Porn censorship is going to destroy the entire internet
The UK's Online Safety Act doesn't just age-gate porn; it blocks material deemed "harmful" to minors. Days after the law went into effect, reports of non-explicit content on social media getting blocked in the region started to crop up. Subreddits from r/IsraelCrimes to r/stopsmoking are now walled in the UK. Video games, Spotify, and dating apps have instituted or will institute age checks.
Given the SCOTUS age verification decision [June '25], Stabile fears that people [in the US] will go "mask off" in the fall and spring, when state legislatures start getting back together. "People are going to attempt to restrict the internet even more aggressively," Stabile said. "I think people are going to work to restrict all sorts of content, particularly LGBTQ content, but also content that is broadly defined as any sort of threat or propaganda to minors." Other experts Mashable spoke to agree with him.
"I'm going to jump to the end step," [Eric Goldman, law professor at the Santa Clara University School of Law] said. "The end step is that most online users are going to be required to age authenticate most of the time they visit websites. That's going to become the norm." In a paper he wrote, Goldman called these statutes "segregate-and-suppress" laws.
The stated reason behind these laws is to "protect children." But as journalist Taylor Lorenz pointed out, in the UK, age verification is already preventing children from accessing vital information, such as about menstruation and sexual assault.
"When we see crackdowns on spaces on the internet, we're essentially stripping away that potential for self-actualization," Goldman said. We've reached the dystopian stage of the internet, he added.
https://mashable.com/article/age-verification-is-going-to-destroy-the-entire-internetOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca
Age verification isn't really age verification: it's identity verification. And once you have given your identity to one or two websites, data brokers will ensure that all your other activity on the internet will eventually be tied to it. Burner devices and anonymous VPNs could help, but only until those become illegal too.
This will have a chilling effect on not only every kind of discourse the fascists hate, but also political organization and people's ability to resist. You won't be able to organize a protest online without the police knowing in advance who is likely to come and finding a pretext to intimidate or pre-arrest them.
That's the most insightful and chilling comment I've read in a while. I especially like the "it's not age verification; it's identity verification" part. (That messaging needs to be more commonplace.) The key(s) for organizing data about individuals online will shift from email addresses only to enough stable identifiers to impersonate someone or maybe even steal their identity. Data leaks and fraud will probably increase dramatically given the value-add of these data.
With the level of quashing dissent these days - eg UK police arresting hundreds of nonviolent people with placards denouncing genocide; military deployments in LA and DC - no wonder certain states/ governments support online identity verification laws.
"No Kings" protests are already a non-story in mainstream news today. Tomorrow, they can be prevented from happening in the first place! /s c/aboringdystopia
And one key thing. Fascists and fascist collaborators will claim, "everything you do online and already tracked to your real identity." But the truth is, if that were already the case, then there wouldn't be a push for these identity verification laws.
And even if that's somehow protected, I'm really uncomfortable with the government having that data.
That's been true for a while. But it was "The FBI can put a pin in it" true before. And now it feels like "LinkedIn is going to have a second secret file on you" true.
Fun fact:
That was the plan all along.
The guy who founded LinkedIn... Paypal mafia
The guys who invested in Facebook. . PayPal mafia
The guys who founded YouTube.... Paypal mafia
The guy who founded Square .... Paypal mafia
The guy who ran doge and got all your us gov datasets, has literally half of all satellites in orbit sucking up your location and data... Paypal mafia
The guy who decides who attends the bilderberg group, is ceo of the ai that is used by nearly every police force in the USA, and has contracts with military, who funded trump and Vance... Paypal Mafia
These guys have literally created the techno society we are now slaves to.
They are just getting started.
Idk, man. Seems like they're wrapping up. Not a whole lot left to do when you're this far up on the board.
My friend, you have no idea of the hell that awaits... There's always a deeper layer...
Sure sure sure. Modern American politics is just the Shepherd Tone.
idk what that is. Also, I'm referring to the global state of things, not just North America; the identity-tracking mania, as far as I know, began with the EU, no?
Time to start making zines and locally organizing i guess
18+ to shop at Walmart. I don't want my children exposed to harmful things like books, my boys shouldn't be exposed to cleaning supplies or see women's garments and my girls shouldn't have to see that other girls are allowed to pick out their outfits or do manly things like play sports.
