JD Vance warns the pope should 'be careful' when talking about theology
“But I think one of the issues here is that if you’re going to opine on matters of theology, you’ve got to be careful. You’ve got to make sure it’s anchored in the truth, and that’s one of the things that I try to do, and it’s certainly something I would expect from the clergy, whether they’re Catholic or Protestant,” he added.
The pope and Donald Trump have exchanged barbs over the past several days, with the pope denouncing the war in Iran and Trump responding by saying Leo was “WEAK on crime” and “terrible for Foreign Policy.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/vance-warns-pope-careful-talking-theology-rcna331881Open linkView original on lemmy.world509
Comments127
To a fucking POPE of all people... Jesus Dumbass Vance, go back to fucking sofas.
What's even crazier is people being surprised...
Like, people honestly think conservatives are actually religious and they use religion to dictate their politics and not the other way around.
Some conservstives are some are not
Do you know any conservatives outside of memes. Of course you do, they just don't want to deal with your hysteria.
Wow, a three-day-old account. Welcome to Lemmy, Fred Garvin! I see you've quickly found your sea legs, lol.
I do! I have known many, and they seemed pretty cool with hysteria.
JADE HELM OH NO OBAMA IS GONNA LOAD US ON TRAINS
I have no idea what you're talking about...
But I know a lot more conservatives and "conservatives" then most people it's unavoidable for me
In His Own Words: J.D. Vance On Why He Converted to Catholicism
Huh, maybe JD should listen to this guy
His conversion doesn't mean all that much when the voter base is predominantly Protestant
Quite a Protestant think to say, for a supposed Catholic.
MAGA is JD’s religion now.
JD's religion is and anyways has been whatever is most politically expedient at the moment. Dude is a snake in the grass when no actual morals or convictions.
Mammon are these people's religion. Or Ba'al, depending on perspective.
Maybe the Moloch of Despotism?
I dunno. Im hearing children crying under stairways boys sobbing in armies and old men weeping in the park. Smelling ash cans and unobtainable dollars.
Excuse me, but did Juliette Dianne Vance just challenge the Pope on theology?
CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES
THIS IS MY LAST RESORT
Maybe we need a youtube documentary from somebody exploring the emo to fascist pipeline...
Well, The Hard Times has, for many years, satirized the fact that pop-punk singers tend to gravitate toward high school aged women...
Make it 3 hours long and down by some dude who sounds like he is both baffled and sleep deprived.
Thats Vance!? Hahahahahahahaha
James Donald Bowman
They're really going with 'lets pick a moral fight with the Pope'.
... I actually have trouble comprehending this, because it is so obviously a politically stupid thing to do.
JD is apparently considerably more lost in the sauce than I thought, has od'd on his own fart sniffing.
It really is wild how immesenly hubristic this all is, but it does serve as a very useful illustration to the rest of the world to drive home the idea that American Christians (TM) quite literally think they speak with the authority of God himself, which is broadly regarded as insane heresy by most other Christians in most of the world.
They're idiot fascists to the core, and its like 30% of the country that is this way.
"they're very low IQ." "Stupid" "losers" all of these weak insults, and they never, ever give examples of such. "How so are they losers?" "What makes you say they're stupid?" There's never any push back. These are the things a bully says because they're insecure and don't know why. There's no evidence or thought given to these insults.
How is the Pope weak on crime? Show me when the Pope said Iran should have nukes. This is the most basic push back. The media just lets him say whatever without questioning it.
Fascists don't use language the way normal people do.
They don't believe in 'truth' or 'reality' as most people understand it.
They believe that things just are the way they say they are, because they said so.
They primarily use rhetoric, and pathos.
Logos, logic, actually being correct or truthful... they only employ these things to the extent that they can aid either a rhetorical or emotional appeal.
Their entire strategy is 'create a collective delusion / cult that appeals to the weak and gullible'.
Trying to evaluate the things they say, logically, is generally a waste of time.
The proper way to converse with a fascist is by breaking their jaw with a baseball bat, to disarm them of their weaponized nonsense projection machines.
Fascists believe language is a weapon, not a means of having a discussion.
Their real language is violence, so you must commincate with them in their native tongue, to succesfully convey any 'meaning' to them.
