U.S. Dealers In Full Panic Mode After Canada Green-Lights Chinese Cars
https://www.thedrive.com/news/u-s-dealers-in-full-panic-mode-after-canada-green-lights-chinese-carsOpen linkView original on discuss.online603
Comments133https://www.thedrive.com/news/u-s-dealers-in-full-panic-mode-after-canada-green-lights-chinese-carsOpen linkView original on discuss.online
Good. Eat shit.
You guys had your chance. Instead you shoved giant fucking trucks and SUVs down our throats while telling us we didn't want good, small, electric cars. I hope you all choke to death.
I... I was trying to disagree. But you're making it damn difficult.
Maybe they can eat a dick.
No, don’t reward bad behavior. They can eat Trumps unwashed asshole.
As an American...
Say it louder for those in the back.
sadly, "too big to fail, lets bail em out on public $"
Good. It'll just hasten the collapse.
China's got an overcapacity of affordable cars people want, and the US will have an overcapacity of unaffordable cars nobody wants, and we can see which is the better problem to have.
Unfortunately, the US's cars will become write-offs for the companies, the rich will suffer nothing, and they'll become rusting landfill waste like Atari 2600 copies of ET.
Government subsidized is not the same thing as affordable. As soon as they are embedded, prices will go up.
Just look at Korean manufacturers in US. Some Hyundais/Kias are more expensive than Toyotas. They used to be a great cheap alternative.
Difference is Koreans actually build high quality cars and Chinese build quality is debatable.
I have to say though, the faster Tesla fucking burns, the better. Nazi trash can go fuck himself.
https://www.business-standard.com/companies/news/byd-ev-sales-profit-decline-cash-burn-2025-china-125110300804_1.html
If the Kias I've driven are any indication... No they don't.
You also do realize that the Chinese make good stuff too right? It's not just the random brands you see on Temu and Amazon. It's the same brands you recognize already. Every Apple device for the past 25+ years is Chinese. Every component, every step of manufacturing, every human touch along the way. They're only designed in California.
China just has an excess of manufacturing capability, because they make everything for everyone. Hell, a lot of "counterfeit" and "knock-off" merchandise rolled off the same exact factory line as the name brand. The factories continue running manufacturing lines after hours to produce excess that gets sold on the grey market, and they also send the stuff that fails quality testing to the grey market.
Manufacturing engineer here, can confirm. China has successfully replicated the success Japan enjoyed a generation ago.
Americans don't be jealous; more great centers of manufacturing is a win for everybody. This is why we can have nice things! If it still bothers you... git gud lol
They manufacture so much because it's cheap to manufacture there and that comes at some costs like putting very little value on people and their labor.
Also, designed in California means more than you think for established brands that have to follow American or, usually stricter, California laws.
Labor cost is a part of course.... But the bigger thing is that the entire manufacturing process from near-raw materials, through individual component manufacturing, and final product assembly are all located within just a few miles of each other. Things aren't being shipped across the country multiple times through the process. When manufacturing transportation cost is essentially zero, there is a lot of inherent cost and time savings.
I think the bigger things are the nearly slave labor and the temporary government subsidies and the general manufacturing capability and the jobs.
That said, I sure would like cheap, ubiquitous electric vehicles.
Then we should have prioritized worker treatment in our trade deals. We naturally didn't because we not only place no value on workers or their labor, but were also willing to forfeit the race to the bottom.
We don't value THEIR workers or THEIR labor either. We value cheap products with many features. That was basically my point from the beginning.
It isn't. Of course established brands make quality stuff; their brand depends on it. It's the US/Canada/Europe level of qa expectation and local laws that are driving the quality.
And cars are not only expensive as fuck, but also are an absolute necessity in most of US/Canada. I wouldn't blame anyone for getting a fully loaded $30k brand new electric car over a similarly priced "budget" Kia. Might as well take advantage of the fact that China is subsidizing the other $20k.
