EU rejects Trump administration claims that ICC threatens US sovereignty
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/14/eu-rejects-trump-administration-claims-icc-threatens-us-sovereigntyOpen linkView original on lemmy.caSyndicated from the fediverse. Read and engage on the original instance.
View original on lemmy.cahttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/14/eu-rejects-trump-administration-claims-icc-threatens-us-sovereigntyOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca
41 replies
One more batshit crazy thing to distract from the fact that Donald Trump fucks kids.
Yeah the distractions are coming so frequently, I now assume the Epstein files place him explicitly raping under-10s. He won't let us see that content so what else van we assume at this point? It's clearly the worst scenario or he wouldn't be working this hard to stop that conversation.
The US (and Republicans more specifically) has been threatening the ICC for a long time. Many sanctions were placed on ICC prosecutors and judges before the Epstein files were even a thing.
I want to be wrong. But, as an American I see most of European leaders basically responding to American fascism with "dude, we cant do that yet. People would burn shit".
I guess I feel like Europe is watching and shaking its head at America but not really organizing to remove the leaders that will bend the knee to capitalist interest once they are comfortable enough to supress any resistance.
I feel like the fascist sentiment is there in a lot of leadership that is just trying to keep the ideas of liberal democracy around as long as they can.
I think this type of push from the US will show us a lot. Like, are we really expecting Germany to arrest Netanyahu? I just don't see anything coming materially in resisting American fascist. A few exceptions, Spain to a small degree.
I feel like you should sort your own fucking house out before worrying about anyone else's.
The days of Yanks getting a free pass to lecture everyone else are long gone.
This type of response is the exact type of thing that makes me worry about Europe.
Like, you're talking to someone who is very much involved in working to "sort shit out" over here. My comment was asking Europeans how they feel. How anti fascist see their own social democracys or liberal democracys are responding to America lashing out and whether they expect actual resistance.
It's not something you should feel attacked by at all. And, like it or not, you're in the same global "house" mate.
Look, what the guy said might have been crude, but he's not wrong. It doesn't matter to the rest of the world whether one American, or another, is resisting US fascism. It makes no fundamental difference to the globe.
You really need to step outside of your perspective.
The ICC was set up to hold war criminals accountable. The US fought against it since the beginning and is still fighting against it now. Trump wasn't president when it was set up. The US just wants to go rogue in international affairs. That's where we come in. The international bit.
To the rest of the world, we just want the US to just shut the fudge up and leave us alone. We don't need American advice, and don't want it. It's like a neighbour offering advice about our fire regulations when their own house is burning to the actual ground. Pull out of NATO, hit us with tariffs, start stupid and unnecessary wars and all the other dangerous crap. Just leave us out of it. Like the guy said, your country took yourselves out of the global community. Fine. Keep your advice about how to fix Europe to yourself until you learn how to provide healthcare and basic services to your own citizens. It wasn't for nothing that your ridiculous tipping culture was a shock to Europeans during the world cup. In Europe service staff are paid a living wage. To them, tipping is the cream, not the cake.
I apologise for the slightly hostile tone, and don't mean it towards you personally. I also know that 50% of Americans don't want this, but the other 50% come across as pretty toxic.
The minute you declare that you are only interested in American values and that you are not accountable to the world then you lose the right for the rest of us to pay you any regard. Your system produced Trump twice. Twice! We know that you can pull that trick at any election, and the chaos returns. Europe and other countries are now building guardrails. We have to, but it's not what we want. It's too exhausting.
I feel like it's the responsibility of world leaders who claim to support to democracy to strongly condemn governments like the US that are being blatantly fascist as well as the systems that are strengthening its presence in their own countries. They're the ones giving the Yanks a free pass by handling them with kid gloves!
Yeah, blame the victims, go ahead.
Sort. Your. Own. Shithole. Country. Out.
