Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. It's a must read if you're into dystopia. Unlike Orwell, Huxley doesn't focus on politics of his time. Specially good to read alongside Island, an utopia of the same author, dealing with similar topics (society, drugs, the human condition).
Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. It has some satirical vibes, but it is not a good book to read if you're feeling down (content warning: sexual violence). It focuses on a teen gang leader in the near future, and talks about themes like the impact of free will on morality.
William Golding' Lord of the Flies. Technically not a dystopia, but it "scratches" the same itch. It's about a bunch of kids dumped in an island, without adult supervision, and the resulting nasty proto-society that they build from it.
Yevgeny Zamyatin's We. It's perhaps one of the grandparents of the genre; it talks about individuality on a society controlled by a state that managed to conquer the whole globe.
There's also Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I don't recommend it - the book is basically a "if Orwell was right-wing, soapboxing instead of trying to explain what's going on, and with poor writing skills". Seriously.
Yeah, the whole book boils down to "the hand of the market will solve errything!". Except that Rand doesn't know that the hand of the market has Parkinson's.
She also kills off every character she sees as weak through their generosity. The book just hits you so hard over the head with her philosophy rather than letting you think.
Fuck. How could I forget mentioning it? I love this book, and the political implications of the story - with powerful States being nuked into mutants, and the little NZ in the middle of nowhere, completely forgotten, is saved by its own lack of relevance. The whole idea of a story within another story, with non-human apes doing human activities (to drive the idea that we are behaving like the other apes too) was genial.
No problem. I'm glad you liked it as well. I definitely read it right after brave new world around high school age. I should really re-read it. It's been a long time.
I dont know why I could never get through brave new world. I tried reading it once when I was in my early 20s and tried the audio book this year and couldn't do it.
I finally read it not long ago, and it was really interesting! Especially given how long ago it was written, seems like it established a lot of the themes you see in modern post apocalyptic media.
I think Le Guins "The Dispossessed" belongs here. Its a dystopian/ utopian comparative about an anarchist planet and a capitalist planet. Highly recommend. I've got a signed copy somewhere.
I have not quite finished the book yet, but Kim Stanley Robinson's The Ministry for the Future is hard-science fiction set in the near future when climate change tipping points start to be reached, and it is so far my favorite book in a long time. It is dystopian, but not bleak or hopeless.
I'd argue this book is a little too hopeful. So many of the solutions to climate change involved every rival economic superpower giving up some of their control to make things better for humanity (e.g. world banks backing a digital currency that rewards removing or preventing the release of carbon from the atmosphere, displacing people from their land to create an unbroken wilderness across the globe, etc.).
I recommend Feed by M.T. Anderson if you wanna see a hopeless dystopia. Schools are run by corporations, young people are apathetic and kept ignorant since they'd rather enjoy a virtual world via brain implants, the oceans are pretty much dead, and the world is on the brink of nuclear war.
That's exactly where I am right now with my reading. I love Sci Fi, but I find myself reading a lot of old sci Fi because there was still some optimism about how the world might turn out.
Do you remember the NationStates site that was set up to help promote the book? Admittedly, I’ve never read it but I spent hours and hours playing on that. Thanks for reminding me of this, will add to my list!
*Neuromancer by William gibson is crazy dark and is the book which started the cyberpunk genre.
The forever war by Joe Hadleman is cynical but not totally dark, still has some awesome dystopic themes which have not lost their power over he years. Hard to say if it could be read as critical of current gender ideology or in support of it.
If you've ever thought about getting into the 40k universe Dan Abnett is great and his writing of female characters gets better over the years.
Alastair Reynolds and peter f Hamilton mention many societies in their space operas and generally have a pretty grim, imo realistic, view of human nature and how it might follow us to the stars.
Brave new world is an interesting concept for those who like dyspotic worlds. IMHO not a great book, still worth a read.
Kayel means Neuromancer, not Necromancer. Don't want you to fall down the wrong rabbit hole.
Also I stand behind all of their points. Neuromancer is cool because its the grand daddy of cyberpunk and predicts stuff like the modern internet and what's starting to seem like our megacorps.
Forever War is one of my favorite sci fi novels of all time. Very influential military theme that seems like a counterpoint to Starship Troopers.
Everything by Dan Abnett is great. He's the best writer employed by Games Workshop. If you don't know much about 40k, his Eisenhorn series is fun. A decent stand alone novel is Double Eagle which is a dark sci fi story modeled after WW2 dogfights. Even the "good guys" in 40k are aggressively dystopian.
