If we agree to entertain his lie for a moment, and the further implication that the people supposedly supplying her with drugs were responsible for her OD, doesn't that same logic make gun dealers responsible for shootings?
If we consider the gun ‘attached’ to the handler, would that put the blame back on the person? Or maybe we ought to consider the handler as part of the gun itself.
Neither the gun alone nor the person alone would have killed. Therefore, the dangerous thing is the COMBINATION of gun + person. In conclusion, we shouldn’t ban guns, just make it illegal for people to interact with them in any way.
Not quite in that form, but targeting restrictions on ammunition moreso than the guns themselves is part of my view on that issue. The country is full of guns already, they last practically forever with maintenance, and at the end of the day they're basically just a sturdy tube with some hardware to set the bullet off, and as such it would be difficult to stop illicit manufacturing (3d printed guns and zip guns come to mind). Bullets are at least consumable, require explosive chemicals to make and a gun won't fire without them. If you make it difficult to acquire large amounts at once, then it doesn't matter as much if a gun is modified to be fully automatic either.
That's fair, it'll also mean that the equivalent of ghost guns will be a sight to see given that making your own smokeless powder is very difficult but making your own black powder is just a pain in the ass (the only component that's easy to restrict can be extracted from human biological waste). And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to make black powder cartridges so much you're willing to process urea into saltpetre go ahead. You aren't getting a modern mass shooting like that
No, because drug dealing in this context is hurting someone to exploit them for profit while gun dealers are performing an important service to their communities. You wouldn't consider a grocery store responsible for someone's obesity because they sold flour.
Blaming Mexicans as a people for the acts of a few? Monstrous and inane. Not a rational thought process for a healthy individual
Stealing drugs from your patients? Monstrous but sympathy-worthy. Opiate addiction is life ruining, and I blame pharmaceutical companies and bodily destructive American work culture for this. I hope she has stayed far away from the medical field since then, for her benefit and for everyone else’s.
Lying about one to cover up the other in order to renew a race war? Just evil.
I think it's sympathy worthy because of the fact she wasn't doing it to spite her patients. She was doing it because she was suffering from an addiction, and addiction makes people do things that they wouldn't normally do.
So it's humanizing his mother and saying she was someone who was caught up in something that was too big for her to control and that is sad.
That doesn't excuse the fact that she raised a piece of shit child, or that she hurt people from her addiction. It just sets all of that to the side to focus on the one specific thing that someone with empathy can sympathize over.
As someone who grew up with a sibling who became an addict, leading them from being just a regular asshole to being downright abusive on top of all of the theft, volatility, and other drug-related issues....
Yeah. Still, it took me some 15 years or so to reach that line of relative forgiveness.
I fully agree with you. I am a recovering addict in a substitution program (my doctors hooked me up with fent matrix patches to control my back pain which i started to abuse), and while i did not steal because medication is cheap where i live, i lied to so many doctors to get my fix and i lied to everyone around me to cover up for my fucked up state. Before, i was pretty much someone who wouldn't have considered going to a doctor and lying to him to get meds - addiction brought out the worst in me.
Because it’s driven by intense desperation. You don’t help addicts by ambushing them, you help them by understanding what’s caused them to be the way that they are and how to break their system of dependence. You can’t advance as a society without being able to break unhealthy cycles. So yes, monstrous but sympathy-worthy
I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I think even the phrase "be the way that they are" is lacking empathy and looking at it the wrong way. It's not about the way that they are; it's about the way that they are handling the stressors in their life.
You’re digging into my extreme time crunch comment and finding hard nuggets. I assure you, each and every one of them was a kernel of corn. I wasn’t attacking you, I just had 30 seconds to explain addiction counseling to someone without a visible understanding of it.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I don’t see this conversation going anywhere positive. You’re entirely too upset and I’m entirely too indifferent. If anyone asks, tell them you won this conversation and I’ll corroborate. Here’s an updoot
"If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering [I just made up and is not the reality] of the American people [because, again, – and I cannot stress this enough – I created it and it did not actually happen], then that's what I'm going to do."