There's almost nothing that can break in an electric car over typical lease period, but I wouldn't want to keep it past the warranty or get into a serious accident in it.
BYDs are awesome. You’ll see.
Also, with China being an evil horrible dictatorship, this definitely isn't a moral upgrade either.
The U.S has no moral high ground to stand on here, especially under current leadership.
What you don't want an EV hummer for 200k USD or whatever tf they charge for vehicles these days?
Its not bad for consumers.
It's only bad for the country because it's owned by the corporations.
It is bad for greedy corporations.
Begins now, the war on greed.
It's bad for the country to lose all manufacturing capability.
Arguably could be better to have access to slave labor, cheap, green cars though.
Blame 50+ years of companies outsourcing everything and closing on-shore production with the single goal of increasing short-term shareholder value at the exclusion of every other consideration (even ignoring harm to the long term survival of the business itself).
It's not exactly "the country" that did this, it's wall street specifically and the people who kowtow to its demands.
Fuck off you Yankee cunts. Go fuck yourself through both ears with a rusty chainsaw.
"Caved"!? You mean "are purchasing higher quality vehicles for lower prices" means "caving" these days?
Seriously. Fuck all the way off.
I’m trying, but my government keeps moving the goalposts on how far I need to fuck off. It’s beginning to get exhausting.
I’m afraid it will have to be a lot more fucking off…..Until he’s impeached, convicted and removed from power and the entire administration prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned for their crimes. SCROTUS expanded DHS abolished, ICE disbanded. Billionaires wealth redistributed. Reparations made for slavery though a truth and reconciliation process. Trans, Black, brown people, immigrants and queer people reintegrated and welcomed loudly back into society. And the US stops funding Palestine genocide. THAT’s when you can stop fucking off. So, it will be awhile.
Nope. Still wouldn’t trust them even if they did all this. We have seen how quick this happened. It could happen again. Why: The fact it’s being tolerated, and it’s unlikely change will occur. They will just try and reverse a bit. Greed killed America
It takes hundreds of years to grow a forest, and just one match to burn it down.
Exactly this here.
The problem is not Trump. The problem has never been Trump. Trump is a symptom of the problem. The problem is a social rot that has been going on for all of my life (well over half a century). All y'all done fucked up your whole society and that problem will remain long after the current coterie is gone.
I will never trust the USA again. Nor will anybody else who was alive to watch that country turn to open Nazis over the course of two elections. We now know what's lurking within the USA, and how large it is, and how much power it has. We can't unsee this. It will be generations before anybody but the stupid trusts Americans.
And the system fixed so all this can't happen again.
Apparently "capitalism" and "market pressure" only work when it's in the USA's favour? The USA should be proud of Canada for acting exactly like capitalists! They are opening the market and letting the best suited and best priced item win. Isn't that the whole point of the system?
Arm go Up. Line Go Down.
The car dealer lobby can go fuck themselves. How much cheaper would cars be already with no middle man using high pressure sales tactics
Not to mention the lobbying against robust transit options, and for car-centric city design. The personal automobile is marketed as freedom but in reality it is an expensive infrastructure ball & chain
Yeah Tesla and Rivian skipped the dealership model, but their pricing isn't any lower. Arguably higher, especially long term when you include repair costs.
Tesla also runs much higher margins than competitors. They could be cheaper, but they choose not to be.
After a quick search...
Ford's gross margins are about 8%.
GM is about 7%.
Kia is about 8%.
Toyota is about 9%.
Tesla is around 25-30%.
Rivian is around 2% it looks like (but they also build the Amazon fleet, which seems to not be included in the numbers I could find quickly).
Note that the legacy auto numbers are what the main company profits, not dealerships. The newer companies can pocket that directly.
A primary reason is newer companies like Tesla and Rivian are still building their manufacturing capabilities. That additional profit is going towards that expansion.
Tesla's margins are nowhere near 30%. They technically were there for like a single quarter. Even without all the insane accounting tricks they use, they're around 10% now, and it's likely that's a lie.