In the UK some supermarkets charge extra for children to buy products. You need to register an account for them to harvest even more data and if you don't then some products can cost a lot more. Children can't register as they can't collect that kind of data on children.
I shop at Aldi instead because they don't do this shit
Those store loyalty cards suck. When I'm forced to use one, I just enter my parents' number or something because I don't want yet another company to spam me with calls and texts.
And they dont even have any valid excuses, because its totally possible to implement anonymous age verification that cannot be fooled. These systems already exists and work perfectly, but it was never the plan to do it this way. It was always intended as a political tool of censorship.
What systems are you referring to?
The EUs eID system. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/european-digital-identity_en
Depending on the use case, varying amounts of information can be transferred like only age or nationality or everything.
Ive used it for signing EU petitions but also local bureucratic things like residency stuff.
The eID system is kind of overkill if all that matters is age verification. You could build a suuper lightweight system just for that which would make checking the source code much easier.
Does the system know what service is requesting the age verification?
Nuclear weapons are harmful to children.
Global warming is harmful to children.
Microplastics and forever chemicals are harmful to children.
But, no, let’s just block the porn.
The felon sitting in the Oval Office is harmful to children.
*The pedophile king whose name has been confirmed to be in the Epstein files
Angelspit - Don't Say
We need to purge our society of these genital obsessed religious extremists
When they've been in Power for so long pedophilia becomes an elite norm.
We should haul them into public arenas and feed them to lions. They get off to that sort of thing.
Lions are boring. I wanna see the fanatics fight hippos and a pissed off rhino.
I'm thinking hyaenas.
Amen
Remember, according to the UK government you're legally able to have sex, give birth, choose your future, and (soon?) vote at 16. Heaven forfend if you see a pair of titties though, you're not mature enough for that...
You can have sex, but you better not look!
I'm not against a bit of spice, but blindfolds at 16 just seem a little advanced. Especially when sex at that age is akin to a oblong peg in a tesseract shaped hole of unknown location.
No no you're missing the point. It's not that you can't look, you just have to tap the gubmint on the shoulder so they can watch you look
oblong peg in a tesseract shaped hole of unknown location
Thanks for that. I just spat out my coffee and laughed a little too hard.
You really dont see the difference between two 17 year olds in a relationship and watching porn online?
Two 17 year olds have no idea how relationships work - one or both is normally carrying a Disney complex, and you're both heavy risk takers.
Been there, done that, no thanks. It was an experience, but not one I'd voluntarily relive.
A 17 year old consuming pornography? Sounds to me like their parents need to put that shit into some context.
Just to be clear, you are arguing that 17 year olds dating is somehow worse than consuming porn?
I just highlighted the differences. What you conclude from those is your problem.
- Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
Percival.
Edited. Thank you
Happy to be of service!
I always thought it was spelled "Percy Valuli sees cocks"
The very instant a website wants me to verify my age by providing PII, I’ll just blacklist that website from my network. There isn’t a single website that I can’t go without.
What if it ends up being all discussion boards?
Oh no, where can I go in order to be made to feel outraged by chronically online children, bots, and foreign intelligence services.
/s
reddit?
Sure, blacklist those goobers too
Lemmy?
Until they ban Tor there will always be porn available.
This isn't about protecting children.
This is about narrative control on the internet.
Bingo
Of course it is about protecting children. We dont sell porn magazines in grocery stores anymore, despite the fact they are still "available".
The internet is a public place, having awful things available for children to look at is not a good thing. Personal freedoms have to take a backseat to public health and safety.
If parents want their kids to not see porn, they should set up filters on their devices and monitor their computer use. That has been doable for decades.
The internet isn't a shopping mall where everyone needs to follow some set of rules, it's more like a neighborhood where you can go up and knock on anyone's door. If you don't like what they do at their house, the solution is to not visit their house, not force everyone to follow some set of rules on their own property. Websites shouldn't have to go out of their way to block traffic that doesn't follow some set of rules, people should go out of their way to not visit sites they don't want to see.
That usually equates to removing all technology from kids hands as most are unable to research and properly secure what they give their children. Technology is needed, they can't grow up without knowing how to use it and making that safer is fine by me.
