Spain restarts push to kill daylight saving time in EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-sanchez-restarts-push-eu-finally-end-daylight-saving-time/Open linkView original on mander.xyz815
Comments194https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-sanchez-restarts-push-eu-finally-end-daylight-saving-time/Open linkView original on mander.xyz
Yes, please, do it already!
Years ago, the EU parliament decided to abandon DST - with a vast majority. They sent it to the governments as "Homework" to determine whether to keep Summer- or Standard Time. Nothing came out of it.
The EU parliament didn't vote to abandon DST, they voted for letting countries decide if they want to do DST or if they want to stick to one time zone. Apparently most countries decided to stick with DST.
They were asking for feedback and I sure wrote a bunch and sent an email or wtv it was supporting the idea of killing it please for yesterday.
They should obviously keep standard time. No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I would 100% rather light at 10pm than 4am where it's totally wasted.
Current light breakdown in Ireland over the year:
I always forget how far north a lot of Europe is. The fact Dublin is further north than most Canadian major cities throws me for a loop
Yeah it's one of those weird map oddities that's more noticeable on a globe.
We are mega fucked here if the gulf of Mexico ever stops sending us that warm water goodness.
You mean the Gulf of America? /s
Gulf of release the Epstein files
It's actually the Atlantic Ocean arm of the Oceanic Conveyor Belt bringing to Europe warm waters from Africa.
The only relation with the Gulf Of Mexico is that the western side of that current (which goes in the opposite direction, so North -> South, along the Eastern Northern and Southern America) passes alongside it.
Literally the plot of "The Day after Tomorrow" although the movie is ridiculously over the top of course
The movie takes a real mechanism, a plausible concern, then cranks the intensity of the issue to eleven and uses that exaggerated catastrophe as foundation for its setting. It's absurd in magnitude, but not in premise.
Idk what you want since you're only getting about 4 hours of night in the summer. You gotta just waste some daylight when you live that far north
DST basically robs you of useful outdoors time in summer. Want to spend some time outside after work? You can’t because of the scorching hot sun. Thanks to DST it’s time for bed by the time it has cooled down enough to be outside. Of course by then it’s still too hot to sleep so you’re fucked anyway. By the time it has cooled down enough to sleep it’s almost time to get up again.
If we want to move the clock then we should move it backwards in summer instead of forwards. That way we get more time in the evening where it’s nice to be outdoors, we get to sleep when it has cooled down a bit more. In the morning the sun would be up earlier but blackout curtains solve that issue, and temperature lags behind the sun anyway so we get to sleep in the least hot part of the night.
DST is the worst invention ever.
nah, I want to see the stars without having to stay up late, and light until 10pm would mess with my body's schedule
I do
I stand corrected. People seem to love evening sunlight
I live in Spain, having light at 11 pm is pretty cool.
You live in the western end of your time zone, and at a pretty high latitude. That's the only way to get sunset after 10pm. Your summer sunrise must be about 3am. And you must only see about 5 hours of daylight during winter.
If you are experiencing sunset 2 hours before midnight, the eastern end of your time zone is experiencing sunrise two hours after midnight. Nobody wants sunrise at 2am.
I would say that you should not be in your time zone. Your region should be in the next time zone to the west. Their DST schedule is your standard time schedule.
Alternatively, there is nothing stopping the eastern end of your time zone from joining the next zone to the east, so that their year-round clocks make more sense for them.
Any viable plan to lock the clocks is going to have to include provisions for our regions to select the time zone we want to use.
They don't have to be far west for sunset at 22 (with DST as I think you missed), just far enough north. With 6 hours of night in the summer, the centre of the timezone will have nighttime from 22 to 4.
"far enough north" for this effect is above 59° latitude, and doesn't include places like Iceland that don't observe DST. The population density above 59° is a rounding error above zero.
The only place to reach it in the southern hemisphere is Antarctica itself and a few islands.
Their votes and opinions certainly count, but the rest of the world should not be forced to use a bad time system just to appease the very few who live that high. Especially when they have other alternatives available to resolve their problem.
The overwhelming majority of people who experience this effect of DST are on the west end of their current time zones at a much lower latitude.
Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg would like a word...
