My wife buys me flowers and it makes me feel really special. She doesn't care for flowers at all, but she knows that I do, which makes me appreciate that much more that she'd pick out and pay for something that only I like.
Funny. But for real, phytoestrogens have really been slandered by masculine culture so afraid of anything femme.
Phytoestrogens, like those found in soy, actually make the body produce less estrogen and tend to help regulate estrogen hormonal production.
It does not just make you more feminine and make it harder to get strong unlike most manosphere peeps believe about "soyboys." I wonder if the phytoestrogens in beer are the same way.
Rye kernels and rye bread, sure, but not rye spirit. Bitter aromas generally don't make it through the distillation process. Rye whiskey does have a lot of oak tannins, but it shares that property with bourbon. I would agree that bourbon tastes somewhat "sweeter" than rye, but it's a subtle difference.
Beer is basically flower juice. Also, I'm still non-binary, I prefer gender-neutral and feminine terms, and I will transition in the future. Seriously!
The second link says it affects estrogen levels though, which is why I'm confused.
Is this new research?
Edit: the corroborating link the article provides doesn't really show much about how the study was conducted
Editedit: found what they were citing, but it's from the 90s, so it's very much not new, and it doesn't actually support what the article is claiming.
The studies described in the previous sections strongly support the hypothesis that congeners present in alcoholic beverages can produce measurable estrogenic effects, even at moderate drinking levels. Specifically, those studies found the following:
Alcoholic beverage congeners exerted estrogenic effects both in an experimental animal model and in post-menopausal women.
The estrogenic effects of alcoholic beverage congeners were detectable using a variety of estrogenic markers, including the pituitary hormones LH (in OVEX rats and postmenopausal women), FSH, and prolactin (in postmenopausal women); uterus weight (in OVEX rats); and the estrogen-responsive liver proteins HDL cholesterol and SHBG (in postmenopausal women).
In both the experimental animals and the postmenopausal women, the changes in the levels of all estrogenic markers were consistent with the presence of biologically active phytoestrogens in the congeners.
Red wine congeners and bourbon congeners produced similar estrogenic effects in experimental animals and in postmenopausal women.
Right, so all of this indicates that phytoestrogens indeed do have effects on mice and human estrogen related physiology. The effects can be a little puzzling, though. As I understand it, there are two types of estrogen receptors, Alpha and Beta. And there are many phytoestrogens as well as estrogenic chemicals that we are exposed to, with the one's in beer binding to Estrogen Receptor Alpha, which signals breast cells and breast cancer cells to proliferate. The binding affinity of the phytoestrogens is weaker than that of the endogenous estrogen. None the less when a given phytoestrogen is bound to a given receptor it gives a slightly weaker estrogen-like signal, and simultaneously prevents the binding of the endogenous estrogen (can't fit two keys into a single lock at the same time), which has a stronger affinty, and thus stronger effect when it is bound to the receptor. So in an individual with lots of estrogen, the phytoestrogen may lower the estrogenic signal, and in someone with less estrogen it may augment the estrogenic signal in the body. Does that make sense? Do you have questions?
Why does beer keep getting singled out when red wine and bourbon produce similar effects?
Edit: Also a bit peeved, because I've got hashimotos and talked to a dietician about diet affecting my hormone troubles, and they assured me plant hormones didn't have an effect on humans.
No clue, not really sure it's the case that beer is being singled out. The original post was about beer. We could talk about the other phytoestrogens, and/or other estrogenic chemicals.
54 replies
Beer is for GIRLSFlowers are for men
Or for everyone if you're a woke lib who thinks women can appreciate flowers.
My wife buys me flowers and it makes me feel really special. She doesn't care for flowers at all, but she knows that I do, which makes me appreciate that much more that she'd pick out and pay for something that only I like.
i eat beans i drink beans i chew beans i shit beans. when did we switch to eating flowers?
Also hops contains a powerful phytoestrogen iirc
Explains my moobs.
Funny. But for real, phytoestrogens have really been slandered by masculine culture so afraid of anything femme.
Phytoestrogens, like those found in soy, actually make the body produce less estrogen and tend to help regulate estrogen hormonal production.
It does not just make you more feminine and make it harder to get strong unlike most manosphere peeps believe about "soyboys." I wonder if the phytoestrogens in beer are the same way.
But hops have Alpha acids, which obviously makes you an alpha male. Checkmate atheists.
Where's that banana-dick pastor these days?
Absolutely massacred this meme
This comment is way too far down.
You can keep your bread-flavored soda. My water is flavored with ROCKS (minerals added for taste).
I wish it was bread-flavored. Bread doesn't usually taste like bitter herbs.
May I recommend kvass?
fuck that i love rye *downvote*
But rye doesn't have any bitter herbs ...
There's actually so little actual Rye left after distillation that whiskey is gluten free. (Beer is not)
Rye isn't bitter?
Rye kernels and rye bread, sure, but not rye spirit. Bitter aromas generally don't make it through the distillation process. Rye whiskey does have a lot of oak tannins, but it shares that property with bourbon. I would agree that bourbon tastes somewhat "sweeter" than rye, but it's a subtle difference.