If you want to look at adults only material prove you are an adult or go about it a different way. The internet isn't the only place porn exists.
If the parents don't want their kids to watch porn, why the fuck are they even letting their kids use phones or computers with zero oversight? It should NOT be the government's responsibility to parent kids, parents should fucking learn how to set up protections and blocks on their devices and networks.
Besides, "prove you're an adult on the internet" can be faked. ID? Ask an adult friend, or AI edit it. It doesn't matter if some sites manage to catch it, some won't and kids will go to those with weaker verification.
Credit Card? Some kids have their own, others can try to sneak their parents' number.
As an adult, I do not want to give my ID or CC info to every porn site I visit, because I know they will keep that information forever. With so much individually identifiable information, said sites then become really big targets for hackers and government.
When people say this is not about protecting kids, that's what they mean. At best, it creates a shitty, but hardly impassable barrier for kids to access porn. At worst, it creates immense centers of valuable data that can be used against individuals.
Last but not least, unless the law starts applying to chat groups, that'll be the easiest solution for most kids who still want to watch porn. Discord, Telegram, Whatsapp are full of places where you can get lots of adult material.
Exactly, and it's not even hard to find.
Just look at piracy, for example. Studios are really aggressive about taking down copyrighted material, yet it's still really easy to find it. Porn sites, on the other hand, aren't as aggressive, so it's even easier to find.
These types of laws only hurt law abiding citizens.
I hate to break it to you but they dont need your cc or a picture of your face, porn websites make a lot of money off selling user data, and it regularly gets combined with other applications to identify you. Ever wonder how peoples porn accounts have been linked to them publicly?
This is about putting the responsibility on site owners to do their best to ensure content is appropriate for children or that it is unavailable to children.
This is simply people throwing a fit about "my freedoms". Noone here actually cares about other people or society in general, just selfishness.
That's true for the entire corporate run internet. As is, however, all porn sites work fine with an AdBlock, which also blocks tracking. Unless the user is logging in with an email they use for everything else, it's not as easy to connect their porn history with the rest of their online activities. People that use burner emails and throwaway accounts for porn sites aren't being exposed. The infamous Ashley Madison leak showed that a LOT of accounts used work emails - those people are asking for trouble.
You know that's not true. No porn site will do "their best", they'll do the bare minimum not to get sued. Even YouTube, with infinite money from Google, doesn't do "the best" to ensure kids don't see shit they're not supposed to. Instagram is frequently bombarding kids with content that is not age appropriate, if they start following the "right" accounts.
Look in the mirror. People are rightfully complaining that this will give too much burden and POWER to corporations that are already too big and hoarding too much data, and you want corporations to be the nannies of the internet, dictating whether a user is or isn't an adult. What kind of mental gymnastics is needed to equate greater corporate and govt control of the internet with "you're just throwing a fit, you're all selfish"?
Corporations dont want to do this, it costs money. We can talk about possible misuses of data if you'd like but I'd say we are swimming in an ocean of misuse at this point.
I'm saying people are selfish because this type of stuff has happened over and over and noone cares, but as soon as it affects porn the internet throws a tantrum. Sorry for noticing a pattern there but it seems like people won't admit how addicted to porn they really are.
No, it usually equates to parents not filtering anything because that's the laziest option. That's not great, but violating everyone's privacy for an ineffective law is worse.
Commercial products exist for those who want them. Use those instead of asking governments to handle parenting for you.
If personal privacy is that important to you then download your porn from torrents, or just dont watch it. Porn isn't a necessity. You aren't owed porn.
But it's not about porn, it's about government interference on the internet.
Is it though? Seems funny to me that porn websites had to hang up "no kids" signs and now people are claiming its an issue about freedom and privacy.
Freedom is a prerequisite to health and safety.
No its not, or else I'd be free to hurt people as well.
Funny how broad "awful things" gets determined to be. Can't have people learning that the LGBT and political dissent exist, can we?
The dark web is a public place too. Are you expecting that to be banned as well?
People aren't learning that lgbtq people exist by casually stumbling upon it on pornhub. This is besides the point.
It isn't besides the point, you've just missed the point:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/childrens-online-safety-laws-are-failing-lgbtq-youth/
And you've conveniently ignored my second question.
