is the highest in the world by a large margin. $2350 + exit taxes, as of this writing. https://common.usembassy.gov/en/renounce-citizenship/
Next highest is Jamaica at $1040 as of this writing. https://congenjamaica-ny.org/renunciation-of-jamaican-citizenship/
The USA is an inescapable hellhole for the poor, so think for a few seconds before you make another shit comment like this.
speaking as someone married to an American who migrated to my country.. the cost of renouncing your citizenship is far cheaper than the backward arse tax system that applies to US citizens regardless where they live, and the need to pay someone to do your taxes for you even if you owe nothing.
Once you get citizenship elsewhere (if you can) I'd recommend renounce US on sheer economic grounds alone
You only pay the US taxes if you'd owe more to federal tax than you're paying to the host country, but yeah.
Alright, fair. I know already after the other 400 replies saying the same exact thing.
Primarily because it's really difficult to move countries. Even when an other country is "better", by whatever metric you may choose, the high switching cost makes the move worse for individuals unless staying in a country is really really bad. That threshold is typically when subsistence in the country of origin becomes untenable, often due to war or famine.
ok then
its pretty much the only way you would move to a first world country is be rich. most countries only take a certain number of people with certain skillsets, and have limited quotas for unskilled migration via things like spouse/family. anyone who thinks someone can just pick a country and move there is either stupid or naive
Well i guess im the latter now
I was a bit harsh but nah mate your all good. we all gotta learn at some point
Tons of migrants aren't rich and are still capable.
Half the population has less than 1000 bucks in savings and doesn't have a degree like an MD that would bump them to the top of the list as far as citizenship elsewhere. How do you propose people make this happen? The people who are most disadvantaged are those who would have the hardest time doing so.
I think it's definitely true that Americans get defensive when you criticize the US. I also think it's true that a huge reason for that, is because the only thing the internet seems to enjoy doing at the moment is complain about the US—no one likes to hear their country that they're living happily in trashed on constantly.
And I say that as someone who deeply enjoys complaining about the US
So I work with a lot of people from a variety of countries. Some of those countries have really bad governments. When we joke about each other's countries, it's about the governments. I remember this guy who used to work with me from the Philippines. It was near the beginning of lockdowns and just after Duterte was elected. He made fun of the shit Trump was saying and doing, and I got to joke that they had their own Trump(maybe worse) coming. Australian co-workers laugh along when we joke about their shit politicians.
What we don't do is joke about the people or the culture. That's shitty. All those people are just as much victims of their own circumstances as we all are of our own. But we're adults who work with each other every day and it's easy to remember that we're all real people. The internet however...
I haven't noticed Americans getting upset when people criticize shitty government policies or decisions. At least not from people who aren't boot-lickers from jump. The problem is when people make fun of American stereotypes. Americans are fat and loud and whatever. Like, if all you heard was people talking about Canadians being stuck up about needing things written in French or topped with poutine, it would probably get old, right? "Go cry at your Tim Horton's and take your polar bear for a walk." (okay, so I had to google Canadian stereotypes and it's a short list.)
I don't like America's gun culture either. And I hate when it comes up there's always someone who comes in and preaches the gospel of the 2nd amendment. It also doesn't feel great when people make that generalization about me. This thread is full of people saying Americans are dumb and racist. That's just shitty behavior that no one bats an eye at because it's normal to make those jokes. If I started making comments about like, French people smelling bad or (insert some other offensive thing. I don't keep track of bad stereotypes and I'm done googling it) then that would also be bad and it's a thing I think we should start calling out across the board.
You've absolutely nailed it. The problem is when people use the faults of a country to generalize or reinforce predijuce about individuals, and it is interesting how quickly some people just accept it.
I also work within an international collaboration, and the xenophobia on the internet is so shameful. There's no way any of it would fly in real life. You have to develop respect for people as individuals to work closely/effectively.
There is a % of people in every country no matter what, trash talk and think their country is the best. They are often closed minded and ironically the type of person that others like them in other counties talk trash about. Best not to stoop down and let that % do what they are gonna do.
All/hot is exactly like this but the complete opposite
Lol, what? You can make fun of us. We're pretty fucking funny... But like, in a sad, defeated kind of way... Like, we're sleeping in the gutter and pretending we're fine, but at least we are looking at all those stars.