If you can read this you are a pope. Specticals, testicles, wallet, and watch. Ramen.
My pope card is the first piece of ID I provide when asked by LEO. It hasn't worked well. Yet!
Well obviously you need to give it to someone other than pope Leo, he's the person least likely to accept it
Ah yes, the holy pentacle, rofl.
His noodly appendage
If a core Catholic belief is the pope is infallible, especially in the domain of theology & religion, then why is Vance saying any of this? Sure seems like his “Catholicism” is name alone or perhaps his faith is more Protestant than he wants to admit. Or, he has values above his faith, and for a Catholic, that seems worse.
Whatever, Jan.
Edit: I’m ex-Catholic. I don’t need a theology lesson about the specifics. What the Pope is expressing here is within the domain of church doctrine.
Stop trying to defend fascists with pedantic details.
The Pope should just excommunicate the couchfucker.
The heretical couchfucker.
On second thought, that might make him sound more metal. Maybe just couchfucker is enough.
Not justifying mr couch fucker, but I will point out: modern Catholic doctrine does not actually say the Pope is infallible. Rather, it is that he is infallible when speaking "ex cathedra", literally "from the chair", which is also like... weird with different peoples' opinions on what is ex cathedra. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
on the other hand, Vance's "catholicism" doesn't even match the fucking Bible, so, yknow.
Well, let's be real.... Catholicism doesn't match the Bible, either.
It's a ridiculous book full of contradictions, so par for the course.
He can disagree with the pope but not disagree with the catechism and still consider himself catholic, and the pope is only restating the "Safeguarding Peace" chapter.
Yeah, pretty much. What, you expected consistency from the religious sect that has consistently had issues with child sexual abuse?
I hate to break it to you about other religions, too…
Obviously the Catholic Church has a systemic problem, and given that it’s one of the largest religions on earth (and their molester shuffling), it’s more universal than in a lot of religions, and I’m not defending them. They’re only unique in scale though.
I mean, yeah. They're just the most famous about it.
Which other religions are you referring to? Naturally you would identify them by name.
If you’d like. Mormons, different kinds of Protestant, Jehovas Witnesses, Amish, Hasidic Jews, Muslims, and so many cults off the top of my head (not the links, obviously, but I just wrote out all of the religions associated with pedophilia I remembered from the past few years and went looking for stories). I suspect if I lived around more other religions, I’d be able to remember different ones and you can probably find cases for most religions (I just went looking for an exception, but even Unitarians are not immune).
It's weird, full stop. Everyone is human, anyone can be wrong.
It isn't. That's only when the Pope is speaking "ex cathedra" meaning "from the chair" which Pius IX defined as
Sure sounds to me like "opining on matters of theology".
Oh it sounds to you like that does it? And you're going to substitute your layman's understanding of the topic for what Catholic scholars determine then? Go ahead and do an image search for "dunning kruger chart" and see if you can find where you fit on it.
I don't know what I did to deserve being called stupid and I'd sure like to know so I can properly repent for my horrifying sin. Or maybe I'm beyond absolution. Who knows.
I didn't call you stupid. But you are willing to take a very layman's understanding of a technical subject's jargon and think that you immediately understand it all. So use whatever adjective you feel applies there.
Then you should know that, generally, an invocation of Dunning-Kruger is understood as a veiled "you're stupid". Now you know.
What jargon am I not understanding?
If you have people frequently referring you to Dunning Kruger you may want to rethink things a bit.
I render my former answer. You don't care to learn, I don't care to teach.
My point. He is infallible, specifically in this matter.
And my point is that you're wrong.
John 13:34, Matthew 5:9, Matthew 26:52, Luke 6:27
The Pope is right to bring Jesus’ word to light here, if Vance is truly faithful. I wish you peace, verily.
So just like a complete non-sequitur then?
The pope needs to excommunicate JD
And then curbstomp him to drive the point home.
Oh dear, somebody has a lot of catching up to do. Start with Council of Nicea and go from there.
FUN FACT: Council of Nicea was formed to settle the age old debate of "should priests cut off their balls or not? On the one hand, Jesus said to do so... on the other hand, my balls."
