Macron urges Europe to start acting like world power
French President Emmanuel Macron has urged Europe to assert itself on the world stage, saying it is time to start acting like a "power".
In the face of growing threats from China, Russia and now the US, he told a group of European newspapers that the continent faced a "wake-up call".
"Are we ready to become a power? This is the question in the field of economy and finance, in defence and security, and in our democratic systems.
"In another era we might have said it is the moment to 'assume our majority'," he said ahead of an EU summit in Brussels later this week.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8n1zdnpd3oOpen linkView original on lemmy.world579
Comments89
Indeed we should. So long as this doesn't mean that we move towards being isolationists, imperialists or Nazi's.
You guys do have a bit of a habit with those things…
The first thing a Global Power Europe does is invade and colonize North Africa.
Again?
I need to rewatch that show
What show is that?
Found it- Arrested Development.
Rome 2, this time they have nukes
Rome 2 was the Holy Roman Empire. supposedly.
Europe never stopped being Rome.
I mean if you disregard everything except geography sure.
Rome 4 now
Does Europe have any power? If yes, then Ukraine is the perfect place to demonstrate it. Imagine how powerful 1 million artillery shells per month would look. A hundred tanks and planes per month would look powerful too. Thousand missiles per month might send the powerful message too.
Talking and urging isn't powerful.
I think the better way is a federation but not for everything. Only for diplomacy, defense and little more. At least as a first step. That way there's no possibility of having an uberpressident that can do the same Trump is doing.
Essentially, united on foreign policy but not domestic (barring stuff like human rights)? Superficially it seems sensible enough.
I'm not against talking. I just point out that it is a shame that most activities are limited to talking.
The EU is comprised of sovereign entities, but those entities have chosen to give up certain competencies to the Union for various benefits. The EU already handles trade diplomacy and monetary policy through democratic institutions; it isn't that hard to imagine that could also take on competencies related to defense.
The EU also could share the competency of defense with the various nations. After all, there are other countries which have sub national entities that have their own militaries.
10000000 Nukes would be even more powerful.
Nukes are more cute than useful.
Hydrogen bombs are very useful to obliterate Moscow. The largest population concentrations of Russians/Gopniks.
You can't obliterate gopnicks with cuteness. You can do that with classical explosives bombs though.
Western civilization needs to be preserved! Build Russian democracy to the western standards. Treat them conventionally like Gaza Hamas Terrorists.
Ok prove it by stopping Russia from slaughtering your own fucking neighbor
Thats what they have been doing for years now. The EU is the main source of equipment and funding for Ukraine.
That is simply false and America has been providing the majority of the funding until Trump took office only 1 year ago
Yeah no. Not just recently but also overall the EU is the main source of funding for Ukraine. Going into the future this will just become more and more one sided. It was closely matched, but even before Trump took office the EU was leading.
https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker
I do not like Europe representated with a colour different than blue.
Yeah seems really inverted to me
From the same source indicating until Trump America was the lead supporter. Not sure why there’s different data presentation
https://www.kielinstitut.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-fails-to-offset-us-aid-drop/
Thats the same plot but formatted as "stacked". So in this plot it is also even before 2025. Just admit that you were wrong and fuck off already. It doesnt even matter anyways because my original comment talked about "IS" not "WAS". And it IS overall the main contributor and by a huge margin.
But were are they going to buy cheap gas?
Explanation: France is one of the biggest importer of Russian gas in EU, right after Putin allies Hungary and Slovakia.
Algeria.
do we have pipes from there yet?
There are already puppies from Algeria to Spain.
The rest of Europe is circling Ukraine like a wake of vultures
Nonsense comment
That means cutting ties with Israel and the Zionist oligarchs trying to implement mass surveillance. They don’t seem to understand that basic reality though because they keep trying to force the digital ID through Zionist Larry Ellisons company Oracle onto their populace.
Wtf has zionism to do with mass surveillance outside of Palestine?
They're the most successful Fascists at the moment and in parts of Europe have massive influence because they're often supported by those amongst the power-hungry rich people who happen to be Jewish. This helps further normalized the tools of Autoritarianism in the countries were they have influence.
(For avoidance of doubt I'm not saying "Rich = Jewish, I'm saying "Very Rich Jewish = Very Rich Non-Jewish = Fascist Supporting")
Mind you, I myself think Neoliberals are far more guilty of pushing for the implementation of tools of Authoritarianism in Europe than Zionists, mainly because Neoliberalism is an anti-Democracy ideology (it desires that the State - which is what is controlled by the voters - does not exerce its power in those domains that matter the most for Money - the neolibs call it "interfere in the Market" - i.e. for that which the vote controls to be a power second to Money, or in other words, make the power of voters secondary, the opposite of Democracy).
Whilst Propaganda is the primary Neoliberal tool of control, Surveilance is the second one and Force Disguised As Fair and Legitimate (i.e. as "Justice") is next, which is how we end up with Chat-Control, insanelly overbroad Anti-Terrorism Legislation and Anti-Demonstration Legislation.
But yeah, there is reason to believe that the influence of Zionism in Europe mainly via the subset of the Jewish People here who are pro-Fascism, has probably helped a bit the expansion of authoritarianism in Europe.
antisemitischer wahn
Sure mate, some "ethnicities" are special and different from other people hence none of the rich people of those etnicities are Fascists.
Also your expectation that they're different from the rest of mankind and couldn't possibly have Fascists in their midst hence anybody that claims they do must be against their race, ain't at all you revealing yourself as Prejudiced and Racist.
antisemitischer wahn
Long past time. United we stand, divided we fall.
