This will be a terrible mark on human history. When the world watched as internet personalities sailed into Gaza to provide aid. When we did nothing as women and children starved to death before our eyes.
My entire school life there was so much pontification over what "you" would do during segregation or the Holocaust or slavery?
Turns out my entire family would grow a toothbrush moustaches and start painting vegan landscapes while I kept working because the cost of living rises more than wages and I long for the reprieve of death.
These aren't next, these are already forgotten even though they're catastrophes. Hell, even Ukraine is being forgotten even though it's one the biggest wars in 21st century. When India and Pakistan looked like they were about to go to war, this Israel/Palestine war was also pushed to the back of people's minds.
I think this is the just the nature of humans. People want to think they're noble and righteous, but they won't actually do anything, and the moment a new war starts they'll move on to that because it's new and we have short attention spands.
I didn't forget syria. The fact the west is perfectly content with an ex isis leader just tells you everything you need to know about their moral high ground
I think that's a contributing factor, but I don't think it's the only one. We live in the age of social media where anybody anywhere can post anything at any time. Anybody can be a journalist and post pictures, videos, or give live updates as events are happening. In fact we have a lot of people like this from just about every conflict in the world who give us updates just about everyday. Despite this, things like wars are still treated as trends by people. When the fad gets old, people get bored and move on to the next new thing.
Ukraine in society's mind has slipped a lot over the past couple of years. We used to hear about all the terrorist attacks that Russia would commit, and people used to rally support for Ukraine way more passionately. Now, Ukraine is a divisive issue and people only talk about Ukraine when they do a really big and successful military operation.
I hate to say it, but there hasn’t been a time in modern history where there weren’t women and children starving while the rest of the world did nothing.
It is a conscious decision to commit genocide, using Judaism as a cover to protect them from criticism. Intentionally bombing children does mean something is wrong with you IMO
They said they oppose genocide because they're not a psychop*th. That's not appropriate language. We don't use slurs, and we don't blame Zionism on ASPD.
No, they're not. When psychologists become the arbiters of correct morality and pathologise disagreement, society is fucked.
You're thinking of what happens when good people make the rules. But what if people like Freud were in charge of calling certain moral values illnesses? We already have enough problems with things like homosexuality being called a mental illness. What if Trump Derangement Syndrome were in the DSM?
In a certain sense you're right; psychop*th is Greek for "suffering soul". It's supposed to just refer to the abstract idea of mental illness. But in practice, it's a slur against ASPD. And even if that weren't the case, using the Greek word for mentally ill person as an insult is disgusting behaviour.
Jesus, how much have the Zionists modified that Wiki article? A text supposedly about how Israelis dehumanize Palestinians repeatedly starts by reciting the issue with Palestinians and Muslims dehumanizing Jews? This is the first mention of the details of dehumanization:
"Among Palestinians, Israelis have been referred to as pigs, dogs, and bloodsucking vampires, while in Israeli discourse references to Palestinians as savage animals and or repugnant critters has also been attested, and at least once, protesting Gazans have been described as mere ammunition weaponized by their "cannibal" leaders."
And this is the first paragraph under "Background":
"Even though Jews, like a number of other religious minorities, Christians included, were accorded protected status in Islamic societies, the use of abusive stereotypes was not uncommon, some of them were grounded in Quranic and early scholarly traditions."
Is this about Israeli dehumanization of Palestinians? WTF? Let's always start by reciting how Muslims maybe kind of deserve it, or maybe bring the dehumanization on themselves.
No but you antisemites just dont understand! Exterminating the hamas people is the culture of the jewish people¹. So really, by stopping the 'genocide', youre actually doing genocide against a proud 5000 year old culture! Youre literally hitler, who was actually just an innocent tool duped by hamas btw.
¹those weak subhuman diaspora 'jews' may try to mislead you about that. Clearly this is just internalized antisemitism.
Out of curiosity I checked out the inverse article and to my great surprise (/s) it didn’t start by mentioning israely dehumanization of palestinians. It sid however mention someone’s opinion that dehumanization was ignored when palestinians did it.
I dont oppose donald trump because im a democrat or a liberal.
I oppose donald trump because im not a fucking psychopath.
Opposing donald trump is so obvious, so common sense, such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, being a human 101 position that if it isn't immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic facts, your problem is, much, much deeper than whatever ideology or bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There's something wrong with you as a person.
Even most of the conservative politicians in the US seemed to take this approach, until he started winning (read also: liberal politicians failed to counter his right-wing populism).
Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of powerhungry Reds who pursue power for powers sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.
For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.
...
Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being “smeared” as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.
The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged ele¬ ments of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little dif¬ ference whether their wealth and power is challenged by “communist subversives” or “loyal American liberals.” All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.
...
Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish — while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba, provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandelas African National Congress in South Africa.
Nah, tankies are people who defend uses of authority that liberals disagree with: you never see people being called tankies for defending the Nordic countries, even though they are undeniably authoritarian by any leftist definition.
Larping as a 'socialist', sing the internationale on the 1st of May while totally bootlicking US imperialism and (proxy) wars, supporting the genocide state and neoliberal policies/austerity measures at the expense of working class is OK.
