So it's treason, then?
Blatantly funded by the US. Where are all the "foreign interference!!!" Conservatives now? How is this legal??
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Blatantly funded by the US. Where are all the "foreign interference!!!" Conservatives now? How is this legal??
You all wannabe Americans? Go ahead and move to the US. Apply for citizenship. No one is stopping you. You're doing the rest of us a favor.
But, you don't get to take the land with you.
We could start by enforcing our laws. Foreign interference is everywhere, and we've just ignored it for decades. Eg, the US funds the Frasier Institute and no one makes any comment about this. Half of our media is owned by them. The convoy was subsidized by US funding. I don't believe for a moment that the UCP and/or its members aren't awash in US corporate bribes and cash promises.
Our country is under threat and no one seems to do a damn thing about it. Why doesn't any politician discuss this? Poilievre talks about Chinese interference, where is the concern for this interference by the US, very clearly our enemy??!
I remember when Canada used to prosecute and jail fascists. Now it coddles them.
To be fair, even if in the US legally, ICE is stopping you. And then shipping you off to some other foreign country's jail.
In this case, I have no problem with that.
We should have some citizenship exchange program so they can swap with those being persecuted in US for not being male white rich.
This is an ongoing operation by the CIA to Balkanize Canada. Canadians need to wake the fuck up.
Luckily they suck at it.
Maybe in Alberta, but in Québec, the independentist party took a frank right turn and is now leading the polls with a high margin. Election are in november this year!
https://qc125.com/
Dark blue "Q" in the charts.
Among their strong supporters is a Québec political commentator active in both Québec and France and funded by a French catho-fascist oligarch.
Not going to happen. Plus, I've read that most of those that do want to separate don't want join the US.
Even IF the people of Alberta vote in favour of leaving Canada it still has to be approved by Parliament, and that is not happening at this time with the current seat counts for each party.
I have lived in Calgary, Alberta for over 20 years. I don't know a single person who would want to leave Canada. I also know that Alberta would not stand a chance alone. We DEPEND on the federal government for funding and other Provinces for goods. We're land locked and have next to no manufacturing.
That's the fun part, once the US separates you from Canada, you don't get a choice about whether you want to join the US anymore, because your collapsing economy leaves you no choice. Divide and conquer, literally.
Hopefully those that would vote to separate know this ...
IF on the off chance it happens there will be a mass exodus. I'd be moving to British Columbia in a heart beat.
Look at Brexit. Many people look no further than what's on their Facebook feeds, making it quite easy to sway a referendum that fucks over a whole populace.
It amazes me that after seeing that complete shitshow that was Brexit that provincial separatists are like “Yea, this is exactly what we want and need to work towards”. Bottom of the cesspool bottom feeders the lot of them.
Je dirige tout autant mes critiques acerbes vers les séparatistes québécois.
Fully agree, we will be looking into moving the day after the vote results are announced
You mean the second part of Canada that will get slurped up by the empire? East is actually the safe bet.
There's no unilateral separation from Canada without reconciling all of the constitutionality protected indigenous land claims, and they've all indicated they have no interest. Also the Constitution would need to be renegotiated, and this would require all provinces. This will stretch any practical timeline for secession out indefinitely.
The US interests have no bearing on this, unless they plan on invading.
Yup, they just did a full on genocide on their indigenous groups. I guess I wouldn't rule out them to do it again.
Votes aren't looking like they're going to mean anything in the US anymore. Don't be too confident they're going to respect any vote in Alberta.
I believe behind the scenes, it's got the smell of Trump.
This is treason and should be prosecuted. There is no justice until they are behind bars.
Kick these traitors out of Canada or prison. Carney needs to do something about this
#treason
This is like, cut and dry, 100% treason. What the fuck?
The Canadian prosecution and courts absolutely need to squash this. Sub-state actors goin on random adventures like this causes war down the line - in fact we had a 30 Years' war about that.
It's just capitalism, baby! Just a business arrangement between two close personal friends in the oil industry. No need to get democracy involved.
They can vote themselves out if they want.
They don't get the land, though; they trade their passport for a plane ticket.
That's the only deal they get. C'est bon?
I would be happy if separation means individual separation from Canada...they turn in their passport and get a ride over the border.
But the US doesn't want them they want the resources.
We always need oil field workers, but they better not be expecting any government handouts.
Can we just ship the dinks that agreed with it? The rest of us like where we live.
I say that's the only deal they get.
I lived 8 years in the flatlands. It's not without its beauty, generosity, heart, intellect and soul. None of these attributes are shown by the politicos, who just need some encouragement to pupate to carpetbaggers and improve everyone's lives -- ideally they can fly away as beautiful but-tah-flies (I can't not hear the accent now) before their hungry caterpillar selves eat everything alive and green.
So it's okay if Canada and the EU would support and fund the independence of California?
I would say no, and I would expect any sensible country to bar this within its borders. To the extent that a state should have a nonviolent means of secession, this above all should not be subject to foreign interference.
