'Rebellion!' Stephen Miller flips out after Dems tell troops to 'refuse illegal orders'
This guy...
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98 replies
Its literally your job to refuse an illegal order as a US service member.
thank god we take the oath the constitution and not goblin himmler
It does, however, require you to swear or affirm that you will follow the orders of the President, and the UCMJ puts the onus on the accusing service member to prove that an order is unlawful. It's a lot to ask of service members that likely only joined because they needed college money.
I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God)."
Edit: Ya'll are right, I didn't realize the officer oath excluded the "following orders" bit.
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services)
LAWFUL ORDERS.
Look, you don't need a JAG officer on standby to know you're not supposed to open up on a crowd of fuckin kids. This really isn't the ambiguous terrain you're making it out to be.
Would it be better to have an executive branch that wasn't a fucking traitorous pile of garbage? OF COURSE.
And we don't have to say "so help me god" unless we want to. Affirming your oath is fine.
Plus if the order that has made its way down to enlisted in such a way that the enlisted has to determine if it's illegal or not, then theres a bigger problem.
If officers can give the order to hold any return fire, then they can also give the order to do something that is not illegal.
Chain of command is a powerful structure
valid. that kind of deception to the rank and file is what we're seeing with the unlawful attacks right now.
This administration is built on the concept of gradually but continually pushing the boundaries of what's legal. First it's using federal troops to guard CBP as they violate constitutional rights, then it's murdering unnamed persons in boats in the Caribbean. Next will be something just a little bit more illegal, and eventually there may come a day where there's something as clear cut as opening up on a crowd of kids. But by then, how are a few troops supposed to prove that this is illegal while not speaking up about whatever they did last? Not to mention the longer this goes on the more they organize the command structure by loyalty over competence.
I don't think we can rely on waiting for a clear cut example like yours, people in power need to be pushing back now or it will be too late
is it the caribbean? I think of it as the golf of stupidity....
The creep you're describing - I think the us military institutions can survive an admin of that without total failure, but that's the miltiary. ICE is rapidly becoming a paramilitary strong point with funding rivaling actual services, staffed with proudboys and 3% types (and apparently, as recently caught, pedophiles) that I worry about more than the Enlisted and NCOs of the services.
I think. I can certainly be wrong. And none of this should be happening in the first place, this isn't something we should have to consider at all, but thanks to spineless fuckwit republicans covering him, his treason, his insurrection, his lies and crimes, here we are.
They have to infiltrate as many orgs as they can to get around the separation of powers system. But yeah ICE seems particularly bad.
The problem is that the UCMJ puts the onus on the "accuser" to prove that the order was unlawful. It's an awful lot to ask of a public servant. The whole situation sucks.
as I said, would it be better to have an executive branch that wasn't a traitorous pile of garbage? Yes.
100%
Agreed, but the order is not always so clearly unlawful. You pretty much do need a lawyer on standby to challenge violations of Posse Comitatus. It is the servicemember's duty to refuse to conduct domestic law enforcement activities like deportation, for example, but they can be required to support those same activities in other ways.
What was ambiguous to you? Also I said that. You must swear or affirm. I personally chose to affirm when I took my oath of enlistment.
Your example? Sure. Almost certainly unlawful. It's an extreme though. How about shooting civilian vessels in international waters? That's more vague. How about shooting American citizens who are accused of attacking federal officers?
Yes, there are some situations that are pretty unambiguously illegal. Most orders will have some kind of argument behind them that they're illegal, however dubious that may be. It won't be as clear as your example most likely.
Unfortunately Fox has been screaming that the kids/Dems are traitors for 20 years now. And that Patriots something something. I don't think a little ceremony is going to undo decades of brainwashing to hate libs.
you do realize there's a difference between your grandparents and the US military command structure, right?
yeah, there are some conservative types, and religious conservative types in the service, but they're far outnumbered by the people just doing the job. and people who serve have a much better idea of how hypocritical that rhetoric is coming from a bucket of traitor monkeys like faux news.
and I know conservatives who recognize it's nothing more than a propaganda mill for the GOP. cynically, they don't stop supporting it, but everyone knows.
I love messages that start with snark.
You do realize that people are individuals, right?
Yeah there are some intellectuals, and some that understand their oaths, but they're far outnumbered by the people that joined the military because they had no options. And people that watch Fox 24/7 generationally who know a libtard when they see them and hate them so much and know better than their nerdy superior.
Last actual point: Don't confuse officer command with the masses of soldiers that have watched Fox 24/7. The officers may know and may not follow, but many soldiers (not all, because why do I think I have to put in all the caveats) are lets just say entirely different. Like if you think it's only grandparents being swayed by Fox then I have no words. Ok I'm out.
yeah you seem like a real gem.
yeah you move out high speed, we'll call you when we need you. pfft.
That's the enlisted oath, the officer's oath has no such obligation.
Ahh, I was enlisted so I didn't know that the officer's oath excludes the "following orders" bit.