What are you on about? I’m at 52º North and from May 20th until the 25th of July there is no night at all. Best we get is about 3 hours of astronomical twilight.
What you have to realise is that according to them, half of Europe is a rounding error when it comes to discussing Europe specific problems.
DST is hardly specific to Europe.
Remember to default to "they" and not "he" for people with unknown pronouns and unknown gender
My bad, fixed. Thanks for keeping me vigilant.
It is a bit more complicated. Back in the time (no pun intended) they made a mess by putting most of Europe in one time zone, from west of Spain to east of Poland. Which is 9° west to 28° east, more than 2 and a half time zones. Technically, Europe should split into at least two time zones. And this is going to be a mess.
Light at 10pm isn't useful, but neither is light at 4am
Dawn at 5:30 or later would be best
On the other hand, if we had not saved daylight we would have probably ran out by now.
It's "have run," not "have ran." Thanks for coming to my TURD Talk.
TIL https://www.quora.com/Which-is-correct-Ive-ran-out-of-or-Ive-run-out-of
A lot of people have started using simple past tense for all perfect tenses lately, but I don't like change, dangit.
Yeah I mostly learned English watching Cartoon Network, when it wasn't with subtitles or dubbed. They basically started airing in the Netherlands and an entire generation learned English by watching cartoons after school.
This is now repeating with YouTube and teens watching a lot of English youtubers.
I miss those days, Dexter's laboratory, Dragonball Z, two stupid dogs...
Beam me up Scotty!
i can make arguments for both cases;
PRO-SIMPLE FORM:
Perfect forms of verbs are redundant: Simple past tense doesn't have an auxiliary verb anyway so you can already differentiate it from perfect or passive cases when you use it with have or be respectively.
Easier to learn one variation of each verb than two
PRO-PERFECT FORM:
but also:
which kind of tips the scales I think. perfect forms are already inconsistent, and verbs with identical forms already prove there's no significant loss in not having a distinct perfect form. I was gonna add "can be used alone and carry its own meaning (eg drunk)" as a bullet point in favor of perfect forms but regular verbs with no distinct perfect form can also be used alone and still carry the meaning (eg beloved)
so yeah I think distinct perfect forms are on their way out, long term.
I heard there’s more car crashes in the morning if you get rid of daylight savings time
I heard the opposite though
I heard a lot of things surrounding daylight savings, but I belive that it's just bad for us.
YES FINALLY!
Funny coincidence that they started doing that after i commited myself to life in winter time for ever. Wake up at 5 summer time and 6 winter time
It's about time.
No. It's one hour too early.
Not a minute too late!
It doesn't even matter which they pick, just pick one! We're free to live our lives independently from the clock. There's no natural law that states work starts at 8.
Isn't the most important industry dependent(photosynthesis doesn't wait for you) on the clock? I guess you mean the numbers we choose don't really matter, then I agree.
Yes, it could say alpha for all I care. As you say, the sun dictates the day, not our clock, but the grindset is so entrenched that it's easier to change clocks than individual work settings.
If Spain chooses to continue to synchronize opening hours with central Europe, they can do that regardless of what the number on the clock is.
What's the "logical" time zone?
The one closer to Spanish solar time, or the one shared by most EU countries, which facilitates trade and cross-border cooperation?
We don't have our current time zone because of that. We have it because a fascist dictator wanted to be on the same time zone as Hitler.
And the logical timezone is of course GMT, the one closer to Spanish solar time. It's been proven that it's not healthy to be in a timezone that doesn't correspond to your solar time, unless you adapt all the schedules to follow the sun.
Then adapt the schedules without making every cross-border interaction artificially messier
Pick real time and let people adjust their schedules. It's easier and the science backs it up.
And have to put up with Bill Maher? No thanks.
Solar time.
UTC for all.
Man that would fucking blow for so many people.
The date would change in the middle of a business day
Live service game enjoyers everywhere: yourfirsttimequestionmark.gif
People who work night shift:
Fun fact: In some countries you can say "see you tomorrow" when going for lunch.
Like it changes at midnight?
