As a mobile developer, I got an email from google saying they're going to be adding new memory restrictions in apps and it'll crash if you exceed them.
Thanks google, for buying all the ram, and then punishing us for it.
i can see how this might evolve... someone, the app developer or the user, will end up having to pay google to let an app use more ram than google allows it to for 'free'.
So, the restrictions are set by the devices OEM and can be based around how much ram the device has, so I think the microtransaction would be with them, not google.
They need this to compete with Apple, apple runs on a lot less Ram because it imposes such limits already, simply by not having as much RAM to begin with
Anyone using Electron to build any greenfield app is a fucking moron, full stop.
When you have to consume 300+Mb of memory just to display 15Kb of text, when the exact same thing can be done in native code for less than 2Mb of memory, “moron” is the kind and gentle word to use.
Excuse me, but did you not see my fancy graphic and animation? And my cool autoplaying adverts? And the dickbar asking you to subscribe to my annoying newsletter?
I don't know what web you're looking for, but it's not the one I (and my many clients) design for. /s
/s I'm not a web designer or coder. I only host plain html. Shut up. It's sarcasm / satire done poorly.
I was working for individuals and local independent businesses... I have noticed how much I cared about customers decreased a lot when they became massive corporations.
No monitors above 1920x1200 and they must code in bright sunlight at least 8 hours a day. I'm convinced some websites look like ass because the developers haven't look at anything below 4k. Maybe ever. Some may not have seen sunlight in years. Not everything needs to be made for dark viewing with white text everywhere.
Oh god, yes, I wish they had to work in a bright environment. Every other website (and even some desktop applications) feel like it was coded by someone who hasn't left their basement since Obama was still in office.
I mean, seriously, how can people unironically say stuff like 'black text on a white background hurts my eyes'? Turn on the fricking lights damn it. Staying in badly lit environments is bad for your eyesight anyway.
Also, while we're at it, I am also not a fan of grey text on a grey background. Okay, rant over.
I've found most websites that look like ass on a 24" 1920x1200 screen (or really any desktop monitor) is because they are designed for a 5-6" cell phone screen.
My natively-vertical screens (EIZO RadiForce RX320) fuck things up even more with a 1536×2048 resolution. And yes, natively vertical, so sub-pixel rendering works exactly as intended.
Gross. I posted that from a MacBook Pro on two 4k screens and I turn those shits vertical and shape my windows on normal 16:9 or 4:3 ratios like a decent human being.
Oh, so you're one of those fake MacBook Pro users who actually care about their productivity, not the real ones who care about looking productive in coffee shops and open plan offices.
😉
There were websites that did way more than the typical framework bundled REACT crapfest with way fewer resources 20 years ago - those developers didn't have any problems making them.
The free lunch of being lazy and expecting the user to upgrade their way out of bad, inefficient code needs to end.
The problem is crunch happens toward the end and no sane company would do it.
It is kinda what needs to be done though. QA complaining the experience is poor doesn't have the same driving factor. Fuck polish, make it feel good first
Look, that water is complicated. Cross-post a Peertube video in a response to this comment. Lemmy and mbin and piefed etc. do mostly inter-operate transparently, I even see folks from Mastodon occasionally, they're the ones that relentlessly @ people, but that's about as far as this anus will distend.
While I agree that most websites ship way too much js, there are many possible use cases which aren't just to facilitate tracking and data collection. Some legit uses could be animations which cannot be achieved easily with just CSS, or the ability to update data asynchronously without reloading the page.
I just have a flag the pages can have that prevents it from loading any of the adops shit, so I can measure my performance improvements for my own sanity.
LOL, just turning on Windows will blow that up. Then, opening Chrome... LMAO. Can you even run on 4GB of RAM anymore? Like, Raspberry Pis have over 4GB now.
You absolutely can. I have Linux with Hyprland and it is less than 2gb doing nothing. You can probably run ARM boards and do the same. I think with browser it is still less than 4Gb. Your system just needs to be free of corporate garbage.
