Windows 11’s push for mandatory Microsoft accounts is hitting a nerve with users who say the change complicates setup, privacy, and basic PC ownership
https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/windows-11-mandatory-microsoft-account-community-reactionOpen linkView original on lemmy.nz921
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Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
a few years ago I had a really stupid issue with my laptop. about twice a year, for whatever reason, Windows 11 decided my internal wifi card wasn't worth existing and would just wipe it off the face of the earth. Just completely remove it, delete the drivers, everything. hard resetting the laptop didn't work, physically unplugging and replugging the card back in didn't work, manually installing the drivers didn't work. the ONLY way Windows would accept the card again was on a fresh OS install. So twice a year, like clockwork, i'd have to do that except the last time I couldn't because I needed an MS account. well I couldn't get online. for whatever reason it wouldn't allow me to connect to wifi and I didn't have access to an eithernet connection. So I gave up and finally decided to give this Linux thing a try. Installed Mint within 15min.
The added bonus of installing Linux on the laptop was it suddenly brought my battery back to life. on Windows I MAYBE got 30min out of a full charge. On Linux with a WM like Niri it's now a few hours. Linux also made me fall in love with the PC again. Now I'm on NixOS and i just love configuring my system or doing more dev work with ease thanks to nixshells.
Linux also made me love computing again!! So fun actually knowing your machine and being totally free to break it completely.
The best thing about breaking it is having a chance to set it up again more efficiently
Praise be!
I always have time to talk about The Admin. Should I make some
teacoffee to sip as we talk?Ha, "The Admin" brought to mind something I haven't thought about in years...
BOFH
Ohh..
I need to find these books.
Thank you.
Milk and sugar please.
I ran into my first people doing that for Jesus in many years last weekend. Was so bizarre. They just approached me randomly on the street.
Filthy heretics!
No, im sorry I dont have time for that, but have you heard of Linus Torvalds?
Only if you have a few minuets to talk about our Lord and Savoir Theo de Raadt
Don't forget stallman! (Yes I know about the scandals but dude did contribute essential software and ideas of libre to the foss community).
If by "complicates... basic PC ownership" they mean "infringes on your property rights as a computer owner," then they're finally catching on to what I've been saying for damn near a decade.
You should not accept having an abusive relationship with your operating system, and that's what Windows has been since at least 8 (when they started infecting it with "telemetry"), if not earlier. Have some goddamn self-respect, people! Kick Microsoft to the curb!
Google onboarding on Android...
The key difference is that there are credible alternatives in the PC OS space. If I could ditch Android/iOS without major pain, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Try GrapheneOS
Root and use custom roms.
Only works if your device has an unlockable bootloader, and most phones nowadays are completely locked down.
Most but not all. If someone cares THAT much about making a free account and telemetry, a few minutes on XDA won't hurt their schedule.
That's the direction that many manufacturers are trying to push PCs as well.
alas, most models of android phones don't have support from the custom roms that currently exist
If, the roms exist, there's clearly hardware for them....
And what should you suggest we should do with the ones that don't? Bury them all at some landfill?
Well, they were born e-waste, so yea. If the consumer is in middle of the lake of information, but refuses to drink anything but bottled corpo propaganda and dies from dehydration......
Also win8: Hey, would you like NOT having a desktop? We've got tiles now!
I literally just recommended CachyOS to my boss while we were complaining about Windows 11 in our one on one meeting today
It's like that vegan joke. How will you know if someone is a linux user? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
Especially Arch users.
Which I do not use.
I, on the other hand, do use Arch, btw :P
THE PROPHECY HAS COME TO PASS.
how the turntables
I mean I don't really recommend Linux like a lot of people do. I just mention it when it's appropriate and give a list of its drawbacks and benefits, according to specific use case. For home users I just say that Linux Mint or Zorin OS are fine and even better that Windows for this scenario, but I must be honest and also say that something like ChromeOS might be even better if an user spends their whole time in a web browser.
For professional usage (except coding lol) I never recommend or even mention Linux for variety of reasons.
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is supported until 2032 and free to activate.
It gives you 6 years to transition to a better OS. Or to become CEO of Microslop and improve things.
It's honestly great, even for me who only boot into windows once every few months.
Great in the sense I don't have to bother for 6 years for a partition I will use less than 24 hours over that period of time haha.
So far I've used it to scan once (for some reason that day skan decided to not work) and to make a windows install USB for my SO.
I tried Expedition 33 thinking performance issues were a Linux thing by no, it's just like that.
So it's a long term unlikely to be used OS, and for that long support is great.
Actually, one more use case is my SO. Can't/won't use Linux, and I'm not fighting. But needs an up to date OS on the ancient lappet laptop, so 10 IOT it is.
I'm hoping someone manages to make surface pro's fully compatible with linux in that time... (or that something that's compatible and serves SPs purpose becomes available)
It delays the problem for six more years, and it also gives me the satisfaction of
piratingtesting the only decent version of Windows free of Microslop bloat and vibe coded react.Please stop romanticising Win 10 just because it's less shitty than 11. There is no decent Windows.