That is every EU socialist/labour party.
Actually going against that is not acceptable, then you are indeed called a radical tankie.
Now we're at the point where they want to equate communism with fascism, with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as BS excuse.
Blaming the soviets for causing WW2, etc. and more plain revisionism
Shamelessly pushed by those shitty Balt states that still can't cope that the Soviets beat their nazi grandfathers.
It’s actually a little hard for me to understand why there’s money there. Are there really just that many rich Israelis? What money is there in genocide?
June 2023, Benjamin Mileikowsky later known as Netanyahu, went to the UN assembly, and showed a map for a new middle east. He draw a line of a gas pipe that cross from Qatar all the way to Gaza, leading to Europe.
Prior to that February 2023, Israel signed a deal with Lebanon and Hezbollah for maritime border and gas mining.
Prior to that, not sure when exactly, but there were an estimated billions worth of gas and oil off the shore of Gaza.
With Europe still dependent on Russian gas and oil, European countries are looking for alternative.
This is made Palestinian realized that they will be crushed. For Zionist to establish these massive supply chain, they need to address Palestinian. Hamas decided to put Israel and the world in confrontation of its own colonist project, this base on a statement by Sinwar. Otherwise, it will be a slow death without much backlash.
This is in regards of current event and how many play into it.
There are also the other side. The US economy completely dependent on Military. Zionist knew this very earlier, all they have to do is to angle themselves in a situation where they control the US government to benefit the most.
Before that Zionist ideology “a Jew State” which ironically similar to “Islamic State” aka “ISIS” as a concept started earlier than WWI.
this ideology is supported by two group:
Jew Zionist such and Christian Zionist.
You can look into how Zionist started, and how one of the richest family in the world influenced the initial promise by UK for European Jew to take over Palestine here more about it:
You can get lost in this because it will answer question, how they control media, US government, and most Tech companies. Mix that with religious view for multiple groups and you will end up with the most pure and supported genocidal project in modern times.
P.S: there are also part of association with Nazi Germany, and conspiracy theories about where the Nazi gold went, control of banks in NewYork, and even facts regarding Maxwell a double UK and Mosad agent and the father of Epstein assistance running a blackmail ring in the US. Along with fact regarding how every hotel / room in Israel is most likely have spy camera ( they also tried to put spy camera in the washroom after visiting the UK PM a while back) and you end up with fuck tons of power over influencer people.
It's not that "war is bad" in this case. It's that people fear that it's a small jump from "the govt of Israel is bad for killing Gazans" to "Israel is bad" to "the idea of Israel is bad" to "Jews are bad".
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
Israel is destroying its reputation and its future with its current actions. Yet no power in the world can stop them today, because they have waay too many weapons.
I think there will be consequences for innocent Jews who have nothing to do with the Israeli genocide. This sort of behavior gives ammo and a perception of legitimacy to antisemites. Israel is making things harder for Jews worldwide for years to come.
Have there been consequences for the United States' or Canada's genocides against Indigenous peoples? Not really.
People can just get away with things unless you make them pay for it.
EDIT case in point, 200 years from now we could be celebrating the jewel of democracy Israel, while "acknowledging its troubled past" but you're still doing this over the bones of the people your predecessors slaughtered. I'm not even saying it wouldn't be genuine, like people today in the US and Canada bemoan the actions of previous colonizers. But the fact of what happened remains immutable. The slaughter happened, and the people who committed it accomplished their aims. They got away with it.
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
Possibly, but that won't help the dead kids. The focus must be on stopping the genocide as quickly as possible. Finding and punishing the perps can wait.
I mean.... I've been saying similar stuff for a while. I'm not on anyone's side specifically. I live far enough away to not be affected by the situation and for my opinion to have no affect on the situation. Simply put: it's not useful for me to have an opinion, so I don't have one.
HOWEVER: I always have and always will oppose the unnecessary death and cruelty happening. Doesn't matter where, or who, or when... If some group is killing another group, I don't like that.
The only good reason to use violence on a global stage is to stop violence; aka self defense. Like what's happening to the Ukraine, as a simple example. The Ukraine is well within their right to defend themselves and their land from a foreign invader. I am opposed to the Russian army marching across international borders and seizing land by killing whomever tries to stop them and/or whomever is there. Not cool. I dislike Russia's actions there. I don't dislike Russia's or Russians, I don't have a problem with any individual person. I have a problem with the decision that was made at the highest levels of government to invade.
Same thing here. I could not care less which side is comprised of what people's of what culture or religion.... I just don't like that one group is invading/bombing/killing the other. I have no animosity towards those defending themselves, trying to not get killed...
I don't know why everyone needs to make every opinion on the matter a question of race, religion, or whatever. I don't care, just stop murdering eachother.
For some people it's just habit. Ukraine has been commonly known in the West as "the" Ukraine for a very long time, and humans are known to make mistakes.
Caring has nothing to do with your paycheck, caring is about basic human empathy. I wouldn't be surprised when lower income would care more than higher.