I mean that’s not really the issue
The issue is like restaurants opening for dinner at 7AM and such
It would be a big cultural shift
Like if midnight was the middle of your solar day (and work day) like it would be in many countries, it'd be pretty tricky for a lot of things.
I see it as a giant hammer of a solution. The times you could just get used to be the day shift in the middle of stuff seems tough to me
Store hours:
Monday 20-24
Tuesday 0-6, 20-24
Etc
Or perhaps
Monday 20-06 Tuesday 20-06
But like bank transactions, rent being due on a certain day, like it all becomes tough in my opinion. Nevermind all the code that would be insanely broken
Actually code would probably be the easiest thing. Unless it's very badly programmed computers don't care about what the actual date is, the care how many seconds have passed.
The hardest thing to reprogram would be human culture. I suspect there would be massive pushback against the idea.
I agree, but I think that 80% of the code I've seen in my life that isn't based on OS time would be very broken. Factory automation and the like.
A fixable problem, but again largely unnecessary one imo
I hate DST though and think that either summer or winter time permanently would both be better than switching
Bars already have schedules like that and it’s not an issue
You can add time to due dates to. It wouldn’t be that problematic. Or just keep the day only
At the mere mention of changing the summer time, you get all bar and restaurant people shouting to not touch it.
But actually we're in the wrong time zone too, so summer time is actually just having office hours from 07:00 to 15:00 solar time but with more lying.
What's preferred by Europeans, permanent standard time or permanent daylight time?
For me summer time (where we have light during the evening) is the best! Nothing comes even close to it
I mean, you could do it in winter when you actually need more daylight time... Or just go to work and come home in the dark and take vitamin D supplements all your life.
In the winter you come home in the dark anyway. Daylight saving does jack except make my morning even darker.
Oh, no - it’s not just making your morning darker! By making you wake up earlier in comparison to the natural rise of the sun, which shifts you farther outside your natural circadian rhythm than capitalism already does, you experience an effect similar to what people on the trailing edge of time zones experience, at least for a time. These include higher incidences of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and breast cancer. Oh, and increased rates of suicide.
…yay.
Edit: I love that every time I wade into the DST debate and present evidence that DST is garbage and we should all be starting our day later, I get downvoted or argued with by some person who thinks that because they get more sun in the evening, they are a better judge of the right approach to health than peer reviewed science.
I struggle in summer DST. Because the sun sets later, I don't get hungry untiil later, which triggers my tiredness later, which makes my eventual sleep shittier, and I'm more tired in the morning.
Fucks with farmers too.
And to think that we should technically be GMT instead of CET... You are proposing us to be GMT+2 forever haha.
I really don't care, just stop the switching.
Depends which side of EU. Same time for Spain and Poland makes little sense.
Spain should be GMT though, it's quite literally below Greenwich.
Almost half of France is west of Greenwich, let alone Spain...
Yeah, it freaking goes through the Pyrenees! The only reason we are CET is because our former dictator wanted to be buddies with evil Chaplin Germany.
We really should go with GMT/UTC
Only if you care having daily events at the same time everywhere. For coordinating across countries it's much easier to be all in the same timezones and just know that those to the east will wake, eat and so on earlier than those in the west, because there's going to be differences anyway.
That's my opinion after working internationally all my life.
Summertime makes sense for both
As a german, I'd prefer permanent daylight time, I want there to be longer light in the evening. I hate when during the winter months I leave the appartment when it is still dark outside and come back home when it's already dusk.
That said, I can see why this wouldn't work across the entire EU, Spain for example is already "an hour behind" in terms of daylight, because of their location, their DST means it's probably light outside at 22:00
Fun fact, so is France Netherlands and Belgium. They should be on British time if the lines were drawn properly.
The reason they're on German time? Nazis. They're were switched to German time while occupied during WW2, and while debate raged afterward they ultimately stayed on German time.
In Iceland we have permanent Summer time and it's great. We go to work in the dark in either case during winter but having some daylight until 4 or 5 makes a big difference.
I think scientific research is quite clear that a permanent standard / winter time is healthier and objectively the better choice.
Personally, I'd still prefer a permanent summer/ daylight saving time. During summer, when days are long, I don't really care. But in winter it's usually still dark when I start working and already dark when I finish. With permanent summer time, it might be slightly harder to get up in the morning, but I could at least get a bit of light in the afternoon.