Reminder: Win 10 introduced
Reminder that they backported the Windows 10 telemetry to Windows 7 as well.
Yup. That's what made me ditch Win 7 long before EOL and switch to Linux. Been here for ten years now. Life's good. 🌱
The last good Windows was Windows 98
For people with a BSOD fetish? Definitely!
Don't yuck my yum
I'm not. It's just... why can't you play with penguins like the other boys?
Gives 6 more years for Adobe and my online games to start supporting Linux D: (or the Adobe alternatives to become more suitable for professional use)
I can’t help you with the games. You could vote with your wallet and just not play those specific ones. Start hitting that backlog of games you got on sale and never opened.
Regarding Adobe suite in a professional manner, I’m pretty sure they work on MacOS.
You always have choices. They may not be perfect but they do exist nonetheless. These companies will never stop being invasive if users keep giving in. Until “number go down” in board meetings, nothing changes.
Oh I'm not paying for them, but still one of my main daily drivers is Genshin, and I haven't found such an enjoyable open world exploration in any other game I've tried. (I'm PC-only so haven't tried Breath of the Wild.)
I would never touch a Mac, it's way more of a walled garden than Windows.
Also I was talking about Adobe alternatives like Inkscape for Illustrator or Scribus for InDesign. From what I've read they are really not there yet. (Tried Inkscape a few times, but the UI is so unintuitive for my brain used to Adobe's UI/workflow 😭)
Genshin is playable on Linux? I play it on my Steam Deck.
Thanks, that's good to know! From what I've read a few months ago when I last looked into it, it only worked with a fan-made launcher that posed a ban risk and also broke every few updates.
I just add the official launcher as a non-steam game and ran through the install as normal.
Granted I haven't done it in a couple of months, so not sure if that method still works...but I don't see why not
Thanks, I'll check out Where Winds Meet! :)
(Edit: according to their Steam page they use genAI dialogue and art, so that's a pass :/ )
From the reports I see on WineHQ, they are all various levels of broken, though the last versions tested were from 2024.
Genshin Impact works on Linux: https://lutris.net/games/genshin-impact/
I'm Linux only and I've played Breath of the Wilds (works on Windows too).
Go to your favorite torrent site (1337x to) and search for Breath of the Wild. It'll be packaged with the emulator so you don't need to do anything. It's a better experience, higher framerate, antialiasing, 4k upscaling and reverse tonemapping (Windows calls this autoHDR) (and basically anything that you can do with ReShade)
A few months ago someone made a patch which makes the Adobe CC 2021 and 2025 installer work in Wine.
https://www.xda-developers.com/someone-finally-got-the-adobe-cc-installers-working-on-linux-with-wine/
Come on in, the Linux water is fine :)
I always thought of Macs as not a good value before, but nowadays for laptops at least they seem to be relatively good.
I still find them annoyingly unintuitive, but that's probably due to lack of experience. At least they come with some (old) version of bash and support standard stuff like ssh out of the box from my understanding.
Haha yes, when I had to use a Mac once in uni it was like they made a point of doing everything just different enough from Windows to be annoying, like why are the window close buttons on the left?!
I play heavily modded games and it's a hassle to make some of them work in Linux. Ltsc helps me give some time until modding in Linux gets better support.
It gives us 6 years to grow the Linux user base so that software devs, game devs, etc. make their products with Linux specifically in mind instead of creating poor ports or excluding the OS entirely.
Linux adoption is only going up.
Was it a hoax that Microsoft came after Massgrave?
LTSC is pretty much what Windows should be. And MS hates people are using it so it means it's the best choice.
Microsoft doing their part to get people to move to Linux
More "Microsoft doing their part to get people used to the idea of having to login with an internet connection so that they can make Windows 12 subscription based."
Thats what this bullshit is. Training the user base for OSaaS.
And they will have enterprise by the balls because they control like 90% of the enterprise market. The consumers, they could give a fuck if they take it or leave it. Windows licensing is such an teeny tiny part of the equation that screaming at them is going to get as much traction as screaming at Nvidia for the fact that a midrange GPU is 1000 bucks now. Nvidia doesnt care if their consumer gpu market disappears tomorrow, they've got the AI fucks locked in.
Wow. This is absolutely has to be the reason. There is nothing better than a recurrent revenue stream. Look at Spotify, Netflix business model.
Really. And even better, now they can granularize Windows even further. Windows 11 Home or Pro? Naw fam, that's not enough. You'll have the baseline Windows 12 sub for $10 per month...seems reasonable, right? Except that's the baseline. That's the version that can only make use of, at maximum, 4 CPU cores. Want to use all the cores in your bomb ass new processor? You need to bump up to the $20 per month subscription which includes the CPU-MAX add on. Not a fan of the basic Windows wallpaper? Well, fret not! You just need to download the Personalization add-on for an additional $5 per month and now you can change your wallpaper. Hey, is that a new GPU you got there? Yeah, you're going to need to spring for the Gamer bundle...$20 a month for that, on top of the base sub. Oh and don't forget about your local storage...they can subscription lock that, too. "You don't even need local storage anyway! Just use OneDrive!!! It's only a few bucks extra per month!!"...deliberately priced far less than the local storage subscription so that they can scrape all your shit for marketable data which you'll see in the fine print of the ToS they're allowed to do with abandon.
