I think esports are real sports not because I think video games are as meaningful as physical sports, but because I think physical sports are as meaningless as video games. It's all just playing with toys.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to sink a few more hours into that new Katamari hotness.
I did a paper on this in college and if the Olympic committee deems chess as a “mental sport” then I sure and shit think esports can be considered a real sport too
There's a lot of grey area in that distinction though. There's a handful of Olympic sports that showcase fine motor control in ways that aren't that different from esports. Fencing and shooting are in the same realm as an RTS or FPS.
So is gaming at the extremely high level. A best of 5 or 7 in SC2 is 45 minutes to an hour and a half of focus with multiple periods of extreme focus and reaction. In both cases actions are happening faster than average humans can observe.
i just wanted to state, that i see quite a big difference between shooting, which is mainly fine motor control and focus on the one side and fencing, where the athletes need quite a big physical endurence and good body control and strength. Esports are maybe more like shooting in this regard, but you also need a high mental endurance, since matches can get quite long in some disciplines. (At least in CS, which is pretty much the only esport i watch from time to time)
If chess can be a mental sport there's no way in hell that Starcraft isn't. The mindgames and insane amount of instant control and choice making is crazy. Sure professional chess players attempt to go as quickly as possible but they could take their time if they wanted in Starcraft a fraction of a second can be the difference between winning or losing in a battle that you are controlling hundreds of variables
I'll bite. If you want to pick a singular thing to point at and say it's ruined gaming you should be more upset about micro transactions, especially those in mobile gaming. We live in an era where so many people have a device that is physically more capable than the handheld gaming devices of the past but the entire mobile gaming market is just slop meant to be addictive and extract as much money from you as possible. Imagine a world where Nintendo was making mainline Pokémon games for phones. What if X, Y, Sun, and Moon weren't made for the 3ds but for phones (or both).
Honestly, in a way, (ubiquitous fast) internet ruined gaming. When you had to buy physical disks, there was no way to continuously monetize a game. Studios had to make new good games and they did.
Back then, there were awesome games for phones as well. I still have an old phone with just to keep galaxy on fire 2. N.O.V.A. 2 was basically Halo game on phones. Before that, there was awesome java games for dumb phones.
You provide physical inputs, which are sensitive to timing and agility, to a rule-based competition. It's at least as much a sport as golf or curling or bowling. And I say that as someone who doesn't find eSports particularly compelling. It requires a sophisticated technal infrastructure and doesn't require superhuman levels of strength or endurance (though the latter in particular could be helpful), but those are merely "sliders on the configuration screen" for whether a certain sport is to your interest.
Huh. Not much a part of my identity these days, but in a yes/no sense, yeah I guess so, LOL. Of course, these days most gym bros are doing some gaming too.
LOL, are you trying to keep me from derailing a shitpost thread where I'm rehashing the boring online debate that inspired it! How dare you!!!!! What are you? Some kind of Michael?
My rule for considering it a sport is: anyone should be able to play it if they have everything needed. It's impossible to be banned from a sport (banned from tournaments is not the same thing) - if you want to play, you play. If you want to make custom rules just for you and your friends, you make them and then play. Nobody can own the rights to a sport (again, not the same as that sport's tournament). No company can ever stop others from making money with a specific sport.
If you have any kind of ball you can play soccer. If you have anything that can represent chess pieces, you can play chess. If you have a kart you can have a race...
So can videogames be considered sport? Perhaps some can, but anything that requires access to a specific company's private servers is out of the question. I'm not even gonna argue that the game should be open source, but at the very least it should have a way for anyone to spin up their own server for it.
Meta comment: Why would a simple semantic disagreement/misunderstanding cause this much friction? Because it's not about semantics, but about hurt feelings and pecking order.
60 replies
I think esports are real sports not because I think video games are as meaningful as physical sports, but because I think physical sports are as meaningless as video games. It's all just playing with toys.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to sink a few more hours into that new Katamari hotness.
If video games had been invented before football, parents would be horrified that people were actually hitting each other for sport.
I did a paper on this in college and if the Olympic committee deems chess as a “mental sport” then I sure and shit think esports can be considered a real sport too
Ok then mental sports need to have their own separate Olympics.
Because Olympics originated as a competitive showcase of the world's peak physical prowess.
There's a lot of grey area in that distinction though. There's a handful of Olympic sports that showcase fine motor control in ways that aren't that different from esports. Fencing and shooting are in the same realm as an RTS or FPS.
I agree with you on shooting. But fencing seems to be quite physical.
So is gaming at the extremely high level. A best of 5 or 7 in SC2 is 45 minutes to an hour and a half of focus with multiple periods of extreme focus and reaction. In both cases actions are happening faster than average humans can observe.
i just wanted to state, that i see quite a big difference between shooting, which is mainly fine motor control and focus on the one side and fencing, where the athletes need quite a big physical endurence and good body control and strength. Esports are maybe more like shooting in this regard, but you also need a high mental endurance, since matches can get quite long in some disciplines. (At least in CS, which is pretty much the only esport i watch from time to time)
(tongue-in-cheeck devil's advocate)
And everyone knows the best way to do things is never change them. Like music, and bigoted voting rights.
