I think as far as etiquette goes, I would say: don't paste me unfiltered AI output. If it's not worth your effort to at least summarize that wall of slop, it's not worth my effort to read it.
Both, I guess.I can see the yellow background and thick black lines, which are usually the signs of a generated image.
Edit: Also the money in the tip jar looks like some unholy amalgamation of coins and bills.
I live in a country where tipping isn’t a thing, and nobody here wants it to be a thing. And American tourists come over and can’t comprehend not tipping so they tip anyway because they think we’re just being mean to each other and that we all want tipping to be a thing.
I mean it was a better solution than coughing openly into a group you are talking to, assuming you'd wash your hands afterward; but being in a men's bathroom, guys using the urinal or bowl just walk out without washing hands, so there is that.
No one taught you this? Even if nobody sits you down for a lesson, you are taught by example by the people around you when you grow up.
Also, the tipping and keeping doors open for people behind you are not universally applicable. In large swaths of Asia you'll be met by ire or confusion respectively. So maybe this is missing a generated image for being culturally sensitive.
Not disagreeing with what you’re saying here but it seems to assume that everyone is able to understand unspoken etiquette, which unfortunately isn’t the case.
For example, for myself, I hadn’t ever learned about a bunch of these (such as the waiting for other people to exit the elevator/doorway before entering, as well as the acknowledging staff one,) since I barely see them in action nor really concentrate deliberately on them, and it doesn’t help the fact I’m quite likely autistic.
Frankly, it’d be great if I was sat down and told about each of these things early on, it would’ve saved me from many years of confusion, conflict and anxiety, and it would’ve prevented me from thinking the reason I don’t fit in is exclusively my fault and I should pay for it.
I frankly don't believe that this guide alone would have solved as many issues for you as it would also cause. What is presented as universal wisdom is never that simple. The "nobody taught you" aspect is not universally true. I counted ten items in the list I was taught in school or by my parents. I'm not the center of the universe but we can extrapolate that some people have been taught some of these things in some setting. So there is already a mistake in the headline.
This "cool guide" is either redundant (letting people exit a place or the elevator first are roughly the same thing) or not specific enough (letting people exit buses and trains etc. before you enter is missing). You should also offer your chair or seat to those who need it more than you (e.g. pregnant, old, or injured people). You don't have to offer a replacement date if you cancel an appointment if you canceled in the first place because you don't want to hang out with an asshole. You don't need to clean up a mess you made while running outside while the house is on fire. There will be instances where you don't need to return a borrowed item in the same or better condition than when you borrowed it. If I lended you my dirty lawnmower I would not expect you to clean it or sharpen its blades before you returned it. The additional wear and tear is factored in already.
This poster gives the impression to contain simple, universal, virtuous truths. But none of them are always simple or always logical. They are at best a patchy guideline missing even more unarticulated conditions and exceptions that render them useless. And if you aren't aware of the missing bits, you'll still have awkward social interactions.
My suspicion is that somebody created a list of things they thought was the epitome of wisdom in general social interactions, in the US and not in a city with public transport options. They possibly used so-called AI to compile this list. It's even more likely that they used it to design the poster and to draw the little pictures. And then posted it online to be praised for their effort (don't aura farm ought to be a bullet point on this poster as well). It deserves to be criticized.
Yeah, this list was pretty vague honestly, I gotta agree on that front. And yeah, some of these were things I was taught by parents and peers, although that said, I don’t believe I was taught in primary school (or elementary school if that’s easier to understand) about really any of these, since the education system where I live is pretty permissive for what happens in kindergarten, primary school and middle school, but excessively strict in high school for some reason. Although, I do believe I was taught a bunch in kindergarten, but that was so long ago I barely remember anything apart from some kid who pushed me over for no reason lol.
Also yeah, the US-defaultism of this “cool guide” doesn’t really help either, especially as you mentioned, with the lack of public transport etiquette and the insistence on tipping.
There’s also the fact that for something like public transport, or even just doorways in general, exiting and entering is different based on the area and context. Such as where I live, where people on public transport take one side when entering, and the other side exits at the same time, whereas in store doorways for instance, if it’s wide enough it’s the same, but if it’s narrow enough people would need to wait their turn.
Overall, after having a thought about this “guide”, it’s generally low quality and biased, I’d rather just exert more energy trying to understand the etiquette of my peers rather than look at a guide like this unless it’s actually meaningful and specific.
That's a bit of the problem these days though; younger generations are not taught what concrete actions are deemed respectful. Furthermore it's viewed as a personal inconvenience for the sake of strangers.
How is this a guide for adults?? I knew most of these before I became an adult.
These ought to be taught by parents and other adults which are important in the child’s life, and backed up by demonstrations by example. Parents have a duty to demonstrate correct behaviours themselves, and reinforce those behaviours in their children.