Standard (brighter mornings) is better for health
Agreed.
Closest to solar time is the truth and it's annoying that something else is even considered a discussion
Permanent no-time-change time
It's in the article
Eh often that's said just to mean end switching, without specifying which one to end up on.
Honestly, either way people and companies could adjust their hours to fit their needs.
Yes.
Do it
Just make it happen already!
While summer time is better for daylight after work, winter time is the one where at 12 the sun is at the highest point.
Depends on where you live. If youre west of Germany but on the mainland, winter is the one where the sun is highest between 1 and 2. Summer time is even worse though, between 2 and 3.
Maybe at some point we abandon timezones all together... One can only hope...
Marvelous idea, let's disregard well established language and time critical systems already relying on the existence of timezones that can't easily be updated for... Being able to tell people your time without actually conveying information.
"Hey wanna play some videya" I ask my friends on another continent during noon "Sorry, its not quite dark yet but already too late for hideogame" -my friend, for whom the sun is still visible, but its a little bit too late, wishing there was a way to easily convey the fact that it is 21:00
Time zones may suck for programmers, but everyone who thinks even a little bit about human to human communication realizes how stupid it is. But I digress, were on lemmy; we dont do human to human communication often
Apparently not. Why wouldn't you just say, "sorry, going to sleep soon" in your example? How is saying it's 21:00 local time critical to communicate that it's too late for games? Why would that inherently communicate that? 21:00 is a pretty normal time for me to be playing games
And saying "let's play at 06:00" still doesn't make any sense because once again, 6 for me and for you is different
You should at least know where someone lives and you can do the conversion. Either way, maybe you would have an established way of communicating with a gaming mate or a guild or something, like only posting times in UTC for example. We have this already. 🙂
You mean that we already have a system in place, being UTC, for when timing is important where "lateness" is not important, like for a livestream, however a removal of timezones would make human to human interaction worse where "lateness" is important (basically everything between a small group of people). Like what happens if you dont know someone's timezone like on a lemmy comment, go ahead is it 14:00 for you? Sorry I mean is it in the night? Sorry its winter, so night starts earlier. How long ago was the sunset so I can know how tired you are so we can sync up and develop a feeling/estimation on how how long we will play videojames.
Yes the sillyness of choosing videogames and live streams is chosen deliberately, because I, as a normal human being, do not give a shit about how time zone influences the stock market and their finances. I just want to quickly know for how long you'd be able to play without deliberately ask for that.
"Wanna play monopoly?" "Its 22:00" "An OK, how about some uno?"
The 22 immediately conveys me that a: you are tired and probably dont want to do math b: you aren't gonna stick around for the 6h of a monopoly game c: if I do want to play monopoly, I can estimate how much earlier I need to ask next time
If the 2nd person said"its evening", it could've been anywhere from 16 to 20, and depending on the personal opinion of the second person, it could be from 18 to 22, good luck doing any planning
Or do you want to have to say that the sun is up but it is slightly too late for monopoly? Also what does late mean? If you generally go to bed at 20 because you have to wake up at 5 for work, even 18 is late; good luck explaining that to someone without being able to use numbers everyone understands similarly enough. (Remember: no time zones == 10, noon for me, could be midnight for you, however since we use the same numbe with different meanings, we can't easily say shit)
This was a pretty rambling comment and hard for me to follow, in all honesty.
I think if you ask someone to play Monopoly, you wouldn't get a reply saying "it's 22:00", you'd get a reply saying "nah, I have to get to bed", or "yes". It's not really an issue whether or not we have universal time or time zones. I don't know anybody who would reply in that robotic way. But I don't know your friends.
Anyway, because of the confusing structure of your comment, I'll just ask: what is the problem you're having and how do you propose to fix it? And why does the current system not work for you? I can't decipher that from your comment, sorry.