If chess can be a mental sport there's no way in hell that Starcraft isn't. The mindgames and insane amount of instant control and choice making is crazy. Sure professional chess players attempt to go as quickly as possible but they could take their time if they wanted in Starcraft a fraction of a second can be the difference between winning or losing in a battle that you are controlling hundreds of variables
My name is not Micheal 🤔
Hi not Michael
Hi maybe Michael
Hi Michael(?)
Hello everyone. Although I prefer Mike, my given name is Michael.
It would be weird if it were, I've never met a Micheal before.
Esports ruined gaming, change my mind (impossible)
I'll bite. If you want to pick a singular thing to point at and say it's ruined gaming you should be more upset about micro transactions, especially those in mobile gaming. We live in an era where so many people have a device that is physically more capable than the handheld gaming devices of the past but the entire mobile gaming market is just slop meant to be addictive and extract as much money from you as possible. Imagine a world where Nintendo was making mainline Pokémon games for phones. What if X, Y, Sun, and Moon weren't made for the 3ds but for phones (or both).
You're not wrong. Microtransactions ruined gaming, too. :P
Dark patterns too.
Honestly, in a way, (ubiquitous fast) internet ruined gaming. When you had to buy physical disks, there was no way to continuously monetize a game. Studios had to make new good games and they did.
Back then, there were awesome games for phones as well. I still have an old phone with just to keep galaxy on fire 2. N.O.V.A. 2 was basically Halo game on phones. Before that, there was awesome java games for dumb phones.
You can argue that enabled bad practices but it also enabled many good things in gaming.
Yes.
Now that's a WILD take.
You provide physical inputs, which are sensitive to timing and agility, to a rule-based competition. It's at least as much a sport as golf or curling or bowling. And I say that as someone who doesn't find eSports particularly compelling. It requires a sophisticated technal infrastructure and doesn't require superhuman levels of strength or endurance (though the latter in particular could be helpful), but those are merely "sliders on the configuration screen" for whether a certain sport is to your interest.
Michael probably agrees.
Clearly you are a Gamer
Huh. Not much a part of my identity these days, but in a yes/no sense, yeah I guess so, LOL. Of course, these days most gym bros are doing some gaming too.
I meant based on the limited data we have in the comic. If you believe gamings a sport: gamer, I'd not: not a gamer if Michael: Michael
LOL, are you trying to keep me from derailing a shitpost thread where I'm rehashing the boring online debate that inspired it! How dare you!!!!! What are you? Some kind of Michael?
HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!!
Are they being targeted?
Counterexample: Chess
Counterpoint, you can categorize chess as a game and not a sport while still acknowledging it's difficult and worthwhile.
My name is also Michael. Hi Michael. Nice name.
hi michael. i'm also michael. wanna get married, adopt a kid and name them michael?
Hi Michaels. I'm also Michael.
Let's form a Michael thruple, adopt thousands of children named Michael, and kill everyone that refuses to change their names to Michael.
Who is this Michale you speak of? They must be eliminated.
If chess is part of the olympics then videogames should be too
The Olympics shouldn't exist as they are now in the first place.
It should go back to the original 5 or 7 events. Including the running in hoplite armour, and triple jumps with weights.
And the naked part?
Gotta be wearing a kynodesme to be modest.
That should just go without saying. No female athletes, just oiled up twinks and gym bros frolicking in a field naked for weeks. /S
And winners from Athens get free dinners for life
My rule for considering it a sport is: anyone should be able to play it if they have everything needed. It's impossible to be banned from a sport (banned from tournaments is not the same thing) - if you want to play, you play. If you want to make custom rules just for you and your friends, you make them and then play. Nobody can own the rights to a sport (again, not the same as that sport's tournament). No company can ever stop others from making money with a specific sport.
If you have any kind of ball you can play soccer. If you have anything that can represent chess pieces, you can play chess. If you have a kart you can have a race...
So can videogames be considered sport? Perhaps some can, but anything that requires access to a specific company's private servers is out of the question. I'm not even gonna argue that the game should be open source, but at the very least it should have a way for anyone to spin up their own server for it.
Hmm. I'm all three.
THE CHOSEN ONE
Gymer Bro Michael
They would be sport if they were something like Chessboxing.
Yeahhhh let's go Most Common Boy's Name in the Year I Was Born 🤘
Right? There is almost always another Michael nearby.
I agree with the two guys on the right.
If tennis and riding a bicycle are sports then so is gaming.
So they are not sports
Im cool with tennis and cycling.
Darts pisses me off.
Tennis is a pretty sporty sport though.
As a lifelong gamer and avid cyclist, I completely agree.
Meta comment: Why would a simple semantic disagreement/misunderstanding cause this much friction? Because it's not about semantics, but about hurt feelings and pecking order.