Trek Central reporting that Star Trek Prodigy has been cancelled and will be removed from Paramount+ in coming days.
https://twitter.com/TheTrekCentral/status/1672306067445874688?t=oFSLXlK4ZvYwteCHScWorw&s=19Open linkView original on startrek.website242
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The removal from the service thing is the most absurd part of these announcements, that was the benefit of VOD, that we could access what we wanted.
Shows have gotten cancelled when they are popular and on a cliff-hanger throughout the last 60 years, but the removal thing is new and a massive decline from the accessibility improvements that were made over the last 15 years.
Fortunately for me, my personal server doesn't have this issue.
It also makes it impossible for a show to get later word of mouth bumps. Nobody sees it, new users don't even know it exists, and so it has no metrics and no future whatsoever.
That's how Star Trek succeeded after The Original Series, but now there is no physical media comparable to streaming.
You would think that the content would still be licensed by another streamer like Tubi etc, but then they have to factor their property only being available on a competitor.
It's never been a better time to selfhost.
Don't streaming platforms remove canceled shows so they don't have to pay residuals to actors (or whoever is contractually getting them)? I've understood that streaming residuals are pretty shit to begin with
Yep. It's corporate greed, plain and simple, and it's disgusting.
Sometimes. Other times it's a tax write-off apparently.
Or – probably – a tax write-off and a way to dodge residuals
And shit like this is why I'm a data hoarder lol
Yep. I used to think that I didn't need to download and back up stuff because "I just need to pop on over to Youtube or something and it'll be there!" only to find out the hard way that people delist and take down stuff from places all the time, including major corporations.
I wish I'd downloaded and backed up some of my favorite stuff back in the day. Whether it's videos, music, games... it's surprising how much crap gets taken down. I never thought that people who insisted on having physical copies were weird (unlike some others) but now I realize even more nowadays that they were right. Especially if they use those physical copies to make their own digital backups.
The back half of Prodigy season one hasn’t even been released to DVD, just the first 10 episodes.
Canceling it is one thing. Pulling the show down from the service is absolutely abhorrent behavior.
Fully agree. There is absolutely no reason to do so!
To avoid paying royalties, I imagine. Hollywood accounting is craaaaazy.
Confirmed by Deadline, with some added details:
Update from series writer Aaron J. Waltke:
Variety's report contains this:
For goodness sake. Paramount+ just gained "The spot for all Star Trek films and series" earlier this month. Now, they have to put an asterisk on that statement, "*except Prodigy."
@Nmyownworld @ValueSubtracted What I struggle to understand is how they don't immediately see how this will only undermine subscriber confidence
It's the hot new trend - Warner and Disney have each done the same thing.
I mean, kind of, Disney hasn't burnt any Marvel if Stat Wars shows.
They've pulled a lot of other stuff, including Marvel's Runaways, which you may or may not count as a "Marvel show".
Point taken, but I don't feel like a long dead show that was dropped from canon almost as soon as it aired is the equivalent of a currently in production canon Trek show.
Disney did pull a few things Marvel, but they weren't prime MCU. They were all documentaries, time-sensitive hype pieces, or shows of dubious canonicity to the MCU.
So depressing.
Especially when Paramount+ has very little in the animated originals category.
More, Paramount has been trying to cover all of the demographics with their consolidated streamer. Compared to most of the others, excepting Disney, they have a decent amount of kids’ content and viewership. So, how shortsighted do they have to be to cut off their one major franchise offering for that demographic?
Ouch, that must hurt for Kate Mulgrew and the team.
Why would Paramount remove the existing episodes from streaming service though? They have everything else Trek.
@triktrek Same reason HBO removed Westworld... Saving on residuals. All about that bottom line, amirite? 🙄
Ah so it is just about residuals, I was just speculating on another comment that that might be the reason.
This fucking sociopathic cutthroat capitalism where literally nothing matters except squeezing more money out of everyone is getting real damn old
And one of the main reasons for the writers going on strike.
If there's really low viewership, it can cost more to keep it on the platform, as they still have to pay some royalties and stuff for it being there.