According to a recent pen state uni poll, 80% of Israeli society support the forced removal of Palestinians from Gaza. If we follow the reasoning in this post, the Israeli society is kinda locco ◑﹏◐
Either that, or the psychological abuse techniques that militaries do to turn normal people into obedient soldiers are effective. Israel has compulsory military service, so nearly all of the population of the country went through it. That's how they get that 80% support.
One thing I've noticed is that many people will accuse you of supporting genocide if you say anything positive about Israel (and by that I mean anything not explicitly negative), or fail to condemn anybody who has failed to condemn Israel, or if you don't spit immediately after saying the word "Israel". Same if you point out that the Biden administration in November was actively negotiating the ceasefire that went into effect a day or two after Trump's inauguration, even as people were calling Harris a nazi and refusing to vote for her because she was "complicit". It's like people expect world politics and diplomacy to operate at the same speed as meme outrage.
You'll find that kind of bs from every extremist faction, "oh you support Gaza, immigration, human rights and welfare, you must be a woke tankie communist" and "oh you're not an anti-capitalist far-left anti-money extremist commie tankie, you must be a dirty fascist" basically a summary or american politics🤦♂️ 🤡
Edit: the downvotes are just proving my point lol I'm literally saying the exact same thing said in the screenshot. There's not just two opposing extremes there's nuance to things, don't fight stupidity with stupidity, just cause magas fascist and extreme doesn't mean I should go find the equally opposing extreme.
I don't disagree with Trump just cause he's Trump, I disagree with his actions and the bs he says, and based off of those actions I think he's a knobhead and do not like him. When he pardoned Ross Ulbricht I didn't say, well it was done by Trump so it was evil. Do I think he did it for his own personal motives or gain and votershare? Yes, but I do believe he deserved freedom, and Trump did it for the wrong reasons.
Americans don't get it's not the centre of the universe sometimes.
I'm including a link from a news report released yesterday at the bottom of this comment.
I'll save you from actually clicking on it and watching this horrific video, and just let you know, it's a 5 yo girl in Gaza trapped in a burning building after it was bombed by the Israeli army. The building is a former school the girl had been sheltering in along with her parents, younger sibling, and several others.
She screams in pain as she desperately tries to escape from the flames, and people outside scream for help as they watch her running around inside. Luckily a fireman was able to help her escape, but she was horribly burned and lost her entire family. The reporter later finds her in a hospital several weeks later, trying to recover and crying out for her mother.
If you still feel from that description that ignoring what is happening right now is acceptable or you're pretending it can somehow be justified in any context, you should make yourself watch the video. Keep in mind this is one of countless stories like it.
It's extremely disturbing because what's happening is literally extreme and should make any human capable of empathy uncomfortable. It's easier to ignore it and pretend it's not happening, but that's always the case with genocide.
If watching the video and knowing all of this still changes nothing for you, then you should also know you are literally showing callous and unemotional traits associated with psychopathy. That's not BS, it's a fact of reality.
BRO, did I not say I was staunchly against Zionism. I explicitly said that, I mentioned how in the screenshot the person making the post said that she isn't against Israel because she's a communist, anti-Jews, anarchist or far-left, but because she's against genocide. Fuck Israel and Zionism but not Jews, I could not make that any more clear, I'm saying extremists always believe that when people disagree with anything at all they automatically believe they are extreme in the opposite direction.
I replied to your original comment before you added the additional information, and apologize if I misunderstood. Just going by your shorter original comment though, it seemed like you were arguing that OP pointing out the fact that ignoring/taking a neutral stance/downplaying or denying that what is happening right now is psychopathic, is somehow itself an extremist stance to take.
Just to be 100% clear, absolutely fuck antisemitism, but OP's post doesn't say anything remotely antisemitic.
The argument is simply that regardless of politics, identity, history, or anything else, as humans, knowing what is happening to other humans in Gaza right now in this moment, we can't acknowledge reality and pretend that it's anything other than genocide.
That shouldn't be an extreme opinion, but somehow people will repeatedly argue that it is.
I agree with all this but I feel like Americans are the last people who should lead such a movement. To so many of us, the ones your country has raped and destroyed without apology, i roll my eyes at Americans calling for the end of colonization, genocides and war. It’s like you guys think if you go hard on this war, it will forgive all the centuries of genocide. My people were treated like refuse by Americans for decades, then without apology or reparations , white American kids are now preaching at my indigenous ass about privilege and genocide.
You can’t even call out the hypocrisy or you get hated on. I’ve never experienced as much hate and racism towards my culture from the left, as I have this past 2 years. You expect that shit from the right, but the American left went insane this cycle too
It certainly gets complicated when America is such a melting pot, and it’s consistently the white overlords who engineer those atrocities.
And yes, many, but not all, of the white underlings choose to give them their full support. As a white underling throwing them the middle finger, I have no idea why.
I am for a 2 state solution, and a version of the Neuremburg Trials for both the IDF and Hamas for their crimes against humanity. Gaza should be a part of Palestine, as with the West Bank, with the settlers in both having to move back, and return the land to it's owners prior. Palestine and Israel seperated by UN peacekeepers at both sides, is my solution for preventing further invasions. Free and fair elections for Palestine, should occur.