Also, rye is a grain, not a herb.
Try the Russian bread water (Kwas) in your local eastern European grocer.
Ah a nice Chablis in summer is so refreshing!
Slightly chilled, bubbly flower water is good, but what about some hot bush water, or hot seed water.
I'll stick my my hot leaf juice
How could a member of my own family say something so horrible?!
I also like to breathe hot leaf aroma, though from a different leaf.
Seems quite a few people really like hot ground up roasted cherry pit water.
I'm pretty sure that's the 'hot seed water', since technically coffee berries are not cherries and the 'bean' isn't a pit, it's a seed.
That could easily be hot chocolate as well. Like how Strawberries aren’t berries, they are still called coffee cherries even though they aren’t.
I could go for some hot bush water.
Kate Bush bath water?
Watermelon sugar high.
Hey, hops seems to have phytoestrgens like soy, so all beerdrinkers are soyboys too, eheh.
Hops have a much more potent phytoestrogen than soy, 8-PN. Both are negligible compared to cows milk though.
My mum still believes that soy milk will make me grow tits because of the big milk propaganda.
Oh wow, this cow milk reference is gold.
grass and flower fermented herbal tea
I like to call IPAs "potpourri beer".
Thats what I call Blue Moon. That stuff smells/tastes just like the potpourri my mom had when I was a kid.
IPA: If Pinecones were Alcohol.
IPA : Beer? No I wanted a shitty lemonade.
In the immortal words of Larry Flynt, pink is a real man's favorite color!
Beer is basically flower juice. Also, I'm still non-binary, I prefer gender-neutral and feminine terms, and I will transition in the future. Seriously!
Flavored with a parent plant from the Marijuana
Now do gin....
Opium...
Yes, please.
Flavonoids as Phytoestrogenic Components of Hops and Beer https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7570471/
The Effects of the Hops Phytoestrogen in Beer on Breast Cancer Risk https://nutritionfacts.org/blog/the-effects-of-the-hops-phytoestrogen-in-beer-on-breast-cancer-risk/ tl/dr - beer because of the ethanol, and 8-PN from hops, which is a selective estrogen receptor alpha promoter is proliferative on breast cells thus increasing breast cancer risk. And at the same time lowers risk for osteoporosis.
Tho' some sources (https://www.greenskybio.com/hops_extract/37420.html) say 8-PN exists at extremely low concentrations in beer as it is served.
I thought phytoestrogens didn't affect humans?
They dont effect your mammalian estrogen levels, but they do have an effect on you like every chemical you ingest.
The second link says it affects estrogen levels though, which is why I'm confused.
Is this new research?
Edit: the corroborating link the article provides doesn't really show much about how the study was conducted
Editedit: found what they were citing, but it's from the 90s, so it's very much not new, and it doesn't actually support what the article is claiming.
The studies described in the previous sections strongly support the hypothesis that congeners present in alcoholic beverages can produce measurable estrogenic effects, even at moderate drinking levels. Specifically, those studies found the following:
Alcoholic beverage congeners exerted estrogenic effects both in an experimental animal model and in post-menopausal women.
The estrogenic effects of alcoholic beverage congeners were detectable using a variety of estrogenic markers, including the pituitary hormones LH (in OVEX rats and postmenopausal women), FSH, and prolactin (in postmenopausal women); uterus weight (in OVEX rats); and the estrogen-responsive liver proteins HDL cholesterol and SHBG (in postmenopausal women).
In both the experimental animals and the postmenopausal women, the changes in the levels of all estrogenic markers were consistent with the presence of biologically active phytoestrogens in the congeners.
Red wine congeners and bourbon congeners produced similar estrogenic effects in experimental animals and in postmenopausal women.
Right, so all of this indicates that phytoestrogens indeed do have effects on mice and human estrogen related physiology. The effects can be a little puzzling, though. As I understand it, there are two types of estrogen receptors, Alpha and Beta. And there are many phytoestrogens as well as estrogenic chemicals that we are exposed to, with the one's in beer binding to Estrogen Receptor Alpha, which signals breast cells and breast cancer cells to proliferate. The binding affinity of the phytoestrogens is weaker than that of the endogenous estrogen. None the less when a given phytoestrogen is bound to a given receptor it gives a slightly weaker estrogen-like signal, and simultaneously prevents the binding of the endogenous estrogen (can't fit two keys into a single lock at the same time), which has a stronger affinty, and thus stronger effect when it is bound to the receptor. So in an individual with lots of estrogen, the phytoestrogen may lower the estrogenic signal, and in someone with less estrogen it may augment the estrogenic signal in the body. Does that make sense? Do you have questions?
Why does beer keep getting singled out when red wine and bourbon produce similar effects?
Edit: Also a bit peeved, because I've got hashimotos and talked to a dietician about diet affecting my hormone troubles, and they assured me plant hormones didn't have an effect on humans.
No clue, not really sure it's the case that beer is being singled out. The original post was about beer. We could talk about the other phytoestrogens, and/or other estrogenic chemicals.
Socrates: these flowers taste like burning
Yes and tomato is a fruit.