Because with morons we are dealing with if they can find one flaw they won’t believe any part of a logically laid out argument.
JD Vance is popular because to stupid insecure men he seems like at the very least an awkward social person, yet they think in a debate he is a “bulldog” that goes after the “facts”.
TLDR: they suck so bad they don’t even know they suck and why
He grew up in Middletown, Ohio. Even if she hadn't been stealing drugs from patients, I know the drug scene there well enough to know plenty of dealers are white. But also the opiate epidemic in the rust belt wasn't some cartel thing, it's simple: the jobs left, nobody had any hope left, and suddenly that injury you got from doing manual labor for years wound up with this new painkiller the doctor was told isn't addictive.
James Donald Bowman is a sad excuse for a human being. I will always remind people of his real name he got from his deadbeat father and the mother he's slandering here. Just to cuck for another asshole named Donald.
Okay, but you can't say that during an election because it's rude and divisive. You're not taking the problem of illegal Mexicans trafficking in double plus illegal drugs seriously, and you shouldn't denigrate a rich man's mother.
if your mom is stealing medication, which it sounds like from a hospital and using it on herself, with no proper diagnosis/condition, its ON HER if she almost dies from it.
FYI, fentanyl is used in US hospitals as the cheapest opiate. Excess OD deaths from fentanyl tend are only ever caused by it being "accidentally present" in another drug. Paying the Taliban to grow opium for US export (they can still prevent local sales) could be a viable path to affordable US healthcare without fentanyl. Much US supply of fentanyl is stolen from legal hospital supplies.
If there was a real national emergency for fentanyl from Canada, a war on hospitals providing 100x the fentanyl that is seized on Canadian border to tax them an extra 25% is going to get them back to using morphine/oxy whatever that costs.
Fentanyl is not the cheapest opiate in US hospitals, and is not used as a substitute for morphine or oxycodone. It's primarily used for anesthesia, where oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/hydromorphone are used in the units as pain killers taken orally. Injectable hydromorphone is cheaper and more commonly used for acute pain than fentanyl.
It's part of general anesthesia, along with other drugs such as midazolam, propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc. It augments anesthesia gases such as sevoflurane/desflurane/isoflurane, though we're getting outside my realm of expertise; I'm not an anesthesiologist so I can't specify why a certain combination of drugs might be used vs another.
And Peter Theil agreed to rig the electio- oops ha ha what I meant was Theil agreed to fund whatever trump wanted if he let this guy take over when he eventually stroked out in a year or two.
Let's explore this.
If we agree to entertain his lie for a moment, and the further implication that the people supposedly supplying her with drugs were responsible for her OD, doesn't that same logic make gun dealers responsible for shootings?
*gasp*
Logic!
Get ‘em! [*crashing, yelling, trampling noises*]
Nah, guns don't kill people, just the bullets fired out of them kill. No one very died from a gun itself
Anyone beaten to death with the pistol grip or rifle stock would like to have a word with you.
Or stabbed by a bayonet
Is that the gun killing you tho? If it's affixed, does it count as the gun or just a knife kill?
Spear kill.
I think an attachment would still count as the gun doing it.
If we consider the gun ‘attached’ to the handler, would that put the blame back on the person? Or maybe we ought to consider the handler as part of the gun itself.
Neither the gun alone nor the person alone would have killed. Therefore, the dangerous thing is the COMBINATION of gun + person. In conclusion, we shouldn’t ban guns, just make it illegal for people to interact with them in any way.
Or the military personnel shot by misfiring pistols when they drop them.
And surely someone in history has been killed by knocking over a rack of guns and being clobbered.
That would require necromancy
You don't need gun control. You know what you need? We need some bullet control.
Not quite in that form, but targeting restrictions on ammunition moreso than the guns themselves is part of my view on that issue. The country is full of guns already, they last practically forever with maintenance, and at the end of the day they're basically just a sturdy tube with some hardware to set the bullet off, and as such it would be difficult to stop illicit manufacturing (3d printed guns and zip guns come to mind). Bullets are at least consumable, require explosive chemicals to make and a gun won't fire without them. If you make it difficult to acquire large amounts at once, then it doesn't matter as much if a gun is modified to be fully automatic either.