Both those who think 1 state as Israel or Palestine are insane.
I think because he’s talking about how to split land. Palestinians has been displaced many times before being slaughtered, so their deaths would be focused into smaller areas.
It still doesn’t work well though, because many Palestinians consider the current Israel region to be their home.
Thats a really good point. The palestinians come out on top as well on that one so it doesn't make that much difference to my point, but no absolutely living human beings are more important.
For real. I genuinely like Israel and have many israeli friends still but the incompetence of Israel government is so staggering it's imposdible to align with even if you think Hamas deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history.
Recent polls show 81% of the Israeli population agree that Palestine should be ethnically cleansed. It's not just the government, and it's not "incompetence", it's deliberate malice.
And Hamas's crimes are a drop in the ocean compared to Israel, so if you think Hamas "deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history," what do you think Israel deserves?
One's guilty of genocide, one's arguably guilty of going overboard in self-defense of said genocide, though I don't know how much of it is hasbara and how much of it real so I don't really feel like I'm in a position to judge if they actually went overboard and you can thank the Apartheid Regime of West Palestine for that.
What do you think ethnically cleansed means? Or du you think Gaza will remain once all the Palestinians have disappeared and settlers have taken their place?
i didn’t read it like that… i read it in the same way that you might read that you like many american people, but their government are frequently massive twats… the country is not the people, and in both cases there was (is) genocide involved
Israel, the country, has apartheid enshrined in its constitution. And there never was a genocide of zionists. Indeed the zionists used the holocaust and other european antisemitic persecutions to their advantage
Despite that it's the only country in the middle east where you'll not be tortured and murdered for being gay so umm there's clearly something to like here, no?
You realise that Islam is not a monolith but one of the worlds largest religions? That there are LGBTQ+ muslims? Muslim allies? Honestly this idea that there is a "one true Islam" is as ridiculous for Islam as it is for any other religion.
Shut up, killing innocent civilians is a war crime. It doesn't matter what your justification is, killing civilians is wrong and if you don't feel bad about it you are broken inside.
As I know we have no other information source about hamas using civilian infrastructure like hospitals as military bases than the IDF. That's because no external journalists are allowed in gaza by the IDF. And in the beginning exactly this IDF also claimed they don't target hospitals and it was a hamas rocket that hit the biggest hospital of gaza. Now there is not a single hospital left. So maybe we shouldn't believe this kind of information. Also there are other methods than bombing the whole area if the enemy is really using civilian infrastructure as military bases. So it's still on the attacker if civilians die. Especially if the attacker has massive military capacities and options for other methods like in the case of the IDF.
The people that drop bombs on civilians are responsible for killing civilians.
The people who starve a population are responsible for starving a population.
Ah, yes, the genocide and its fascist underpinnings created by seculer atheists inspired by Renaissance and Enlightenment ideals are completely the fault of religion.
This is like saying "well are you just gonna ignore that some Jewish bankers are doing nefarious crimes?" in 1943.
It is absolutely fucking negligible in comparison, not to mention directly funded by Israel so that they would have an excuse for their indiscriminate slaughter. Give Palestinians a country, their homes, and restitution for decades of apartheid and then we can talk about what kind of problem Hamas is.
Let's compare the numbers, so far a 1200 Israeli's were murdered on the opening day, and maybe 100 more deaths from combat. Total deaths 1300-ish. In the Gaza strip alone over 62,000-ish people have been killed. Using Israel's numbers from before the war they estimated maybe 50,000 active Hamas members. It's orders of magnitude different. Even assuming Hamas died first that still means Israel murdered 12,000 innocent people. Hamas is bad, but the state of Israel is a genocidal monster.
62,000 is the number of confirmed munitions deaths and it's been frozen for months. The actual total killed has been estimated in the arena of half a million.
There will always be collateral damage even though it’s very hard to justify and basically impossible to justify when there’s children involved. I will point out that the line between Hamas combatant and “civilian” can be very grey. Palestinians voted for Hamas knowing they had a mandate to destroy Israel. On the oct 7 attacks Hamas were joined by non combatants. Imagine your army marching down your street on their way to kill your neighbour so you put down what you’re doing to join them and kill your neighbour too. This is basically what happened
For anyone seeing this comment this nunber also a lie. Last proven around 700 or 800 killed ignoring how many killed by Israeli themselves shilling homes where hamas had israeli hostages and cars that trying to get into gaza with hostages.
They didn't kill 1200, and even if they had, that number is negligible compared to the amount of Palestinians Israel had already murdered before October 7th, and basically 0 compared to how many they've killed since.
You're just ignoring the Germans butchered in the warsaw uprising? I am definitely not a psychopath and there was definitely a good reason for a bunch of German "civilians" to be outside a ghetto in a foreign country.
The place they marched into is where their parents and grandparents lived before Israel ethnically cleansed it, driving them into the ghetto they're currently in.