Same reason that Disney is pulling lots of shows from Disney+ and Hulu right now.
It sucks a lot for those of us who really like it.
Fucking shifting business fiefdoms. This is why I don't trust streaming at all.
I get cancelling it but why remove it?
💯
This is part of why the WGA is on strike
This. It's the new trend in streaming: Get better ROI for funding new content instead of paying residuals on your back catalog. The market is heading in a direction where subscribers won't just stick around forever if you're not constantly feeding them something new. So it makes more sense to put the money there instead.
"Max" has already dropped a lot of original content for this exact reason. And you can expect to continue seeing this trend across the streaming industry.
Remember the ongoing writers' strike? The pittance that they get paid in residuals from streaming is one of their main complaints. So you can expect the practice to accelerate after the strike is over.
The content will be shopped around to other platforms. You can probably expect some of it to end up on freemium/advertisement-based streaming services. The rest will just go into the proverbial vault.
What's weird is that Paramount HAS perhaps the best Freemium service: Pluto TV. One has to wonder if perhaps that is where Prodigy will end up (it may seem strange for a company to totally remove it from one streaming platform and move it to another that they also own, but the legalities of streaming rights are WEIRD. For example, some of the Looney Tunes shorts were removed from Max but can still be found on other WB/Discovery platforms, like their YouTube channel and the Boomerang streaming service- ultimately it was just an accounting trick)
Yeah this seems likely; they've supposedly cancelled the show as part of a content write-down (a bit like Discovery-Warner did, dumping shows, writing them off in their financial statments and not broadcasting them). It sounds like the shows makers have the rights to shop it around, and given season 2 is nearly complete it'll probably end up somewhere. Seems doubtful there would be a season 3 though.
Can someone please ELI5 this? If it's streamed on another service (which apparently it will), then wouldn't the creators have to be paid too? How does this all relate?
Paramount doesn't have to pay them, whoever picks it up does.
They are trying to find a new distributor for the second season, presumably the first would be packaged with that deal.
You'd think removing it would come after finding a new distributor, but I guess they don't want to give any possible advantage to a competitor.
This anti-competitive crap is rotting the whole industry.
Tax write-off seems to be the going theory.
Paramount dumping $500 million a year into Yellowstone and 1923 but they cut the two Emmy winning Trek shows that cost a literal fraction of the price.
Not enjoying this new trend of removing content. Hopefully will be available to purchase.
anyone that torrented it still has a copy 😜
I try to support the content I love. Not commenting on others actions but I do not sail the high seas. But I do think that modern content ownership is grey and we are going to be getting into issues where content is not available anywhere legally.
It's worse than grey. It doesn't exist unless you hold physical media in your hand.
Supporting content is noble and I do commend you for your intentions.
Yet, I can't shake the feeling that supporting streaming services is more of an encouragement for the companies to wave cool creations in front of you then immediately snatch it away again.
You can support it by buying physical or digital copies as well.
By the same token you can not support business practices. When my term is up I will cancel p+ and just buy the shows i want to watch instead.
The blu-rays of Prodigy seem to be out of stock in a lot of the usual places. Are they taking those out of print as well?
It almost seems like Paramount's execs want you to pirate their content. The other thing that frustrates me that they've been doing is sending PC users extremely low-quality streams just to spite anybody who payed to view their content instead of torrenting it. I guess the line of thought is that this will make it harder for pirates to capture HD-quality streams, but that's not stopping them so all it does is make it so that the pirates are the only ones who can watch it in HD on a PC.
Not sure if they fixed this but there was also a problem with episodes randomly missing back in the CBS All-Access days. I especially remember Menagerie and Cage were mysteriously gone when they released that episode of Discovery where they revisit Talos IV.
I'm rambling but my point is that CBS/Paramount's stupid myopic decisions only drive people to torrent sites because the version that you download is a far superior product to what they're streaming.
I've been re-stocking up on physical media for this exact reason. DVDs are like $1 per movie if you know where to look.