That would imply everyone living in the same time zone wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, etc, where this is clearly not even close to being true. If it's too late to start a monopoly game for you, you can just say so
Shops, schools etc should just have hours that make sense for the local solar time anyway
Sorry I may have worded it not good within my ramble. Yes you are correct in that not everyone has the same sleep schedule, but it doesn't really matter does it? 12:00 is still 12:00, we know what we mean; this doesn't work between countries (or the same like China if its big enough for different timezones (which like China intentionally adopted because of specifically this reason)). Since 12 for me and for you are different, we have to do a handshake of how what number means which can be avoided with time zones. I know that 03:00 is night for you (whoa I dont even need to know in which county in which country you live)
To go back to monopoly, since you also responded to that "Want to play monopoly" "No" Why? Too late? Not interested? And when you answer with "its too late" I dont know if its too late for anything, as it currently 15:00, or because its 11:00, and you have enough time to play one or two rounds of uno
Likewise the example another user used down below with traveling. If one usually wakes up at 06:00, one would have to look up, and calculate to what they have to change their alarm to go off at the approximately correct time, which will be ass for people traveling for work often
You seem to have missed at least part of my point. To keep with the monopoly example, you already can't assume that it's too late for anything or there's time for a game of Uno, because people have different rhythms and there's variance, so even if you know it's 2300 for them it still doesn't solve the problem, you are just making an assumption which may or may not be correct on any given day for any given person.
I can't understand if you are promoting time zones or if you want to get rid of them. Which is your stance on time zones?
So You Want To Abolish Time Zones
Fun read, I appreciate how much effort people put into saying nah uh, I don't want/like change...
I will continue hoping quietly.
That was extremely dumb and illogical, tbh. I can think of several ways to implement the change just offhand. Author just picked the dumbest way he could think of so he could oppose the issue.
Best link in the whole discussion.
I don't get the downvotes. They abolished timezones in China (around 1950?) and 5 geographical timezones are just going on Beijing time and have been for a while.
Although I'm not sure if they still use "local time", idk, and then it kind of defeats the purpose..
They kinda do use local time anyway from what I know, yes
To be honest, that's not the worst idea. It would have a ton of implications, but long term this would work fine.
It's a really stupid idea because it robs the numbers of meaning. We already have UTC for transworld clarity. Abolishing time zones just complicates all of everyone's daily life whilst making only a few things easier. It even complicates communication about what time it is in different time zones because you took the numerical offset away.
I don't hope for this. Traveling to another country would really be weird, because you'd have to convert everything all the time while you're there. Like, what should I set my alarm to in order to wake up when I usually wake up in the morning? Instead of just setting it to 6 am or whatever, like normal.
How would that work?
Easy, everyone just uses UTC (or what ever) now.
It's not a technical problem, but good luck convincing people around the world to adopt it.
Time zones are fine as they are. They are less confusing than having 23:00 be close to midnight in one place, early morning in another and noon in another place. It would also result in many places either changing the date at random times or having a different date in the morning and in the evening.
I never said they weren't.
You know the whole world isnt the USA, right?
You would think they do considering they are registered with a .uk instance. What does what they said have to do with America?
Let's keep summer time, It's already dark before 18, once we'll switch to winter time it'll be dark before 17. The benefit is that instead of going to work and starting to work when it's dark ,we'll go to work when it's dark and start to work at dawn. Not worth-it
There's a large population where this has no meaning. The sun rises at 10 AM and sets at 1 PM in the winter here where I live. There's nothing to gain for us, only problems and missed meetings and school mornings and extra stress on kids and parents having to adjust their sleeping routines days in advance. It sucks ass, absolutely not worth it even if we did live in the very specific latitudes where this is perfect. Down with daylight savings! ✊
Are you a polar bear? How can you survive with 3h of sunlight a day?
You must be new to Lemmy, 3h of sunlight is way more than most of us basement dwellers get.
Imagine getting 3 hours of sunlight a day in winter. Where I live north of the Arctic circle we get none for many weeks every winter!
I feel your username is a clue about survival lol.
Vitamin D.
Also we get like 21h of sunlight during the summer so that's pretty neat.
I'm not sure neat is the word I'd use to describe that hellish landscape, but might be a language issue... :)
Which hellish landscape are you talking about? Remember you could be talking about someone's home. 😜
Standard time is objectively better for health. Brighter mornings is so much more important
Fuck bright mornings, I want some daylight to do shit outside after coming home from work.