There's a difference in time scale here; there's still living people who remember the nakba. But indigenous people are absolutely justified in resisting their own oppression. Also the immediate purpose of getting hostages was to get Israel to release hostages it took first.
It’s a shitty situation. I’m not sure what you do when both sides are committed to the total destruction of the other. The painful truth is someone is going to be the loser
Thank you for an intelligible response. If we run the hypothetical of what would have happened if Israel allowed hamas to become its own country with its own military, how likely would Hamas have used that power along with help from it’s neighbours like Iran, to develop nuclear weapons or at least a strong conventional army? If there was ever a fork in the road it would be when the Palestinian people elected Hamas knowing their mandate was the total destruction of Israel. They carried out that mandate with everything they were given from Israel and the international community. They used it all to buy rockets and build tunnels for themselves for use for when Israel retaliated. The fact civilians are being killed is part of hamas’s plan to get more international support, no civilians are allowed in the tunnels. Judging by this website it appears to be working well. I really wish we could have seen what happened if Israel withdrew from the West Bank and allowed the Palestinians time to live their lives. There is absolutely blame on both sides.
Even Netanyahu himself says that the ratio of civilian deaths is over 50%.
Over 50%! From the horse's mouth!
Most experts have it at 80%, but even Netanyahu's figure is fucking insane. If not a genocide, it's an absolutely negligent way to run a conflict, with zero value given for human life.
"BuT HaMaS hIDeS iN TuNnELs"....and Israel has one of the best equipped militaries in the world. How big is their drone fleet? If you can't figure out how to take out 1 dude without disintegrating an entire city block, then you need to quit.
So the "best case" scenario is "The Israel government is extremely irresponsible with weapons and needs to stop". Whether or not you think it qualifies as a "genocide", it needs to fucking stop, we need to stop supplying them with weapons, and the world needs to apply more pressure. We can Nuremberg it up later, after the children have stopped being brutally and needlessly murdered.
Or maybe you don’t oppose the “white genocide” because you know it’s an anti-semitic conspiracy theory?
Yes. That one. Obviously.
I respect your noble dedication to epistemology, but at some stage it's perfectly reasonable to say that herding millions of people into an increasingly small area whilst forcibly starving and bombing them is a genocide, whilst having an immigrant population of barely 15% is not a genocide.
Erm… Virtually every human rights organisation on the planet have done their research and confirm a genocide is being committed. As well as international courts.
Like the old adage goes, if one person thinks you’re a cunt you’re likely not a cunt, If everybody thinks you’re a cunt chances are you are in fact a cunt.
This will be a terrible mark on human history. When the world watched as internet personalities sailed into Gaza to provide aid. When we did nothing as women and children starved to death before our eyes.
Who will be ignored next?
My entire school life there was so much pontification over what "you" would do during segregation or the Holocaust or slavery?
Turns out my entire family would grow a toothbrush moustaches and start painting vegan landscapes while I kept working because the cost of living rises more than wages and I long for the reprieve of death.
These aren't next, these are already forgotten even though they're catastrophes. Hell, even Ukraine is being forgotten even though it's one the biggest wars in 21st century. When India and Pakistan looked like they were about to go to war, this Israel/Palestine war was also pushed to the back of people's minds.
I think this is the just the nature of humans. People want to think they're noble and righteous, but they won't actually do anything, and the moment a new war starts they'll move on to that because it's new and we have short attention spands.
How fast we forgot Syria. Erdogan still bombing Kobane for example.
You are entirely correct. People like to think the war is over, but it's still very much on going.
I didn't forget syria. The fact the west is perfectly content with an ex isis leader just tells you everything you need to know about their moral high ground
I think it's media bias and sensationalism. It happens when journalism has a profit incentive and is owned by 4 or 5 oligarchs/ultra-wealthy.
I think that's a contributing factor, but I don't think it's the only one. We live in the age of social media where anybody anywhere can post anything at any time. Anybody can be a journalist and post pictures, videos, or give live updates as events are happening. In fact we have a lot of people like this from just about every conflict in the world who give us updates just about everyday. Despite this, things like wars are still treated as trends by people. When the fad gets old, people get bored and move on to the next new thing.
How is ukraine forgetten we're constantly told that we should buy more bombs. Meanwhile i can't see my mum because hospitals are understaffed
Ukraine in society's mind has slipped a lot over the past couple of years. We used to hear about all the terrorist attacks that Russia would commit, and people used to rally support for Ukraine way more passionately. Now, Ukraine is a divisive issue and people only talk about Ukraine when they do a really big and successful military operation.
I hate to say it, but there hasn’t been a time in modern history where there weren’t women and children starving while the rest of the world did nothing.
You shouldn't blame Zionism on a mental illness. Zionism is a choice to be awful.
Faith isn’t the reason, it’s the excuse
I didn't say it was faith either. It's not mental illness or faith.
To be fair the OP didn’t call it mental illness either. They said something was wrong with them as a person.