That's fair, it'll also mean that the equivalent of ghost guns will be a sight to see given that making your own smokeless powder is very difficult but making your own black powder is just a pain in the ass (the only component that's easy to restrict can be extracted from human biological waste). And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to make black powder cartridges so much you're willing to process urea into saltpetre go ahead. You aren't getting a modern mass shooting like that
Then it's because of whoever sold the bullets.
Let's not bother, not only do they don't care about hypocrisy, double speak is actually their superpower
Nah, it says on this piece of paper that it's different.
No, because drug dealing in this context is hurting someone to exploit them for profit while gun dealers are performing an important service to their communities. You wouldn't consider a grocery store responsible for someone's obesity because they sold flour.
Blaming Mexicans as a people for the acts of a few? Monstrous and inane. Not a rational thought process for a healthy individual
Stealing drugs from your patients? Monstrous but sympathy-worthy. Opiate addiction is life ruining, and I blame pharmaceutical companies and bodily destructive American work culture for this. I hope she has stayed far away from the medical field since then, for her benefit and for everyone else’s.
Lying about one to cover up the other in order to renew a race war? Just evil.
I think it's sympathy worthy because of the fact she wasn't doing it to spite her patients. She was doing it because she was suffering from an addiction, and addiction makes people do things that they wouldn't normally do.
So it's humanizing his mother and saying she was someone who was caught up in something that was too big for her to control and that is sad.
That doesn't excuse the fact that she raised a piece of shit child, or that she hurt people from her addiction. It just sets all of that to the side to focus on the one specific thing that someone with empathy can sympathize over.
As someone who grew up with a sibling who became an addict, leading them from being just a regular asshole to being downright abusive on top of all of the theft, volatility, and other drug-related issues....
Yeah. Still, it took me some 15 years or so to reach that line of relative forgiveness.
I fully agree with you. I am a recovering addict in a substitution program (my doctors hooked me up with fent matrix patches to control my back pain which i started to abuse), and while i did not steal because medication is cheap where i live, i lied to so many doctors to get my fix and i lied to everyone around me to cover up for my fucked up state. Before, i was pretty much someone who wouldn't have considered going to a doctor and lying to him to get meds - addiction brought out the worst in me.
Because it’s driven by intense desperation. You don’t help addicts by ambushing them, you help them by understanding what’s caused them to be the way that they are and how to break their system of dependence. You can’t advance as a society without being able to break unhealthy cycles. So yes, monstrous but sympathy-worthy
I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I think even the phrase "be the way that they are" is lacking empathy and looking at it the wrong way. It's not about the way that they are; it's about the way that they are handling the stressors in their life.
I lacked the verbiage to describe what I meant in the 30 seconds I had available to reply. It was just vaguely phrased, but you’re right
You’re digging into my extreme time crunch comment and finding hard nuggets. I assure you, each and every one of them was a kernel of corn. I wasn’t attacking you, I just had 30 seconds to explain addiction counseling to someone without a visible understanding of it.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I don’t see this conversation going anywhere positive. You’re entirely too upset and I’m entirely too indifferent. If anyone asks, tell them you won this conversation and I’ll corroborate. Here’s an updoot
That's some real hillbilly shit right there.
Come listen to my story 'bout a man named Jd
Some say his love for couches was strong, some say his lust for couches was strong, the only thing that is certain is he's fucked a sofa or two.
The song needs to be an elegy.
"If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering [I just made up and is not the reality] of the American people [because, again, – and I cannot stress this enough – I created it and it did not actually happen], then that's what I'm going to do."
To be fair, I suspect he’s talking about the heroin after she was fired from her nursing job for stealing drugs.
But her addiction is what almost killed her. The (dubious) nationality of the dealers is irrelevant.
Don't MAGA believe all drug users are criminals?
She's a heroin user and get her ass locked up.
Lucky she's not in El Salvador right now.
Rush Limbaugh believed that, right up until his opiate addiction became public knowledge, then again after he got clean.