Bring a flashlight and enjoy your health
Oh yes that splendid health of mine that's greatly prospering from watching the nice daylight being wasted while I'm sitting at fucking work, where it doesn't matter whether it's daylight outside or not, very well knowing that it's dark outside when I leave home to get there, as it will be only just dark outside when I get back for 4 months a fucking year, because a bunch of patronising arseholes are fiddling with the clock twice a year.
I could tell you where to shove that Flashlight of yours in order to enjoy it in a healthy way, but I don't want to be as patronising as you and feel that if you're so knowledgeable about health, you'll figure that out all by yourself.
These people will happily give you scientific methods for enjoying it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37904574/
Just get up like it would be summertime.
No one stops you from getting up 1h earlier in the morning.
Permanent summer time would force everyone to do it.
You got down voted but no-one actually counters that argument.
Why should everyone be forced to get up earlier because some of the population want to? They can already do that!
And to people who say "mORe LiGhT iN tHe evEnINgS" - for most of us in Europe it'll only buy you a few weeks at most and then it'll be dark by the time you finish work/school anyway.
Most people don't have much control over their working hours.
Which is exactly my point. Summer time forces me to get up 1h earlier than normal because I can't choose to come to work an hour late.
But with normal time, you can always choose to live on "summer time" for yourself by getting up an hour early.
Because shifting schedules by an hour randomly in the middle of the year twice is physically damaging and bad for your health, that impacts you. And maybe it's not so bad for you, you work shifting hours, no biggie. Try to imagine that you had that regular schedule and suddenly it changed, it did bother you, perhaps make decisions based on that.
If you can't imagine anyone else having thoughts, feelings, or emotions different from yours, consider that when you're crossing the street the day after daylight savings time, you're being passed by people who didn't get enough sleep and maybe they're like you, but they might not be, and that could directly impact you too.
It's such a simple small change to a weird tradition that has no more purpose in our modern world than the "moonlight lamps" of the US or the penny farthing. They may be historically important or interesting, but that doesn't mean you should be forced to use them. Change can be scary but it's gonna be ok, daylight savings time will inevitably end up the way of the funny big wheeled bike, it's just a matter of when and how. You can always choose to wake up early all year round.
I feel like you're agreeing with me but your comment is phrased like you're disagreeing
And to add to that: It would make the winter mornings so, so much darker.
I don't think many people consider how that would affect them.
I suggest we start using a new metric:
It’s been x amount of seconds since the USA empire fell.
YESSSSSS
So it's the year 65 right now?
So you're saying that the USA fell when Black people got Civil Rights? 🤔
Sus 👀
Any particular reason why a sovereign country can't just decide to do this on its own? Why does it have to be a pan-european thing?
Time chaos in EU.
Imagine organizing military responses or shipping logistics when you can go under an hour then forward and then under an hour again just crossing 3 countries.
Time bandits even!
Eh, it works fine in Arizona. The US uses daylight savings, but Arizona doesn't, except for some of the reservations in Arizona that do. You can go forward and back an hour twice just crossing Arizona
Ninja edit: As I say that, I remember why I even know that - I once spent an entire morning working out a bug in one of my daily jobs. Turned out because a team member in Arizona wrote the script and scheduled it, and a different team member not in Arizona wrote an orchestration to collect results, they ended up off-sync once daylight savings hit. Maybe it doesn't work
The true problem here is using individual floating reference time instead of fixed or shared reference times.
Programming should always use Epoch or UTC+0 internally. All translation to local time would be just that, a translation.
The majority of similar scheduling bugs is due to not being explicit with what your reference time is. For automated background tasks that should always be absolute time. It's only when you're scheduling in reference to events that run at times that are fixed to their local timezones that you should be referring to that kind of floating reference, and then you should link all the references together so everything connected to the event pulls the same timezone reference, etc
Thats a thing you cant decide right for all of europe.
It doesnt matter what you choose, some people and countrys will be mad, and other glad.
Just do it already
Even within countries, people disagree. People have different needs.
¡Hazlo!
At this point I don't really care anymore. The EU has not solved this problem within the last 15 years and probably won't in the future. I understand it's important for some people but we have bigger problems.