You're right, that was from a few years ago...
Their gross margin was 20%, up from 16% last year, and automotive margins actually increased from 15% to 18%.
https://www.investing.com/news/transcripts/earnings-call-transcript-tesla-q4-2025-sees-earnings-beat-stock-dips-93CH-4480867
Well. In Germany we say "Der Markt regelt das". Translated: economy speaks for itself. <- Ironically spoken
Like it or Not. China made it. They will also flood Europe/EU soon. I'm not mad, when they can, they should. This is our beloved capitalism.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn't listen and still don't.
Edit: Added "<- Ironically spoken" to first sentence to make clear how I was meaning it.
Being an Asian having grown up in Europe, I can say that Westerners have a short term, profiteering mindset. We think too much if the earnings for the next quarter will keep the shareholders happy. There is no long term planning and vision. I find Western businesses afraid of leaving their initial core industry, even if that industry is going the way of the dodos like fossil fuel cars.
I can't exactly assess Chinese industries much, but Japanese businesses are excellent and unafraid with diversifying away from their initial offerings, and reaching out to a completely separate field. Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing. Western companies don't really do this, but instead waste money by fighting tooth and nail to keep dying businesses alive. Western companies are obsessed with making money now, while East Asian companies prioritise existence.
And they miss obvious things too. How did Sears, a company that became famous and hide by offering magazines to show the cost of their goods to everyone before that was a thing, lose to an online bookstore? How did a video rental place (Blockbuster) not see the obvious benefit of mailing DVDs and then later internet streaming and get beat by a no name company like netflix?
Probably exactly as you say. It would have cost a year or two of missed quarterly earnings as they entered new markets, so they missed the opportunities entirely.
That one baffles me. They were doing catalog based mail order since the start of their business.
They should have been in the perfect position to compete with what Amazon has become. They already had all the infrastructure in place. All they needed was a decent website version of their existing catalog with a simple ordering method, and they utterly failed at that.
They had online ordering years before amazon was even a thought, but the high ups canned it saying that the internet was just a passing fad. They put themselfs out of business while saying they knew better then the customer the whole while.
Like most successful companies of the past, they were bought by a hedge fund or real estate fund and milked for any cash before assets were disposed. There are plenty more big name companies about to die because their business is no longer the product they made, it is only return for shareholder.
Hitachi makes consumer electronics and heavy industrial construction machinery.
But somehow Ford can only make F150s and Mustangs any more...
Ford Aerospace was a division of Ford in the 1950s-1970s that made missiles and satellites. Look at the backgrounds of the corporate leadership, the 4th generation Fords have most of the votes. The CEO's background is in sales and marketing.
Mitsubishi is another heavy weight.
Don’t forget the worlds most famous “massager”!
That We is pulling a lot of weight and i'd mostly translate it as C-suits and management.
The Zaibatsu model has different incentives, particularly when they're jockeying for position with American internationals on their own turf.
They're very good at undercutting American industry. But I'd consider the Japanese cartel model flawed in other ways - miserable places to actually work for, agonizingly patriarchal, debilitating drinking/drug culture, zero work life balance, and the pay is shit.
That is true. But I mean branching out is something that Western companies should not be afraid of. EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
Although, to several Western company's credit, they do branch out. Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels. The state-backed Danish company, Orsted, completely got rid of their fossil fuel mix, and transitioned 100% to renewable. But Trump cancelling their projects in US East Coast ruined their short term profitability. In any case, Orsted is firm with their full transition to renewable energy.
When you see reports come out from fossil fuel companies, they quite literally describe "$X trillion of hydrocarbons in the ground".
Europe only really has the Baltic as a reserve. They've been cut off from much of the Middle East by decades of war.
So, unlike the US, which has become an oil exporter for the last twenty years, Europeans either went woke or went broke.
Those fossil fuel companies are trying to invoke the greed in us, but for most people it's not really working with respect to climate change. I won't consider myself an optimist, bu the fact that renewable energy and EVs are growing says that people really do care.