I'm very surprised. I thought Prodigy had a strong following. What a strange situation, quickly pulling season one. But I don't understand the ins and outs of streaming contracts.
Possibly that Paramount+ simply doesn't have the kids' content to support viewership for a single show. Sure, it pulls in Trek fans, but probably isn't grabbing the 4-12 demographic it's aimed at or whatever.
code for "Prodigy is about to become super hot on pirate sites"
ugh, this destroys a lot of the appeal of Paramount+ for me. the only reason i have a subscription is that it's the one-stop-shop for all things star trek, but i guess not anymore.
They're also really boosting the appeal of piracy (not that i would ever recommend somebody reading this post commit piracy) because that's the only way to reliably enjoy the things you would otherwise be paying to rent.
Boooo! I quite enjoyed Prodigy, and I really hope it finds a new home.
They don't have to pay residuals if they pull the content. This is one of the main issues that caused the current writer's strike.
I'm bummed. I found the first few episodes of Prodigy rocky but it wound up being a solid first season in a franchise where a rocky first season is the norm.
I don't have kids but if I ever did I could see myself wanting to watch Prodigy with them. I hope another studio picks it back up.
Oh man that really sucks. I really enjoyed prodigy, it was doing something different (but good different!).
Had been looking forward to watching it with my son when he was sold enough… I really hope they find a new home so we get more than just one season.
Oh man. I never got around to watching it!
You should watch it before it’s pulled. Only the first 10 episodes are available on physical media.
At 20 x 22 minutes, it’s not a lot of time, but we’ll worth it.
It's really good.
I saw the trailer and figured it was a kids show and never watched.
It's aimed at kids but is still a great Trek show.
It absolutely is a kid's show but once you get past the first few episodes and ESPECIALLY the second half of the season, it's utterly Star Trek and pulls off a better season arc than any of the other modern Treks. ^Plus Janeway jokes about turning into a salamander.^
The last few episodes are especially classic Trek.
It is a kids' show, but surprisingly deep and thoughtful for one. Characters are well realized and the plotting is tight. Plus it's absolutely gorgeous to look at.
I'm exposed to a lot of kids' media by virtue of, you know, having kids, and this show is top shelf. And my young kids actually liked it and would sit down to watch it, which is something they wouldn't do with other Trek.
It is targeted at kids, that's why I never checked it out either.
It's actually a decent Trek show, and had Kate Mulgrew as Janeway for bonus points. Way better Trek than Discovery and Picard, at least.
Including Picard season 3? 1+2 and 3 are so different that I think it's almost unfair to even lump them together.
(On IMDb, the worst-rated episodes of S3 are about tied with the best of S1+2.)
meh, I don't trust IMDb ratings on trek, a certain section of angry star trek "fans" seem like they review bomb star trek shows pretty hard
Usenet and Yorrentst 😎
Did it end on a cliffhanger and this means the ending is unresolved?
Sort of - the mystery of what happened to Chakotay is unresolved, but the crew got a more-or-less happy ending. From how it's being reported, season 2 is all but complete and they just need to find a new network or service to show it - I'd wager Prime Video might be a possible home for it as they've historically had distibution rights for the various other modern Trek shows internationally.
This gives some hope at least. This show is better than it had any right to be and deserves a proper ending.
That's what's bizarre about this. Paramount made the show, the next season actually exists in produced form, and they are just going to... not put it on their own service which they control? Like, "according to ourselves this show produced by ourselves which has been bought and paid for and is basically free for us to put on our own service and which we know people want to see isn't something we're interested to show."
I don't even like Prodigy and I'm dumbfounded by this move.
Blah. I hate this.
This is the first I've heard about Star Trek Prodigy
The promotion hasn’t been what it could and the merchandising came very, very late.
This is why piracy is still going strong... when companies pull this type of shit. I hope it comes back to bite them like it did the BBC with Doctor Who
Wow, this sucks. I didn't get around to finishing season one yet but really enjoyed what I have seen so far. It's refreshing to see Star Trek deviate and try something new, and I felt like Prodigy was really hitting the mark there.