The person you are talking to repeatedly and loudly advocates for fascist, oppressive, totalitarian policies. I would not expect any productive or good faith exchange with them.
Yeah, you're right.
Well bless your heart for warning them, they might get into trouble if they talk to me! Oh no!
I can't speak for people using the law to also target lgbtq people, it doesnt seem to be the goal of it but I'll accept that there will be people who try to twist it. At this point it seems literally everything is twisted against that community.
As for the dark web, its so unpopular I dont consider it having a societal effect but If there was a site or service on there popular enough that it shows up in regular life for non-tech users, then yes it should regulated. I'm not for banning content, but rules and regulation can mitigate negative effects of something like widely available pornography.
It's not about protecting the children and never has been with the Party of Pedos. It's about control.
Outlaw porn. Then start calling LGBTQ folks pornographic. Now it's illegal to be gay. You KNOW they are going in that direction.
Stephen Fry’s character in V For Vendetta is a perfect depiction of this
https://youtu.be/jtVWdplyDx8
Pornographic content is literally & figuratively the canary in the coal mine of the internet.
There's a news clip of a reporter bypassing the restrictions in under 4 seconds. I actually think more teens will get around this than adults lmao. I look at the positives though, the silver lining is at least teens are learning about vpns early.
Oh god we're so fucked.
They will be using whatever “free” vpns show up on a google play/App Store search - which will expose them to worse.
Yes but at least protonvpn and mullvad are among the free VPNs they're using.
Oh god we're so fucked.
Most of the bypasses are by using a fake picture though. Two problems with that - if you consistently use the same fakery then your identity is still tracked between things (which is barely better than using your real identity), and if one service reports you for it being fake, you might lose all your connected accounts if they implement some sort of system like that in the future.
Maybe the silver lining is teaching them about the limitations of data obfuscation and misdirection early? The adults of tomorrow will be so much better off once they experience rejection via automation due to dumb shit they did on the internet as kids.
Oh god we're so fucked.
Google image search for tits works without any age verification
Will soon be stuck in "safe mode" until you log in with verified if on your account.
Apparently the OSA counts for platforms and Google isn't a platform? Not sure if that is accurate, or are Google just saying lol get fucked.
https://imgur.com/QqabC7T
The first time this PII is leaked about some politician's online search history, it will all get repealed.
Wanna stop this? Get some whale to buy up the data and find people pushing this shit and any mass adoption for these things will die. Politicians like to eat up religious lobbyist's shit until it's used to expose their less savory activities to the greater population.
Won't this just push things underground?
Kids are probably the last people you want in secret groups sharing porn collections online. Just seems like that makes them much more vulnerable than if they were just whacking off to pornhub.
Maybe there are worse problems in the world?
More traffic for the Dark Web? All this reminds me a comic series called
Analog
It's 2024, and the world has been mass-doxxed. Every email, photo, and document ever sent rains down out of the cloud, and only a fool would send a secret over the web. This is the era of the "Paper Jockeys": armed couriers with briefcases of secrets who'll get your sensitive information around the globe or die trying. Jack McGinnis and his partner Dona are two of the best in the business. For a price, they ll move your sensitive information where it needs to go as they fight off fascists, criminals, and spies.
"Poorly Implemented Attempt to Censor Porn will Ruin Corporate Internet"
There, FTFY
Poorly implemented? There is no good implementation of censorship or any other restriction on freedom of expression. All attempts to do so are dangerous, existential threats.
Yeah, but it's like it's total slop on top of the censorship part. It's literally adding insult to injury.
We need to consider building on and spreading the word about other protocols like Tor, Yggdrassil etc etc. Show people that the Commons cannot be stolen again.
I think the problem is that most of the people who have casually heard of Tor already associate it with CSAM
good thing there are alternatives, like the aforementioned yggdrasil and i2p, though ygg doesn't guarantee anonymity
No. None of those or other prptocols are above legislation or javlass politics. This starts and ends with the public amd who they vote for. Just moving the goal post isnt going to stop this.
Bad news for HTTP are good news for P2P.
Ehh maybe. Next they'll charge the ISP's with logging what we do and blocking unidentifiable traffic.