No. They are not ready. If all your computers and phones "phone home" with "home" being your adversary's country (that's how USA deals with Europe in the last year), then you cannot call yourself a world power. Most PCs in Europe use Windows and MacOS. Almost all phones are either Android or iOS. And even if they managed to replace all the software with locally developed Linux, all recent (last 20 years) x86 PCs have either Intel Management Engine or AMD Security Technology. If they chose to make intensive efforts to replace their systems, computers and phones, it would take at least a decade to achieve this. And even then, the US would likely be able to penetrate their systems. It's so much easier to yield to the Emperor of the Western World for the perennially submissive European serfs.
RISC-V ftw!
It's being looked at.
https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/eu-launches-nanoic-pilot-line-to-oversee-development-of-sub-2nm-chips-on-the-continent/
And nearly all US computer hardware is manufactured in China. What's your point?
I think there is a bit more than digital independence involved. Europe could definitely be a world power if we stopped trying to appease everyone.
I know how much the French hate Macron (with good reasons), but you can't really argue against these points. Some things gotta happen. Federilization, another voting system etc. Otherwise EU will be undermined and destroyed by the superpowers and become a lot of small versailstates. We cant find in this world, when bound on hands and feet by a few orbans here and there..
I'd much rather see Europe rule the world than the US.
He's right.
They need to focus on making every European nation a nuclear power. You can't trust the US when we're on our second consecutive brain-damaged president in a row.
Yeah, what a fantastic idea: let's give the Orban's and the Meloni's of Europe (stable geniuses one and all) things that go boom and make a nice mushroom cloud.
Fantastic.
We already have two nuclear powers in Europe.
The power of nuclear weapons comes from being used in a retaliation strike. For that a submarine is needed. Soon space weapons are needed to disable the counter-measures.
Just 10 bombs and 10 bombers is not enough.
would you give hungary the bomb?
Under which conditions? That they have submarines?
I wanted to reply this to @[email protected], sorry
Problem is - if you look at how "World Powers" behave, do you really wanna live in such countries?
Which Europeans would just love to invade neighbors like Russia and USA?
Which Europeans would love to deregulate their countries in order to enrich elites like USA?
Or perhaps which Europeans would love to live under state surveillance while their country buys out foreign infrastructure like China?
I really like Macron in his foreign policy mode, it just a shame he pissed the bed by opening a loophole that will be abused if ever an amoral president gets in power.
You mean next year?
It's less about being a power. The British Empire was "A Power". The US is "A Power". Russia has been "A Power" and wants people to think it still is. China is "A Power".
Unless you use it to the benefit of the people, it's just posturing.
As long as it's not France's idea of being a power... I have no interest in colonialism.
Yeah i truly dont like how France treats colonies. Like that one time they helped some colonist to get free from the british and now we have to deal with USA and its bullshit.
EU leaders are waking up slowly. When they finally wake up and start acting Ukraine will be part of Russia and Greenland part of US.
Can we put him in VdL’s place once he is done in France? He would make a great President of Europe.
How do you determine he'd make a great president? What great things has he achieved as president of France?
He's perceived well internationally but loathed at home
Is he perceived well? In my region he is perceived as a bla-bla-bla man(including bla-bla-bla with Putin when nobody asked for it).
Can’t really please French people if they want a president that lowers the retirement age to 45 and doubles everyones vacation days each year.
Obvious /s in case that’s not apparent. Unironically, this is how french politics is often portrayed in Swiss media though.
Those are good goals tho
Not disputing that. I’d love to live in such a place.
He's proven effective at overseeing a stalemate, so he'd be within his element at the EU.
He's also a good diplomat.
I lived in Strasbourg during the 2018 Christmas terrorist attack. French gendarmerie kicked ass. Europe needs a standing army. Go build one.
More than a standing army, it needs to act united and decisively. More power for the Euro parliament and leadership that can take charge of crisis situations without having to negotiate with every single member state.
They're going wild recently. (French news)
https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/051125/faut-leur-tirer-dans-la-gueule-la-manifestation-de-sainte-soline-vue-par-les-gendarmes
World powers don't let shadow fleets sabotage their infrastructure without receiving a declaration of war in return.
I'd for the longest time wondered why Europe has been so complacent in letting the US dominate the geopolitical agenda. Could it be by letting the US overspend on military, EU can instead invest in better living standards for themselves & mooch off US military support through NATO if the need ever arises?
Don't know what you mean, but they did join the US in Afghanistan & Iraq through NATO by again complacently following the US into whatever.
I honestly think it's laziness.
Europeans still appreciate just living life with their families.
Americans are out for world domination in the name of their oligarchs.
Yeah, so, here's the thing. Wanting to live life with your family is not lazy. Not having a desire for world domination is not lazy. Those are just normal things that regular people do.
Why is China always perceived as a threat?
Not all threats are military. China is the economic threat but it also has military might.
EDIT: From the article.
China may not be perceived as a military threat, but it is credibly an economic threat. China is returning to a state where Europe has difficulty conducting trade with China as China will only accept natural resources for trade. That can be dangerous for an economy with a large safety net, declining productivity, and little in terms of natural resources.
Because they like imperialism. All the imperialistic superpowers are a threat to humanity.
They are a threat to Europe's manufacturing/industrial sectors. In the US, China carries out propaganda/destabilization campaigns; not sure if they do much of that in Europe... Looks like China is involved with AfD (several AfD members have been arrested for espionage), so they are probably trying to destabilize Europe too.
Because it's an authoritarian state, and history teaches us how those end up behaving, sooner or later.
They're wealthy, but not white
The real answer.
Translation: "We should increase spending on military equipment so that later we can become fascist and hand it all off to an authoritarian regime to use. We should do this instead of fixing any actual problems, because addressing the root cause of those problems would mean acknowledging that those problems are caused by the ruling class, who own and control 'democracy'."