In theory, the "invisible hand of free market" ought to pick out the most innovative and profitable companies, while those who refuse to keep up with the times vanish. But in practice, the legacy companies, despite their business model becoming obsolete, don't want to go away quietly. They spend money to spread misinformation to put down cutting edge technologies and business models, despite growing market demand like green technology.
Even if fossil fuels still has some value, is it really worth it in the long run to extract them and cause mass extinction? Who will be the customers when society collapse? As someone asked before, "what if we improved society for nothing?"
Yamaha: Pianos through to dirtbikes
It's the result of their mythical beginnings. Creatures made out of mud, while you Asians are descendants of the dragon god. Or something. I dunno I am just a random person on the internet
That's sort of the joke. We are living in the IRL equivalent of people complaining Communism is OP in Victoria 3.
"What do you mean you're leveraging a highly efficient network of state owned enterprises to obtain materials and utilities nearly at-cost?! That's cheating!!!"
China has ten highly productive and innovative EV companies in a bloody knuckled price war because it's state government makes starting and growing auto plants artificially cheap and easy.
Personally I prefer Communism in Victoria 2 or Peasant republics in EU5. Let me flood the market with cheap cloth then shut it down and tank the entire worlds capacity to build units.
That's called mercantilism and not communism.
The funny thing is the "True" Americans think a capitalism free market is absolute peak. They say well if it was a TRUE capitalism free market it would be perfect. Its because of the state we have issues! No you idiot, its because of billionaires which capitalism by design creates.
They say this while using government to prevent import of superior vehicles, just like they did for Japan in the 90s (chicken tax anyone?)
Socialism for the rich. Rugged individual capitalism for the 99%.
This is amazing
In a thought experiment where they didn't, the auto market would be healthier.
In another thought experiment where Japanese electronic and software industry didn't become monopolized due to similar state involvement, it could have kept positions.
So yes, free market is good, except free market is a situation that can't be created by free market alone. You can't keep free market having only free market. It's not a magic spell that makes any heap of stuff to suddenly reorganize into something working by itself. It's a philosophy of protections, where competition should be maintained and all kinds of pressure and coercion should be minimized.
Those protections have to be made for free market to exist. And that's the thing, they are very hard to make and require, quoting Harry Potter, constant vigilance.
The problem is China subsidizing their cars to suffocate the European manufacturers. When all the European manufactures are closed or sold to China, you'll see the real prices.
EDIT: Also, soon? They are already here.
Why wouldn't they?
After decades of being the west's factory they'd be stupid not to learn.
And better is just upping the QA more than their western customers (who want the cheapest possible 'cos line must go up).
Better is a whole lot more than "upping the QA". The cars here are genuinely innovative and, more importantly, the logistical and fabrication techniques are innovative.
One of the major reasons the big name Chinese EVs are cheaper than their roughly equivalent western counterparts is because the companies are vertical, not horizontal, in their supply chain.
Yes. I'm aware that they subsidize the shit out of a lot of stuff. They saw the chance and took it. Of course, I'd like to see European cars, as that also means workplaces and plus for our economy.
For a greater time we already compete a lot with Japanese and Korean cars - I mean they build good cars. But in the end it seems more fair. And for what I know is that they also do very good options on the EV market - but will hardly compete with BYD or Xiaomi vehicles.
Yes. They're subsidizing so hard that the EVs are dirt-cheap HERE. You know, all those companies running at a loss to sell ... domestically ... while somehow ... innovating.
Compassionate fucking Buddha this endless whining about "subsidies" gets tiresome after a while. Grow the fuck up you idiots and leave the kiddie pool.
There's another word - mercantilism.
No, they shouldn't, but it'll be the same thing that US tech companies did, more or less.
I think the environment, in terms of IP and patents and running a company, should be made easier in the EU, otherwise there will be no domestic competition. Unfortunately those seem to only become stricter over time.