The shopping cart one ought to be extended to “if you pick something up in the store and don’t want it, put it back where you got it from”. I see far too much perishable frozen/refrigerated goods stuffed elsewhere on a shelf and dethawing to unsaleability because people changed their minds and couldn’t be arsed to put it back where it came from.
For the “cover your mouth” one - please, for the love of Pete, learn the difference between a cough and a clearing of the throat. They are not the same damn thing.
I never knew the let people exit first because I never lived anywhere with public transit. It's obvious if someone brings any attention to it but in my head getting on the subway the first few times I was like "why are people running into me what is happening" lol
A smile is enough. A smile while talking transfers a smile to the voice (a trick I learned in the phone mines) . Eye contact is great but you don't have to have it.
I blows my mind how many adults don't know this. The way I was raised, I'd be embarrassed to get in someone's way as they tried to exit an elevator. But I was also taught that common decency is a good thing and we've clearly given up on that.
But I was also taught that common decency is a good thing
Funny, I never saw it as a decency thing, more utilitarian. It's a waste of effort to try to cram myself into an already occupied box (unless there are occupants staying in the box, of course).
At an airport there was a long wait and elevator was packed. My father in law and kids all got in, and now it's full then it goes to next floor and more people cram in. Now it is over stuffed. Goes to another floor and my father-in-law was fed up, when the doors opened he shoved the front people out and said this is where you get off and hit door close. They were saying "hey this isn't my floor".
Poor etiquette on both sides but still makes me laugh.
Nice post! I don't know how many are or aren't taught these things, as I feel like I was taught most of these myself. I do have some opinions though:
Tipping I feel like is a thing very pertained to the US, and shouldn't be considered "good etiquette", but rather altruistic. I.e. no pressure to give tips. Same with the car, but it should still be returned "in an equal or better condition" if possible.
Etiquette is not dependent on economic power.
Being loud in general is bad etiquette/uncivilized, so the three about loud music, speakerphone, and loudness in quiet public places could be a single entry.
Other duplicates: "let others exit first" and "clean up".
The coughing shows a graphic of holding the hand in front of the mouth, which should instead be the elbow because of simple hygiene.
The part about commenting on someone's food is a bit weird, as it could be extended to "don't share your opinion about my choices unless I ask". Thoughts?
I really like the modern inclusion of putting away your phone during conversations!
Things that could be added:
Value others' time; be on time, and don't be in the way of those with little time.
Do the small things yourself, regardless of whose responsibility it is (like pick up something from the floor).
Give space when there is space. E.g. walking on the sidewalk, shopping cart in aisle, personal space in the queue, etc.
Commenting on other people's food is very common around here. Maybe it's more appropriate to say "don't content negatively on other people's food"? Or better yet, "don't comment negatively on anything unprompted".
I actually really like the “give space when there is space” one you mentioned, since when I’m at supermarkets, I routinely see people’s carts at crooked angles or almost in the middle of the aisle, stopping me from passing through, and I make sure to adjust my cart all the time, since I don’t wanna waste anyone’s time or deplete their energy trying to fit through. I also get thanked for it a lot, so that’s nice too.
Big fat no on the tipping. Tipping should be outlawed altogether, start paying your employees a decent wage instead!
Also do comment on people's food choices as long as it is positive. "That looks awesome, I would LOVE some >insert nice food here< for myself next time!" I would maybe change that one to just "Don't criticize people for their decisions that do not affect you" or something like that
No virtue signalling intended but I'm happy to say that I do all the rest of these things, are those things not normal to do anyway?
Lot of people here saying they disagree with the tipping one. But you must surely admit that it is everyday etiquette in Canada. This guide is not for what's ethical -- after all, it is ethical to harangue somebody about their unethical dietary decisions -- it's to teach you what to do so that you fit in to this society better.
Where does this guide state anything about Canada ? In Northern Europe its seen as an insult to tip your waiter. Just pay your workers a living wage instead of hoping for the customers gratitude.
Hot damn, i just saw what Lemmy instance I'm on. I'll let my comment stay just to add to the discussion, but I was wrong and are sorry for the misunderstanding.
I see a lot of comments dismissing the information because of it use of AI for the graphics. Would it have been received better if the post was simply a list of bullet points? I couldn't do graphics if my life depended on it, but I still feel this presentation is easier to digest and process than it'd be if it was plain text, so I'd probably go the same route of using AI to better convey what I'm trying to.
Whoever "made" this could have easily used the plethora of media freely available to them, pre-made by human artists, for each point in this. Clipart is decades old.
Or they could absolutely ditch the artwork and choose a different way to present this! The de-google guides that always pop up rarely have images. It's all simple shapes that are easy to read and look at.
There is absolutely zero need for AI here.
I couldn't do graphics if my life depended on it
Yes you can, you just don't want to put in the effort. Get drawing.