Go to turn on HDR..."sorry, you need the graphics booster add on". Try to output 5.1 audio? "Sorry, no can do, you get 2.0 only, peasant, you didn't sign up for the media add-on." Want to throw another stick of memory in your rig to extend it's life? "Sorry, base Windows can only use 16GBs...you need the performance package to address anything more."
And you know what the best part is? This shit would all likely be legal. Know how I know? Because Windows enterprise server and software licensing is already like this, and has been for years.
Shit is so fucked man...
Heated seats in luxury cars.
I'm in the process of getting my kids their first PC this Christmas. They'll both get a mini-PC, with severely restricted Internet access. I'm actually thinking about just letting them connect to the home server where I'd mock the Web sites I pick for them. For this reason, Win11 with its online account requirement is automatically excluded from consideration. I wated to give them Mint anyway, but this was the argument that convinced my wife.
You should keep an eye on Gnome. Their recent release, Gnome 50, just introduced parental controls to limit access to programs and they're looking to implement website access as well.
I don't like Gnome, but my kid's first PC will have Gnome on it now because of these new features, which I greatly appreciate
I think you should let the kid just use variety of systems and desktops over time. It's fine if it likes something different than you in the end as well, and there's a chance that they will like GNOME more if they are more used to mobile UI's.
Mocking up whole websites seems like a pain. With a Pihole, you can create different service groups for computers and apply a whitelist to just their machines. Plus you get adblocking too!
Lol I assumed OP meant mock as in "You want to go to tiktok? What a horrible site. You have bad taste."
You should do that as well, to protect the kids from those brain rot slop websites
Yeah, could also have two Pi-Hole instances. One is network wide and block ads for everyone, and the other is the DNS the kids PCs use, set with a white list of approved sites only. You can set Pi-hole to block everything (set * as the a RegEx filter) and then add domains to the white list to be allowed through.
Groups is probably more efficient but two instances could be offer more options/nuance on how you run things.
I tried pi-hole, but it turned in a real pain, trying to set it up for normal use, plus two WFH offices. I may give it another try, when I feel more patient.
The idea of mocking websites came from talking to other parents from my kids' school. I was thinking about some form of a local "internet" for our neighbourhood for all the kids. Heavily curated, a mix of mock sites (like the full download of Wikipedia), news through RSS, moderated message boards, etc. I don't think it's an original idea given the current state of the Internet, so at this stage I'm just reading up on design best practices.
In the past, I've used Adguard Home, and I liked it. When I tried to my Adguard server as the DNS for my router, though, my WFH corporate VPN wouldn't connect, so there's that. Granted, I was using it to remove ads, but people seem to like it for parental controls too.
Just put 3.1 on those and let them play solitaire to their hearts content.
If they get Windows 95, they can also play Hearts to their Solitaire's content.
Windows 95 with the Microsoft Entertainment Pack
I have a working emachines desktop with Win98. They'll pry it off my cold, dead hands...
Whoa. Parents…. Parenting??
In all seriousness, if more parents were proactive like you, we wouldn’t have all this under 16 social media ban and shit.
I saw a deal for a pair of mini PCs with decent specs on eBay right after I got my annual bonus, so I jumped on it because I want to do the same thing for my kids. May be jumping the gun a bit...my son just learned the alphabet (uppercase only) and my daughter just learned how to flop off the couch head-first.
It's a hell of a moment when they can out perform their parents, isn't it?
My wife taught my son English uppercase letters, so I've been teaching him Greek lowercases. I can't help but feel proud every time he says "pi"
...but who taught her to flop off the couch? That sounds like an aunt or uncle.
She independently discovered it haha. I sit her down on the couch next to me while I'm working, and she constantly flops over. It drives me nuts! I would let her just do her thing, but she's got pretty bad reflux and even just a minute or two of tummy time within like 2 hours of having a bottle will make her ralph.
The other day, I had to get up for a minute or two, and I left her on the couch. My better judgment kicked in and I pushed an ottoman next to the couch to block the space she usually tries to launch into. This is what I came back to see:
My kids are a little older - just learned to read without sounding off the words - so I need to introduce parental controls. But you may see your purchase as an investment: a year from now, the hardware may be worth twice as much.
That's the main reason I jumped on them. I've seen an increasing trend of people selling old computers with the RAM and HDDs taken out
My kids’ devices are blocked from internet access in my OpenWRT firewall and I run a Squid proxy on my server with an allowlist of domains they can access.
I still have an unused, boxed WRT-54G. Granted, it's only 802.11b/g, but good enough for casual browsing, and I have experience setting up OpenWRT there. Thanks for helping me remember; I'll use that for the kids.