For China mercantilism works, because of enormous size of their own market, and pretty strong competition inside it with lax rules.
Not a fan of this sentence. Market doesn't care about human sensitivities, not one bit.
Which one exactly?
Der Markt regelt das. No it doesn't. Not without enforced regulation.
Absolutely. I'm sorry. I did not make clear that I meant it ironically.
LOL you should see the protectionist rules, tariffs and support for EU/US manufacturers.
That is not 'the market' or capitalism.
They couldn't compete in an equal field anyway.
Energy costs are too high due to the energy sanctions on ourselves and China has surpassed everyone in tech.
Also it would take too long to invest in education, RnD, infrastructure and get results.
All these unfair rules are the last resort of a failed and outclassed economy.
Greed, lack of standards and sub-standard vehicles finally caught up with them.
They've been so busy downsizing their workforce, they forgot how to make a car under $40k
Government bailout then?
At some point there's going to be one too many bailouts and nobody will want to keep holding the bag that is USD.
I booked a hostel for August in Iceland this past September. They didn't actually take my money until the end of January. The USD price went up like $60.
Yes, it's bad for you. Selling new cars for over 60K on average has been very good for you.
lol if the US dealer system is part of what dies in this era of shit that we’re in, I’m calling that as a fucking HUGE silver lining.
I thought Tesla was going to change things a little bit but it turns out they were only interested in fucking kids
I’ve driven electric for over a decade. Never had a Tesla. So many people do not understand that’s possible.
Obviously a lot of us here don't like Tesla for good reason, but you're wrong on this front. They did a lot of lobbying in like every state to try and remove restrictions on car companies needing to sell through dealerships. They did a lot of good in that singular aspect.
Maybe American autodealers should've made cheaper cars and not relied on monopoly-like status and government protections manipulating the market.
Also, maybe American's shouldn't have been such cunts to their neighbours. I mean, they throw a big Trump diaper at Canada and Mexico, start demanding all the car companies shut down plants and shit, wtf did they expect Canada and Mexico to do exactly?
The dealership system is garbage. Let the battle begin.
Say what you will, but I'll take BYD over Tesla any day.
My "fear" with the Tesla system is customer service after the sale. Usually a local dealer will have to consider repeat sale and after-market service and repair. Building a good customer relation is key to that. Alternative is am anonymous underpaid call center "drone" in another country or dead email drops that never gets answered. Or worse some kind of AI chat feature on a glossy professional web page.
My issue with all electric cars is the development rate and the risk of platforms not being supported for an extended time. How long will software be serviced? Right now I do not dare own an electric car older than five years as there are so many bugs due to rushed development
Shitty dealerships thrive, what are you talking about? They don't give a fuck about customer relationship, they just say that in their radio commercials.
Local dealers dont give a fuck about repeat sales. They are a monopoly. Many own several dealerships in the region, so even going to the next town... congrats, you just bought from the same person.
And customer service? Lmfao. They just do the bare minimum. God fordbid you try to get a warranty fix. They'll do everything to avoid fixing the problem.
and dealerships change hands every [x] years so they really don't care about repeat sales. new name on the big sign at the auto mall every five years out here
The US has laws saying vehicle manufacturers have to produce parts to service the cars for x number of years, or something like that. We just put in some new law that covers EVs similarly.
There's definitely an issue in Canada regarding Chinese expats/immigrants and their organized influence in Canada.
Good. No one should buy American trash.
its also overpriced, and the handles trying temulate tesla is a very big turnoff, as well as a safety issues.
I don't disagree about our cars being overpriced, so fair point there.
I used to own a Tesla Model 3 (I got rid of it for reasons you can probably guess), though, and the one thing everyone - including me at the time - universally disliked was the handles, inside and out. For the outside half, there were several times I struggled to get in during cold weather. For the inside I never had a problem with them but I understand how they could be difficult (my wife printed stickers to make ours more clear).
I know the outside ones are supposedly more aerodynamic; neither are as bad as how some people represent them ... But everyone hated them.