I guess if you're running 32-bit, but in 64-bit land the word size is double so it'll barebones run on double the 32-bit system (at minimum). Once you open a modern browser, it opens like 6 tabs (with a blank tab); there are background tabs. Pictures and active media consume a large amount of bandwidth and memory, which is a con against the modern web. I guess we should go back to BBSs.
I also don't run "corporate garbage." I use FOSS exclusively. But Windows, and its svchost'd jobs, eats over 2GiB ram idling.
Right, but the browser hasn't opened any web pages yet and you have not started your IDE (for example, Rust Analyzer takes a massive amount of RAM) and so on.
I think 8GB is probably a little bit more realistic, workable with, but likely still a lot of pain...
I generally support the sentiment.
Though here I am with 64GB and it's still often swapping. (I'm already running optimized Linux)
Up until very recently (its system drive blew up) I was running a server (raspberry pi zero 2 w) with 512MB of RAM. It werked fine. At any moment I had ~1/4 of the RAM free. And I was running a bunch of services, like ssh, unbound, pi-hole, opentracker and a test website.
I also have another machine with 2GB of RAM running bookstack, an ssh gateway, opentracker, a KMS for activating windows machines, another website, naemon with the thruk frontend and probably something else I'm forgetting abt.
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2GB? Barely enough for the VM of the Docker of the flatpack for the cloud mouse driver's DRM!
Dicker is the new container virtualization technology.
it uses middle-out compression
👉👈
✊
It's been almost a year since I binged Silicon Valley, soon time to do it again!
I'm worried about the size of my container. Is 2gb big enough?
They misspelt 640K
Instructions unclear, the site is now best viewed with at 640K Transcendent HD.
Okay but only if that comes with 640KHz refresh rate
Your 100 MB webäpp is still shit, in every metric.
What about in imperial?
Yeah, they said "inch every metric"
If you can't do it in 64K, it's not worth doing.
Bill Gates said you'd never need more than that.
Hot take: node.js was a mistake
js was a mistake
As somebody whose most familiar language is JavaScript, I agree.
Hotter(?) take: JavaScript is a mistake
JavaScript was a mistake.
Electron was a colossal mistake.
I've been a node dev for the past 10 years or so now?
Moved here from C#. I'm still quite surprised that it became the dominate language/runtime or whatever.
As a mobile developer, I got an email from google saying they're going to be adding new memory restrictions in apps and it'll crash if you exceed them.
Thanks google, for buying all the ram, and then punishing us for it.
i can see how this might evolve... someone, the app developer or the user, will end up having to pay google to let an app use more ram than google allows it to for 'free'.
So, the restrictions are set by the devices OEM and can be based around how much ram the device has, so I think the microtransaction would be with them, not google.
What are the limits? There's no way this could be done correctly without applying different limits to games vs some compass app or whatever.
Its not explicitly mentioned. Just that itll be variable by the device and how much ram it has and be controlled by the device OEM.
It did talk about how you might get throttled before it crashes as well.
They need this to compete with Apple, apple runs on a lot less Ram because it imposes such limits already, simply by not having as much RAM to begin with
Anyone using Electron to build any greenfield app is a fucking moron, full stop.
When you have to consume 300+Mb of memory just to display 15Kb of text, when the exact same thing can be done in native code for less than 2Mb of memory, “moron” is the kind and gentle word to use.
Excuse me, but did you not see my fancy graphic and animation? And my cool autoplaying adverts? And the dickbar asking you to subscribe to my annoying newsletter?
I don't know what web you're looking for, but it's not the one I (and my many clients) design for. /s
/s I'm not a web designer or coder. I only host plain html. Shut up. It's sarcasm / satire done poorly.
Just use Qt and you're already cross-platform.
Or if it has to be web, you can get crazy far with a 15 kB HTML document and possibly some native JS.
also it has a stupid unconventional design that breaks random things on Linux
4k fullscreen uncompressed picture is a bit under 24MB. (3840*2160/1024/1024*3 = 23.73)
Which is why you show a lower-res preview as default. Don't want to wait a fucking minute to decide if i like your picture or not.
Which reminds me, Chrome/ium/Firefox's dev tools have a bandwith limiting feature. A lot of so-called web developers don't know that.
Really? I did a little web dev as a side role when I worked in a small shop and even I knew about those tools.