Smart move, with the brain rot cancer that internet has become these days, it's best to keep your kids away from it until their brains finish developing a bit
Windows 11 has given me so many headaches at work I have genuinely explored moving the entire corporate environment to Linux. Unfortunately it would be a massive multi-year operation that would not bring the amount of benefits required to get such a thing greenlighted. But simply the fact that I, and many peers, took a good hard look at it tells you just how incredibly shit Windows 11 is. It's a fucking nightmare on so many levels, it's ridiculous.
They know that, that's why they do it.. And that's why you should go ahead with it..
Yeah I'm in a (primarily) Windows shop too, but we have many Linux servers that I manage and maintain. My DD at home is CachyOS, and I'm very familiar with management of a fleet of Ubuntu servers. I've already told the guys on my team I'm ready to just switch at work too. Might cause me some management issues at times though because of needing Windows Server management tools (e.g. RSAT), but I suppose I could jump box that.
I'm sure the fact that the Steam Hardware Survey just hit 5.33% Linux has absolutely NOTHING to do with Microsoft's continued pants-on-head stupid and anti-consumer approach to things.
Nah, Hanlon's razor has worn put here.
Microsoft probably knows what they're doing with their anti-customer approach... and it's nothing good.
In capitalist USA the computer own you… Or something like this?
In Soviet Linux, you own PC
In American Windows, PC own you
Windows 10 kept throwing up full screen ads for whatever bullshit they were trying to get me to sign up for while also telling me my computer wasn't good enough for Windows 11.
And that's how I ended up with Mint on my desktop and laptop a couple months ago.
I have to use Windows for work, but my personal machines are Linux and macOS at this point, and I have zero intention of buying another windows license.
Just moved my parents onto Mint, they were hesitant at first but now doing great. MS is digging it's own grave.
My 80 yr old mother got a laptop recently, W11. I downgraded to W10 LTSC, and dual boot with Mint, and ran Chris Titus' win util to decrapify. Two weeks later she had allowed windows to trick her into upgrading to W11 again.
She's been using computers since the 70's, and owned PCs since the DOS era, but she just doesn't want to bother with anything but using her PC in autopilot mode. Couldn't care less about exploring Mint.
I also just replaced Windows 10 with Mint recently. I did sadly buy Windows 11 proper at some point for my new office PC, which thankfully has been okay after I turn off the copilot shit. And I'm stuck with it until a few programs get some Linux support.
But regardless, I sure won't be buying anything more from Windows.
I'm not sure what your use cases and performance requirements are, but Windows works great in a VM.
I rarely use it, but I happened to fire it up today and after updating it I got a full screen ad to start backing up my computer to their shit.
Everyone is thinking about this wrong. MIcroslop will only do their enterprise customers dirty at the very end, when they are dropping the Windows product altogether. How do SysAdmins do Windows 11 installs at their workplace? How are we expected to provision PCs without a MS account. Select add to domain and use your router as a 'fake' DC and then set the settings back to normal after the install. They can not remove that method, it is absolutely required for using DCs and MS makes a shit load of money licensing DCs. You have to pay per user.
Microsoft wants to kill on-prem for enterprise. Windows 11 Enterprise is a monthly subscription to your Office 365, sorry Microsoft 365, wait no Copilot 365 account. Exchange Server 2019 is the end with their subscription only version replacing it. They're retiring Dynamics on prem to move you to the cloud.
The cloud services are parted out just right that you get almost everything you're trying to do with one package, only to need the next level up at double the price for one little thing, or an add-on service that just so happens to need the E3 version instead of E1. Oh but you can pay twice as much again for the all-in-one bundle, it comes with everything! Expect that thing you need for regulatory compliance, that's still extra. It's like they studied the predatory pricing of freemium games and went "we can do better than that"
Selling you an OS once is of no interest to them. Monthly charges? Better but still not enough. All of your data flowing through their systems, ripe for harvesting and vendor lock-in? That's the good stuff.
I think enterprise is the least affected.
Win11 installs are done with Autopilot. Users log in with their company MS accounts and if admins need access they log in with the LAPS account.
Enterprise moved away from local accounts even before COVID.
This is the case where I work.
Oh no!
Anyway..
I use Linux BTW.
Microsoft and privacy shouldn't be used in the same sentence other than for sarcasm purposes.
Or as a warning.
This is the actual reason i didn't end up going with win11, and tried Linux. Seemed like about a similar amount of bullshit to get to know my way around linux as it did doing regedits and getting around using an account.
I am now firmly in the camp of every option being terrible in some way.
Still using bazzite though, so it's not worse.
Bazzite is underrated, its a great desktop os out of the box with solid gaming support.
Well, sure. Still had a bunch of unexpected weird stuff.
Genuine question, what was "unexpected/weird" for you?
I don't disagree, in fact I'm in a similar situation coming to Bazzite from Windows. But I'd like to know what your experience has been like so far, Maybe I will learn something.
My own personal gripe is that they removed Discover in favor of their own store "bazzar" and I feel its just worse in every way so I tried to put it back and now Discover will "launch" and immediately crash.