European countries are not a monolith, there are conservatives, progressives, and neo-nazis just like the US. Europe benefits from having more stable checks and balances and better general education compared to the US, as well as the benefits of hindsight to see what is happening/happened in the US, UK, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, and Ukraine.
For what it's worth, a majority of European countries are in favor of sanctioning Israeli settlers. However, there is a lot of anxiety about defending Europe from Russia, and the Israel, the US, and Turkey are some if the biggest contributors to European security. But things are changing. NATO is rearming, and Ukraine is shaping up to be the world's most desirable security partner.
You can actually see a number of things happening. However European countries are deeply into the US hegemonic system and have benefited from it for years. Cutting it would hurt Europe a lot and they also really want some US support against Russia. So the solution is to be somewhat nice to the US, while slowly building up systems to replace the pieces of US influence.
We can already see that. The EU has signed a lot of trade deals since Trump started his trade wars. That does not work over night, but will move EU trade towards other countries. There are also things like the digital euro to replace Visa and Mastercard, which would cause a lot of issues, if they are removed in the EU. As well as moving away from US software. This is done especially quickly by the armed forces.Fossil fuels are also replaced with green alternatives, which is key as those are a massive US export. You also see a massive rearming, to be able to handle Russia easily without US support. If Russia looses, then the EU would be in an actually very good geostrategic position on that.
This is the sort of stuff, which somebody like Trump can not really understand. As in really bureaucratic, not flashy at all and somewhat slow.
The truth is that Netanyahu is just not going to travel to Germany as long as the ICC tries to arrest him. He is 78, so going to die soon anyway.
The logical conclusion is that Marco Rubio believes every aspect of the US political and legal system has essential personnel that are involved in genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes or the crime of aggression, which are the crimes the ICC pursues. He is well positioned to know such things. It would be well to heed his advice.
They probably mostly do. Far too many higher ups in the federal government gargle Israel's balls.
That's what's actually happening at the wall, it's actually netanyahu sitting in one of them Pope chairs where they check their balls. Just the perception filters. Keep us from seeing what's really happening
Do you think there was a point in nazi Germany during ww2 where people were like oh fuck these guys are Nazis(perjorative)
Nationalism and racism are powerful influences that obviously swayed many, but I believe, like now, there were also some who understood how evil the regime was. But living in a totalitarian police state is dangerous and many are inhibited from doing what they should, which is really the point of a totalitarian police state: to ensure people do what they're told rather than what they should.
I mean I'm currently so tied up in working to keep the rent paid that I'm not doing shit except talking shit about ice on the internet and putting up stickers
Oppression, in all its forms. Once established, it's not easy to overcome.
If you spoke out against the Nazis, you would have ended up in a concentration camp and people knew that. So few actually did something. However you have some interesting statistics, like for example that there was a massive drop of children being named "Adolf" in Germany in 1942.
"Just let us be criminals!"
Lol seriously wtf.
That's basically the entire administration in a nutshell.
Not just this US administration, see the The Hague Invasion Act.
The US literally isn't even subject to it...
Other countries who are subject to it are trickig/bribing trump into this.
Except that if the ICC issues arrest warrants for US officials, then any country that is subject to the court, is now obligated to arrest those people if they ever set foot in those countries.
It creates a rather inconvenient conflict of interest amongst US allies. Do they fulfill their obligations to the court? Or do they look the other way, and allow international criminals to walk free in their country?
That’s already failed because I’m pretty sure that several countries have said that they won’t arrest Netanyahu.
You're also forgetting that the US has a law that says they would invade the Hague if any American soldier or official is arrested. Also the way the bill is written they would also do it if Netanyahu was arrested since it mentions allies too.
Oh, shit. You're right...I did forget about that. That's so unbelievably fucked up.
Yep.
Like I was saying, it's not just trump is doing it, it's that it's one of the few things that doesn't directly benefit him.
Either he got bribed to do it for Bibi, or Bibi just fucking elder abused him again and fucking lied and said Trump could be tried under the ICC.
Either way it's extra fucked even for 2026.