Reducing load times under highly throttled speeds was like crack to me.
Yes entire page load was 120kB. But what about 76kB? 2 hours well spent damn it!!
Yeah thats because you do this thing where you care about your work. As far as I can tell most people don’t do that.
I was working for individuals and local independent businesses... I have noticed how much I cared about customers decreased a lot when they became massive corporations.
or 29.66 MB @ 10-bit
I used to have hard drives smaller than that.
Why would you have that at 100% on your webpage? I mean with the special exception of looking for enormous photos.
Also, you'd store it, and download it (to your webpage) compressed.
No monitors above 1920x1200 and they must code in bright sunlight at least 8 hours a day. I'm convinced some websites look like ass because the developers haven't look at anything below 4k. Maybe ever. Some may not have seen sunlight in years. Not everything needs to be made for dark viewing with white text everywhere.
Oh god, yes, I wish they had to work in a bright environment. Every other website (and even some desktop applications) feel like it was coded by someone who hasn't left their basement since Obama was still in office.
I mean, seriously, how can people unironically say stuff like 'black text on a white background hurts my eyes'? Turn on the fricking lights damn it. Staying in badly lit environments is bad for your eyesight anyway.
Also, while we're at it, I am also not a fan of grey text on a grey background. Okay, rant over.
It's you! You're the bugger who replaced all the mild amber streetlights with harsh blue-pumped mini-suns!
I have 4k screen and half of the websites are cellphone-like column in the middle. WTF is this shit?
Designer != Web developer
Your anger is misdirected.
Bold of you to assume most sites and apps have designers.
"I can build my website in 5 minutes using SquirtSpace or Bro-Daddy! Who needs IT anymore."
"I asked ChatGPT to prompt Claude to build my site."
Even the ones that don't are following designers, just not ones they work with.
Those giant JavaScript frameworks, and more importantly for design, CSS frameworks don't pop out of thin air. .
The entire world was and still is in material design because it was the blessed Google design.
I've found most websites that look like ass on a 24" 1920x1200 screen (or really any desktop monitor) is because they are designed for a 5-6" cell phone screen.
My horizontal screens have this exact resolution.
My natively-vertical screens (EIZO RadiForce RX320) fuck things up even more with a 1536×2048 resolution. And yes, natively vertical, so sub-pixel rendering works exactly as intended.
Who the hell maximizes their browser on a 4k monitor?!
MacBook Pro users on their tiny little laptop screen
Surprising overlap with web developers for some reason.
Gross. I posted that from a MacBook Pro on two 4k screens and I turn those shits vertical and shape my windows on normal 16:9 or 4:3 ratios like a decent human being.
Oh, so you're one of those fake MacBook Pro users who actually care about their productivity, not the real ones who care about looking productive in coffee shops and open plan offices. 😉
Ding ding ding. My next MacBook is going to be a Mac mini. Paying an extra grand for a high-DPI screen is so 2018.
the sun is a deadly laser and being exposed to it is inhumane
I want to load more than one website at a time, so 2GB is generous
Maybe give them around 8GB for the machine they're doing the development on? Assuming they're not running windows...
I think 2 would be to little for the OS, development environment and whatever else someone needs.
As long as they are forced to test in a browser sandboxed to 200mb that's fine
There were websites that did way more than the typical framework bundled REACT crapfest with way fewer resources 20 years ago - those developers didn't have any problems making them.
The free lunch of being lazy and expecting the user to upgrade their way out of bad, inefficient code needs to end.
2 should be enough, if you don't use an electron based ide. This used to be normal
They still need to browse the mess they created :D
Yes. 2GB is plenty.
around 75% of the project lifecycle, All developers should be moved to the min spec hardware they plan to support at launch.
I...I kinda like that.
The problem is crunch happens toward the end and no sane company would do it.
It is kinda what needs to be done though. QA complaining the experience is poor doesn't have the same driving factor. Fuck polish, make it feel good first
The one thing that the Fediverse wanted to destroy: not being able to cross post across social media software.
What people do: 📸
I fucking LOVE things breaking when the other node inevitably goes down, or the person deletes there post.