AI is being forced into EVERYONE'S lives, whether we want it or not, and to make that happen; land and ecosystems are being destroyed, people's lives are being upended, resources are being made more expensive and less obtainable for everyday people, people's creations are being stolen and morphed into this machine that erases any nuance, self-expression, or human connection, while disconnecting people that enjoy art from those that pour their heart and soul into creating it.
AI IS bad, and no that fact is not up for discussion/debate. Every use of AI is detrimental to human expression and connection, while further harming the world/environment we all exist in. We've done enough harm as a species.
But then we have a problem with AI's process, not the underlying technology. What I mean to say is, if I were to train and run my own model in an isolated local computer, using ethically sourced* training material, then would it still be bad?
Like, are we mad at the means needed to make the technology work or simply at the technology? Because if it's the former, then we can do something about it. Agriculture is a hell of a technology, but there are very detrimental ways to apply it.
*Let's gloss over what ethically sourced really means for the sake of discussion.
Sure, if you built an AI on your own machine, trained it entirely on public commons and voluntarily obtained data with the active consent, and powered it entirely on solar power and wind turbines, to do jobs without intrinsic value to human development, people would have a lot fewer objections to it. But you didn't. And you won't, because it would take resources that exceed anything you have available to do so. Much like genetic modification, there are motives and methods that potentially have real value, but they don't tend to have significant return on investment and so are simply not done, and what is done ranges from suspect to objectively exploitative. You cannot create an ethical AI in the current environment, if such a thing is even possible.
It may very well be the former; but I don't believe 'ethically trained' and 'useful' is an achievable combination in AI models, particularly within our capitalist world/society.
Even if such a thing was created; it'd be impossible to verify and distinguish among the flood of media produced by those that just don't care about the broader picture and those effected. The detrimental effects of global AI infrastructure has greatly overshadowed the potential for 'ethical' AI implementation; and now we just don't have the means to sort through 'ethical' vs not, leaving no option but to reject it outright.
You can't train your own though. You can't make your own AI that knows what a cat or Picasso is without it using works that are not yours. You'd never be able to tell it to write you a novel because it wouldn't have any to work with.
From the perspective of art, explain to me how it can start as good from the get go or a benefit that's not just I can be lazy? It's built on theft of countless artists let alone the overall waste it produces.
Before going into the art part of your comment, in curious, why is being lazy an undesirable thing? What constitutes lazy? At which point does one stop "being lazy" and become "just using the available tools"? Is writing in a computer and then printing it just laziness as opposed to writing it by hand? What if instead of using a pencil I use a raw graphite piece? Is using a pencil lazy?
Or is it something else we're criticising here? Are we mad at the lack of creative effort? How effortless can something be before it becomes worthless?
If saying it's "lazy" really hurts you that much then sorry. My point is that, and your example is actually perfect, if I stencil or photoshop 1, 2 maybe 3 into a single art at the least I have put time and effort into it. There's intent behind it and let's say hypothetically I then went around saying hey, look at my effort and what I created initially you can see the inspiration assuming proper credit is given. If I then go and try to sell it or take full credit then EVERYONE knows it's source and can scrutinize it since now money and/or reputation is involved.
Now go to AI all LLM bar none are unethical or at least dubious in nature when it comes to what I described due to its black box like behavior. Now tell me as a layman making the millionth Ghibli "art" it does two things. Normalize and dilute the original and then commodify and create extremely stringent rules on sourcing without AI. Basically like how deepfakes and the likes are, which is definitely another VERY inexcusable and utterly garbage side effect. And for high visibility stuff like Ghibli, at least you know what's up but the silent and even more painful side is the damage done on the smaller scale artists as AI "artists" flood the market without a care to make a quick buck. Collages, Photoshop and the likes exist for those less artistically gifted (I can't draw either btw) that still left a semblance of human effort but even that is now gone.
So no it doesn't matter the materialistic nature (graphite vs digital), it is the human side of it, the intent. If you tell me that that's not what I consider lazy or more kindly, opportunistic and only that then tell me what's been good so far. For every 1 break through in health or astronomy for the greater good, there are 10x or more number of societal issues that crop up due to it as we continue to feel the pain with no solution in sight.
Assuming you actually read and understand what I say and not just not pick words that might feel too blunt to you, tell me about your art part of my comment.
This was the same argument when cameras were invented, and artists moved to abstract and impressionist movement since realism in art couldn't compete with photography. Then we had the same with manual graphic artist moving to digital vector software.
AI is not going away. Does it suck ass for artists: yes. Does it allow non artists to convey visual ideas they never could or could afford: also yes.
I hate AI when used like this, I think all AI effort should be human disease gene modeling, or other public benefits. But capitalism says no.