Reynolds and Hamilton are on my to read list but haven't gotten there. Do you guys recommend anywhere to start with them?
Thank you friend, it seems we have similar tastes for similar reasons. Would you recommend anything else?
For Reynolds, the revelation space trilogy is he best received and has his biggest ideas. But you could start anywhere. While he has some core themes, his ideas are all over the shop between books; each unique in both style and concepts.
Peter F Hamilton is an odd one. His writing is very male but the hard sci fi ideas and world building are second to none. The darkest place to start is the Confederation universe. The most fun and fantasy adjacent is the Void Trilogy. Despite being a hardcore fan I'm not very well read on him.
For both, their short stories are exquisite, in some cases mind bending and worldview changing.
Yeah I've got the first Revelation Space book waiting for me to open it up, there's just so much out there to read.
If we are talking sci fi dystopias, I'd say Altered Carbon and its sequels are compelling. Skip the Netflix show. We both seem to like military sci fi, and that series has that aspect in spades.
If you haven't read Gibson's stuff after Neuromancer, you might like that too.
His writing is very male
Lol his writing is very phallic? I think I know what you mean.
This is almost the opposite of a dystopia, but I think still fits.
The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin - A character from a utopia returns to dystopian earth. It's primarily the main character wandering around realizing how terrible things could get on our current trajectory. It's great!
Three good novels to see if you have a taste for cyberpunk: The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer and Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson, and Neuromancer by William Gibson. The first is lush and leisurely, the latter two are very lean and fast-paced.
I've read the Neal Stephenson books you mentioned and loved them but I wonder if they're really dystopian? Injustice is certainly a big part of those worlds but I don't find them as bleak and hopeless as some other truly dystopian novels I've read. He seems to explore how new technologies could completely change our societies, but they always feel like worlds that are on the cusp of something new (rather than allowing technology to back themselves into a corner with no hope of improvement).
As a slightly different take I'd recommend SS-GB. Technically it's an alternative history novel whether the Nazis won WWII and conquered the UK.... But that's pretty dystopian in practice, especially when the main character is a policeman.
I don't know if The Trial counts exactly as a dystopia but it certainly conjures up the paranoia and confusion of being caught up in a beruacratic nightmare like you might find in a police state.
High Rise is a great satire on the class system translated to people moving into the then new high rise blocks in the UK - only the rich can afford the apartments at the top and so on. The first sentence involves the hero having to eat a dog to survive.
A Clockwork Orange has been mentioned already, but it's easily my favourite. And very different and more brutal than the film, which is also great but more its own thing. Alex is a much nastier piece of work in the book, and the last chapter of the novel isn't in the film
'Walt To The End Of The World' Suzy McKee Charnas. Centuries after the nuclear war, women are treated as slave/chattel because they caused the War. imho much better than 'Handmaid's Tale.'
It depicts a "socialist" dystopia turning into the ideal libertarian dystopia. Not only does it fail the philosiphical sniff test, its just a bad novel with poor pacing. The climax is a character giving a long ~60 page(??? Read it a long time ago) speech that deflates whatever momentum the story had.
I think a society has to be believable to be a good dystopic novel.
Rands world building is non existent and she treats the society as merely an excuse to write long boring speeches about a world she hardly experienced; instead having a proxy knowledge sourced from drunk old men.
There's also Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I don't recommend it - the book is basically a "if Orwell was right-wing, soapboxing instead of trying to explain what's going on, and with poor writing skills". Seriously.
Yeah if never been interested in Atlas Shrugged, after learning it’s very conservative leaning.
Great suggestions!
Yeah, the whole book boils down to "the hand of the market will solve errything!". Except that Rand doesn't know that the hand of the market has Parkinson's.
She also kills off every character she sees as weak through their generosity. The book just hits you so hard over the head with her philosophy rather than letting you think.
It's popular on the right because of the lack of thinking required.
Not at all what I was getting at.
I read Brave New World &1984 back-to-back and highly recommend it.
Also by Huxley: Ape and Essence. Also a good read. Different though, but still dystopian.
Fuck. How could I forget mentioning it? I love this book, and the political implications of the story - with powerful States being nuked into mutants, and the little NZ in the middle of nowhere, completely forgotten, is saved by its own lack of relevance. The whole idea of a story within another story, with non-human apes doing human activities (to drive the idea that we are behaving like the other apes too) was genial.
Thanks for mentioning it!
