Porn ban: Australians must prove they are over 18 to access adult content under new laws
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy92qpv424oOpen linkView original on lemmy.world300
Comments55
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy92qpv424oOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
If it's illegal anyway, you might as well pirate it.
I like godnroc's suggestion of having bottle-o's sell cards with proof of age numbers/hashes.
No problem giving those codes to minors. I bet such codes would be sold on the net withing 1 minute of the release of such a system.
Remembering that a valid age verification is supposed to be a parent approving their child's use
"Muuuuu-uuum! I wanna have a wank to incest porn! Can you come and verify me?!"
“Not now son, I’m stuck in the washing machine!”
Insane, I came up with the exact same idea when reading the article then scroll down and you’ve linked to someone else saying it too.
Last time I checked, the darknet marketplaces have whole sections just for stolen pr0n site username/passwords
EDIT: example screenshot
Uhhhh no.
Explain your objection. It's a parenting problem, not everyone else's.
Parents already have the tools to block this at the network layer, including in mobile OSes. There’s no need to add age verification at all to anything. The parents control their kids devices, so don’t give them a device they can access this stuff on.
These tools have existed for literal decades at this point. Anyone trying to add something now is just trying to make it easier for the government to spy on you.
Cool: agreed. Your objection was ambiguous.
If we had to choose, though, I'd consider the professor's suggestion preferable to age verification. While I disagree with mandating it, it'd pretty much do nothing, because it's already reality: most mainstream OSs include parental controls. The "criteria" would establish standards for parental controls, which isn't altogether a bad idea. A better idea would be to promote a standard & replace mandates with public services to provide parental control technologies free & to educate parents.
In the late 90s, when US Congress attempted to regulate access of adult content to minors, those laws commissioned studies that drew similar conclusions even then. The studies & federal courts concluded that to meet the government's compelling interest in "protecting minors from harmful content", there were more narrowly tailored alternatives to criminalization & age verification that are less restrictive to fundamental rights & are at least as effective:
They pointed out while client-side filters may have false positives & negatives
Criminalizing access to adult content at the source obstructs everyone's access & burdens them with loss of privacy & with security risk.
Despite their age, those studies' findings remain relevant.
::: spoiler COPA Commission summary The COPA Commission found Age Verification ID to have the highest adverse impact on cost, privacy, fundamental rights, and law enforcement and to score poorly on effectiveness and accessibility. They found other technologies & methods to be more effective & accessible with much lower adverse impact including
Some recommendations to highlight
Education, supervision, & parental controls/filters seem a more compelling solution. However, bring that up in regard to legislation to age-restrict social media & the tune at lemmy dramatically changes: seems inconsistent.
A lot of parents sadly lack any kinds of skills to use those tools nor even know that they exist. I'm not inherently against the approach where user agent sends some rough age (allowed R-rating or something) to the website which can then block minors from accessing porn/violence/whatever. If it was just that, locally stored info if the user is minor or adult, it could be a pretty decent approach to even technically less inclined parents to give some limits on what their kids can do.
But as with nearly every 'protect the kids' thing, it's a pretty damn slippery and steep slope. If adult verification requires something more than a local variable that's the point when the whole system becomes a tool for surveillance instead of a helpful thing for parents/schools and all of these "solutions" worldwide seems to be going in that direction.
As far as laws with potential to repress freedom of expression go, wouldn't public government programs or campaigns to train & educate parents be a less compromising way to meet such needs without raising issues of liberty, privacy, coercion?
If they actually worked, sure. I've been a parent for nearly 20 years now and at least in here there's always been some kind of programs, information campaingns, news articles, tools and pretty much everything you can imagine to help keeping your kids safe. You obviously don't buy porn magazines for your teens and don't show news from war zones to your young kids and keep eye on the movies/shows they watch, but somehow every precaution is lost when it comes to the internet. I don't know if it's lack of understanding in general (as in what you can find from the net) or if it's just the easy way out since you don't need to learn how to apply limits on devices, but somehow (at least in here, based on what I've seen/heard) it's not taken as seriously as PG-ratings on physical media.