Ok, that makes sense. So what constitutes art? Is any kind of graphical depiction art? Are we banning computers from making drawings? Or just AI? How different is it from using the drawing tools in MS Paint to help me achieve a nice rectangle or a perfect circle? Something I would be unable to do by free hand drawing.
there are people, companies, and systems that are making the world a worse place, though people may disagree on exactly what/who those are.
a fair number of people on Lemmy/Piefed believe that GenAI as promoted by companies like OpenAI is one of those things that are making the world a worse place.
to such people, using GenAI for convenience does not excuse anyone from contributing to companies/systems that are making the world a worse place.
So I guess if someone honestly believes that GenAI is not bad, then they are being morally consistent when they use it. However, if they're making an infographic, the point of it may be lost on those who believe that GenAI is bad and thus have a morally consistent aversion to it.
Now, IS GenAI really that bad? That argument seems to be raging elsewhere in this thread.
Yeah, I agree. The post isn't about GenAI but we can't engage with the content because we're still having a moral discussion on how the content was created.
Nah, handing someone your phone without sensible precautions to lock down sensitive data is irresponsible and begging for trouble.
There's never a good reason to do that just to show a photo.
Someone might think you're sharing an album, and even then, there are far better ways to share without compromising security.
Might as well share your bank account with them or spread your ass cheeks wide open.
Such irresponsibility lacks etiquette.
::: spoiler Lack of text alternative breaks etiquette and web accessibility.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not.
Losses due to image of text lacking alternative:
usability
we can't quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR
There's never a good reason to hand someone your phone to show them a photo? Good grief. Do you have nobody where handing them your phone is not equivalent to spreading your ass cheeks?
I partly agree, like if you have sensitive images like nudes or other stuff you don’t want others to see, then put it in a protected folder requiring your password just to be safe. There’s also the fact most phone image viewers also have previews of other images at the bottom, so the other person could accidentally glance and see a faint icon of a dick or whatever and still find it a bit weird.
Then again though, if you hand someone your phone to see a single image, and that person feels it’s their right to see your entire photo library, to say it directly, they’re an obnoxious dickhead.
You don't cover your mouth with your hand, I thought since Covid crisis it was common knowledge.
Also, commenting food choices is political. Why can't I comment food of speceists eating animals or animals derivated products in order to understand what allows them to eat such food and how is it ethical at all? 🤔
Why can’t I comment food of speceists eating animals or animals derivated products in order to understand what allows them to eat such food and how is it ethical at all?
I don't personnally ask people at dinner but I do it outside when I go to rally and do public actions. Any problem with protests, standup actions and democracy? 🤔
PS: most of the time others do not hesitate, at dinner, to comment what I eat tho. But I have a feeling you feel bad about being part of mass murder and torture of sentient beings, don't you?
If this induced rage in you, seek therapy my man. Also, if you'd ever spent any significant time around other people you'd know how often these simple etiquette rules are broken.
So I guess neurodivergent people don’t exist then? I personally found it difficult to learn many of these when I was growing up, since I could never truly understand these unspoken rules, which felt like everyone else was communicating them through some other medium I never had access to. I still struggle with them as an adult too, not because I don’t have a will to learn them, but genuinely because nobody explicitly stated them to me before.
I’ve had many autistic and other ND friends, and most of them also had difficulties in these, for which many were targeted as the “odd ones out”, not because they were weird, but because they didn’t know the etiquette.
Neurodevelopmental disorders don’t disappear, and since I’ve realised I’m likely autistic, the reason I didn’t fit in when I was younger fell into place, it wasn’t my fault, it’s just that people are unreasonably expected to follow unspoken rules that are completely invisible to quite a large percentage of the population.
You missed one: don't use ai to generate images.
He missed a few more as well.
I think as far as etiquette goes, I would say: don't paste me unfiltered AI output. If it's not worth your effort to at least summarize that wall of slop, it's not worth my effort to read it.
Just report and block the guy
Unless you're entering a secure location, in which case don't.
My work place has to keep sending out emails to remind everyone to not hold the door open for people tailing them.
That's... most unfortunate. I've yet to work in any place where that wouldn't have been grounds for immediate dismissal.
Fuck AI alop.
Are you claiming this posted content to be AI generated or that we should 'Fuck AI slop' as a etiquette?
Both, I guess.I can see the yellow background and thick black lines, which are usually the signs of a generated image. Edit: Also the money in the tip jar looks like some unholy amalgamation of coins and bills.
Half of the tips overlap with each other too
I live in a country where tipping isn’t a thing, and nobody here wants it to be a thing. And American tourists come over and can’t comprehend not tipping so they tip anyway because they think we’re just being mean to each other and that we all want tipping to be a thing.
Please don't cover your mouth when you cough with your hands. Please don't.
Just to clarify, the suggestion here is to use the crook of your elbow.
Like Dracula!