I think ISP are already logging what we do. ( at least in EU )
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=celex%3A52012XX0208%2801%29
and all of the monitoring of course have
so given that there is war next door you can assume you're being monitored 24/7
also this
0 doubt you're being monitored, i'm more worried when they stop allowing you to pass secured traffic.
Among many other examples such as IPRED. In a weird way, I'm glad that such an awful directive blatantly states its purpose, instead of all the other "think about the children/terrorists/whatnot"...
I'm ready for the internet to end. This experiment has shown it is extremely harmful to society. Fucking end it already.
The internet isn't the problem. Corporations mining it for money is.
No... I really do think the internet is the problem. People aren't meant to know 1000s of people all at once. We evolved our social abilities in tribes with maybe a couple hundred individuals. The sheer number of people who are all effectively anonymous who are constantly trying to one up each other and troll people is too much for anyone to bear. And that's before we get into the innumerable echo chambers of whatever flavor you want that allow people to reinforce their nutjob beliefs in a way that wouldve been shut-the-fuck-down if brought up in a smaller group.
And that's not even getting into the fact that Amazon is utterly destroying every retailer on the planet which has had cascading effects that are too broad and disastrous to bring up in a brief "the internet sucks" conversation.
No. The internet is the problem. It should be reserved for sharing academic papers like back in the darpa days.
the "early" internet was great. hell you don't even need to go back that far.
online games taught us that people all over the world are just like you. they are not some elusive foreign potential threat but chill people. everywhere
we found more common ground than differences, it was beautiful while it lasted . only in the recent times the big us-vs-them rift appeared everywhere
Sure but the common ground isn't necessarily a good thing. It lets you retreat from in person community because you found someone to hang with that you have never met in person. It does encourage some healthy behaviors like work on interesting hobbies - but the homogenizing affects are worse. It has practically halted the evolution of small cultures and arts across the globe because they thrived in isolation. The world is too small; too mundane now. There is no wonder about what's abroad. Everything is at your fingertips and it's at everyone else's too.
My in-person community was toxic and abusive, and I didn't even realize it until I found a warm, accepting, and much healthier online community to compare with. "Retreating" was a survival need. I'm glad your offline community isn't harmful to you but don't assume that is the case for everyone.
I'm also part of one of those small artistic cultures you mentioned and it evolved and thrived way more with the arrival of the internet than it ever did in the days of small in-person gatherings and physical-only publishing. Art is furthered by cultural contact and mutual exchange of ideas, not isolation.
Now, you do have a point that there is a problem with homogeneity and stagnation these days, but the real cause of it is late-stage capitalism. The harder it is for the average person to make a living, the more they are forced to focus all of their energy on making money. For an artist, that means not having any time for masterpieces or experimental projects because Fast and Marketable is the only way to make rent. Arts and culture are starving because a small number of billionaires are sucking up all the financial nutrients (and then passing censorship laws to cut down anything that still manages to grow, until the only things left are as boring and mundane as they are.)
kind of an insane take to say common ground is not a good thing.
the alternative was historically constantly warring tribes.
best example for it is the european union. former enemies peacefully deciding on common ground. the result: most peaceful time in european history.
You're comparing treaties to upvotes. They're different things.
You’re free to leave anytime. You could live a simple life out in the boonies working on a small farm and 99% of internet shit would go away.
Me leaving wouldnt solve the problem of the brain rot it causes 90% of people.
probably depends on how digitally advanced your country is, but: accessing government services and even things like making a doctor's appointment will continue to be pushed online
for now there are measures to keep up service for the analog eldery - but for how long?
i expect there will be basically no opt-out-of-online in ~15 years
UK isnt so puritanical as the US, the sudden shift is very suspect of the actors behind these legislations all over the world.
It was porn watching that initially pushed the internet technology to be better. Everything comes full circle.
Here's the thing. When prohibition took effect in the US, anyone with half an idea on how fermentation and distillation worked made their own alcohol (I made my own 'prison hooch' at home using EC-1118 yeast, sugar, and fruit juice. It is fucking EASY to do). The problem with stuff like this is that some people often produced toxic stuff, since they had no idea how to separate ethanol from methanol and other toxic byproducts during distillation, and this shit got people killed. Not only that, the complete lack of regulation (since it was 100% illegal after all) meant that people adulterated the booze with all manner of bullshit. It was a common trope in prohibition era and post-prohibition films to showcase it.
