On that subject, does anybody hate the term "Sprint" as much as I do?
"Sprints" are extremely quick events that last tens of seconds and are done at most once a day, but more often (in competition) a few times a month, or a few times in a day every few months.
You don't sprint for a full week every week. That's a marathon, maybe an ultra-marathon.
The theory being that the team rushes to complete the prioritised items. Also in theory if you close all items before end of the sprint, you are free to not work, or work on pet project at your own pace.
Of course middle management hates the idea of others being idle so they asked to squeeze the last part. Efficiency, baby !
Sure, it might seem like a sprint compared to a Waterfall project where it's a marathon, where there might be months between points where you check in with the plan and try to figure out if the software is ready to ship yet.
I still just object to the word "sprint". Any job where you're sprinting over and over, week after week, where that's the main thing you're doing, you're doing something wrong.
Yea it's why I use the word cycle. In a meeting and the PM says "can we bring this in next sprint?" I reply "not sure about the next cycle, but after that one for sure.". So far I've been subtly nudging multiple people to shift away from using the word sprint
What makes it so annoying to me is that a sprint implies putting in maximum effort for a short time. The pace of a sprint is unsustainable over more than a few seconds.
If you say you did "sprints" for over a year... no you didn't. Either you sprinted for a little bit and then had to walk for a while because you'd used up all your energy. Or, you jogged at a sustainable pace for a year and just called it a sprint.
Oh absolutely. It wasn't even close to being sparkling chaos, let alone Agile. What we had as 'sprints' would be more accurate as Epics. The whole thing was insane but they stuck with the terminology...
I did have actual stand ups once, after coming back from China and all I could think of was "shit I hope they don't make us sing the corp's anthem at the end!" like they do over there...
I don't know exactly what they sing, but yeah, singing together before a shift starts is fairly common over there. Used to see the delivery men do it before taking off for the day. Same with the local estate agent branch down the street where I lived.
I did not know that. But it reeks so much of corpo team building I would not be surprised in the least. Do they do that out on the street, though?
My first thought when I saw this was "oh, that must be the hazing for the new recruits! How amusing!"
It was not. It was a daily thing.
I dunno exactly what they sang, but yeah, they would absolutely sing something at the beginning of the day, lined up on the pavement outside their office, with the manager directing like some sort of corpo choral. I guess it's one of those team building things...
Yet another way that the good ideas from Agile got crushed to meaninglessness by Business Idiocy.
The whole point of the “stand up meeting” is, by forcing everyone to stand together, to encourage everyone to keep it brief and to the point, so it benefits everyone without sucking their time.
For you perhaps but for the scrum master it helps identify whether the sprint is on track and whether there are any new discoveries/realities identified during the previous days work that might impact the Sprint's goals.
This is fundamental to the emperical nature of scrum: there is no improvement without inspection.
I had the misfortune of working under SAFE – Scalee agile or something.
It was waterfall wearing a festive and extremely expensive Agile mask.
I think more than 60 devs all working in the same codebase, a trading platform, and doing planning sprints individually, playing planning poker to estimate feature of features of features up to three months in the future.
Most ridiculous thing I ever participated in and that says a lot.
From experience most hate from project management systems come from people just don't understand it and implement it poorly. Usually the miss the point. Unfortunately those are the people who need the structure the most.
The 'hate' is the obvious observation that most forms of project management do and can not work while they are done over and over again with the non-argument 'If it does not work, you are not doing it right'.
I guess it is a reference to champagne. If wine does not come from the region "Champagne" it is not allowed to be called Champagne but just white wine. Even if it tastes just the same.
Come on you're going to hurt the wine snobs with this statement. Champagne is a sparkling wine, it doesn't taste like any white wine.
It's more like a bitter Sprite with alcohol in it.
It's a meme format (a snowclone), of the form "It's only X if it comes from the X region of France, otherwise it's just sparking Y". The original was talking about Champagne (and sparkling wine), which is why it's France.
You forgot "We use JIRA so we are agile now. I assigned all tickets so get to work and be done at the end of the
weeksprint"The one I like is “we have no fucking idea what we’re trying to build other than a vague problem statement, so start testing already. This is Agile.”
”Our plan is to continuously make up new shit along the way and hope we eventually get something we can deliver”
On that subject, does anybody hate the term "Sprint" as much as I do?
"Sprints" are extremely quick events that last tens of seconds and are done at most once a day, but more often (in competition) a few times a month, or a few times in a day every few months.
You don't sprint for a full week every week. That's a marathon, maybe an ultra-marathon.
The theory being that the team rushes to complete the prioritised items. Also in theory if you close all items before end of the sprint, you are free to not work, or work on pet project at your own pace.
Of course middle management hates the idea of others being idle so they asked to squeeze the last part. Efficiency, baby !
Sure, it might seem like a sprint compared to a Waterfall project where it's a marathon, where there might be months between points where you check in with the plan and try to figure out if the software is ready to ship yet.
I still just object to the word "sprint". Any job where you're sprinting over and over, week after week, where that's the main thing you're doing, you're doing something wrong.