Bela Lugosi
No use your neighbors butt cheeks. Play them like the tuba
Well, I’m now officially unsubscribed from “I’ll try anything once.”
Coughing with your hands? Haha.
I think your comment could do with a tweak.
"When you cough, please don't cover your mouth with your hands. Please don't."
-or-
"Please don't cover your mouth, when you cough, with your hands. Please don't."
Yeah. It doesn't read right! 🥴
I mean it was a better solution than coughing openly into a group you are talking to, assuming you'd wash your hands afterward; but being in a men's bathroom, guys using the urinal or bowl just walk out without washing hands, so there is that.
No one taught you this? Even if nobody sits you down for a lesson, you are taught by example by the people around you when you grow up.
Also, the tipping and keeping doors open for people behind you are not universally applicable. In large swaths of Asia you'll be met by ire or confusion respectively. So maybe this is missing a generated image for being culturally sensitive.
Not disagreeing with what you’re saying here but it seems to assume that everyone is able to understand unspoken etiquette, which unfortunately isn’t the case.
For example, for myself, I hadn’t ever learned about a bunch of these (such as the waiting for other people to exit the elevator/doorway before entering, as well as the acknowledging staff one,) since I barely see them in action nor really concentrate deliberately on them, and it doesn’t help the fact I’m quite likely autistic.
Frankly, it’d be great if I was sat down and told about each of these things early on, it would’ve saved me from many years of confusion, conflict and anxiety, and it would’ve prevented me from thinking the reason I don’t fit in is exclusively my fault and I should pay for it.
I frankly don't believe that this guide alone would have solved as many issues for you as it would also cause. What is presented as universal wisdom is never that simple. The "nobody taught you" aspect is not universally true. I counted ten items in the list I was taught in school or by my parents. I'm not the center of the universe but we can extrapolate that some people have been taught some of these things in some setting. So there is already a mistake in the headline.
This "cool guide" is either redundant (letting people exit a place or the elevator first are roughly the same thing) or not specific enough (letting people exit buses and trains etc. before you enter is missing). You should also offer your chair or seat to those who need it more than you (e.g. pregnant, old, or injured people). You don't have to offer a replacement date if you cancel an appointment if you canceled in the first place because you don't want to hang out with an asshole. You don't need to clean up a mess you made while running outside while the house is on fire. There will be instances where you don't need to return a borrowed item in the same or better condition than when you borrowed it. If I lended you my dirty lawnmower I would not expect you to clean it or sharpen its blades before you returned it. The additional wear and tear is factored in already.
This poster gives the impression to contain simple, universal, virtuous truths. But none of them are always simple or always logical. They are at best a patchy guideline missing even more unarticulated conditions and exceptions that render them useless. And if you aren't aware of the missing bits, you'll still have awkward social interactions.
My suspicion is that somebody created a list of things they thought was the epitome of wisdom in general social interactions, in the US and not in a city with public transport options. They possibly used so-called AI to compile this list. It's even more likely that they used it to design the poster and to draw the little pictures. And then posted it online to be praised for their effort (don't aura farm ought to be a bullet point on this poster as well). It deserves to be criticized.
Yeah, this list was pretty vague honestly, I gotta agree on that front. And yeah, some of these were things I was taught by parents and peers, although that said, I don’t believe I was taught in primary school (or elementary school if that’s easier to understand) about really any of these, since the education system where I live is pretty permissive for what happens in kindergarten, primary school and middle school, but excessively strict in high school for some reason. Although, I do believe I was taught a bunch in kindergarten, but that was so long ago I barely remember anything apart from some kid who pushed me over for no reason lol.
Also yeah, the US-defaultism of this “cool guide” doesn’t really help either, especially as you mentioned, with the lack of public transport etiquette and the insistence on tipping.
There’s also the fact that for something like public transport, or even just doorways in general, exiting and entering is different based on the area and context. Such as where I live, where people on public transport take one side when entering, and the other side exits at the same time, whereas in store doorways for instance, if it’s wide enough it’s the same, but if it’s narrow enough people would need to wait their turn.
Overall, after having a thought about this “guide”, it’s generally low quality and biased, I’d rather just exert more energy trying to understand the etiquette of my peers rather than look at a guide like this unless it’s actually meaningful and specific.
Your parents failed you if they didn't teach at least half of these, Christ.
Entire poster could be summarised as: treat other people with respect and empathy.
That's a bit of the problem these days though; younger generations are not taught what concrete actions are deemed respectful. Furthermore it's viewed as a personal inconvenience for the sake of strangers.
"Common sense is not that common."
People need to be taught how to do those by giving them specific examples
Your parents. Your parents are expected to teach you these.
To hell with your tipping culture
Yeah this makes it seem US flavored.
AI Trash
But... It's not trash. It's useful information for some people.