Monitor snapping issues (program opens on the wrong monitor and figuring out how to force it somewhere else), VPN program not working because it's an immutable distro, Stream deck unexpected behaviour (What functions can it use, sometimes it disconnected on a different usb hub) etc. Also some incompatibilities, can't use fusion 360 (didn't work at all last time i tried it)
There are a few others but those come to mind.
I have found Proton VPN works for me none of the others I've tried seem to function. I'm using it on a my livingroom pc so I don't have any input on the steam deck specific issues, in fact I prefer Steam OS and I wish there was an official desktop release already.
I use windscribe. Happy so far, and direct connection works well enough. Also stReam deck (Elgato). It works pretty well on my Legion go too.
The only reason I don’t install Linux on my NVMe drive and leave it on my SSD is that I can’t reinstall Windows with a local account (though maybe there’s a painful workaround). If they break, they’re gone forever.
Just an idea:
ddto clone your NVME Windows drive.I bet you'll eventually reclaim the HDD, though. I kept mine for about two years, and I nuked it last week, because I hadn't even opened it, much less booted it, in over a year.
You can also just assign the drive you just created to a vm via VFIO. No need to dual boot.
Chris Titus's WinUtil. In it is a tool called MicroWin that can create a custom installation media which will allow local accounts and also remove all the telemetry, adverts and all the other crap.
There's an easy workaround : install W10 with a local account, then upgrade. No need for any kind of workaround. Disclaimer : this might have worked because I'm in Europe.
Otherwise, there are workarounds for a vanilla install with only local accounts that still works to this day, I did that in a VM. But that's flimsy.
Of course, this leaves you to the whim of "fucking microsoft, we'll screw you forever, bork your data when we want, force you to change computer every other year, and you'll love it", but the option exists.
I’m in Australia and this works. At least the last time i installed windows.
Works.
Rufus can still bypass every single W11 requirement and automatically complete the setup for you, including a local account.
I might try it, because my old SSD is only 250GB and my NVMe is 2TB bought 3 years ago when the prices were normal. Now isn't worth it to buy another NMVe, especially when I use Windows less and less every day.
There will be always a workaround, because Windows NT was originally built with local accounts in mind and the whole system's architecture is based on that. Even if they block every possible way to do that using their official installation media, someone will just create a custom disc image, some script or whatever that you will be able to use to have a local account.
Sail the high seas. Also, you absolutely can still skip logging in and setup a local account.
"complicates" is the mildest, nicest perspective
they didn't have room for "is entirely fucking unnecessary" in the headline
That was probably the working title for the article
That or "what the fuck, Microslop?"
Oh? Who would have thought? I sometimes wonder what kind of limbo people live in that this hasn't been the clear picture for most since Windows 7.
Social inertia.
Yeah, led like sheep by the illusion of convenience. It is sad.
I've been reading all over the place how people are finally becoming more aware of the lack of privacy, but I scratched that as me always seeing this because I mostly interact in privacy and security related environments.
However, the least likely person I know to be concerned about these factors is my brother, as he's all about convenience and 'glamour'. Well, he called me on Sunday to ask me if I suggested that he flashed "that operating system you use on your phone" (GrapheneOS) on his device, and asked if I knew what proton was 🤣 only to mention that he had found that and was in the process of dropping gmail. Imagine my surprise when this guy is calling for this.
What I'm trying to say is that, if my brother is suddenly concerned about his digital privacy and security, I am certain 50% of Normie's out there are as well, or will be pretty soon.
I genuinely believe that we're living in a pivotal moment in digital philosophy across all realms, people are finally waking up from the convenience slumber, and my hope is that this will help shift the discourse all over the place, and we can all expect more of the people in our environments start asking questions about how to fly under the radar.
Since all of the “Linux is easy” folk are here I’ll ask a question even though I’m not near my PC:
I’m dual booting W11 and ZorinOS, I have 3 drives and only the OS drive mounts at boot. The other 2, games SSD and a storage HDD, have to mounted manually. An online search yielded that this was “expected behaviour” and “how it’s designed to work” but unfortunately it confuses Steam each time I boot because as far as Steam is concerned the drive ceases to exist.
Has anyone else had the same issue? I think I could use crontab to mount the drives at boot but it seems like something that shouldn’t be happening at all.
Not sure what you searched for to get those answers, all I had to search was "Linux mount at boot" to get this answer with directions for editing /etc/fstab or using the gnome disk utility gui based on your preference
It's absolutely bananas that internal drives are not mounted automatically by standard. It's even more bananas that it's not easily customizable via GUI. Gnomes partitioning app can somewhat do it I believe, in KDE's partitioning app, it was completely broken last time I tried. Either way I lost two people back to Windows because of this
Yeah its not a perfect system, has some flaws, but its actual freedom from surveillance and late stage capitalism on the plus side.
Not bad for a free, modern desktop that looks stunning.
Absolutely! I've been on Linux since 2017 and KDE Plasma since 2019-ish. It outperforms Windows even in terms of usability/ease of use in most cases. My 70+ years old, tech-illiterate parents happily use it.