I suspect you were trying to troll, in which case I almost want to apologize for interfering but can't bring myself to, but if you're being earnest I feel I should offer some input.
The lack of purely mechanical interior handles in the back seat is the most egregious offense. Sure, technically they exist but 95% of Tesla owners probably aren't aware.
For context, there are easily accessible (though sort-of hidden) handles in the front, but in the back they're steel cables underneath the liner in the door pockets. Back seat passengers just burn in a fire I guess.
FAFO fascism is wack idiots
LOL...bad for consumers? Really....evolution has never been about survival of the fittest...
Fuck car dealers. The entire dealer system has spent most of a century earning worse than this.
Why are dealers complaining? Could they not simply deal those Chinese EVs?
I'd expect US automakers to complain, but unrightfully so, because their products are inferior.
A- 10,000 dollar car
B- 50,000 dollar car
Intrest is 5-15% (depending on credit score)
6 years loan
Interest paid over loan:
5% A- $1,595 B- $7,977
15% A- $5,224 B- $26,122
If the dealership sells a 50k car they can get 6.5k-21k more money than if they sell a 10k car.
They want to sell you the most expensive car they can
So even if they could sell you the "cheap" Chinese EVs they would make less profit
This is just one reason. Sales margin is another. When you're a Ford dealership and get special treatment from Ford you have higher profit margins. If you just flip a Chinese EV with no special treatment you have lower margins.
If there was a solid 10k car available less people would buy the 50k car (average cost of a new car today)
Inexpensive cars on the US market is not good for dealerships in anyway
dealerships are too scummy and a little racist to POC potential buyers to be allowed to exist anyways, i dont think anyone would lose any sleep if they were to disappear suddenly.
One word: tariffs. Sure, they could theoretically still sell Chinese EVs, but with the tariff nonsense the buyer would have to pay more.
then Chinese EVs coming to the US wouldnt be an issue anyways.
It took me an embarrassing number of seconds to realize this headline was talking about car dealers.
It’s so few cars that it won’t make a difference.
They’re also tariffed to not offer a discount.
Yeah, this headline is wishful thinking.
Maybe it’s purpose is to make Canadians content with nothing.
Senator Bernie Moreno is a car dealer. It's weird to open the article with his position on this and not mention that.
Oh, fuck yeah
European fllet and personal buyers are starting to turn away from US cars. Not impressively, but a little.
A rock slide starts with just but a pebble.
Europeans are purchasing American cars? Why? We aren’t even purchasing American cars in the US.
Because maga stupidity is spreading. Here's a big fuckin stupid American truck in Norway, it can barely fit down the fuckin roads in Lofoten but sure enough, dipshits need to stroke their ego with their oversized gender affirming trucks.
When you have a small pp you have to find ways to compensate.
It's just muscle cars and trucks. We don't get any American "cars" for sale here anymore. Though I'm not sure if any American companies still make cars anyway. What I mean is we don't really get the small or medium sized crossovers other than some Jeep models, we only get the really big ones (Escalade, pick up trucks, usually imported by low-volume specialty dealers), or muscle cars. Because for the boring crap we have better options available locally and it's not like the US makes any non-boring vehicles of normal size anymore.
As for why... Yeah, other than some enthusiasts who just like American cars and therefore get a Mustang or Hellcat, it's mostly just assholes with pick up trucks who want to be seen and heard.
I have seen one or two gigantic American pick up trucks used for actual work, but that's about it. Normally the beds are empty and they're driving on paved roads.
Oh yeah and Tesla has been the exception to the rule for quite a while (non-huge American vehicles actually being bought here), but nowadays I'm not sure what their sales are like. I for one have lost any remaining interest in them and I was already considering German EVs to be a better deal 5 or 6 years ago, now there's the Chinese and Sinoswedish options to consider as well.
This means American automakers will learn their lesson and focus on quality, consumer focused products. Right? Right?!
