So you expect them to trash their career? This isn't a job where you can easily take it or leave it. Imagine being under 40 and throwing away your retirement, starting all over.
They swore to uphold the Constitution, and so far their orders have not broken that vow.
That's how authoritarianism wins every time. Do you expect people to resist? Careers, retirements, bonuses, if not them it will be someone else, this is not illegal just immoral, oh now it's illegal but not that illegal, oh now it's illegal but my boss would yell at me if I don't do it, oh now I'm too deep, fast forward two years and you're torturing last members of opposition in your newly built concentration camp and wondering not how it went so deep so fast, but when is the lunch and will you be able to torture enough people to get a good evaluation this month.
I get all that. I agree. All I'm saying is that these troops have not broken any laws, have not violated the Constitution. Trump can only deploy them in DC for 30-days, we'll see how that plays when time's up.
My best friend from high school did a few years in the Army, the rest was with the Guard. Not sure how it all works, then or now, but that got him to 20-years and retirement benefits.
You have to do 20 years active for the full retirement. 20 years guard means you get retirement when you turn 55 or whatever. Unless you get medically retired and such.
That's something trump and his people have never understood.
They expect 100% loyalty, but treat the troops like actual shit. And this isn't gonna be a temporary thing, he's pulling NG from the reddest states because he expects them to be most likely to obey, but it's just pissing them off.
He should have spent the next two years spoiling the shit out them. Bonuses out the ass, lots of long paid optional training so they can bank money. Give them all the newest toys and gear.
Build up that loyalty and then bring them in next 1/6 when you're going to pull some shit.
It's really not that hard to figure this stuff out, the only saving grace is they're comically inept
Honestly (and this is a personal opinion) with the view i have of people in general, they just need to spoil them the last 6 months before the election for them to forget all about all this and become loyal. Then as soon as the elections are done it is no longer needed till the next time.
Why spend all that money over the entire period when just the last few minutes are enough to change people's mind.
You don't even have to spoil them. People believed the last lie when he said he gave them the biggest raise ever when it was the normal annual COL adjustment and then claim you're spending the money screwing over blue states.
That's probably not far off from their cadences 😂. "I joined up to get college for free. Now they got me in a fascist regime." That flows a bit better IMO.
Fun fact: during the Nuremberg trials it was determined that the "just following orders" excuse was in fact, not valid; and that someone always ought to disobey their superiors when that goes against liberty.
Which goes to show it didn't go as far as it could've.
They might indeed call it unrealistic to actually go on and prosecute all (and reasonably so given that recovery was key), but at least most of the top and key individuals should've gotten further consequences. Werner von Braun got off light.
There's much the USSR did terribly, but at least it was thorough with its treatment of Nazis after the war. That said, at the end of day, anarchocommunism >>>> state & surveillance capitalism. Stalin still allied with Hitler.
You think soldiers can just ignore lawful orders without severe repercussions? You can sit on your smug high horse when they start beating up innocent civilians.
Yes, they can. I served. You can disobey illegal orders. If you partake, there is no excuse, and you could be charged for being an accessory after the fact.
I think that’s unfair. Imagine being an impoverished American and one of your only options to afford a college education and healthcare is to join the National Guard, an organization that is rarely activated, and when they are, it’s often to actually help people during things like natural disasters. So you join, you take advantage of the benefits and can actually afford to start a family.
Then all of the sudden, you’re stuck in this situation. Leaving will get you a dishonorable discharge, stripping you and your family of healthcare. Getting another job will be difficult. Or you can just clench your teeth and maliciously comply by waffling on your responsibilities
I think it's unfair to have troops deployed in Washington DC. They took a gamble by joining and I can empathize with that. But them complying is furthering the fascist agenda.
Literally twiddling their thumbs while fully dressed out in combat fatigues wasting our tax dollars by the minute. When the fuck will they turn on their handlers and stage a proper coup?
Indeed, but those soldiers are losing too. Their civilian incomes are usually higher than the poverty wages the US military provides. I would be pissed if given those orders.