And in that a system-wide setting on devices which would include allowed PG-rating on HTTP-headers (or equivalent) might be a decent solution. Obviously parents still need to pay at least some attention on the devices their kids use, but that wouldn't require setting up a pihole on your network which blocks tiktok. However, as I said, that's helpful tool to the parents only as long as it's just a field on a local user account for the device, not something you'd need online services to verify.
Technically that would be pretty easy to implement and even if it's just an extension to HTTP headers that would cover nearly all of the use cases today. Sure, the kids interested in tech could bypass that pretty easily, but that applies to nearly all of the parental controls anyways. But all those benefits obviously vanish if the age setting needs verification from someone else than the parent and it's not stored just locally in the device. Building systems for adults to verify their age in order to look some bare nipples is a colossally stupid idea, but I'd guess nearly all of us here on fediverse already understand that.
Not sure that part's absolutely necessary: if it's publicly promoted to the extent that parents don't have an excuse (eg, time, cost, access) other than low willpower/interest they are reasonably accountable for, then the public has fulfilled its duty to empower parents to direct the rearing of their children while protecting everyone's fundamental rights. However, I also think interested parents would popularly adopt voluntary solutions with enough public resources committed to promote & provide them in a major way. While the public expense may seem extra, I think the government's duty to protect fundamental rights justifies the expense.
Another comment mentions legislatively commissioned studies that suggest solutions similar to yours, but broader & less intrusive. Recommendations included
They also stressed the importance of adult involvement to provide child supervision & teach children internet safety, information literacy, & skills to evaluate inappropriate messages. If the government had pursued these recommendations (it didn't), I think it would have succeeded.
It's also worth noting those & newer studies found client-side filters more effective than age verification for a number of reasons.
Though Australia isn't the US, the US federal courts had an interesting opinion there: parents may always allow their children to access protected speech. Even with sex-related materials, the Supreme Court has stated
They regarded as constitutionally defective laws that impose a single standard of public morality. Instead, they'd allow laws that "support the right of parents to deal with the morals of their children as they see fit". Laws that take away parental control are also impermissible.
In another decision, they regard & defend parental responsibility & discretion in leaving access open to children.
So, according to them, presenting such content to children ought to be left up to their parents, and laws shouldn't infringe on their right to do that.
There are all kinds of laws regarding on how parents should treat their children and one might argue that keeping non-age appropriate material away from them is a reasonable line to draw into. For example in here with movies it's pretty common practice (depending on a theater) to allow kids to 'higher age bracket' PG-rating with a guardian.
But the whole problem, at least from my point of view, can't be solved only by either technological or legal barriers or solutions. Parenting is a tough job and from what I can see there's really not enough support for them to do the job. "It takes a village to raise a child" used to be pretty commonly understood approach where all individuals from school bus drivers and cashiers played their small part on educating kids on how to behave and how the world works. Today it's just rules and regulations which adults can use to hide behind and avoid taking any kind of responsibility and also, at least on some cases, the same rules say that you're not even allowed to intervene if kids are being kids and do something stupid.
Obviously a lot of things are better now too than even in the 80s and 90s when I was a stupid kid, but I'd say something is also lost on the way.
My objection is that its my operating system running on my computer
Not yours. MINE.
I can make its logic gates do anything I want, as long as it's not sending CP or malware over the Internet.
While I agree, I don't think the language "every operating system provider has to create" means it's installed if you don't want it. Parental control software exists for Linux, it's available from the package manager, and we can opt out of installing it.
I doubt "every operating system" is meant literally. Embedded OSs for specialized hardware (eg, routers, satellites, rockets, missiles, drones, calculators, industrial lasers) aren't typically meant for children to browse the web. If TempleOS supported networking, it might be in trouble. Viable legislation would probably be restricted to OSs designed to allow children to access content over the internet.