No problem. I'm glad you liked it as well. I definitely read it right after brave new world around high school age. I should really re-read it. It's been a long time.
We is so obviously an influence on 1984 I'm surprised it isn't better known!
Brave New World and Clockwork Orange are two of my favorite books period. Great suggestions!
I read We before I read 1984 when I was young and I thought it was amazing. I would add that it's also kind of sci-fi.
I dont know why I could never get through brave new world. I tried reading it once when I was in my early 20s and tried the audio book this year and couldn't do it.
The Stand by Stephen King
I got halfway through this book but sadly it became one of my DNFs.
I know it's not a book but you could also watch the original miniseries, I really like it
The Handmaid’s Tale
Brave New World (kind of dystopian…)
Fahrenheit 451
Upvoted for orgies
Orgy Porgy!
I found "A Canticle for Leibowitz" an astounding read. More apocalyptic than dystopian, but solid.
I finally read it not long ago, and it was really interesting! Especially given how long ago it was written, seems like it established a lot of the themes you see in modern post apocalyptic media.
Oh I haven't read this yet, thanks for the recommend!
The Road, by Cormac McCarthy. Very grim, but beautifully written.
Grim and heartbreaking. Good book though.
I think Le Guins "The Dispossessed" belongs here. Its a dystopian/ utopian comparative about an anarchist planet and a capitalist planet. Highly recommend. I've got a signed copy somewhere.
I have to recommend that people by the book and not the audiobook. Narration matters.
Fahrenheit 451! It's a pleasure to burn!
I have not quite finished the book yet, but Kim Stanley Robinson's The Ministry for the Future is hard-science fiction set in the near future when climate change tipping points start to be reached, and it is so far my favorite book in a long time. It is dystopian, but not bleak or hopeless.
I'd argue this book is a little too hopeful. So many of the solutions to climate change involved every rival economic superpower giving up some of their control to make things better for humanity (e.g. world banks backing a digital currency that rewards removing or preventing the release of carbon from the atmosphere, displacing people from their land to create an unbroken wilderness across the globe, etc.).
I recommend Feed by M.T. Anderson if you wanna see a hopeless dystopia. Schools are run by corporations, young people are apathetic and kept ignorant since they'd rather enjoy a virtual world via brain implants, the oceans are pretty much dead, and the world is on the brink of nuclear war.
Checkout Wool by Hugh Howey. The Silo TV series is based on it, great story!
William Gibson's Sprawl series. Neuromancer, Count Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive.
Just finished the sprawl series—very fun! I would also add Altered Carbon.
I get plenty of dystopian stuff in the news - I advise reading something to escape reality.
That's exactly where I am right now with my reading. I love Sci Fi, but I find myself reading a lot of old sci Fi because there was still some optimism about how the world might turn out.
The MaddAddam Series by Margaret Atwood.
Jennifer Government by Maxx Barry. In fairness I read it 20 years ago and do not know how it's aged. It was good back then though.
I was going to recommend the same. I remember reading it like fifteen years ago and enjoying it.
I read it about 10 years ago and I found it good then 🤷♂️
I read that a few months ago. Still good!
Do you remember the NationStates site that was set up to help promote the book? Admittedly, I’ve never read it but I spent hours and hours playing on that. Thanks for reminding me of this, will add to my list!
I never knew that existed. That's awesome.
*Neuromancer by William gibson is crazy dark and is the book which started the cyberpunk genre.
The forever war by Joe Hadleman is cynical but not totally dark, still has some awesome dystopic themes which have not lost their power over he years. Hard to say if it could be read as critical of current gender ideology or in support of it.
If you've ever thought about getting into the 40k universe Dan Abnett is great and his writing of female characters gets better over the years.
Alastair Reynolds and peter f Hamilton mention many societies in their space operas and generally have a pretty grim, imo realistic, view of human nature and how it might follow us to the stars.
Brave new world is an interesting concept for those who like dyspotic worlds. IMHO not a great book, still worth a read.
Kayel means Neuromancer, not Necromancer. Don't want you to fall down the wrong rabbit hole.
Also I stand behind all of their points. Neuromancer is cool because its the grand daddy of cyberpunk and predicts stuff like the modern internet and what's starting to seem like our megacorps.
Forever War is one of my favorite sci fi novels of all time. Very influential military theme that seems like a counterpoint to Starship Troopers.
Everything by Dan Abnett is great. He's the best writer employed by Games Workshop. If you don't know much about 40k, his Eisenhorn series is fun. A decent stand alone novel is Double Eagle which is a dark sci fi story modeled after WW2 dogfights. Even the "good guys" in 40k are aggressively dystopian.