You can find a more detailed view of my opinion on specific independence movements elsewhere in this thread.
Regarding California or indeed any other state breaking away from the US, it's none of our business. And, before you ask, in the highly unlikely event that they wished to join Canada, I would expect them to gain independence and then, separately, start any process of joining another country.
Russia already does. All such movements they will fund. Catalonia, california, texas, I forget the rest.
Alberta separatists never shut up about running a pipeline through Washington to the west coast.
If the West Coast went to Canada after Alberta separated, that would be the ultimate poetic justice. Alberta would be back negotiating with Canada but now as a foreign state with all the animosity of a recent separation. I'd almost like to see it if it didn't mean massive political upheaval.
Wexit is like Brexit but way more petty, stupid, and pointless. An independent Alberta couldn't defend themselves against ICE stationed in Montana, let alone the US military proper.
And, since America is taking custody of oilfields in this hemisphere under the Monroe Doctrine, the Tarsands are a likely target. Danielle Smith better get comfy cosy with the idea of living in a detention facility, charged with "insulting the Dear Leader under her breath" (slander) or "being a woman in power" (blasphemy).
As a Washingtonian: Fuck that, and fuck them.
Also, do they know anything about Washington? Good luck getting us to agree to an oil pipeline.
I actually wasn't aware that there would be pushback from Washington on this. The separatists and the Premier constantly go on about how they'll go to the Americans if Canada won't let them build a pipeline through BC (even though the Trudeau government literally bought them a pipeline a few years ago).
I imagine their plan is to ship oil to the Gulf States for refining, and that's it. They probably also assume they'll get all of the benefits of being American, which I presume mostly involves second amendment rights.
Wexit would be Brexit... but with a landlocked country with an economy a tiny fraction of the size based entirely on oil, who unlike the UK (who is going it alone) are subsumed into a larger country that wants nothing to do with the people and wouldn't even give them a vote. Oh and good luck with all the indigenous peoples, they are famously even-tempered about having their land occupied and will surely not interrupt any economic infrastructure, and that's assuming the Supreme Court doesn't stand on rulings that bar Alberta from leaving and taking unceded land with them.
In a great twist of irony, the indigenous peoples may save Canada, and I hope it ultimately brings all Canadians closer together, and they get the respect they deserve.
Wow, that is pretty shocking to hear. Washington is as progressive as they come in the US, and that includes California. (Without getting into the whole urban/rural divide because that's true in both/all states.)
I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is to railroad us, but there would be less pushback shipping it south.
Washington, Oregon, and California would make nice Canadian provinces.
We sure would. The western parts, at least.
How about Alaska?
Culturally right-leaning but much less so than it used to be.
jack posebiec is the owner of the account, endwokeness on social media, he has a honeypot russian wife.
I propose a border swap: USA gets Alberta, Canada gets Washington State
(Please I beg you get me out of here)
Nooooooo!
80+% of Albertans do NOT support this nonsense!
I think Oregon and California would want to come too.
And that, my friends, is the art of the deal.
Trump cancels any talks with Canada over tariffs because of fords anti-tariff commercial, because we’re meddling in their politics, but these Nazi fucking yanks can do this?
Time for Canada to cut off all talk with the filthy yanks, cut off the power we provide them and let them stew in the cold for a while.
Fuck I hate America.
Trade it for California?
I get that they are being hypocrites, but surely it would only make it easier for US states to secede.
They must really hate labor laws and healthcare up there in Alberta to consider this
They hate a lot of things in Alberta.
Healthcare, education, trans people, Brown people, green energy...
Fuck you Scott, take your adled mind and get the fuck out of Alberta.
It'd be nice if the feds could chime in to take a verbal dump on the UCP aiding and abetting MAGA traitors.
Why the hell would anyone want to be part of the dumpster fire in America.
Tucker Carlson and his lot are all in on this.
This is an important distinction: foreign means “foreign.” Venezuela and Canada are considered to be the US’s back yard, hence fair game. This is what anti interventionist MAGA has been pushing and pushing for.
Your foreign interference comment made me think about this petition calling for a legislation requiring majority Canadian ownership and control of news media. With everything happening in the US, I think it is important that as many people as possible sign it: https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-6821
Divide et impera. It's the same across Europe and NA- almost as if there is a concerted effort funded by someone who wants to divide us and make us fight each other and succumb to internal strife instead of attacking the guy in the mask twirling his mustache behind that onion shaped cathedral over there.
So he's just after oil huh
OK cool it's good to hear we have the money to give another country a "loan" to basically buy them.
Bribe leaders. Alberta will want to keep universal healthcare as part of the deal. Rest of you will pay for that too
Until they become the 51st state, which will be a "join or else" deal. Then they'll enjoy the US healthcare "system".
If it happens they will die like the rest of the invaders.
lol promised money from a felon grifters government? Someone would need to be pretty dense if they thought they’d see a dime of that without getting totally railed.
Can California Washington and Hawaii maybe replace them….asking for a friend?