With porn? Look, the porn industry is rife with abuse for everyone involved. But having a legal industry and legal sites like pornhub and many others means one thing: The shit isn't going to be illegal. There were actual porn videos featuring underaged girls on pornhub, and those were removed almost immediately upon discovery. Dark web stuff is... holy shit! One main reason why I don't do much dark web stuff is very specifically that I fear I will click on a link that'll take me to some child porn site... and the stories I heard on true crime videos show just how horrific many of those pornographers are. They are far more than just naked kids posing, some of them involve almost killing children.
And banning porn will only make it that there are no protections whatsoever against anyone, be they adult or otherwise. If there is one good thing about modern porn is that a lot of it (and I would even say the best) is amateur made. With the people involved all willingly making the stuff to post online.
or we could just ban their ip range from every website idk
Kids shouldn't use the internet without a parent or teacher monitoring them. We can blame big tech for targeting our most vulnerable and pandering to them, kids are very easy to manipulate vis-à-vis a great target to advertisers, they will fill participation metrics, they will sit on one site for hours. And our solution is to keep the unsafe pseudo kids park online while handing power to faceless corps who we are to trust with our private and identifiable data? Roblox for example is an open pedo network targeting kids, this won't be fixed. The sad truth is many children are encountering sexual content through these online play grounds made for kids.
We have the dark web as backup.
Dicks are going to destroy the internet, regardless of pr0n.
TOR and i2p and VPNs? Are we skating towards a 100% encrypted internet?
That would be rad, but isn't TOR glacial? And VPNs are sketch if you're not paying for them. What is i2p like, and does it have access to the open web or is it more a siloed space?
A mostly text site like lemmy could work at glacial speeds.
I spent about a month looking for something worthwhile on TOR. The only thing I remember is Dread (kind of a reddit clone, but worse). Everything else was easier to access on the normal internet. Yes, it was really slow. And for obvious reasons all JavaScript is blocked.
I never got i2p to work. I think. It said everything was okay, but I couldn't connect to anything.
It's siloed, you can't access clearnet while connected to i2p, so it's a lot like Tor. It technically should be faster than tor, too, I haven't done enough testing to say if that's indeed the case or not
It literally only* affects corporate websites.
I knew what you meant to say, and now I'm left wondering how clumsy my fingers must be if I can accurately read a typo where 75% of the letters are wrong.
Context :) fixed
Please don’t make me selfhost whisparr lol, I’m fucked in the head but not THAT fucked
Who would've thought?
This entire world revolves around sex. Why do people want to suppress that which is natural?
Porn makes people into dumb animals same with alcohol just saying and also it creates unhealthy standards and leads to sexual immorality it's not even real sex
Porn is the scapegoat for surveillance
Much more harm comes from social media but it’s harder to use that to justify power grabs
If it were not porn, then the powers would pick some other thing to justify age checks: graphic violence perhaps
If only you had provided more details, so I could debunk the nonsense. Still, I'm sure you have links to evidence of any of these claims, right...?
You seem to find what other adults do privately to be scary and exhilarating and disgusting and sinful. Which is your right, but "sexual immorality"? Lol. Surely you understand that that's 100% subjective, and undermines any actual point you might have had...
Just because people can overindugle doesn't mean I want the government having direct visibility into my interests online.
Dweeb.
I strongly dislike pornography, and absolutely agree that pornography has genuinely fucked with social perceptions of what healthy and normal sex is supposed to look like. It doesn't by definition have to do this, but does so largely because of exploitation within the industry itself.
That being said, I am resolutely opposed to any attempt to gatekeep the internet in this manner. It's really not about pornography. It's about mass surveillance. Anyone with a VPN can effectively bypass these restrictions. Its the fact that the majority of people will not put in the effort to do so, and will more readily just let the app scan their face and note their identifying information. This has made tracking people significantly easier for the British government, and has opened the door to creating a legal precedent to control what kinds of content minors can access. Principally, it allows the restriction of certain political content from minors view. This allows it to function as a very effective propaganda tool.
/s??