Reynolds and Hamilton are on my to read list but haven't gotten there. Do you guys recommend anywhere to start with them?
Thank you friend, it seems we have similar tastes for similar reasons. Would you recommend anything else?
For Reynolds, the revelation space trilogy is he best received and has his biggest ideas. But you could start anywhere. While he has some core themes, his ideas are all over the shop between books; each unique in both style and concepts.
Peter F Hamilton is an odd one. His writing is very male but the hard sci fi ideas and world building are second to none. The darkest place to start is the Confederation universe. The most fun and fantasy adjacent is the Void Trilogy. Despite being a hardcore fan I'm not very well read on him.
For both, their short stories are exquisite, in some cases mind bending and worldview changing.
Yeah I've got the first Revelation Space book waiting for me to open it up, there's just so much out there to read.
If we are talking sci fi dystopias, I'd say Altered Carbon and its sequels are compelling. Skip the Netflix show. We both seem to like military sci fi, and that series has that aspect in spades.
If you haven't read Gibson's stuff after Neuromancer, you might like that too.
Lol his writing is very phallic? I think I know what you mean.
This is almost the opposite of a dystopia, but I think still fits.
The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin - A character from a utopia returns to dystopian earth. It's primarily the main character wandering around realizing how terrible things could get on our current trajectory. It's great!
Anarres is a utopia? Don’t tell Shevek that.
Three good novels to see if you have a taste for cyberpunk: The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer and Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson, and Neuromancer by William Gibson. The first is lush and leisurely, the latter two are very lean and fast-paced.
I've read the Neal Stephenson books you mentioned and loved them but I wonder if they're really dystopian? Injustice is certainly a big part of those worlds but I don't find them as bleak and hopeless as some other truly dystopian novels I've read. He seems to explore how new technologies could completely change our societies, but they always feel like worlds that are on the cusp of something new (rather than allowing technology to back themselves into a corner with no hope of improvement).
Metro 2035
I haven't read 2035, I loved 2033, but couldn't get through 2034. Should I retry 2034?
2035 is very differrent from the other 2. Its actually not adventure or horror its a political work reflecting on the modern russia under putin
As a slightly different take I'd recommend SS-GB. Technically it's an alternative history novel whether the Nazis won WWII and conquered the UK.... But that's pretty dystopian in practice, especially when the main character is a policeman.
I don't know if The Trial counts exactly as a dystopia but it certainly conjures up the paranoia and confusion of being caught up in a beruacratic nightmare like you might find in a police state.
High Rise is a great satire on the class system translated to people moving into the then new high rise blocks in the UK - only the rich can afford the apartments at the top and so on. The first sentence involves the hero having to eat a dog to survive.
A Clockwork Orange has been mentioned already, but it's easily my favourite. And very different and more brutal than the film, which is also great but more its own thing. Alex is a much nastier piece of work in the book, and the last chapter of the novel isn't in the film
Wool
Was aslo about to recommend it...
Metroplis by Thea Von Harbeau.
Bonus if you can get the illustrated edition by Michael Kaluta:
https://a.co/d/2mH71xy
Random Acts of Senseless Violence was a good read.
'Walt To The End Of The World' Suzy McKee Charnas. Centuries after the nuclear war, women are treated as slave/chattel because they caused the War. imho much better than 'Handmaid's Tale.'
There is a list on wikipedia:
List of dystopian literature
This isn't exactly helpful or constructive in regards to having a conversation.
Why not? We can all look over the list and discuss the books listed. That's a great way to start a conversation.
Sorry you think that.
I find it interesting and relevant. It is a good source of ideas for answering OPs question.
Or do you insist that it must only be done from memory?
The Giver is a classic. Very beautiful imagery.
Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged
it's a demanding read, but one of the absolute best.
Nope.
Ayn Rand makes me want to call Sargeant Beatty to douse some petrol.
It depicts a "socialist" dystopia turning into the ideal libertarian dystopia. Not only does it fail the philosiphical sniff test, its just a bad novel with poor pacing. The climax is a character giving a long ~60 page(??? Read it a long time ago) speech that deflates whatever momentum the story had.
I think a society has to be believable to be a good dystopic novel.
Rands world building is non existent and she treats the society as merely an excuse to write long boring speeches about a world she hardly experienced; instead having a proxy knowledge sourced from drunk old men.