Hawaii is a nice suggestion
I want Oregon too.
It’s a package deal
Washington and Oregon stick together.
Works for me
The AB op is underway.
How much in oil do they pull out a year in total and then after costs do we know?
If I recall it has a high break even point, I think 60 a barrel even, they've to like steam oil sands and then remove the water, and it's a type of crude they've to add extra viscous chemicals to so it doesn't clump up, or something.
Bit tangential, but what's the Canadian opinion on other independence movements like Scotland, Catanuya...
I have the feeling a lot of people support independence from other countries, but reject the one at home.
I'm not Canadian so I don't know the context of Alberta, feel free to ELI5.
You dont even need to look at movements abroad to dispute this comparison. Quebec is right there and they had and have an actual, not-astroturfed independence movement with actual justifications for their beliefs, with an argument grounded in the right to self-determination and their national history.
Alberta has nothing going on that makes independence a serious consideration.
I don't know about Quebec either, only in passing. At least in knew it existed for a while, Alberta I didn't until this post, so I guess what you say tracks
Yes, but this is different
What you name in your post are independent movements that have been going on since pretty much forever, and it's a freedom that that population wants.
Alberta is just a bunch of rich pricks very likely directed and funded by the US. Yes, this part is slightly conspiratorial, but it is very obvious that that government has very unsanitary connections with the US Republicans.
Had it been for example Quebec, it might have been a different story, this just very much feels like the US Republicans working hard to destabilize Canada
Fuck Danielle Smith with an umbrella, she is a traitor who sold out the provence to the US, pretty much
Exactly, it is very telling the trumpists are salivating over Alberta but haven't touched Quebec, which is the one province that has a movement with an actually legitimate independence movement.
For the record: Québec independence leaders are very adamant about the "historical relation to the US" these days: if Canada is divesting its economy, Québec should become independent to keep good relations with the US. So I would not be surprised if some money was flowing that way too.
Needless to say you see an independent Québec becoming a vassal state to the US from miles away.
French-speaking-will-die-before-talking-English-Quebec would prefer the arrogance of the US over Canada? They barely tolerate Canada
I can't speak for all Canadians, I truly have no idea.
From my own personal opinion, I'm aware that every independence movement is a unique case, and I won't pretend I understand any of them outside of my own country, nor would I blindly support any of them just because they were ostensibly independence movements.
I will say this, again from my perspective, it seems to me that Alberta isn't and never was an independent country like Scotland may have been, and the history of Alberta - including the indigenous peoples who currently live there and have agreements with the federal government (notably NOT the province) - as well as recent Canadian law on the topics (eg Clarity Act), puts Alberta in a rather more clear position on the topic of independence. That is to say, even if they could reconcile all treaty matters and carve out any land for themselves, and even if they could reimburse the federal government for all the pension plan balances and the proportion of debt, and even if they had a sustainable economic foundation, they probably would never get through the legal and constitutional blockers.
I know all of this about Alberta, and none of this about Scotland. So, no opinion of value, and no comment.
But if it looked like Brexit, I would instinctively advise against it.
A minority in alberta want to separate because they are racists and trans/homophobes. They think we will disappear if they separate. I for one will die keeping Alberta Canadian.
You keep using that word - I’m not sure it means what you think it does.
Ok sedition.
But I prefer to call them traitors because that's what they are.
Does that work for you?
What? No, “independent” - actually in the original post.
Huh? This is like saying Ukraine was speedrunning fascism because Russia installed sock puppets in Donbas. Perhaps you should think through what you're suggesting before typing it.
Gee I wonder where they came from!
No one I've ever met claims it's a utopia. Unlike Americans brainwashed from birth we don't believe our country is perfect, nor do we believe that other countries have no value. We don't believe our country is perfect and entitled to greatness.
Consider that you believe that we think this way, precisely because you can't imagine it differently.
That guys not an American lol, just a rabid xenophobe making you feel the same xenophobia you're pushing against Americans because we live in a country with a significantly propagandized population lmfao. Hilariously ironic. Maybe you should all just stop talking shit about citizens of nations as if they're monolithic?
Wow you've dropped a real steaming hot pile of take right here.
See my response to him.
Our country is propagandized by the US, and within Canada we aren't fed the same exceptionalist bullshit that they are in the US.
I know and I'm close with a lot of American friends, family and colleagues. I know they aren't all assholes, but unfortunately about half are, and about 1 in 6 actually want to annex my country.
Your tone is that of a deliberate agitator trying to get Canadians riled up against each other.
Not all of us. Just the Conservative traitors.
So... exactly like the US?
So most of the people outside of like 5 major cities
Also known as "not most people".
Not sure if you noticed but a substantial portion of Quebec was also not having any of the Conservative bullshit in the last election. I'm guessing because they didn't really jive with the way Poilievre seemed to want to suck Trump's balls from the back.
Quebec may have saved Canada. And now it seems like Alberta wants to destroy it. Quite the timeline.
And I must say, merci beaucoup
🤡