I doubt it. Bibi won't let Trump sick his dick cause he's all upset about that warrant, and as we know from the Epstein files, Trump just loves slobbering on that cock. 😝
So...
You think Israel (another country) is manipulating trump into this...
And that made you disagree with my point:
Right but you didn’t say it the same way they said it so you are wrong, clearly.
/sAfter the next presidential election, the US should accede to Rome Statue and dump this loser on the steps of the ICC. Might as well nab Bibi as well, Maduro-style.
Could also just drop him off in Iran...
After all, every 'official act' is legal and beyond reproach now, and diplomatic gifts are certainly official acts.
The ironic thing is that by the time his second term is over, this probably would be the only legal play left to the USA to actually get him inside a prison.
If the ICC is known for anything, it's the completely broken pre-trial process.
The Democrats have been silent about this...
I will be honest, the genuine reservations voiced about the ICC and the due process problems are legitimate. I don't agree that they outweigh the benefits of joining the ICC, but I do understand that a reasonable person could conclude otherwise.
For one, ICC proceedings take years and there is no right to a fast trial. Article 67 of the Rome Statute gives the defendant a right against "undue delay" but this clause is essentially toilet paper in reality. A defendant can spend years in detention awaiting a resolution to their case, even if they are later acquitted and released (which has happened).
For comparison only, there is a right to a speedy trial in American law. If exercised, this usually results in a trial scheduled in mere weeks, at most a month or two for complex cases.
Genuine reservations are actually irrelevant in this. The Maga fascists are threatening other countries for supporting the court. This isn't about improving the ICC it's about blowing up international law. Democrats cannot hide behind "objections".
But I would even push back on your premise. Even such reservations are overstated. The ICC is a complementary court of last resort. If a national authority conducts a genuine investigation and decides not to prosecute the ICC must respect that decision and cannot intervene. The ICC can only step in when a national legal system is inactive, unwilling, or unable to carry out justice. So if the US wants to ensure speedy trial etc, all it has to do is to hold itself to the already existing legal standards it has for itself.
So far, in the cases which have actually run to completion in the ICC, they have been about crimes committed in countries with weak or non-functional judiciaries. This, I would assume, is the court's primary purpose.
Your assertion that the ICC Prosecutor is obligated to respect the decision of a state party's procuratorial authority to not prosecute seems unsupported by the text of the Rome Statute. Article 20, Section 3 of the Statute only precludes the ICC from trying offences which have been fairly and impartially tried in another court. The key here, is that the accused must have actually been tried. A decision not to prosecute by local prosecutors does not prevent the ICC Prosecutor's Office from pressing charges.
I do, however, agree for the most part that the United States can avoid the issue with respect to its own citizens by simply prosecuting all the possible crimes domestically in American courts, which would remove the jurisdiction of the ICC, averting all the nasty due process violation concerns. The US can accede with a reservation that all crimes involving US citizens will instead first be referred to the US Department of Justice for local prosecution, and then domestic legislation can force the Department of Justice to at least put some effort into a prosecution to satisfy the requirements of Article 20, Section 3 and foreclose ICC jurisdiction.
There are also some arguments about how the US being obligated to arrest visiting foreign heads of state or government with active warrants against them would be detrimental to the general peace-building process, but I don't agree with this interpretation. Article 98 of the Rome Statute states that state parties are not required to extradite in violation of other obligations of international law, presumably including diplomatic immunity.
So yes, I agree that it is a weak argument for not adopting the Rome Statute. To be clear, I think the real reason the US did not ratify the Rome Statute is because the US military has its fingers in so many pies that it's inevitable that some criminal conduct has occurred somewhere, but having even a single US service member appear before an international war crimes tribunal would be geopolitically embarrassing, especially since neither of the two other contemporary world powers subject themselves to ICC jurisdiction.
The opposition Democrats haven't said anything about this afaik. They are being complicit.
I mean it does, but not for the reason that he claims...