🤣 that's the standard uniform plus a plate carrier. They still have their patrol caps on. Calm down. Don't blame them for wasting your tax dollars, blame their commander in chief.
What oath? They're literally just standing around doing nothing. This deployment is legal, the president is allowed to do it for 30 days. After that you might have some legal fuckery to try and get them there illegally but it's above board for now.
Jesus Christ. Do something about it or STFU. I'm so sick of feckless leftists complaining and complaining and doing nothing about it. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Or are you just complaining about the lack of civilians getting gunned down in the street and want to feel like a tough guy? Maybe take your own advice?
But if the framework of the law that allows Trump to deploy the National Guard is based on having an actual emergency and not because the moron-in-chief felt like it, then a bogus emergency does not met the mark (not been a real emergency and all)... therefore, his order is illegal
Now, if you are telling me that a president can occupy DC with the National Guard because they felt like it (i.e. no actual emergency needed), then it means you were already living in a fascist regime even before it became as obvious as it is today
You mean this oath? The one that swears to obey the orders of the president?
“I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ______ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.”
So are you going to pay for the legal fight they would have and eventually lose? Will you pay their fines, fees and serve their sentence? And pay them when they can't find a job due to a dishonorable discharge?
Its pretty bad. Its like an ominous cloud over the city. You don't get to see them everywhere but they're pretty common. The presence of the national guard is meant to be a show of force, so they are located in prominent and visible places.
However, the National Guard has mostly kept to the sidelines. I'm more concerned about ICE, Park Police and other federal law enforcement running rampant in unmarked cars, wearing masks, and trying to make themselves unaccountable.
People in DC are definitely talking about it. Many folks elsewhere are dissapointingly quiet
Thanks! It was really bugging me that I couldn't place it from that photo, it looks like a dozen different places around d.c./nova from that angle. The only thing that didn't seem right to me was the roof.
but where were they on J6 huh
Probably in high school as they're young boots.
All these people they keep photographing look quite displeased.
Not displeased enough to not be there.
So you expect them to trash their career? This isn't a job where you can easily take it or leave it. Imagine being under 40 and throwing away your retirement, starting all over.
They swore to uphold the Constitution, and so far their orders have not broken that vow.
Imagine being under 40 and thinking you'll be allowed to retire....
That's how authoritarianism wins every time. Do you expect people to resist? Careers, retirements, bonuses, if not them it will be someone else, this is not illegal just immoral, oh now it's illegal but not that illegal, oh now it's illegal but my boss would yell at me if I don't do it, oh now I'm too deep, fast forward two years and you're torturing last members of opposition in your newly built concentration camp and wondering not how it went so deep so fast, but when is the lunch and will you be able to torture enough people to get a good evaluation this month.
I get all that. I agree. All I'm saying is that these troops have not broken any laws, have not violated the Constitution. Trump can only deploy them in DC for 30-days, we'll see how that plays when time's up.
I think I can answer that already
While you're right, it is also the national guard so it's a supplemental/part-time job and not the primary job for a lot of them.
My best friend from high school did a few years in the Army, the rest was with the Guard. Not sure how it all works, then or now, but that got him to 20-years and retirement benefits.
You have to do 20 years active for the full retirement. 20 years guard means you get retirement when you turn 55 or whatever. Unless you get medically retired and such.
I wondered about that. But he got some sort of deal at 39, which would be 20 years combined Army and Guard. He joined in 1989. Things different then?
Yes.
You typing this from prison? It's easy to sit in your house and say shit like that. Nothing is stopping you.
no, I guess it's too much to ask of the National Guard to guard the nation
land of the free, home of the brave lol...
Yet. Let's see what they do when their orders do violate the constitution.
A buck says 99.9% of them will still be okay with it.
Their orders have absolutely broken that vow.
You mean not displeased enough to get kicked out of the service and irreparably destroy their futures.
Yep. I used to work in D.C. and literally put my money where my mouth is on this one, so yep, that's exactly what I mean.
What does working in D.C. have to do with lawful military orders?