Narrator: They did not. The enshitification continued. Regulations barring imports were passed and Americans paid for it with their lives and livelihoods.
Yessssss
Sucks it's China doing this. Wish it were Dacia
Ahahahaha fuck you USA. 🖕🖕🖕
I hope Aptera and Telo aren't hurt too bad by this.
They can cry about it, I also don't think it will upend socity as quick as they imagine
*Stealers
Seize the factories in Ontario and make a national daily driver EV!
Isn't that just trading one evil country for two evil countries, the newest of which being even more evil?
No way in hell China is more evil than America. They're plenty evil, but nothing China has done in recent history was as evil as the War on Terror, and don't even get me started on Israel.
China is:
It's easily, easily, eeeeaaaasiiiilllllyyy, way more evil and destructive than the USA, and holds way more puppet states around the world as well.
You don't get it, but you're not stupid so please listen. Still, with all your points, China is still the lesser evil. Please let that sink in. China is way less aggressive in its role as world police. US keeps positioning itself as the only good country in the world, having act world police all over, without mandate or collaboration from others. US politicians are getting high on their own Hollywood movie drugs. US is still threatening to invade a NATO ally, which is far worse. There's absolutely no real reason for that, regardless of what the current US dictator will have you believe! Next, digital sovereignty is where US is also the more evil than China, because at least China is not fucking every single consumer behind a cloak of fake privacy and security. China does its fucking in daylight and that makes it less of a problem because it's visible.
Nobody is really allies with Chins, or Russia for that matter, but they somehow are the lesser evil.
US is heading into an abyss, and corporate greed is at the steering wheel. Good luck with all the corruption at the top and downwards!
Listen, for all the bad things you can say specifically about the Trump admin, try to keep in mind that Trump won in part because he was favored by the Chinese and promoted on TikTok leading to the largest shift towards conservativism ever recorded in youth voters.
You really made my point for me by talking about NATO, something China and Russia heavily oppose, being a deterrent to war while China has no "real" allies. Except for Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Indonesia, etc. You know, theres something of a trend with all of those nations, can you name what it is? The most democratic country in that list is Indonesia and it still routinely elects members of the family of the previous dictator from before 1998, under whose rule featured multiple occupations, genocides, and anticommunist purges.
China and before them the USSR are parasitized by a social disease which spreads bloodshed and takes away human rights to everything it touches.
You're still not listening. The problem is not the Trump administration but rather that he was elected - again. All of US has to take responsibility for the failed democratic setup that by definition is now a dictatorship. Even if by some magical process a not insane dictator is elected you can give no guarantees anymore that US will become better and not go batshit crazy again. "EU will have to seize Alaska for security reasons! We cannot guarantee this will not happen with military power! US is a bad ally! US is a dumpsterfire! US is a poorly led country. We in EU need to make US pay because they are have been using EU as a cash machine for years. How stupid are we in EU to let this continue. But yeah Alaska will become European one way or the other. We need it!" How does that sound? Will US support EU in the process of making Alaska European? Because we expect US to support that to ensure US is not helping China and Russia further.
And China is worse because their cruel expansionist rulers are permanent.
How many people did China displace in the 21st century? How many did it kill? How many regimes did it overthrow? Because the War on Terror alone displaced 40 million and killed 5 million.
Don't sit there and pretend China and Russia, supporting Syria and Iran who in turn fund and militarize extremists across the middle east, had no part to play in the infinite proxy war. Not to mention Russia was the primary trading partner of Iraq under the rule of Saddam Hussein. While certainly the Bush Administration took advantage of the situation, the USA got roped into the war on terror by the 9/11 attacks orchestrated by a group of extremists from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan holding a suspicious number of AK47s popularized in the USSR, and under Obama and with help from NATO members as well as the Saudis the region was stabilizing and demilitarizing very quickly with both stronger borders and less US Troop presence.
You're a hypocrite and I legitimately hope Trump throws you into a concentration camp. Have a terrible day.