We don't need to move. This is fine. We're fine. Fuck off, we're fine. You can't help us, anyway.
A good analogy to this is the emperor of America. He was just some homeless crazy dude in San Francisco in the 1860s. He attempted to price gouge the Chinese during their rice famine but shortly found himself under water on his rice contracts. This left him homeless and bitter so he named himself emperor of the United States. He somehow started printing his own money and some places feeling bad for him took it.
That's how the world sees America. Oh, the crazy folk are just down on their luck. They'll likely either die or end the world in a few years but at least they're making record profits.
All hail Emporer Norton!
Yeah, we're damn fine!
That's exactly what happens to me when I tell them America is a continent. Like, WTF?
So is America one or two continents? Our US schools call them North America and South America despite being connected as a single land mass.
The other fun one to spring on we United States of America citizens if that the full and proper name of Mexico is "The United Mexican States". Having Mexico have a name and a similar idea of states forming a union, but not bring the USA doing it really bugs people here.
America is indeed two continents, North and South. Continents aren't just connected land masses, they are the major tectonic plates that the earths crust is divided into. North America is on the North American plate, South America on the South American plate.
There ARE some interesting facts on this though. Unlike NA and SA, which ARE distinct continents, Europe and Asia genuinely are NOT separate continents; both are contained on the absolutely massive Eurasian tectonic plate(NA plate is technically bigger, but a lot of it's in the ocean). Another fun fact is that the absolute most north-eastern part of Siberia is technically part of North America.
there are various thoughts on this matter
Well, they're separated by the Panama canal, so by the same token that Africa and Asia aren't the same land mass, neither are the Americas.
The more important part of what defines continents is tectonic plates and plate movement, though the definitions used are fairly arbitrary. It's also interesting how different regions in the world define continent in different ways.
The following bit is entirely in humor:
Before the Suez and Panama canals were dug they should have been treated as a single continents? Europe and Asia need to figure out how to dig from the Black Sea to the North Sea so they get some clarity too.
Oh! And while the Evergreen ship was stuck sideways in the Suez, did that make Asia and Africa a single continent for a bit?
I was taught that North and South America formed one large continent called the Americas.
This makes complete sense. But let’s not act like Europe isn’t just a peninsula of Asia.
If we go by plate tectonics, NA and SA are distinct continents, as they are on different plates. Europe and Asia are definitely one Eurasian continent though, as they are on the same plate.
Whether it's one continent or two, the point is that it's bigger than the United States. At least I've always studied that Americans are people who live in America, either from Canada, United States, Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua, Argentina... Then you can divide them between North Americans and South Americans.
I mean, that's fine, but no one world-wide is going to hear "American" and think anything but "a citizen of The United States of America". So, what's the point of trying to push it as such? For all the hate American citizens get, you'd think you'd want to separate yourself as much as possible from the title. Canadians certainly won't like being called Americans, that's for sure.
Yes, it is much bigger than the United States, though not for our lack of trying. We had quite a century or so where we tried to conquer, buy, or steal every bit of land we could.
Today, American is still much bigger then the United States, but we US Citizens don't even really have good vocabulary for just US vs the rest of the Americas.
But English, being a de facto universal language, has good creativity to invent new words, either from native speakers or from foreign influences. For example, the word "D'oh" didn't exist until Homer Simpson (Dan Castellaneta) popularized it. And I think the word "meme" didn't exist either 40 or 50 years ago.
I think a good way to know that is to read newspapers from 100 years ago or older, and see how people from US were called.
We’ll just one-up the crazy: ‘Murica is the ONLY continent.
I'm American, from South America. I think maybe the post refers to the gringos :-)
🤔 I once called a pothole a 'Colombian speedbump' and my local relatives could not appreciate it. QED
Laughing about yourself (or your own country) is sadly not a skill everyone possesses. People who can are the best :D
You haven't seen Voronezh speedbump.
That is not a speedbump, it is russian artisanship to produce a detailed 3d artwork version of this:
I remember episode of Galileo about this. This one probably made in Moscow or Petersburg.
Where's the bit about Americans making fun of America and talking shit about it?
Americans (and Canadians, we're not above this problem): "I hate our government! They lie about everything and have no regard for human rights or even basic integrety! But also I uncritically believe everything they say about other countries that they already hate and have a massive political and economic incentive to smear because their governments are obviously way worse, I know that because my government told me so."