I hope season two finds a home quickly and we're not stuck waiting forever.
The lack of completions were one of the things that hurt the show.
it's already a thing for several shows. The worst off are game shows that aren't as popular. or series that only had a couple of seasons. Capitalism and it's continuous churn of removing and adding new is going to put us in a new dark ages.
It's happening with everything. A friend of mine got a bike secondhand that only came with a digital manual. He didn't get the manual when he got his bike, so he had to go on the site to get it. Except the site had deleted the page his big was on, and the manual for it. It wasn't on the way back machine either. Luckily he found a similar model ok the way back machine but this is going to continue to happen.
So many things are going to be lost because they aren't printed and then they're deleted and no one is backing them up. All those news papers from local towns that we're using to piece together certain events in history just won't exist in 50 to 70 years because they were 100% digital and are now gone.
It's really upsetting and no one is doing anything about it. At least not at every level, sure there are efforts, but not in every small town.
@Coliver Well crud, I thought it was doing pretty well and that they had said it was renewed.
@Coliver
I don't follow the TV biz closely. What exactly does this mean? Is it no more Prodigy for sure, or is it being shopped around for someone to maybe continue it?
In many cases like this they end up selling rights to one of the growing ad-supported streaming services, which means I personally will never watch. I had just started watching Prodigy in the gap between Picard and SNW. I think companies are being shortsighted in cutting back their catalogs in this way since it encourages people like me to cancel subscriptions between the initial broadcast of new seasons of the more popular series rather than stick around for something of perhaps secondary interest.
It also means that after a while people figure out the pattern of "new show, cancelled, new show, cancelled, repeat" and stop caring about originals. Like Netflix.
Maybe it's to sell it to a streamer more kid-friendly than Paramount+? I may be too naïve.
The only streamer that’s more kid-friendly is Disney+. Netflix is trying hard to boost its original kids content through.
Was it that poorly received? I thought it was great for a kid show.
@chronicledmonocle
@Coliver
It was a great kid's show AND great star trek.
It was well received.
there is no good reason for doing this.
Exactly, Prodigy was a surprise gem and is at the bottom of the list of current Star Trek shows that should've been canceled.
But the popular narrative is all over the place. People hate Discovery but love Strange New Worlds despite them being almost identical. People love Lower Decks and are tepid about Prodigy despite them having a very similar tone.
At least most people seem to agree on Picard now.
Had a kid that loved it and he generally refuses to watch any trek show. Cutting off that audience is going to cost them in the long run but I don't think the owners of the IP have a long term vision
Nickelodeon didn’t get as much linear audience as they’d hoped, but Nickelodeon is doing poorly overall since 2020.
On Paramount+, it was popular but didn’t have as high a completion stat as it should.
Too many fans watched and episode or two and then bailed because it starts out looking more like other franchises that kids and families unfamiliar with Star Trek would find initially appealing. Within a very few episodes it really brings you into a very Star Trek experience, but too large a proportion of viewers didn’t give it the chance it deserves.
Also, Paramount’s promotion and timing of merchandise releases was incredibly weak. The algorithm didn’t promote the show to kids. The toys came out a year after the show premiered. The full year break between short seasons lost audience etc.
removing it completely is a bit extreme
They ended up removing it earlier than they planned because so many people were rushing to watch it before it was removed.
lmaooooo
I guess they were concerned about all the views reducing the value of the tax write-off.
So, instead of SNW in the top of the Nielsen streaming numbers for this week (as they surely hoped), in a month from now we’ll see the figures for this week with Prodigy in the Nielsen top ten like 1923 and Picard.
I wonder what investors and the IRS will make of that…
A whole big bag of nothing, it's CBS. Investors on the other hand, dunno.
Awww nooo! Not murf! I loved that little dude.
This is a shame, but maybe it means more money available to make star trek legacy? Also Kate Mulgrew is now free and can play a part in that series. Probably wishful thinking.
Never even heard of it
You're on a star trek only website and haven't heard of prodigy?