Trashing this post just because it's AI doesn't make you a better person.
If no one taught you a good majority of these: What the hell did your parents teach you?
Would change the "cover your mouth" the presumedly ai generated image shows someone using their hand - which is not cool.
cough into your elbow so you don't spread germs.
Well, it's AI, so they're probably using someone else's hand.
I never knew the let people exit first because I never lived anywhere with public transit. It's obvious if someone brings any attention to it but in my head getting on the subway the first few times I was like "why are people running into me what is happening" lol
Don't look in my eyes. Fuck that don't even look at me if you can help it and I'll return the favor
A smile is enough. A smile while talking transfers a smile to the voice (a trick I learned in the phone mines) . Eye contact is great but you don't have to have it.
Why is there a separate one for exiting an elevator when there's one for exiting rooms below? Same principle
"no one" teaches you to sneeze in the elbow?? What do you teach kids at all then?
If you poop on the floor, do it in the same corner each time. Even monkeys can figure that out
I blows my mind how many adults don't know this. The way I was raised, I'd be embarrassed to get in someone's way as they tried to exit an elevator. But I was also taught that common decency is a good thing and we've clearly given up on that.
Funny, I never saw it as a decency thing, more utilitarian. It's a waste of effort to try to cram myself into an already occupied box (unless there are occupants staying in the box, of course).
Same with trains. Nobody in my city seems to get that. I just barge my way through them crowded at the entrance if I'm getting out
It's wild when I see people just shove onto an elevator like my dude. The hell. Why. And they get mad when we're all annoyed at them!
At an airport there was a long wait and elevator was packed. My father in law and kids all got in, and now it's full then it goes to next floor and more people cram in. Now it is over stuffed. Goes to another floor and my father-in-law was fed up, when the doors opened he shoved the front people out and said this is where you get off and hit door close. They were saying "hey this isn't my floor".
Poor etiquette on both sides but still makes me laugh.
How else can I crop dust if I can't leave first? Did no one teach them how to crop dust?
You cover your mouth with your hand when you cough, but you don't cover your ass when you fart. Curious.
Unless you're naked; your ass is already covered.
You assume a lot about both my anatomy and my clothing choices
No thank you
Nice post! I don't know how many are or aren't taught these things, as I feel like I was taught most of these myself. I do have some opinions though:
Etiquette is not dependent on economic power.
Commenting on other people's food is very common around here. Maybe it's more appropriate to say "don't content negatively on other people's food"? Or better yet, "don't comment negatively on anything unprompted".
It is so general on that one!
“Hey that food looks good”
“Don’t tell me how my food looks!”
I actually really like the “give space when there is space” one you mentioned, since when I’m at supermarkets, I routinely see people’s carts at crooked angles or almost in the middle of the aisle, stopping me from passing through, and I make sure to adjust my cart all the time, since I don’t wanna waste anyone’s time or deplete their energy trying to fit through. I also get thanked for it a lot, so that’s nice too.
Big fat no on the tipping. Tipping should be outlawed altogether, start paying your employees a decent wage instead!
Also do comment on people's food choices as long as it is positive. "That looks awesome, I would LOVE some >insert nice food here< for myself next time!" I would maybe change that one to just "Don't criticize people for their decisions that do not affect you" or something like that
No virtue signalling intended but I'm happy to say that I do all the rest of these things, are those things not normal to do anyway?
When a lot of today's parents fail to teach their kids all these things... But to. Hell with the tipping
Im pretty sure a lot of these are taught by parents and cultural osmosis, at least where I live.
Edit: The pandemic definately tried to teach people to cover their face holes while sneezing or coughing
My mom taught me all of these, other then the phone ones bcauee cell phones didn't exist back then.
I thought most of those things were the standard
Hey ooli, I did not like your post. What was your reasoning when you decided to make it?
I'd be sincerely interested in the (thought) process.
If you're really interested in a constructive discussion you should start by stating what did you not like of the post and why.
Hey, why as of february 26 didnt you post anything on the site in 2 years of presence?
Answer the question please, slop peddler
Lot of people here saying they disagree with the tipping one. But you must surely admit that it is everyday etiquette in Canada. This guide is not for what's ethical -- after all, it is ethical to harangue somebody about their unethical dietary decisions -- it's to teach you what to do so that you fit in to this society better.
Where does this guide state anything about Canada ? In Northern Europe its seen as an insult to tip your waiter. Just pay your workers a living wage instead of hoping for the customers gratitude.
Hot damn, i just saw what Lemmy instance I'm on. I'll let my comment stay just to add to the discussion, but I was wrong and are sorry for the misunderstanding.
Don't shit on the floor, and if you do, make sure to clean it up. #lifehacks
You shouldn't have to be taught any of these. All these are just tacit behavior you pick up automatically if you're around decent folk.