That's something trump and his people have never understood.
They expect 100% loyalty, but treat the troops like actual shit. And this isn't gonna be a temporary thing, he's pulling NG from the reddest states because he expects them to be most likely to obey, but it's just pissing them off.
He should have spent the next two years spoiling the shit out them. Bonuses out the ass, lots of long paid optional training so they can bank money. Give them all the newest toys and gear.
Build up that loyalty and then bring them in next 1/6 when you're going to pull some shit.
It's really not that hard to figure this stuff out, the only saving grace is they're comically inept
If you want some fascist stormtroopers then just pulling the NG won't get you that. But that's what they're trying to groom ice into.
Doubt Trump ever watch CPGrey's video about the keys to power.
Honestly (and this is a personal opinion) with the view i have of people in general, they just need to spoil them the last 6 months before the election for them to forget all about all this and become loyal. Then as soon as the elections are done it is no longer needed till the next time.
Why spend all that money over the entire period when just the last few minutes are enough to change people's mind.
You don't even have to spoil them. People believed the last lie when he said he gave them the biggest raise ever when it was the normal annual COL adjustment and then claim you're spending the money screwing over blue states.
“I just joined for the free college and cheap health insurance but now they got me defending a facist regime”
That's probably not far off from their cadences 😂. "I joined up to get college for free. Now they got me in a fascist regime." That flows a bit better IMO.
Why does this seem like step one in Trump's 'I'm not leaving at the end of my term' plan?
Because he incited an insurrection the last time he didn't want to leave at the end of his term. There's no way he'll give it up this time.
Don't forget the false slates
It’s more like step one hundred.
"Just following orders"
Fun fact: during the Nuremberg trials it was determined that the "just following orders" excuse was in fact, not valid; and that someone always ought to disobey their superiors when that goes against liberty.
That's exactly why I posted that.
Only 177 people were judged in the Nuremberg trials, though. Barely a few dozens executed.
Vast majority of soldiers and civilians that were "just following orders" were indeed not condemned by their actions. At least not by any judge.
Which goes to show it didn't go as far as it could've.
They might indeed call it unrealistic to actually go on and prosecute all (and reasonably so given that recovery was key), but at least most of the top and key individuals should've gotten further consequences. Werner von Braun got off light.
There's much the USSR did terribly, but at least it was thorough with its treatment of Nazis after the war. That said, at the end of day, anarchocommunism >>>> state & surveillance capitalism. Stalin still allied with Hitler.
Is that fun fact applicable to soldiers just standing around doing nothing?
If you think someone can opt out of responsibility for partaking in repression, then I got bad news for you, yes.
You think soldiers can just ignore lawful orders without severe repercussions? You can sit on your smug high horse when they start beating up innocent civilians.
Yes, they can. I served. You can disobey illegal orders. If you partake, there is no excuse, and you could be charged for being an accessory after the fact.
You've no clue what an illegal order is. Standing around and providing security is not an illegal order. You should know that.
Listen, I hate the orange shitstain as much as the next guy, but he hasn't issued an illegal order nor are they following one.
This is why I can't stand leftists as much as I can't stand right-wingers. You're all so disingenuous and always argue in bad faith, shame on you!
You'll end up doing more damage to your movement than any fascist fuck could ever.
I think that’s unfair. Imagine being an impoverished American and one of your only options to afford a college education and healthcare is to join the National Guard, an organization that is rarely activated, and when they are, it’s often to actually help people during things like natural disasters. So you join, you take advantage of the benefits and can actually afford to start a family.
Then all of the sudden, you’re stuck in this situation. Leaving will get you a dishonorable discharge, stripping you and your family of healthcare. Getting another job will be difficult. Or you can just clench your teeth and maliciously comply by waffling on your responsibilities
I think it's unfair to have troops deployed in Washington DC. They took a gamble by joining and I can empathize with that. But them complying is furthering the fascist agenda.
Because saying no when something isn't just is the right thing to do.
People used to have principles that they just would not break, despite the consequences.