Yeah, one of those things I learned after getting out too.
Its not the best production value, but I helped put this together last year:
https://youtu.be/HsrwIJcxYWY?t=529
Thank you for sharing! Added it to my watch list.
Officers do NOT follow unlawful orders.
Period ... see the period? That ended the sentence.
That's what my dad always told me when I was growing up as a brat; refusing to obey an illegal order isn't a choice, it's a requirement. You must not follow illegal orders, if you do you are committing a crime.
Also a brat who spent around 16 years growing up on various military bases...... The problem with this idea is the expectation that enlisted men are knowledgeable enough to recognize an illegal order, while simultaneously being stupid enough to put their necks on the line to refuse a direct order from an officer.
In the military as an enlisted man, you are guilty until proven innocent. It would be easier to get off knowingly participating in a war crime than to knowingly refuse an illegal order.
The idea that American servicemen are trained to recognize and refuse illegal order is a fallacy. My dad did 26 years as an enlisted man and eventually made chief, he will openly admit to having zero faith in the US military ability to do the right thing.
The rules are there to ensure the proles are the ones always getting the short end of the stick.
Oh yeah, dad did say that he wasn't taught anything like that until he went to OTS.
Rebellion!
Sadly, only sort of: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TwPLqGkYnBA
I mean I've worked directly with ACLU lawyers on this matter, and have organized with the original members of the appeal for redress.
I went so far as to organize this panel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsrwIJcxYWY&t=529s
Where we brought on lawyers, historians, other veterans, and political commentators, all of whom had specific experience (as in, had been involved in a military court in some manner) around the relationship around disobeying illegal orders.
And yeah. I stand by the point I made. As a service member you are legally obligated to disobey illegal orders.
If you're saying "refuse illegal orders" is a rebellion that's uh...preeeetty telling on what sort of orders you're planning on giving.
This. I don't think Miller knows just how much his own side doesn't like him. He does have people over him with more power who keep him around because he's useful, and they protect him because he's useful, but once he's outlived his usefulness, they'll wash their hands of him.
Basically like a bunch of gangsters. I fucking hate these shiteaters.
If it walks like a Stephen Miller and quacks like a Stephen Miller, it is probably a nazi.
I don't know whether Stephen Miller quacks, but I am pretty sure that he goose steps.
He, also suffers from the same genital defects as Hitler. Fun fact.
::sigh:: I don't want details, but what defects?
You know, I dislike this rhetoric, cause as a small penis haver I'm still not inclined to be a nazi. But I get it, I'm an outlier lol
An admission that orders issued soon will be illegal
Already are
Also true
Still are, used to too.
Miller fails to recognize the Nuremberg Trials, Following illegal orders is inexcusable in a courtroom.
Instructions unclear, all courtrooms have been demolished.
Then a drum head court will be established...
That mouth looks like it does the same things as Trump’s mouth
Rapes women and children or the sucking presidential dick?
Yes.
It's a short article that's mostly his quotes, worth the read.
Is Stephen Miller A Sociopath? Examining His Controversial Actions And Rhetoric
Signs And Symptoms
Identifying sociopathy involves recognizing specific signs and symptoms. Here are common indicators:
Disregard for Laws and Social Norms ✅
Sociopaths often ignore rules and boundaries, engaging in illegal or unethical behaviors without remorse.
Frequent Lying ✅
Sociopaths tell lies with ease, using them to gain trust or manipulate others. They may present a false image of themselves to achieve their goals.
Inability to Form Lasting Relationships ✅
Sociopaths struggle to maintain deep relationships, often viewing others as tools for personal benefit.
Easily Bored ✅
Sociopaths frequently seek new thrills. This need for stimulation can lead to risky behavior and frequent changes in jobs or relationships.
Hostility and Irritability ✅
Sociopaths may exhibit aggressive behaviors when challenged or threatened, leading to conflicts in various settings.
Personally, a user made summary or even just copy pasting some of the more compelling bullet points would be preferable to AI summary.
It’s copied directly from the article.
Weird, I scrolled through but didn’t see any of the ✅emojis and assumed it was. Either way, my bad.
Emojis and links added for effect :)
Haha shit, how embarrassing for me.
Always lovely how on Fox news you can twist words, twist reality, outright lie, it's all fine, because as they claim themselves z they're not a news channel but an entertainment channel. Even sued the government to be able to lie...
And these magats just eat it up like cupcakes
Good soldiers know they are fighting for the constitution and the american citizenry. I don't think we need to be worried about Stefan Mueller for too much longer.
At some point we'll learn how similar they really are
Miller has a face that makes it clear he has a micro penis
Mhm. Resting dickless face.
… a cephalodick, you say?
He looks like a horizontally-compressed Mussolini.
I challenged Stephen Miller to a fist fight, but that chicken fucker didn’t respond.
Nah. I challenged him because I’m sure I can easily win. I’m a 5’4” woman who doesn’t exercise. I’m confident I can make him cry.