I see a lot of comments dismissing the information because of it use of AI for the graphics. Would it have been received better if the post was simply a list of bullet points? I couldn't do graphics if my life depended on it, but I still feel this presentation is easier to digest and process than it'd be if it was plain text, so I'd probably go the same route of using AI to better convey what I'm trying to.
Do you think the only choices are AI art or not?
Whoever "made" this could have easily used the plethora of media freely available to them, pre-made by human artists, for each point in this. Clipart is decades old.
Or they could absolutely ditch the artwork and choose a different way to present this! The de-google guides that always pop up rarely have images. It's all simple shapes that are easy to read and look at.
There is absolutely zero need for AI here.
Yes you can, you just don't want to put in the effort. Get drawing.
So if I'm understanding correctly, the vox populi is that any AI-generated image is automatically bad/slop/misuse? Are we satanizing AI now?
When were we not?
That seems a very narrow and binary perspective. There's no room for nuance, it's simply "AI is bad and we won't talk further about it".
AI is being forced into EVERYONE'S lives, whether we want it or not, and to make that happen; land and ecosystems are being destroyed, people's lives are being upended, resources are being made more expensive and less obtainable for everyday people, people's creations are being stolen and morphed into this machine that erases any nuance, self-expression, or human connection, while disconnecting people that enjoy art from those that pour their heart and soul into creating it.
AI IS bad, and no that fact is not up for discussion/debate. Every use of AI is detrimental to human expression and connection, while further harming the world/environment we all exist in. We've done enough harm as a species.
But then we have a problem with AI's process, not the underlying technology. What I mean to say is, if I were to train and run my own model in an isolated local computer, using ethically sourced* training material, then would it still be bad? Like, are we mad at the means needed to make the technology work or simply at the technology? Because if it's the former, then we can do something about it. Agriculture is a hell of a technology, but there are very detrimental ways to apply it.
*Let's gloss over what ethically sourced really means for the sake of discussion.
Sure, if you built an AI on your own machine, trained it entirely on public commons and voluntarily obtained data with the active consent, and powered it entirely on solar power and wind turbines, to do jobs without intrinsic value to human development, people would have a lot fewer objections to it. But you didn't. And you won't, because it would take resources that exceed anything you have available to do so. Much like genetic modification, there are motives and methods that potentially have real value, but they don't tend to have significant return on investment and so are simply not done, and what is done ranges from suspect to objectively exploitative. You cannot create an ethical AI in the current environment, if such a thing is even possible.
It may very well be the former; but I don't believe 'ethically trained' and 'useful' is an achievable combination in AI models, particularly within our capitalist world/society.
Even if such a thing was created; it'd be impossible to verify and distinguish among the flood of media produced by those that just don't care about the broader picture and those effected. The detrimental effects of global AI infrastructure has greatly overshadowed the potential for 'ethical' AI implementation; and now we just don't have the means to sort through 'ethical' vs not, leaving no option but to reject it outright.
Do it then. Start by describing ten thousand images, so your local ai can learn how to recreate them.
Ten thousand isn't nearly enough btw
I've worked and researched with ai and trained a model. I like classificators and CNNs, I don't like chatbots and image generators.
You can't train your own though. You can't make your own AI that knows what a cat or Picasso is without it using works that are not yours. You'd never be able to tell it to write you a novel because it wouldn't have any to work with.
From the perspective of art, explain to me how it can start as good from the get go or a benefit that's not just I can be lazy? It's built on theft of countless artists let alone the overall waste it produces.
Before going into the art part of your comment, in curious, why is being lazy an undesirable thing? What constitutes lazy? At which point does one stop "being lazy" and become "just using the available tools"? Is writing in a computer and then printing it just laziness as opposed to writing it by hand? What if instead of using a pencil I use a raw graphite piece? Is using a pencil lazy? Or is it something else we're criticising here? Are we mad at the lack of creative effort? How effortless can something be before it becomes worthless?
If saying it's "lazy" really hurts you that much then sorry. My point is that, and your example is actually perfect, if I stencil or photoshop 1, 2 maybe 3 into a single art at the least I have put time and effort into it. There's intent behind it and let's say hypothetically I then went around saying hey, look at my effort and what I created initially you can see the inspiration assuming proper credit is given. If I then go and try to sell it or take full credit then EVERYONE knows it's source and can scrutinize it since now money and/or reputation is involved.
Now go to AI all LLM bar none are unethical or at least dubious in nature when it comes to what I described due to its black box like behavior. Now tell me as a layman making the millionth Ghibli "art" it does two things. Normalize and dilute the original and then commodify and create extremely stringent rules on sourcing without AI. Basically like how deepfakes and the likes are, which is definitely another VERY inexcusable and utterly garbage side effect. And for high visibility stuff like Ghibli, at least you know what's up but the silent and even more painful side is the damage done on the smaller scale artists as AI "artists" flood the market without a care to make a quick buck. Collages, Photoshop and the likes exist for those less artistically gifted (I can't draw either btw) that still left a semblance of human effort but even that is now gone.