It is a conscious decision to commit genocide, using Judaism as a cover to protect them from criticism. Intentionally bombing children does mean something is wrong with you IMO
religion is a powerful motivator, often used to get gullibles to commit awful crimes
Ah yes it's not a genocide because they didn't kill enough people yet
They said they oppose genocide because they're not a psychop*th. That's not appropriate language. We don't use slurs, and we don't blame Zionism on ASPD.
... Psychopath is a slur?
I think all fascism is a mental illness.
Luckily, there is a treatment, as demonstrated by one of its most famous sufferers. It can even be self administered!
I'm all for suicide jokes, but equating fascism with mental illness is taking the joke too far.
More like a plague, but it is. It is genuinely a sickness.
Edit: fascists are not well, and should not be allowed to make decisions.
Neurodivergent people should be allowed to make decisions. Fascists should be shot. That's the difference.
Sure, because theyre a danger to the rest of us, it's incurable, and they're in terrible suffering. And also because it's funny.
It's a mind virus
Exactly. Lots of people are mentally ill and not fascists
Are bad/lacking morals a mental illness? Seriously, at what point do we draw the line? It's a curious topic.
No, they're not. When psychologists become the arbiters of correct morality and pathologise disagreement, society is fucked.
You're thinking of what happens when good people make the rules. But what if people like Freud were in charge of calling certain moral values illnesses? We already have enough problems with things like homosexuality being called a mental illness. What if Trump Derangement Syndrome were in the DSM?
It’s working it’s way in there. Give it a few more years and they’ll be able to institutionalize us for TDS.
IDK but I've definitely self-diagnosed with it.
That's not what she does. Being a bad person or even being a psychopath is not considered a mental illness.
In a certain sense you're right; psychop*th is Greek for "suffering soul". It's supposed to just refer to the abstract idea of mental illness. But in practice, it's a slur against ASPD. And even if that weren't the case, using the Greek word for mentally ill person as an insult is disgusting behaviour.
I'm talking about psychology, not history. Sociopathy is not considered an illness.
"Yeah but Palestinians are subhuman and therefore don't deserve human empathy" - Israel,
probablyactuallyAnimal stereotypes of Palestinians in Israeli discourse - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse
Jesus, how much have the Zionists modified that Wiki article? A text supposedly about how Israelis dehumanize Palestinians repeatedly starts by reciting the issue with Palestinians and Muslims dehumanizing Jews? This is the first mention of the details of dehumanization:
"Among Palestinians, Israelis have been referred to as pigs, dogs, and bloodsucking vampires, while in Israeli discourse references to Palestinians as savage animals and or repugnant critters has also been attested, and at least once, protesting Gazans have been described as mere ammunition weaponized by their "cannibal" leaders."
And this is the first paragraph under "Background":
"Even though Jews, like a number of other religious minorities, Christians included, were accorded protected status in Islamic societies, the use of abusive stereotypes was not uncommon, some of them were grounded in Quranic and early scholarly traditions."
Is this about Israeli dehumanization of Palestinians? WTF? Let's always start by reciting how Muslims maybe kind of deserve it, or maybe bring the dehumanization on themselves.
No but you antisemites just dont understand! Exterminating the hamas people is the culture of the jewish people¹. So really, by stopping the 'genocide', youre actually doing genocide against a proud 5000 year old culture! Youre literally hitler, who was actually just an innocent tool duped by hamas btw.
¹those weak subhuman diaspora 'jews' may try to mislead you about that. Clearly this is just internalized antisemitism.
Out of curiosity I checked out the inverse article and to my great surprise (/s) it didn’t start by mentioning israely dehumanization of palestinians. It sid however mention someone’s opinion that dehumanization was ignored when palestinians did it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Jews_in_Palestinian_discourse
I dont oppose donald trump because im a democrat or a liberal.
I oppose donald trump because im not a fucking psychopath.
Opposing donald trump is so obvious, so common sense, such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, being a human 101 position that if it isn't immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic facts, your problem is, much, much deeper than whatever ideology or bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There's something wrong with you as a person.
Even most of the conservative politicians in the US seemed to take this approach, until he started winning (read also: liberal politicians failed to counter his right-wing populism).
What is the point of this completely off topic non-sequitor?
It's the same template as the original post. Parallels are being drawn between support for Trump and support for Israeli genocide.
Yes, and that's completely off topic
Yes, but I'm also a commie lol.
Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of powerhungry Reds who pursue power for powers sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.
For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.
...
Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being “smeared” as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.
The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged ele¬ ments of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little dif¬ ference whether their wealth and power is challenged by “communist subversives” or “loyal American liberals.” All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.
...
Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish — while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba, provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandelas African National Congress in South Africa.
I can agree with that.
Only if theyre cute enough to put up with their bullshit.
I did. She's my wife now.
Leftist infighting serves the capitalists
Yeah, but they're not actually a leftist
There are no true scotsmen except me
Small world on lemmy, but Brain is a troll. Just check them out. All their history is derailing conversations and demoralizing leftist movements.
"I don’t understand" is sufficient.
You spotted another paid troll to had to the list ?!
Nah, tankies are people who defend uses of authority that liberals disagree with: you never see people being called tankies for defending the Nordic countries, even though they are undeniably authoritarian by any leftist definition.