Yea it's why I use the word cycle. In a meeting and the PM says "can we bring this in next sprint?" I reply "not sure about the next cycle, but after that one for sure.". So far I've been subtly nudging multiple people to shift away from using the word sprint
Good job, may your quest succeed.
We had a bunch of simultaneous 'sprints' that went on for over a year...
What makes it so annoying to me is that a sprint implies putting in maximum effort for a short time. The pace of a sprint is unsustainable over more than a few seconds.
If you say you did "sprints" for over a year... no you didn't. Either you sprinted for a little bit and then had to walk for a while because you'd used up all your energy. Or, you jogged at a sustainable pace for a year and just called it a sprint.
Oh absolutely. It wasn't even close to being sparkling chaos, let alone Agile. What we had as 'sprints' would be more accurate as Epics. The whole thing was insane but they stuck with the terminology...
Screenshotting a text post on the Fediverse, to post an opaque image on the Fediverse.
The post was right there to be shared.
Ok, but could one cross post a mastodon toot to lemmy?
If you tag a lemmy community in a mastodon toot it posts to the community.
Dunno if there's a way to repost other people's toots to lemmy though, never tried
Tag it how?
Same way you'd tag a user on lemmy, just tagging the community instead.
I've never tried it myself, but I've seen it been done a couple times
Hmm, does the other direction work? @[email protected] wants to know. (That's me).
Good question, did it?
Yeah, it worked.
@vodka @[email protected]
It works, and I think I can reply to the thread via Mastodon. But, I don't get the full thread, just one post back in the thread.
i fucking hate daily standups. such a pointless waste of time.
I did have actual stand ups once, after coming back from China and all I could think of was "shit I hope they don't make us sing the corp's anthem at the end!" like they do over there...
Wait, do they seriously have corporate anthems in China? I thought that only happened in the sprawl trilogy o.O
I don't know exactly what they sing, but yeah, singing together before a shift starts is fairly common over there. Used to see the delivery men do it before taking off for the day. Same with the local estate agent branch down the street where I lived.
Kind of like what they do at Walmart?
I did not know that. But it reeks so much of corpo team building I would not be surprised in the least. Do they do that out on the street, though? My first thought when I saw this was "oh, that must be the hazing for the new recruits! How amusing!"
It was not. It was a daily thing.
Please explain this corporate anthem further....
I dunno exactly what they sang, but yeah, they would absolutely sing something at the beginning of the day, lined up on the pavement outside their office, with the manager directing like some sort of corpo choral. I guess it's one of those team building things...
Thanks, I hate it.
Especially when they're called "standups" but everybody sits down because they typically last an hour or so.
Yet another way that the good ideas from Agile got crushed to meaninglessness by Business Idiocy.
The whole point of the “stand up meeting” is, by forcing everyone to stand together, to encourage everyone to keep it brief and to the point, so it benefits everyone without sucking their time.
Of course, that works only when everyone's in the same room. I don't have a good replacement for teams that connect remotely.
We have a NeatBoard that's configured for Zoom. So our stand ups are in front of this TV thing and it works well for us.
Then again, our stand ups are short and to the point. We're closer to kanban than scrum.
For you perhaps but for the scrum master it helps identify whether the sprint is on track and whether there are any new discoveries/realities identified during the previous days work that might impact the Sprint's goals.
This is fundamental to the emperical nature of scrum: there is no improvement without inspection.
It's agile if the plan is constantly reviewed with every new information in mind and you can change what you are working in to better implement it.
If you do do Scrum, that's almost never the case.
I had the misfortune of working under SAFE – Scalee agile or something. It was waterfall wearing a festive and extremely expensive Agile mask.
I think more than 60 devs all working in the same codebase, a trading platform, and doing planning sprints individually, playing planning poker to estimate feature of features of features up to three months in the future. Most ridiculous thing I ever participated in and that says a lot.
I'm not super fond of SAFE either
Is exactly the experience I had in my last two shops.
From experience most hate from project management systems come from people just don't understand it and implement it poorly. Usually the miss the point. Unfortunately those are the people who need the structure the most.
The 'hate' is the obvious observation that most forms of project management do and can not work while they are done over and over again with the non-argument 'If it does not work, you are not doing it right'.
ah-jee-lay… must be Italian!
Is there such a thing as a region called Agile in france? Or am i missing out the point of the joke?
I guess it is a reference to champagne. If wine does not come from the region "Champagne" it is not allowed to be called Champagne but just white wine. Even if it tastes just the same.
Come on you're going to hurt the wine snobs with this statement. Champagne is a sparkling wine, it doesn't taste like any white wine. It's more like a bitter Sprite with alcohol in it.
Same with Cognac and Armagnac. And Port. And probably a bunch of others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Protected_Designation_of_Origin_products_by_country
Interesting, thanks!
Oooh ok thx a lot!
It's a meme format (a snowclone), of the form "It's only X if it comes from the X region of France, otherwise it's just sparking Y". The original was talking about Champagne (and sparkling wine), which is why it's France.
There's lots of versions out there, of varying quality.
I think the "region of France" section is optional. As long as it has the punchline "otherwise it's just sparkling" Y
So that's Agile AOP then.