Yes, Veggie Burgers for example! /s
That's Veggie Loaf (tm)
sigh
As I understand it there was broad agreement the last time, but the UK pulled out after Brexit and Ireland didn't want to have two different timezones for the North and Republic.
"To kill me you must get up earlier, Spain!"
Since nobody can agree on which time to keep I doubt it'll lead to anything. By now I've kinda gotten used to it anyway.
Nobody agrees on which one is better but I’d say a majority agrees that sticking to one is better
That’s like saying we can’t agree if we want burgers or steak so let’s all have nothing instead
That's exactly what it's like, which is why I suspect you'll all be enjoying a nice big slab of nothing.
Meet in the middle, and be done with it. Instead of going back an hour this weekend. Go back a half hour, and just leave it there forever.
I remember that at some point in the 90s or 2000s you could buy watches with beats time. A day was divided in 1000 beats and there where no timezones. So 300 beats could be breakfast for me and bedtime for you.
I think I would actually really like a global system like that.
That doesn't really solve the problem, it's just relabeling the existing system. The bigger issue is that over the course of a year we don't change when we do things.
You're expected to arrive at work at a particular time, at no point did they ever say oh it's still dark at 7am feel free to come in an hour later. No business would ever do that, so they have to change the clocks so that 7:00 a.m. now happens later.
The whole decimalization and universal time thing would require businesses to make that accommodation. Which is not going to happen.
With a system like .beat (or internet time as it was also called), there are no timezones and there is no daylight savings time.
If we would use a system like that, I'm pretty sure stores in Barcelona would open at a different time than stores in Amsterdam, because the sunrise at different moments. Now we have the same timezone, because it works wel for trade, not because its the best local time.
Using the exact same time globally could fix that. We use the same time for meetings with people abroad but choose the time that fits when the sun rises
Tell that to the people who lose an hours' worth of pay every year to the companies that happily adjust their timecards in the fall and then all too conveniently forget to fix them in the spring.
In continental europe this is quite different from up north, here in norway daylight savings extend the light in the morning another month
it's very nice if I get up early for work to have some light. -it's going to be dark when I leave for work fairly soon either way
can't ya'll down south do one thing and we keep it up here?
Then opt for summer time year-round? Many people just hate the switching.
I think you mean winter time, but no - the point here is defending the switch honestly.
before we switch we have a bit of sun both before and after work, if we had winter time all year then we'd have the sun up at 04 in august; a bit extreme wouldn't you say?
some people hate the switching, others - like me don't mind. And in fact I enjoy the benefits.
main point here is that spain really doesn't need it while up here we do.
It's not just a south thing
You don't live far enough north in Norway if you have any light during the day for most of winter though
I have in the past, so familar with midnight sun and no-sun.
and for those places you benefit from daylight savings far earlier in the season, and then they run their course.
Counter point.
If sun sets at 10 and rises at 13, then that's december; at least for me, and before that we can still get that benefit of some light in the morning going to work.
I mean even living up north with no sun for the winter we got a little bit in the morning with winter time.
(we should get a sun fiesta in december tho, so we go out at 12 just to see the sun for the hour its there)
Other way around, but yeah.
I still maintain that daylight savings time creates more problems than it solves. Health benefits with avoiding DST. It's not worth it, even if I agree that more sun is better. Maybe catching a glimpse of the sunrise every morning during the usually cloudy, or overcast, and moist autumn doesn't really do anything for my mental health. You're still stressing to get to work and/or school in your car or on your bike, or worse, bus or (underground) train with limited time or ability to see the sun and really take it in.
The colder air, everything dying in front of my eyes, everything is wet, messy, muddy, and the damn time shift, those things depress me more than not seeing the sun.
lol, sunset at 10 - quite the misspelling
damn, you're not an autumn fan are you? 🥲
I don't know the research, but I get an extra hour of sleep when we shift to winter time - and I get to see the gorgeous autumn leaves in the sun a bit longer?
Sure seems like I'm the weird one at least here on lemmy tho - so I'll leave it at that
I am not! 🤧 It's the worst time of year apart from the darkest time before the first snow. My mother's favourite time of year, on the other hand. I will never understand that.