Reddit leftists maybe lmao
Thanks for that perfectly circular argument.
And a very fuck you, too, comrade. :)
You're nobody's comrade.
Nazi supporters should keep that word out of their filthy mouths.
???? Support that accusation with any facts about me.
Fascist pig
projection, I feast on your tears
back to Hasan's Twitch stream now please.
Hasan is a tankie?
Everyone to the left of the Democratic Party is a tankie.
Larping as a 'socialist', sing the internationale on the 1st of May while totally bootlicking US imperialism and (proxy) wars, supporting the genocide state and neoliberal policies/austerity measures at the expense of working class is OK.
That is every EU socialist/labour party.
Actually going against that is not acceptable, then you are indeed called a radical tankie.
Now we're at the point where they want to equate communism with fascism, with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as BS excuse.
Blaming the soviets for causing WW2, etc. and more plain revisionism Shamelessly pushed by those shitty Balt states that still can't cope that the Soviets beat their nazi grandfathers.
Well said. Tankie is a term used by people who think The New Deal was peak socialism
Tankie Sanders lol
Sanders is a democrat, and thus represents the most left wing position that won't (usually) get called tankie
Yes yes, everyone you disagree with is secretly a paid agent.
Literally always has been. Look at like half of what this dude does.
What does tankie mean to you?
Back to supporting fascists for you then
This person LOVES HITLER!
-The ADL and MOST American Politicians!
OMG, so antisemitic... /s
You can spot lizard people by their lack of empathy towards humans. Clear sign they aren't human.
let's discuss why people are supporting governments, politicians and companies backing the genocide
Follow the money
Also racism
It’s actually a little hard for me to understand why there’s money there. Are there really just that many rich Israelis? What money is there in genocide?
Right wing Christians in America regularly send money to Israel because they believe it will bring about the end times (not joking)
Also, there is a lot of money in the military industrial complex, American arms manufacturers always need a customer.
June 2023, Benjamin Mileikowsky later known as Netanyahu, went to the UN assembly, and showed a map for a new middle east. He draw a line of a gas pipe that cross from Qatar all the way to Gaza, leading to Europe.
Prior to that February 2023, Israel signed a deal with Lebanon and Hezbollah for maritime border and gas mining.
Prior to that, not sure when exactly, but there were an estimated billions worth of gas and oil off the shore of Gaza.
With Europe still dependent on Russian gas and oil, European countries are looking for alternative.
This is made Palestinian realized that they will be crushed. For Zionist to establish these massive supply chain, they need to address Palestinian. Hamas decided to put Israel and the world in confrontation of its own colonist project, this base on a statement by Sinwar. Otherwise, it will be a slow death without much backlash.
This is in regards of current event and how many play into it.
There are also the other side. The US economy completely dependent on Military. Zionist knew this very earlier, all they have to do is to angle themselves in a situation where they control the US government to benefit the most.
Before that Zionist ideology “a Jew State” which ironically similar to “Islamic State” aka “ISIS” as a concept started earlier than WWI.
this ideology is supported by two group: Jew Zionist such and Christian Zionist.
You can look into how Zionist started, and how one of the richest family in the world influenced the initial promise by UK for European Jew to take over Palestine here more about it:
Edmond James de Rothschild https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_James_de_Rothschild
You can get lost in this because it will answer question, how they control media, US government, and most Tech companies. Mix that with religious view for multiple groups and you will end up with the most pure and supported genocidal project in modern times.
P.S: there are also part of association with Nazi Germany, and conspiracy theories about where the Nazi gold went, control of banks in NewYork, and even facts regarding Maxwell a double UK and Mosad agent and the father of Epstein assistance running a blackmail ring in the US. Along with fact regarding how every hotel / room in Israel is most likely have spy camera ( they also tried to put spy camera in the washroom after visiting the UK PM a while back) and you end up with fuck tons of power over influencer people.
Because western ideology is ultimately ultranationalism, they will always support their country against others.
Isn't being against war and genocide the same as anti-imperialism? I hate how saying "War is bad" has become so controversial and extremist.
This is only looking at the surface level....
It's not that "war is bad" in this case. It's that people fear that it's a small jump from "the govt of Israel is bad for killing Gazans" to "Israel is bad" to "the idea of Israel is bad" to "Jews are bad".
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
Israel is destroying its reputation and its future with its current actions. Yet no power in the world can stop them today, because they have waay too many weapons.
I think there will be consequences for innocent Jews who have nothing to do with the Israeli genocide. This sort of behavior gives ammo and a perception of legitimacy to antisemites. Israel is making things harder for Jews worldwide for years to come.
This is why it is important to separate anti-semitism and anti-zionism.
A thing that Israel is actively working against
The death of religious spirituality at the hands of religious identity.
Have there been consequences for the United States' or Canada's genocides against Indigenous peoples? Not really.
People can just get away with things unless you make them pay for it.