It's because it wasn't targeted at you. Branded as a Nickelodeon show, it's intended audience was children
My kid is not quite old enough to enjoy a show like Prodigy (he’s 1, lol). I was waiting until he aged into it and watch it with him.
I guess Paramount…. doesn’t want to indoctrinate children as trekkies, then?
Arrr matey, time to sail the seven seas in search of lost booty!
This sucks, my kids love this show so much. I was excited to see where they would go with it, too.
I haven't gotten around to watching Prodigy yet. Is it worth binging before they pull it down?
This is disappointing, I very much enjoyed the series. A unique series different from all the traditional ST shows. Those classic starfleet morals and ethics, told in an intelligent way for a younger audience. However, there are references that long time fans would notice and enjoy. I feel bad for all the people who worked on it. The cast seemed very excited in interviews for the second season.
Edit: They better not touch Lower Decks.
Itunes has all of S1 for 9.99 today. I'm buying in support of the show.
Wasn't exactly my favorite in season 1. Was kinda excited to see where season 2 went but I'm not really too upset.
What I'm hoping this does is clear the way for a Legacy spinoff Matalas teased with the Picard finale
That didn’t work for the fans who cheered when TAS got canceled in the early 70s.
Hoping the cancellation of one Trek show will get you the one you personally want is never great thing for the health of the franchise.
Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive. Not saying it's great what they're doing, but Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen. Focus the franchise on what works, and allow room for good ideas to flourish instead of strangling them in the cradle because a lesser show is hogging resources.
Paramount is in a tough spot financially and if they need to cancel the underperformers so good Trek can survive, I'm ok.
Also, just saying, if TAS wasn't cancelled we might not have gotten TNG. Not sure your example is working in your favor.
There was more than a decade between TAS’ cancellation and TNG.
With the planned Phase II series that's a follow-on to TOS and TAS becoming TMP.
Fair enough but canceling TAS didn’t advance Phase II, mimeoed fanzine claims notwithstanding.
And there was more than a decade between Enterprise and Discovery. Not quite sure your point, but these things are how a series evolves.
Not to mention, the star trek franchise is in an entirely different state now that it was in either of those periods. Comparing this to either of those is really like comparing fresh apples to replicated ration packs
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they're simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
Without the initial popularity of Disco, we wouldn't have gotten any new Trek past season one.
And let's be honest about it, without the weight of nostalgia for TNG tipping the scale in its favour, "Star Trek: Legacy" is likely not going to do gangbusters. Lest we forget that Terry Matalas was also in charge of season two of PIC. No one is ever going to be able to convince me that they're really excited about the ongoing adventures of the
TitanEnterprise G and ensign Terry Sue.You do realize that different shows in the franchise are currently trying to fill different niches and appeal to different audiences, right? Prodigy is far from appealing to the traditional trekkie. It's primarily targeted to young adults and children via Nickelodeon branding. The characters were largely insufferable at the beginning. Yes to show character growth, but this likely also turned people off
Just because one niche show in the franchise wasn't super successful or was too expensive to make does not mean the current generation of development is doomed.
This writers strike has caused production calculus to change. That's likely what started talks at Paramount leading to the current decision amplified by their current financial status.
And just because you didn't like the ending PIC doesn't meant it wasn't immensely enjoyed by others. I would love to see the next next generation on the enterprise G with all the cheese it might entail. I absolutely would eat that series up! Don't worry, I don't need you to be convinced for me to enjoy it 😊
You assume some executive at Paramount cares about that? Star Trek is a brand, and how well it performs as a whole is what's important with regards to new Trek getting greenlit.
According to whom?
Animation costs significantly less per episode than a high concept live action science fiction series like Disco or PIC. In addition, according to impression analytics, PRO was fairly well received, including being in the Top 10 of new shows when its second group of episodes began airing. This despite the fact that its scattershot release schedule likely meant it had difficulty catching on with the intended demographic.
That's very true.
You do realize the same thing applies to yourself and your appreciation of PRO, right?
Wow you are tiresome. I guess this shows Lemmy can be a good reddit alternative though with some internet troll scolding others for not liking trek for the same exact reasons as them. Geeze, let's start from the top.