So basically a hexbear, got it.
As long as you have no oil, there's no reason to fear us.
Or democratically elect a left-leaning government, or give away land to your own poor citizens to develop instead of to a company.
Yeah especially if you happen to be south of us in the Americas. America works very hard to make sure the current status quo is maintained. That status quo originally won by govt agencies on behalf of the political elite's rich friends.
Cynbersyn could have changed the world. Rest in power Allende.
Yeah the CIA doesn't like any of that too much.
Look at you trying to stir the pot. How cute. <3
Eh, not my impression at all
As long as your country has no oil, you can insult them without fear of retribution
This is just more us versus them. Distraction
I call BS. I feel it's more popular than ever to dunk on the US. Like, there's still a sect of 'MURICAN PATURYOTS that get big mad, but most of us are well aware of reality.
Btw USA is the 12th richest country on Earth according to World Bank GDP per capita statistics
In the same place they keep their universal healthcare.
In Canada?
That's not true in the slightest.
The highest estimate for US emigrants is 9 million. Since there's no perfect way to track emigrants, the Dept of State uses available numbers from multiple sources and extrapolates it. The UN puts their estimate at about 3 million, but their data comes from censuses which can be inaccurate or non-existent.
Pew puts the number of college or postgraduate educated immigrants at about 13 million.
Even if we assume all of the emigrants are highly educated, we still have a net positive educated immigration.
There are a lot of good reasons to dislike the US, but we have always been pretty good about bringing in educated individuals.
What other countries. I thought it was supposed to be Americans didn't know geography and didn't care to remember anyone else existed.
In order for us to expend some sort of energy making fun of someone, we'd have to both think of you and work ourselves up to caring about people we know little about in places we'll literally never visit. I'd have to look up new slurs and read up on international politics and shit.
That sounds like a lot, if I'm being honest, and I'd rather rag on Ohio.
reading the comments is making me exhausted
This isn't true and how dare you suggest otherwise! 🌼
nuclear launch detected
IIT: dozens of extremely sensitive Americans not getting the irony
IIT = In intergalactic thread?
Well... Obviously... erm... Yes, obviously I'm using the original latin form. Of course.
We’ll show you how much we can take a joke by down voting this comment!
(Yes, this comment will be downvoted too)
Didn't vote + outplayed + you predicted wrong + go touch grass
You sure showed me the error of my ways!
in the name of redbull I will nuke your ass with my spare sitting in the garage
Isn't redbull originally Thai?
everything in the us is originally from somewhere else. Everything except for burritos and guns.
Guns existed long before the US was even founded
tools and clothing existed before any of these dumb nations or its people existed
More like China…
On the internet, maybe?
So far my impression has been that this is less of a problem on Lemmy compared to other places
Gringos are an special kind
I know you, hi! 👋
It's exciting when I see users I recognize 😋
Well thats a Same moment.
hi
Not all of us. Some of us hate it more than you do. We are however too poor to actually fucking leave.
I'd love to travel. See the world. Experience cultures instead of look at them longingly thru a screen. Alas, its not an option. Even if I wanted to physically leave I can't afford to pay to get rid of citizenship and get established somewhere else.
Relatable AF.
Well to be quite fair, it's better to judge a country by it's progress and current state of affairs than by its past actions. Because if we judged every country by their actions in the past, not many countries would have clean hands.
From 2016-2021, I was ready to move away. I was quite disillusioned by everything. What changed? Soccer 💀. Soccer made me comically nationalist for our national teams.
Honestly being in that environment of being able to be innocently prideful of my home without thinking about the past helped put things in perspective.
I'm now prideful to be American, and proud that my home heavily invests in NATO. I'm an adult now, and I've been working to push for some more improvements in things like infrastructure. I don't cringe at 4th of July celebrations anymore, and I feel great that I'm making an impact.
You probably won't see me putting a flag outside my home, but I have a lovely high quality flag.
Our national park system is the best in the world, our ecosystem, nature, and geography are spectacular and diverse. And NASA is phenomenal.
Don't allow yourself to wallow in this cynical disillusionment. It's not good for your mental health to focus on the terrible parts of America without having the ability to change those parts.