But things like mounting and partitioning make me scratch my head. KDEs partitioner requires sudo rights to even start and then formats partitions in a way that you need sudo rights to access it. It's annoying and would be very easy to fix.
You can fix it yourself also, just add the command being run to the sudoers file and it will always run as root without needing your input.
Im sure chat gpt can give you the exact command to put in.
While I do agree with you on principle, keep in mind that while NTFS is technically supported in Linux there can still be issues. Reading is fine, but write can still be suspect. Someone a lot more experienced than I can correct this if I'm wrong, but it is not recommended to share a drive actively between Windows and Linux due to NTFS quirks.
I mount my Windows NTFS data disk as needed in CachyOS, and will build the NAS I keep putting off for active file sharing as I spend more time on the Linux partition.
Yeah NTFS is not a great experience indeed. You can only do so much without it being open source. But I also experienced issues with mounting ext4 or btrfs. It's not a dealbreaker for me, but it tends to irritate new users while it seems easy to fix.
Very true, not a user friendly experience at all. My only experience with setting up automatic mounting was looking into mounting my "user drive" (separate SSD that I redirect all Windows stock folder structure like Documents or Downloads to) into at the time Manjaro, and abandoning the idea after reading about NTFS write concerns and experiencing chkdsk actions in Windows every time I even just mounted it. All my ext4 or btrfs drives were created during Linux installation and mapped automatically.
Admittedly in CachyOS now I have yet to generate a chkdsk after mounting, browsing or copying data out of my NTFS user drive, so that may have been a Manjaro thing (along with breaking either itself or the bootloader ever single update). Still not risking the drive by auto mounting it or writing to it.
Not sure, but I’ll give that a go this weekend when I have some time to play around with it. Many thanks!
this was the only confusing thing I found withWheb I started using Linux, but once I got my drive mounting at boot at startup.
I don't have any problem with doing it anymore but why don't beginner friendly distros have like a gui version or something easier to do that with for new users?
The hard part is knowing exactly what language to search to get the result you want.
I had to figure this out the hard way because everywhere I asked the question I'd get told how I was wrong and it's good actually. So good luck finding anything helpful for your specific install. I will share with you some links that kinda got me there. I had to figure out most of the steps individually and piece them together from multiple sources.
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/mounting-permanently-a-storage-unit-in-fedora-kde-automount-at-boot-no-password-all-users-can-see-and-edit-files/148030/15?replies_to_post_number=16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eoq_cgAWMmQ
https://universal-blue.discourse.group/t/auto-mounting-secondary-drives/970
I'm not sure sure how relevant those links will be as I was trying to do the same on bazzite and not zorin but hopefully they help. If you are able to install gnome disks (if you haven't already) there is a checkbox to do it for you but I forget where it is. I have a little document typed up on my PC at home that I can share with you as well when I get there later on the off chance that it is helpful. If you have questions, ask away I'm not sure I will be helpful but I'll do what I can.
FYI, linux seems to hate NTFS partitions and that may be a contributing factor here.
You can mount your drives on boot in fstab (/etc/fstab). This is only a low-key pain in the ass, and it's probably a good thing your internally installed drives won't change very often.
If whatever method you use to mount them outright requires using the full
mountcommand, possibly with a shitload of parameters attached, you can also do it on boot as a cron job that fires on boot (crontab -e) by prefacing the command with@rebootrather than the usual set of time parameters. This is how I handle e.g. mounting complicated network shares on my servers. This will fire before you even get to your login screen, so the drives ought to be accessible by the time Steam has to do whatever it does.I mentioned previously the I had a little document written up, keep in mind this is how I did it on Bazzite so your mileage may vary but here it is.
To auto mount drives on Bazzite with KDE open terminal and type
(if you are using Gnome or already have Gnome disks installed you can skip to "open disks")
sudo rpm-ostree install gnome-disk-utility
Wait for-ev-er..................
Reboot
Open "disks"
Select your disk you want to auto mount
You'll see an icon that looks like a window with a play symbol in it that is "Additionaal Partition Options"
Click on it and select "Edit Mount Options"
You may or may not have to toggle user session defaults
Check the box that says mount on startup
Enter your password if asked and reboot to verify.
If I were ever to use that Microslop thing they call OS, it would be mandatory to have a local user.
I do not mind if some/any OS has optional accounts for online services, nor do I mind possibility to use online account instead of local one.
As long as everything is purely optional and thus giving convenience or usability depending on the usercase.
Today is a good day to try Linux.
(maybe best to start with Mint or Ubuntu? At least that's how I did. They have a "live" version you can try out before committing to it)
correct me if My memory is wrong but I seem to remember something like this happening with Windows 10 and then someone came up with a way to install without logging in first but I've never seen a Windows 10 installation that didn't have a Microsoft user logged into it
I have never used a Windows machine with a Microsoft account for my own personal use, only if it was somebody else's PC that already had it. I just keep it disconnected from the internet during setup and it eventually gives me the option to not use it with a Microsoft account.