I think time and experience has proved Jesus right - priests should definitely cut off their bollocks.
Not just priests! He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Castrati and eunochs only recently fell out of favor in the past century
Christians are surprisingly ignorant of their own history, it's kinda funny
Wow, there really is a passage for everything! New Testament too. Sounds like Christians should be getting busy with the pruning shears. Jesus actually recommends this as a cure for horniness. TBF I guess it would be an effective one.
See also: Skoptsy
The other part was to make it a patriarchal church instead of a matriarchal one. The Virgin Mary used to be the holy figure of Christianity, but men didn't like that.
Correction, used to be one of the holy figureS, there were other sects with their own favorites (like John the Baptist and many others).
They also tossed a lot of "in between" and after testimonies (Gospel of Thomas et al I think) and more.
BUT, the pressing issue was balls.
Coincidentally, the word "testimony" is derived from the old custom that referred to swearing an oath on your balls (testicles).
Lots of balls. balls balls balls
That obsession survives to this day
JD bout to start MAGA Catholicism and install himself as the pope.
A antipope you say? That hasn't happened in a long time.
A trailer park Avignon, lol.
(nothing against trailer parks . . . that aren't hosting their own dollar store pope)
Nah, Vance is going to jump over to evangelicalism. It's more expedient; the white supremacists have always been anti-Catholicism and this will only serve his larger purposes. Also, evangelicals are more lenient on divorce (unless Erica has already moved on since she dropped out of that recent TPUSA event that drew like eleven people the other day)
Think of all the leaders who told the Pope to fuck off in history. Nothing but great successes. Surely we're winning.
Henry VIII didn’t do so badly for himself.
JD Vance lying about his truthfulness and integrity, both of which are non-existent.
How can he call himself a catholic while disrespecting his own religious leader
Because his real faith is money
JD’s political career is over after this regime
Take him into a backroom with promises of a soft couch.
Then just fucking shoot him in the head. Lights out. No fanfare. Just gone.
Tell him he's getting a promotion
No, it's not. He'll flourish.
Watch and see!
We can't even get rid of Ted Cruz. They stay in office until they are half-dead (see Biden, Mitch, etc.)
What funny to watch (I mean, gallows humor funny) is that as Trump gets weaker, the various temptations for Crown Prince Couchfucker to coup him just grow exponentially.
I like to imagine Trump and Vance sitting across from each other, silently weighing each other up, Trump telling himself shit like "JD owes me everything, he wouldn't," and Vance just looking back across at Trump like Trump's a couch.
He's banking on being POTUS for the back half of Trump's term. Trump could keel over any day, but if he's still alive by New Year's we'll almost certainly see Vance try to remove him with the 25th. Once he's in power, he just needs to be less batshit than Trump for two years and he'll be in a good position to win an election.
"You shall know them by their fruits." - Jesus Christ
Neither Trump nor Vance are Christians.
Vance is kind of a fruit tho
Definitely a dingleberry.
How convenient for Christianity 🙄
Even the Apostles got it twisted while Jesus was alive. Luke 9:51-56 is relevant here.
Also, Jesus said you are immune to venom under His magical super powers, and this is why there are churches with snake handlers to this very day.
It's pretty funny, when the rattlers bite them they try to heal it with prayer before running to the ER.
They don't use King Cobras for some reason
Did you know God's favorite son (David) murdered two hundred men so that he could remove their foreskins? He used them to purchase a bride (her price was 100 foreskins, but David doubled that because, well, you know, he just really likes murdering men and cutting off their foreskins).
What kind of fruit is that? I dunno. maybe some kind of fruit roll-up
David wasn't God's Son nor was he a Christian, but you knew that already.
David WAS God's favorite, and we are all the children of God, according to God.
Are you calling God a liar? You'll burn for that!
Why does him not being Christian matter? What an odd thing to say!
He's God's favorite (according to God). God's favorite was a Jew, and the Son of God was also a Jew (and a rabbi, for that matter... note the capitalization of "Son" to elevate Jesus above any other sons of God, like David, the apple of God's eye).
This goes without saying, so you don't need to mention it any further.