The main thrust of the suggestion is to prefer parental controls over age verification. Better ways to ensure availability of parental controls (like government services to provide the software free) fit that broad idea.
That stipulation doesn't need to be stated. It can be programmed to do anything, and that's fine. Laws already exist for illegal activity. Anyone who'd fuss the absence of that stipulation lacks credibility.
This might seem drastic but think of the great benefits to society! Such as…. uhm… uuuh. Hey! Look what I can do! 🤹
Privacy violations galore?
and users tapping out, completely. Build your libraries
My jedi powers sense and increase in VPN subscription sales.
but doesn't this just feel like the path to making those age gated or otherwise inaccessible?
LoL no...
Laws like this are trojan horses for draconian data collection policies and a failure of every other metric. The "Think of the children" people do not understand technology or how to enforce their own laws. Anyone with the impetus to get around the changes these laws mandate will do so with a google search and ~30 min. worth of effort regardless of age or ability to wave a credit card at something.
So dumb lol
This will only hurt people working in adult entertainment as it will train Australians to steal it all.
Western governments don't care about solving issues, only looking like they do.
Good grief. Who cares about porn?
Why not address government lobbying, for starters? Or how about the housing crisis/tax incentives that encourage wealth hoarding?
"We can't tackle government lobbying, the lobbyists bribed us not to."
Hold a photo of the PM up to the camera?
In the third world you see people selling VPN access in person at markets. At this point junior can probably just download it themselves, but at some point maybe that opens up as a career opportunity.
Prove my age?
No thanks
I think I'll just wait until this thing... blows over
[ funk guitar plays ]
Ooh, baby!
Do you like it when I slip into my VPN?
I refuse to believe lawmakers around the world are genuinely convinced you can prevent children from accessing porn
Sure not all children will be that tech savvy to circumvent the limits, but then they could access it like I was shown porn for the first time before breadband: a random kid during a school trip had a porn video saved on his phone. Only a few phones had video capabilities at the time, now it's commonplace.
So yeah I will never believe the good will of such bills
They all suddenly cared at the same time too, at around the same time every country started a massive push for fascism.
If the porn sites just block the country from connecting with a notice as to why, will that piss people off enough to force them to change the law?
After a brief Internet search, I have found that no country or state has entirely pulled out after going all in on age verification. Most of them back out before even starting. So things don’t look very good for Australia.
Pornhub does this in several US states. When you try to connect you get a message about why it's blocked in your state. So far I don't know of any state that has changed the law back.
Like they do for Texas and Utah and I'm sure a few other states.
I wanna bet the rich will have some shell companies and lobby so they can anonymously access porn trough those.
now all curious and unsurveilled teens can only watch porn on the darkweb
Where the good stuff is
Guys, guys! Relax!
Australia's brilliant leaders aren't stupid* !
Of course, when they finally get told that these magical things called VPNs can bypass the requirements, they'll just ban VPNs!
^*majority^ ^not^ ^included^
Let's all rub one out for our fallen brothers...
I wonder how fediverse instances are supposed to handle this.
So what about Reddit and Lemmy's nsfw parts? Will they so need age verification for the apps now too, even if you don't access any of them?
VPN subscriptions are going to skyrocket
Everything is an addiction to those with no self control. Don't project your issues onto the rest of us.
We absolutely could live in that world, but we're never gonna get there if people like you continue to pass the buck to others who should not at all be tasked with being responsible for other people's children—particularly not corporations run by billionaires who have been raping or facilitating the rape of children for decades.
porn addiction isn't real
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201808/science-stopped-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too
No, sweetie, it's actually a great article that's devastating to your claims.
porn addiction is not real, if someone’s porn consumption is such that it is disruptive of their daily lives then they likely have some sort of underlying psychological issue, but the same can be said of anything, including exercise for example
Porn addiction isn't a real thing, sparky.
In other words, you don't understand what addiction is or how it works, kiddo. The simple fact is that psychology has dismissed the notion of "porn addiction" as unscientific. If you don't like that, tough.