You need to be grateful! I am sorry, I know things are bad out there, but things are worse out of the US. I know this doesn't work, but I feel like learning to be grateful for the things we have is way too important. I am grateful even for the small things in life that we all take for granted.
Don't be cynical. It's not good for you either. Your country despite it's imperfections has been THE shining beacon of hope for many immigrants. The separation between the church and state is no small thing, it's a revolution. Free speech is precious. Idk, don't let the media fool you, despite it's imperfections, USA is a great country :(
I would have loved to have been born there, received an education which I now only can dream of.
Yeah that's what happens
Meh. Little dogs gotta bark.
lmao look at all those downvotes. just like Reddit.
yea idk about lemmy but in reddit people get SO upset over criticizing America. it's the weirdest shit. Isn't this the same group that goes on about "THE WEST"? why are they all so spiteful of Europeans?
even the Americans criticizing America are dismissed as having internalized shame. wonder what those folks have to say about other forms of internalized bigotry...
seriously those, these fucking jingoists ought to try living in another developed nation. there's such much awful backwards shit in the US. It's pretty sad when your main point of pride that America has more iPhones than Venezuela and more evil gays than Iran
...soo its at 488 upvotes. Is there some way downs don't reduce the upvotes?
you can view them separately, somewhere in settings, your app may vary, desktop avail
Your meme adds nothing to the discussion and is just blanket inflammatory.
America just sucks... and I don't think it's the goverments fault but the normal people living there.
Weird take but ok
It's all fun and games until you run to us for bombs 😂
Which were mostly the product of European minds.
And yet Europe continues to be unable to defend itself and USA leads the way.
Can we not import this braindead rhetoric from reddit too.
Why not? This thread hits literally every other obnoxious take on the topic.
... You really think this place is more enlightened than reddit? It's identical except for the number of people.
I'm not sure if you know this but there is a way going on in Eastern Europe. And if you weren't aware the US is the primary support. More than doubling both humanitarian and weapons aid the EU and individual countries have scrapped together.
I've definitely triggered the EUs in this thread about sneaking Americans 😂
I believe this is no longer quite true. It's also incredibly petty.
The US is certainly the largest singular military donor, but that should surprise no one. But in terms of longer term support EU countries in Central, Northern Europe and the Baltics are committed to supporting Ukraine and the numbers show it.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Yeah, and the biggest threat to Europe couldn't invade a corrupt and relatively impoverished country with less than a 10th of its military strength that it shares a border with and has direct rail routes into. And that was before we started to send weapons to Ukraine.
So I'm sure the only thing stopping Putin from taking over Europe isn't the UK, France or Germany, each if which has a military on par with Russia.
Being proud of being the sole reason a proxy war can continue is not a good thing.
That's where you're wrong.
That's what got us Bin Laden, the Balkans wars, and a bunch of horrible terrorism everywhere.
Seriously. Trace what happened to the mujahidin leaders, and the weapons we gave them. I think you'll be surprised at the destruction they wrought all across the globe.
While you're at it, check out what the Ukrainians think the percentage of weapons we are giving them end up getting to the soldiers. Also, check out why they just fired the head of their recruitment centers. Also, the Defense Minister.
I swear, everyone is all like "TANKIE TANKIE" to anyone with an attention span longer than 6 months. Most of them don't even know what that word fucking means.
At least there isn't the stupid "red-brown alliance" smear for anyone that doesn't agree with the literal State departments propaganda. If you were all alive in the 80's, you'd be cheering on the death squad contras, and worshiping Reagan.
Add another tankie to the ban pile
I welcome your hate.
Do you remember when being a liberal meant being anti-war? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Oh okay, we'll let Russia and China have their way with eastern Europe then. Fuck those those guys.
Delusional behavior here, 👏.
It's easy to boast about your country's defenses and what not when your country hasn't been regularly in devastating wars on their own territory.
The USA does have some brilliant minds of it's own, don't get me wrong. But most, if not all technology the USA has is either derived or completely developed by Europe, from Germany, the UK, or even France.
👌👍 I'm sure it has nothing to do with the anemic funding or the 70 years America has spent making sure it can project power anywhere on the planet.
Good Lord 🤣
An american saying "don't come to us for bombs" is like a mexican saying don't come to us for tacos.
I think they're referring to vietnam when the french requested the ? Eisenhower admin to nuke dien-bien-fu.