Looks like North-Korea....
Literally twiddling their thumbs while fully dressed out in combat fatigues wasting our tax dollars by the minute. When the fuck will they turn on their handlers and stage a proper coup?
Indeed, but those soldiers are losing too. Their civilian incomes are usually higher than the poverty wages the US military provides. I would be pissed if given those orders.
🤣 that's the standard uniform plus a plate carrier. They still have their patrol caps on. Calm down. Don't blame them for wasting your tax dollars, blame their commander in chief.
Smile, you on camera just following orders.
I hope breaking your oath was worth it. I'm ashamed to see the uniform I once wore now.
What oath? They're literally just standing around doing nothing. This deployment is legal, the president is allowed to do it for 30 days. After that you might have some legal fuckery to try and get them there illegally but it's above board for now.
Can't wait to continue hearing this while we all board the trains.
Jesus Christ. Do something about it or STFU. I'm so sick of feckless leftists complaining and complaining and doing nothing about it. Be the change you want to see in the world.
What part of my statement suggests that I'm not?
Or are you just complaining about the lack of civilians getting gunned down in the street and want to feel like a tough guy? Maybe take your own advice?
This deployment was legal for up to 30 days. They can only refuse illegal orders
They swore to uphold the Constitution. So far their orders are within the law.
you mean the order to fight the imaginary crime wave?
Trump's within his rights, for 30 days. We'll see what comes next.
Again, even if the justification is 100% bogus??
This sounds like yet another move of the goal post to justify inaction
Of course it's bogus, not sure what the remedy would be, but DC is a weird jurisdiction, he can do this for a total of 30 days.
But if the framework of the law that allows Trump to deploy the National Guard is based on having an actual emergency and not because the moron-in-chief felt like it, then a bogus emergency does not met the mark (not been a real emergency and all)... therefore, his order is illegal
Now, if you are telling me that a president can occupy DC with the National Guard because they felt like it (i.e. no actual emergency needed), then it means you were already living in a fascist regime even before it became as obvious as it is today
You mean this oath? The one that swears to obey the orders of the president?
“According to law and regulations.”
The president is breaking the oldest law we have. Around deez here parts we call that the constitution, Kyle.
So are you going to pay for the legal fight they would have and eventually lose? Will you pay their fines, fees and serve their sentence? And pay them when they can't find a job due to a dishonorable discharge?
Yeah, use my taxes to defend people that don’t betray the constitution.
No, you personally. Since that's what you're asking of these people.
Yes.
You can take my personal taxes and pay the people that aren’t traitors to America.
You, personally, can go do it.
Idiot
Oh look, traitors.
No actually. They're doing their jobs and obeying lawful orders.
That looks hella dystopian
Traitors and also shows when we have storm disasters and need help it was wasted on this.
Are we sure that's D.C.? Looks like the Pentagon (which is across the river in Virginia).
Its Union Station in DC. I'm sure. Source: I live here.
What is it like on a day to day basis? Do you see the presence every where you go? Are people talking about it?
Its pretty bad. Its like an ominous cloud over the city. You don't get to see them everywhere but they're pretty common. The presence of the national guard is meant to be a show of force, so they are located in prominent and visible places.
However, the National Guard has mostly kept to the sidelines. I'm more concerned about ICE, Park Police and other federal law enforcement running rampant in unmarked cars, wearing masks, and trying to make themselves unaccountable.
People in DC are definitely talking about it. Many folks elsewhere are dissapointingly quiet
Thanks! It was really bugging me that I couldn't place it from that photo, it looks like a dozen different places around d.c./nova from that angle. The only thing that didn't seem right to me was the roof.
I guess it's just the angle, but that's definitely taken on Columbus circle looking west
Lol, what a weird thing to nit pick...
Not a nit pick, I just lived in the area for a while and it looked familiar is all.
Still rocking Humvees?
Hey at least they're not cybertrucks 🥴
They are Nasty Girls after all. They get all the broken clapped-out hand-me-downs.
It's a nice shot regardless of the implications.
Freedom