Yes. Star trek is one of the highest grossing media franchises in the history of the world being more profitable than the likes of Spiderman, Jurassic Park, and Mario. I know media executives aren't the smartest people in the world, but I'd say that's a fairly healthy franchise and is a cash cow if they appeal to the right audience. No exec is going to think like you and be dumb enough to not continue development on the franchise because some niche show targets at kids didint appeal to all Trekkies and even those who generally did liked it acknowledged there's some very big demographic targeting flaws that would keep many fans from the show
See my last two links. Also me and tons of others. It's a very common theme that Prodigy is for kids and that turned of many of the traditional adult fans myself included. Animation isn't the traditional style for star trek, but it can work so long as it's appealing to adults/all ages instead of being specifically targeted towards kids. Why Lower Decks has been so successful when TAS and Prodigy were not.
I wasn't aware you were a producer well versed in the various pros and cons of live action vs animation. You should know then that is not necessary the case as animation takes way longer and can quickly balloon in cost not to mention the incredibly talentent Kate Mulgrew ain't cheap. Plain and simple, we don't know the exact production cost but it very easily.
Keyword second group of airing. Yes it didn't have the greatest release schedule, but even if it was more of traditional release it wouldn't have mattered. Kids these days aren't exactly know for their adhesion to traditional television release cycles. It really shouldn't matter when something is airing. Plenty of shows manage the 1/2 season release cycle and still find their audience. To be fair most of those shows don't have as abysmal of a first half of a first season as Prodigy did. You even acknowledge right here that it has its own intended demographic different from the traditional trekkie.
Just a personal tangent: I get the character development thy were trying to go with by making the first half of the season the way they did, however that storytelling and exposition could have easily been dolled out in in other ways with these kids starting already in starfleet. Or having a starfleet character get trapped in the camp from the beginning with them. It's not obvious AT ALL from the first half of that season that this is a Star Trek show.
Absolutely. I never said I hated the show or thought people couldn't like it ahem. If you read my first comment you would have noticed that while i wasn't the biggest fan of the first season, i was looking forward to the second and only with the news of the cancellation am i preliminary hopeful this means that Paramount is looking to bring in stronger hitting shows and getting rid of the ones that don't fit the franchise. I'm not surprised a show aimed at kids with insufferable characters with no initial affiliation to starfleet is a prime target for cancellation, especially with the ongoing writers strike. Not sure if you're old enough to remember the last strike, but lots of great shows ended up getting cancelled just as collateral damage.
Was i cheering for it's cancellation, no. Was i surprised by it, also no. Am I excited for the future of the franchise? You bet.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Glass houses, Champ.
It is not trolling to point out the realities of the entertainment industry. And I'm not scolding anyone. I know people who very much enjoyed season three of PIC, and more power to them. I wish I liked it. However, I will be staggered if "Legacy" happens and the majority of people whose opinions flipped once we got back to the adventures of the TNG crew won't flip again as soon as those characters are no longer a part of the show. Again, not trolling or scolding, simply a prediction.
And yet somehow it keeps going for long stretches without any new Trek.
Your two links to some small websites where those particular reviewers didn't enjoy the series, one of which based solely on the first two episodes? I could also cherry pick reviews.
Look, I don't know who the "traditional" Star Trek fan is. I know that my old ass has been watching TOS reruns since before TNG was ever announced but I am not going to assume I am the archetypical fan, or assign all Trekkies my personal tastes. Not everyone can share my appreciation for great episodes like "The Way to Eden" and "Sub Rosa" and that's okay; I'm just built different.
But I was a kid when I was watching TOS. I was still a kid when I was watching TNG. And when I was watching TNG as a child, I had all sorts of toys and action figures, as do several of my friends. The idea that the "traditional" Trekkie demographic does not include children is wild.
The same reasoning with TAS also applies to Phase II and we might not have got TNG had Paramount not decided to turn it into TMP.
Just goes to show tv development is a strange base. One failure leads to another's success