There is a command to disable the account setup too but I have only used that once. The disconnecting from the internet trick works for me.
I mostly use GNU/Linux for my own use but on the rare occasion I setup Windows for someone else or need to use it, I just disconnect it / don't connect it to the internet before setup.
Edit:
The reason bypassing the forced account with up to date Windows 11 was still so easy for me is likely because I used the Pro edition and possibly may have used the setup for work feature when I installed it recently.
Pretty sure they blocked that no internet option too, though Rufus has a checkbox to re-enable it.
I just installed Windows 11 not too long ago (maybe 4 months ago) on a computer and it worked without even using the command to bypass it I am pretty sure. I didn't use Rufus or any special option prior to writing it to the flash drive. All I did was disconnect an ethernet cable and install and at some point it just gave me the option to bypass the creation of a Microsoft account. I remember there used to be a special username and password you could use that would bypass it too but I didn't use that as far as I can remember. I may have possibly tried entering random info until it failed enough times that it allowed me to do it but I'm not sure.
Idk why my experience is different from what some others are reporting. I am pretty sure I didn't have to put the command in or do anything too special other than disconnecting from the internet and maybe possibly trying a couple of times to login till it failed multiple times but I don't remember if I did that. Obviously since it would have been disconnected from the internet logins to a Microsoft account would not work anyway but it might have still asked me but I just remember at some point it just gave me the option to create a local only account.
I used Windows 11 Pro.
I didn't put in a product key when I installed idk if that would have made a difference but that's one aspect I can think of that might be possibly different from some people's installs so I figured I would at least mention that even if it probably makes no difference. I know Windows can read the product key from the motherboard but in my case I installed it one of my computers that was bought from a linux hardware vendor so it would not have come with anything like that. (I know blasphemy hehe but I needed Windows for something Windows specific that has anti virtual machine detection too and many of the computers in my house are from linux hardware companies to support the linux ecosystem).
Edit : So someone I know said that if you use Windows 11 Pro there is a way to use an option for setting up for work and a domain that it will prompt you to create a local account. Maybe that is what I ended up doing that made the difference that made it so easy to bypass the Microsoft account.
I think there's generally always been some hackish way around, and the hackish way frequently changes between releases of installation media.
Also, when Windows Update deploys certain things, if you have a system that did this, you may get a full screen thing telling you to set up a microsoft account roughly "for your own good". Even when you bypass that, the start menu and notification area generally are eager to suggest hooking your system up to a microsoft account.
They decided that since Android can so aggressively push Google accounts, they should get the same scheme going, but Microsoft has this pesky pre-always-online history of being an offline capable OS.
At the moment if you create your installation media with Rufus it can just do it. A simple checkbox before you write to your USB drive overrides the Microsoft account requirement and even allows you to create a local account with a specific name in advance. Yes, even for the current versions of Windows which are full of the latest bullshit, and in which Microsoft claim they have "removed" the workarounds. It's always been the easiest way.
silly me making registry entries and edits to remove their bullshit from the OS.
Well, to be fair you still want to do that to remove/disable some of the other bullshit aspects. Don't worry, you'll still have regedit on speed dial if you want to retain any type of sanity.
To this day, you can still create local accounts at setup
First last and only time I ever tried to get a microsloth account, they fucked up my password selection and basically locked me out of my system wherein resided my steam account, emulation, and music libraries and all of my non steam games. Never ever did that again
I logged into azure on my home PC with the master account in work (I know i know) and now my home PC account is renamed after the company founder, who doesn't even work any more.
Wtf Microsoft. Just stop.
Dear Micro$lop: Quit trying to make it happen
For now I'm happy with Windows 10 LTSC on my main rig. I use Debian on my laptop and Ubuntu on my server. I don't know what I'll do in 2032 when LTSC support ends. I'd like to go to Debian on my main rig but some software simply won't work without hassle (if at all). I hope that changes until then, I love Debian with KDE Plasma.
Out of curiosity, what software? It won't run with Wine? Maybe there's a decent enough alternative?
The Adobe stuff, Vst's, etc.
Tons of VST's work using yabridge.
Not Native Instruments though (their VST's should work but I can't get Native Access to run). And I don't run any VST's that need iLok.
Yabridge has a bug with wine versions later than (I think) 9.22, where the VST thinks the mouse is in another place than it really is.
Solutions are : make sure the VST window is at 0,0, or use an older version of wine, or there is a patch for yabridge that works in most cases, but hasn't been merged in yet. I'm running that.
I know tons of vst's work on Linux, just not the one I use. The problem is people need specific software not that just any software in that class.
Sorry but this is what irks me when people say not everything will work on Linux. There's always someone saying "but you have alternative on Linux" like every program is the same.
You can't expect someone that uses Photoshop professionally to just start using Gimp in an industry where Photoshop is the standard that everyone uses. Gimp, while impressive, is not Photoshop and requires a totally different workflow. And it's simply not doable when you're working with people using and expecting Photoshop. You also can't expect someone to have to tinker with their PC every time, just to work. People that use their PC to work need it to be reliable. People that use computers as a tool, not to make a political statement.