The URL to the originating instance is right there.
Edit: the microblogging quote post standard is just a URL as well.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Look, that water is complicated. Cross-post a Peertube video in a response to this comment. Lemmy and mbin and piefed etc. do mostly inter-operate transparently, I even see folks from Mastodon occasionally, they're the ones that relentlessly @ people, but that's about as far as this anus will distend.
You just need practice bb 😘
...and they should not have a GPU either, so they can feel the cost of full-motion parallax-scrolling fade-in backgrounds.
You called the motion smoothing demon? (animation by glasscake)
https://youtu.be/KeaDfF9CHrc
gotta get rid of their fast internet, too. 128kbps max (like 2 channel bonded isdn).
also the base speed of at&t cellular after you use the fast data
CSS files shouldn't be heavier than HTML, that's literally form over substance.
All JS code should require pressing a button to run.
Ouu, that's actually a really smart rule of thumb, why should js be running if nothing has even been clicked?
Ad auctions, tracking pixels. You know all the fun parts of a web page.
While I agree that most websites ship way too much js, there are many possible use cases which aren't just to facilitate tracking and data collection. Some legit uses could be animations which cannot be achieved easily with just CSS, or the ability to update data asynchronously without reloading the page.
What about scrolling?
Especially Atlassian.
I had a Jira Tab (one single Tab) once use 1.2GB.
Whenever I have to open a jira link, I click it and go for a coffee break
I mean, even before everything went to hell and prices shot up, this is sane.
Another idea: ban all public-userspace devs from have more than 2GB ram on their dev systems.
If it's going on the market for joe-schmoe, ya gotta make it work on a complete shitbox before shipping.
ban my boss from forcing me to include gigabytes worth of javascript.
making me do it with a crappy computer is only going to make me suffer while trying to do it.
I just have a flag the pages can have that prevents it from loading any of the adops shit, so I can measure my performance improvements for my own sanity.
If it makes you feel better, Chrome has a limit of 4GB.
(Source: I work on a very large enterprise webapp and we have OOMed many times)
Jesus. So now chrome is eating all your mana too? Ffs Google.
My work laptop has 64GB and it legitimately takes 5mins to delete my node_modules folder 💀 Though that might just be an SSD speed bottleneck ig
LOL, just turning on Windows will blow that up. Then, opening Chrome... LMAO. Can you even run on 4GB of RAM anymore? Like, Raspberry Pis have over 4GB now.
OS developers should be banned from having more than 2GiB of RAM too.
You absolutely can. I have Linux with Hyprland and it is less than 2gb doing nothing. You can probably run ARM boards and do the same. I think with browser it is still less than 4Gb. Your system just needs to be free of corporate garbage.
I have a console window open on my debian desktop that is eating 5.1gb.
That's almost all just text in the tabs.
Stuff also just takes a lot of memory.
I guess if you're running 32-bit, but in 64-bit land the word size is double so it'll barebones run on double the 32-bit system (at minimum). Once you open a modern browser, it opens like 6 tabs (with a blank tab); there are background tabs. Pictures and active media consume a large amount of bandwidth and memory, which is a con against the modern web. I guess we should go back to BBSs.
I also don't run "corporate garbage." I use FOSS exclusively. But Windows, and its svchost'd jobs, eats over 2GiB ram idling.
Right, but the browser hasn't opened any web pages yet and you have not started your IDE (for example, Rust Analyzer takes a massive amount of RAM) and so on.
I think 8GB is probably a little bit more realistic, workable with, but likely still a lot of pain...
I generally support the sentiment. Though here I am with 64GB and it's still often swapping. (I'm already running optimized Linux)
Up until very recently (its system drive blew up) I was running a server (raspberry pi zero 2 w) with 512MB of RAM. It werked fine. At any moment I had ~1/4 of the RAM free. And I was running a bunch of services, like ssh, unbound, pi-hole, opentracker and a test website.
I also have another machine with 2GB of RAM running bookstack, an ssh gateway, opentracker, a KMS for activating windows machines, another website, naemon with the thruk frontend and probably something else I'm forgetting abt.
so EWE say
is it too late for me