Why would you be fair?
Because with morons we are dealing with if they can find one flaw they won’t believe any part of a logically laid out argument.
JD Vance is popular because to stupid insecure men he seems like at the very least an awkward social person, yet they think in a debate he is a “bulldog” that goes after the “facts”.
TLDR: they suck so bad they don’t even know they suck and why
He grew up in Middletown, Ohio. Even if she hadn't been stealing drugs from patients, I know the drug scene there well enough to know plenty of dealers are white. But also the opiate epidemic in the rust belt wasn't some cartel thing, it's simple: the jobs left, nobody had any hope left, and suddenly that injury you got from doing manual labor for years wound up with this new painkiller the doctor was told isn't addictive.
James Donald Bowman is a sad excuse for a human being. I will always remind people of his real name he got from his deadbeat father and the mother he's slandering here. Just to cuck for another asshole named Donald.
Join me in deadnaming him!
If she was that desperate, odds are good she sucked a few dicks for drugs, too. Surely not news to him, those trailer walls are thin.
That would probably happen after she got caught stealing from patients. Which he may have still been around for--I don't know the details.
I wonder who JD's father really is...
He's a dead ringer for Rush Limbaugh.
I found the full story here https://crooksandliars.com/2024/07/jd-vance-called-out-over-lie-about-his
I'm just saying. She could have totally stole them from Mexicans.
Which would technically not be a lie.
Um, well, did she steal them from Mexican patients?
No.
Checkmate liberawls!
Okay, but you can't say that during an election because it's rude and divisive. You're not taking the problem of illegal Mexicans trafficking in double plus illegal drugs seriously, and you shouldn't denigrate a rich man's mother.
If this is satire, it's written too close to the bone.
So many references make me want to reread books I read decades ago. I appreciated them at the time, but I think it might be different now.
Politician lying?! That's unpossible!
if your mom is stealing medication, which it sounds like from a hospital and using it on herself, with no proper diagnosis/condition, its ON HER if she almost dies from it.
Just Dunce Vance is a big fat liar, who could have seen this coming.
but when were they Mexican?
who were they mexican?
Remember when Republicans got mad at politicians lying to them? "Read my lips, no new taxes"
FYI, fentanyl is used in US hospitals as the cheapest opiate. Excess OD deaths from fentanyl tend are only ever caused by it being "accidentally present" in another drug. Paying the Taliban to grow opium for US export (they can still prevent local sales) could be a viable path to affordable US healthcare without fentanyl. Much US supply of fentanyl is stolen from legal hospital supplies.
If there was a real national emergency for fentanyl from Canada, a war on hospitals providing 100x the fentanyl that is seized on Canadian border to tax them an extra 25% is going to get them back to using morphine/oxy whatever that costs.
Fentanyl is not the cheapest opiate in US hospitals, and is not used as a substitute for morphine or oxycodone. It's primarily used for anesthesia, where oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/hydromorphone are used in the units as pain killers taken orally. Injectable hydromorphone is cheaper and more commonly used for acute pain than fentanyl.
Source: work in a hospital pharmacy
Ok thank you. I've known patients who lived for a month receiving constant fentanyl that month.
Opiates for anasthesia? surprising. What previous "gas"/process did it replace?
It's part of general anesthesia, along with other drugs such as midazolam, propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc. It augments anesthesia gases such as sevoflurane/desflurane/isoflurane, though we're getting outside my realm of expertise; I'm not an anesthesiologist so I can't specify why a certain combination of drugs might be used vs another.
Howcome anyone listens to this idiot? Tell me one thing what made him important.
I don't think anyone really does. I think he's desperately trying to become relevant and it keeps failing.
He's only VP because he's a complete non-threat to Trump.
And Peter Theil agreed to rig the electio- oops ha ha what I meant was Theil agreed to fund whatever trump wanted if he let this guy take over when he eventually stroked out in a year or two.
All going to plan!
This image implies that someone who would steal drugs from patients would not also purchase drugs from other people? Why not both?
I've known quite a few addicts, and I don't think any of them are as selective as this image describes.