In my case, I know there are vst's on Linux. They just don't have the quality that Amplitube has. And you can't tell people to "just switch, bro" when they already paid for Amplitube. For these people, at least for now, Windows is pretty much the only option.
Sorry for the rant, I'm done.
Like someone said here, by 2032 wine will run all that. That's where my hopes are. When that happens more people will use Linux (I know I will) and with more users more companies will start making native Linux versions. Things have already improved tremendously in the last 15 years. I truly believe there will be a critical point soon that will make explode Linux adoption.
But, for now, you have to understand Linux is not yet an option for some specific needs.
I have total studio 5 max, which includes amplitube. I haven't used amplitube yet, but I could try it if you like. Haven't had problems with the other IK Multimedia products thought. I also own the whole Arturia suite (instruments & FX), cherry audio and Melda suites, all without issues. And lots of one-offs.
As I said : native instruments plugins were, and still are, the main ones that give me grief. Given that I had bought Komplete Ultimate edition (version 13 or 14), that was a bit of a bummer. But I've always hated Kontakt. And their other products were also always not quite what I needed.
In total I have about 750 windows vsts running on my Linux machine. Lots of them are doubles, because I have both the vst2 and vst3 version of the plugin when available, but that still leaves me with more than 300 unique windows vsts. If you tell me what vsts you want to run, I'll check if I have them, or stuff made by the same people. And if I don't have anything, usually they have demos I can try. Or you might point me towards something I want as well.
Just ask me.
Well, I've tried it, and Amplitube runs just fine in linux. Here's a screenshot running amplitube 5 in Bitwig 6
By 2032 Wine will probably be advanced enough to run any Windows program
Yeah, its a terrible idea
Setup = download Linux iso > flash memory device > boot > install.
Where do the complications come in?
The complication comes from when I need to use proprietary windows-only software for whatever professional or recreative reasons.
Free (as in freedom) software is great for 90% of situations, but there are things free software just can not do.
Wine exists but it's mostly focused on video-games, and honestly, it's such a pain to get a windows program to run on wine that I prefer to just have a second SSD with Faildos and boot from it when I eventually need to use such programs. Which I make sure to unplug the ethernet cable when I do.
Bottles has made wine a lot better. Also, I keep a Windows in a VM, isolated where it belongs.
Unfortunately VMs aren't a solution for my use case since I need no latency realtime audio or GPU acceleration
I just vm'd my entire win 7 machine with no nic.
Unfortunately VMs aren't a solution for my use case since I need no latency realtime audio or GPU acceleration
ugh. Get that. For that use case I actually ended up getting a cheap little KVM and migrated my win7 build to a rackmounted box with a CRU. No NIC, I KVM over when doing data recovery (or playing bullfrog games)
Running windows in a VM is still... running Windows. It's not idealistically different to having a dedicated Windows computer. There's nothing magical about running Linux as a host that makes Windows less evil.
We're literally talking about proprietary software that has no linux or mac equivalent. This is not the place for you to try putting the morality of windows users on trial.
When does that come up recreationally?
If I can't do something I don't do it.
Specialist audiovisual, and 3D software.
But I can, all I need is a pirate copy of the software, and extra SSD and computer goes brrrr.
Life is too short for me impose restrictions on myself and missout on life just because Richard Stallman says so.
When drive doesn't automount and you have to manually edit fstab file
https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
A late stage capitalism indicator: corporatised capital theft.
At some point you have to realise they have not innovated on their operating system in over 2 decades and as a result they are just that far behind everyone else.
Meanwhile FOSS Operating Systems are just so far beyond Microsoft's reach now. All the While they did nothing but create new ways to squeeze customers for lipstick on the pig.
If we somehow could run windows in a container and not allow it network access.
To people still on Windows 11 go back to Windows 10 some way somehow if you really are set on not using Linux for whatever reason
You can enable extended service updates for windows 10. Check https://massgrave.dev/ for more info. Gives you ~2.5 more years of security patches.
Chris Titus' windows utility will decrapify Windows quite a bit, including removing telemetry, copilot and much more stuff for those unable/unwilling to move to Linux.
For those a bit more adventurous he provides a Microwin install image creator that tweaks a standard ISO to be as light as possible, removing as much crap as possible during install, making install un atended, and creating a local account.
You mean the same people who have no problem setting up an android/gmail or ios/apple account on their phones? Talk about double standards.
There's a certain value gained from those. Contacts/apps/photos sync and backup. And atleast on Android, you can skip it and use regardless.
This is about MS making the UX worse without any user benefits.
Just some extra steps for me.
So I still don’t get where it’s “forced”. I downloaded a 25H2 ISO a couple weeks ago and installed on a VM from scratch. I chose Work computer, and under other options “Domain Join”. It asked me to create a local account…. And that was it.
The only thing I can think is it’s for “Home” editions, which you wouldn’t want to run anyway as that’s where all the testing crap goes.
Just install 7 Ultimate and keep it moving.
Too new. I'm running Windows 2000 Advanced Server.