Why not a tag team wrestling match? I'll be on your side.
Let’s go!! I’m in!
"Rebellion!" Screams the chronic angry man who is giving illegal orders that would be treason, regardless of who is giving the order.
It's pretty fucked up that we're at the point of relying on service members to decide that an order is unlawful. The Uniform Code of Military Justice doesn't exactly side with the military members in this instance, but it also doesn't explicitly prohibit it. Here are some crib notes from the US Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces.
If chain of command is always followed, then the orders will be neutered before they can be carried out.
While any superior officer can circumvent subordinates, as far as I understand it, this would be highly unusual, insulting, and self-disparaging. Technically Miller himself could give the orders to specific troops to carry out, but as soon as his orders are issued, the troops commanding officer can belay those and issue their own.
There is a reason tyrants don't like chain of command.
Edit: Stephen Miller is just Policy Chief of Staff. Basically a talking head at this point. No actual ability to give orders
Miller isn't in the military chain of command.
Ahhhh you're right. I was thinking of Pete Hegeseth.
So Miller is just being a whiny baby.
They need to make Miller sit down in an austere interrogation room with only a recording of Charlie Kirk talking about how executions need to be televised and force children to watch.
And over that audio recording an AI video of... well... whatever is it you imagine it should be.
After all this is over and Stephen Miller is placed under arrest or whatever else it may be, I will celebrate in the streets.
That will never happen unless we the people force it to happen.
Raving lunatic
He‘s wrong on so many levels. He doesn’t even get the name of the party right. It’s the Democrat_**ic **_ party.
They do that deliberately. You see that a lot among Republicans. I assume it's similar motivations as when they say the US is "a republic, not a democracy". Apparently it irks them that they have democracy in the name.
Yeah, I know. It seems so childish.
They have been doing it for decades. I'm fairly certain Newt got them to do it as part of his intentional strategy to divide Washington (then, in lockstep, all these fuckers started talking about how "divisive" Obama is, imagine that) with his GOPAC training.
But it predates even that by decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
It annoys me because every time I hear some brat of a Republican in a high position use it, they sound exactly like that stupid kid that knew that "ain't" is not a word, but they'd say it anyway to annoy teachers (or anyone that knows the English language, really). Or when you hear someone who has probably been corrected a thousand times on words like "supposedly" still say "supposably".
It just sounds like a defiant jackass demonstrating the Peter principle.
I wish to Zeus that reporters would make a pact to ALL start asking Republicans that do this simple questions such as: "You don't know the proper name of the DemocratIC Party?" or "Surely you know the name is the DemocratIC Party? Why don't you say the right name?" or "Do realize how childish your entire party comes off when you cannot even say 'the DemocratIC Party'?"
Really just shame these motherfuckers. At every chance when they do this. I wish Democratic Senators and Reps would do it on the floor, too. Same with guests on outlets like Faux, because Faux does it, too.
It's not a huge thing, but the complete childishness of the Republicans ALL doing it nearly uniformly should be pointed out as the childish and juvenile bullshit that it is.
Oh Stephen miller is in the news?
Perfect! Over a year old but by God there's no better Stephen miller interview.
https://youtu.be/BW4XLBCGLH8
Only watch if you want to see Stephen miller shoutting getting red in the face yelling at a very calm persistent venezuelan journalist.
I don't know how to archive videos on x, but here it is: https://x.com/SenatorSlotkin/status/1990774492356902948
https://xcancel.com/SenatorSlotkin/status/1990774492356902948
xcancel gives me a 404 error for some reason. Thanks for the link.
Troops don't have Trumpy immunity, they should tread carefully when ordered to violate the constitution while orange Hitler bypasses congress in his new wars
ᛋᛋtephen Miller is a piece of shit
Classic FOX blaming the "Democrats" from the civil war, which were in fact what we call today Republicans.
The sexual matador really wants to go full Nazi.
It is illegal to not break the law under the Trump administration.
How can service members be confident enough that the order is illegal, to refuse it, or believe adhering to their oath offers any protection from retaliation?
The Great White Worm has spoken!
Didn't they already downplay the whole insurrection thing? Hard to take these clowns seriously.
Our insurrection was invading the capital with the intention of killing the Vice President!
Your insurrection is telling the army it is okay to refuse to attack US citizens!
Well, I don't think this makes any difference. Half of US soldiers' and their families' lives depend fully on the money from their service. The other half are sadists and psychopaths, either from the start or became so during their time in the military. How many of them realistically want to and/or are able to refuse orders?
Furthermore, I'm curious how many soldiers even realize they are legally protected if they refuse illegal orders, and would be prosecuted for following them. I wouldn't be surprised if this topic was conveniently skipped or covered very briefly during new recruits' training and classes.
The UCMJ is a huge part of training and members know they are able to refuse unlawful orders. The trouble is distinguishing what is unlawful. They certainly don’t have international law degrees and nobody can be fully up to speed on all treaties and mutual aid agreements.