So no it doesn't matter the materialistic nature (graphite vs digital), it is the human side of it, the intent. If you tell me that that's not what I consider lazy or more kindly, opportunistic and only that then tell me what's been good so far. For every 1 break through in health or astronomy for the greater good, there are 10x or more number of societal issues that crop up due to it as we continue to feel the pain with no solution in sight.
Assuming you actually read and understand what I say and not just not pick words that might feel too blunt to you, tell me about your art part of my comment.
Your question was specific to AI images, not AI in general. There's plenty of nuance to be had with AI, but art is one thing it should never do.
This was the same argument when cameras were invented, and artists moved to abstract and impressionist movement since realism in art couldn't compete with photography. Then we had the same with manual graphic artist moving to digital vector software.
AI is not going away. Does it suck ass for artists: yes. Does it allow non artists to convey visual ideas they never could or could afford: also yes.
I hate AI when used like this, I think all AI effort should be human disease gene modeling, or other public benefits. But capitalism says no.
Ok, that makes sense. So what constitutes art? Is any kind of graphical depiction art? Are we banning computers from making drawings? Or just AI? How different is it from using the drawing tools in MS Paint to help me achieve a nice rectangle or a perfect circle? Something I would be unable to do by free hand drawing.
I'm thinking this through, myself.
So I guess if someone honestly believes that GenAI is not bad, then they are being morally consistent when they use it. However, if they're making an infographic, the point of it may be lost on those who believe that GenAI is bad and thus have a morally consistent aversion to it.
Now, IS GenAI really that bad? That argument seems to be raging elsewhere in this thread.
Yeah, I agree. The post isn't about GenAI but we can't engage with the content because we're still having a moral discussion on how the content was created.
Problem is, I don't think it's a question that can be answered in such a discussion. Ethics of AI is a pretty complex field.
Nah, handing someone your phone without sensible precautions to lock down sensitive data is irresponsible and begging for trouble. There's never a good reason to do that just to show a photo. Someone might think you're sharing an album, and even then, there are far better ways to share without compromising security.
Might as well share your bank account with them or spread your ass cheeks wide open. Such irresponsibility lacks etiquette. ::: spoiler Lack of text alternative breaks etiquette and web accessibility. Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative:
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images. :::
There's never a good reason to hand someone your phone to show them a photo? Good grief. Do you have nobody where handing them your phone is not equivalent to spreading your ass cheeks?
I partly agree, like if you have sensitive images like nudes or other stuff you don’t want others to see, then put it in a protected folder requiring your password just to be safe. There’s also the fact most phone image viewers also have previews of other images at the bottom, so the other person could accidentally glance and see a faint icon of a dick or whatever and still find it a bit weird.
Then again though, if you hand someone your phone to see a single image, and that person feels it’s their right to see your entire photo library, to say it directly, they’re an obnoxious dickhead.
You don't cover your mouth with your hand, I thought since Covid crisis it was common knowledge.
Also, commenting food choices is political. Why can't I comment food of speceists eating animals or animals derivated products in order to understand what allows them to eat such food and how is it ethical at all? 🤔
You're the reason we need these rules.
I don't personnally ask people at dinner but I do it outside when I go to rally and do public actions. Any problem with protests, standup actions and democracy? 🤔
PS: most of the time others do not hesitate, at dinner, to comment what I eat tho. But I have a feeling you feel bad about being part of mass murder and torture of sentient beings, don't you?
Go ham- ask everyone about their food, but recognize that it violates a nebulous and unsaid etiquette and may incur consequences commensurate.
You eat plants? Dont you know how much environment destruction you cause?? Learn to photosynthesis like the rest of us.
This is ragebait. Of course everyone has been taught all of these.
If this induced rage in you, seek therapy my man. Also, if you'd ever spent any significant time around other people you'd know how often these simple etiquette rules are broken.
So I guess neurodivergent people don’t exist then? I personally found it difficult to learn many of these when I was growing up, since I could never truly understand these unspoken rules, which felt like everyone else was communicating them through some other medium I never had access to. I still struggle with them as an adult too, not because I don’t have a will to learn them, but genuinely because nobody explicitly stated them to me before.
I’ve had many autistic and other ND friends, and most of them also had difficulties in these, for which many were targeted as the “odd ones out”, not because they were weird, but because they didn’t know the etiquette.
Neurodevelopmental disorders don’t disappear, and since I’ve realised I’m likely autistic, the reason I didn’t fit in when I was younger fell into place, it wasn’t my fault, it’s just that people are unreasonably expected to follow unspoken rules that are completely invisible to quite a large percentage of the population.