The flip side is that we get an hour less sleep coming out on the other side. And us parents don't really get an hour more sleep, as our kids will wake up at 6 am regardless, which will now be 5 am for winter time. Unless we plan ahead days in advance, like I said, in which case we lose the whole advantage of the sleep-in hour anyway. It's more work for no gain no matter what.
And when summertime comes, we have to wake our kids earlier a few days before the shift, if we remember, otherwise we are in for a shock of very sleepy kids in the spring, which also sucks either way you look at it. They will need to be convinced to go to bed earlier (lol yeah right), or be very tired and cranky for a few days. Children's sleep can be very sensitive.
This is all added stress to everyone involved, and it's not welcome whether you are an autumn person or not. It contributes to an already stressful everyday situation of having kids at all, just because we want a few minutes of sun on the way to work during a few weeks or so. All dependent on weather as well, which is mostly overcast where I live in the autumn.
You're not weird in wanting more sun or loving the autumn, but there are aspects to this of which not everyone is aware. It's easy to think about it only from one's own perspective, of course. That's normal. 🙂
That's all very well for Spain who are fairly close to the equator, but us northerners would like to see some daylight in winter.
In the morning or afternoon? I find living in Montreal is getting more difficult as I get older, the short summers, the brutally long and dark winter is getting to me. It's not so much the dark but that winter is a wet soggy season now.
I would like for it to be lighter in the afternoons. It's brutal getting home in the pitch dark.
I think the biggest problem with Montreal is that it's so fucking dirty in the winter, makes maintenance of vehicles a chore. If the city just embraced snow and let it get packed and rough, everyone would have an easier time with their winter and studded tires. Instead of having to wade through salt and the crushed rock that they put everywhere. And in the spring we wouldn't be breathing dust.
That said, I think summer is fairly long here. Mid May all the way to end of September. It's the spring that's missing here, since you can get snowstorms in April still. In contrast in most of continental Europe, there's a peak of cold around end of January / February, and then that's it. March is already the wet but bearable, with lots of blooming "snow flowers".
Summer is 6 weeks, tops. The days get short real quick, August is already cool in the evening.
I don't think you appreciate how much snow we can get.
https://youtu.be/t8f5AybTTKI
I'm probably your neighbour, you Need.
Then use a time zone that makes sense for that?
I don't see why some people are so hung-up on this. We have much much bigger fish to fry.
It's a good thing most things aren't a single track queue then. Are democratic governments slow? Yes. Do they handle 1000's of things in parallel? Also, yes.
Believe it or not, but not everything is a psyop to distract from the Epstein files.
I will never understand the push to kill daylight savings. And of course it would be Spain that's pushing for this a country where they're not really affected by it, but they want to take it away for the entirety of Europe. There have been pretty conclusive studies that indicate that you should wake with the rise of the sun. Unfortunately our lives don't work like that, you get up at 7:00 a.m. whatever the sun is doing, so I would prefer it if we kept 7:00 a.m. to be about the time the sun comes up. Why is that a controversial take?
It has measurable negative effects on health.
Not everyone gets up at 7 am? Probably not even the majority. At least over here elementary starts at 7:30 and most people have their kids in daycare by that time as well. Moreover, time zones are big - so what might be a sunrise at 7 for you might be, depending on the relative location, a sunrise at 7:30 (or 6:30).
This is also why this is so immensely complicated. For some EU countries winter time would be better, for others, summer time. While they are in the same time zone. If you let every country choose what time they will pick or whether or not they will keep daylight saving you'll get a patchwork of relatively small countries all operating at different times. Imagine living in Luxemburg, it's 5 pm, in Belgium it is 5, in France 4, in Germany 6, in the Netherlands 4 again, then Spain hits you with 6 and Austria salutes you at 5. Have fun with that.
Conservativism in a nutshell. Things should stay the way they are because they don't bother me.
Conservativism is a way of thinking, of which your comment is a textbook example for the reasons I mentioned. Doesn't have to have anything to do with the policies of conservative parties (fwiw though, the ones in my country are strongly pro daylight savings because it benefits farmers, who generally lobby them).
It is a health issue to get jetlag forced on you twice a year