At least Jews have an excuse, God appeared before them many times. Did God show Himself to any Christians? Not once! Christians are God's rejects, it seems (He didn't say that, this is my opinion, since God never appeared to Christians they can't be that important).
Unless you believe in the Book of Mormon, of course. Which is another can of worms. Worms that dyeth not, so to speak.
My take on this is that the Night of the Long Knives has clearly started in Trump's inner circle and Vance (sent to no-win scenarios in Hungary and Pakistan while Trump and Rubio were bro-bonding without him) is starting to feel on thin ice.
So he's trying to demonstrate how far backwards he can bend over to justify anything Trump decides to crap on Truth Social.
So, if you assume God did not like fascists in the 1940s - what makes you think he has changed his mind to now support you and your ilk, couch boy? That's a mighty big plank to pull from that eye of yours.
They don't think they're fascists, they think they're the good guys
Strongly disagree. Previous administrations, yes. Bush, certainly. But not this one. For that, corruption and self-enrichment are too rampant and poorly camouflaged (if at all), disdain for democratic institutions too blatant, preparations for an authoritarian power grab too brazenly obvious. These guys know who they are and who they serve, and they don't even feel the need to hide it any more. The mask is off.
Every member of this administration, past, present, and future, need to be held accountable when this is over. If we don't do that, then the Constitution, our laws, will continue to erode when the next batch of grifters show up to push the envelope to see how far they can bend and break the rules.
Are they trying to make an American Orthodox Church or something like that?
The Pentagon already threatened it mafia-style.
During the period in question, there were two Popes. One in the Vatican, and one in Avignon. I'm fairly certain that if the Vatican doesn't bend to Trump's will, there will soon be a Church of America with it's own Pope.
Can you imagine how trashy an American pope will be?
Complete with supply side Jesus
What a silly question. It's silly because it's based on the idea that God is a being who would pick sides in the first place. It is generally commonly thought by believers that we are all God's children. When your children get in a fight do you pick sides and cheer for one of them to kick the other's ass? I would hope not. I would hope that, as a parent, you would step in and try and stop the fight.
Assuming there is a God, I would hope he/she/it would just be terribly disappointed in all the children involved for not finding a way to settle their differences peacefully.
If you read the Bible, you'll find that God picked sides immediately, and has never stopped. He even has a "Chosen People", you can't possibly pick sides any further.
We may all be God's children, but remember, God is perfectly fine with murdering billions of His children, and not only that, He tortures them with Hell forever after. He can't even let them die in peace.
Yes, it is certainly silly, which makes it all the more horrifying
I feel like there's a really great Bob Dylan song that deals with this very topic... Maybe JD Vance should listen to it?
I'll stand over your grave till I'm sure that your dead!
Satire is dead
imagine one of these perpetual liars saying the pope is a liar.
I know it's a long shot but I desperately hope some of them live to regret this behavior.
Is this Onion? Why shouldn’t pope talk about theology? I thought it is like his area of expertise?
It is literally his job description to do so.
They think he fights crime
In his popemobile? Understandable.
i keep imagining CK3...
Pope Leo's Opinion of you -100
Call the holy league against USA
Shut the fuck up, James.
Jimmy Pants
I wasn't aware the Pope was a law enforcement official, or a foreign policy official. Gosh, where would we be without these little gems Trump keeps dropping?
As absolute monarch, he is in fact both of these thkngs.
vance would know, he reaped the last pope.
...because he's such an expert on theology? Oh JD, stfu and go home.
Ya, not enough prayers about how to love snd cherish your beautiful couches, they need JD love
So says the imbecile who quoted a Pulp Fiction as a bible verse, during a sermon that he gave, for which he has no skills or qualifications.
That was actually Pete Hesgeth, but your point stands regardless.
Ah, blimey, thanks for the correction. Mixed up my Nazis
is that a threat?
RIP Francis
Heretic.
I'm curious on what the MAGA boyz think of this sionist.
Trouble is you can justify anything you want with the Bible.
Picking a fight with the guy most identified with have some direct line of information with the god of your constituents though?
Would the makeup run if Couch Guyliner was excommunicated?
I don't know about this Pope guy, but I think I know a thing or two about the word of God.
Theology != truth
I... Hes like the only person who should be in that religion, isnt he?