EDIT case in point, 200 years from now we could be celebrating the jewel of democracy Israel, while "acknowledging its troubled past" but you're still doing this over the bones of the people your predecessors slaughtered. I'm not even saying it wouldn't be genuine, like people today in the US and Canada bemoan the actions of previous colonizers. But the fact of what happened remains immutable. The slaughter happened, and the people who committed it accomplished their aims. They got away with it.
I hope you're right.
Possibly, but that won't help the dead kids. The focus must be on stopping the genocide as quickly as possible. Finding and punishing the perps can wait.
I mean.... I've been saying similar stuff for a while. I'm not on anyone's side specifically. I live far enough away to not be affected by the situation and for my opinion to have no affect on the situation. Simply put: it's not useful for me to have an opinion, so I don't have one.
HOWEVER: I always have and always will oppose the unnecessary death and cruelty happening. Doesn't matter where, or who, or when... If some group is killing another group, I don't like that.
The only good reason to use violence on a global stage is to stop violence; aka self defense. Like what's happening to the Ukraine, as a simple example. The Ukraine is well within their right to defend themselves and their land from a foreign invader. I am opposed to the Russian army marching across international borders and seizing land by killing whomever tries to stop them and/or whomever is there. Not cool. I dislike Russia's actions there. I don't dislike Russia's or Russians, I don't have a problem with any individual person. I have a problem with the decision that was made at the highest levels of government to invade.
Same thing here. I could not care less which side is comprised of what people's of what culture or religion.... I just don't like that one group is invading/bombing/killing the other. I have no animosity towards those defending themselves, trying to not get killed...
I don't know why everyone needs to make every opinion on the matter a question of race, religion, or whatever. I don't care, just stop murdering eachother.
Note: It's Ukraine, not "the Ukraine".
Calling it "the Ukraine" is Russian propaganda.
https://theconversation.com/its-ukraine-not-the-ukraine-heres-why-178748
For some people it's just habit. Ukraine has been commonly known in the West as "the" Ukraine for a very long time, and humans are known to make mistakes.
🛩️
I only know her from claiming there will be no Russian invasion while it already had begun. Later, she is peddling Russian propaganda. Moron.
Thanks for letting me know. I've edited out her details so only the message is visible.
Caring has nothing to do with your paycheck, caring is about basic human empathy. I wouldn't be surprised when lower income would care more than higher.
It doesn't take complex research to understand one side killed 100x more than the other one. All it took me was a wikipedia page
How can they have time to consume media that talk about Gaza?
That's one way to control the crowds, make them too busy to think outside the rat race.
According to a recent pen state uni poll, 80% of Israeli society support the forced removal of Palestinians from Gaza. If we follow the reasoning in this post, the Israeli society is kinda locco ◑﹏◐
Either that, or the psychological abuse techniques that militaries do to turn normal people into obedient soldiers are effective. Israel has compulsory military service, so nearly all of the population of the country went through it. That's how they get that 80% support.
how do I boost on lemmy
This astrology grifter is phony AF. She suddenly became political a few years ago by promoting the invasion of ukraine. Peak russian asset.
Notice the implied anti-semitism and missing zionism. It's a pattern.
Please don't promote this crap just because it sounds "good". Free Palestine.
What antisemitism is being implied?
Ad hominem. Doesn't invalidate the words above.
I noticed no implied anti-semitism. I noticed explicit criticism of the Israeli government.
True. Promote it to highlight the genocide that is currently occurring.
Agreed, but I suspect yours isn’t genuine.
"She suddenly became political a few years ago by promoting the invasion of ukraine. Peak russian asset."
Is it an ad hominem when you include the rest which explains the claim made you excerpted?
Yes. Any attacking of the messenger to deflect from the message is ad hominem.
And trying to move the attention from Israeli genocide onto a tangential topic is called forum sliding.
Thanks for the headsup. I've edited out her details so only the message is visible.
I also do not oppose them for those same reasons.
Also all of those reasons (except love hamas/hate jews), but not just because of those.
Haha, I read your comment pre-edit at first but assumed it was an oversight!
I also agree with your agreement with OP to not oppose them for those same reasons.
NGL... Yuh
One thing I've noticed is that many people will accuse you of supporting genocide if you say anything positive about Israel (and by that I mean anything not explicitly negative), or fail to condemn anybody who has failed to condemn Israel, or if you don't spit immediately after saying the word "Israel". Same if you point out that the Biden administration in November was actively negotiating the ceasefire that went into effect a day or two after Trump's inauguration, even as people were calling Harris a nazi and refusing to vote for her because she was "complicit". It's like people expect world politics and diplomacy to operate at the same speed as meme outrage.
You'll find that kind of bs from every extremist faction, "oh you support Gaza, immigration, human rights and welfare, you must be a woke tankie communist" and "oh you're not an anti-capitalist far-left anti-money extremist commie tankie, you must be a dirty fascist" basically a summary or american politics🤦♂️ 🤡
Edit: the downvotes are just proving my point lol I'm literally saying the exact same thing said in the screenshot. There's not just two opposing extremes there's nuance to things, don't fight stupidity with stupidity, just cause magas fascist and extreme doesn't mean I should go find the equally opposing extreme.
I don't disagree with Trump just cause he's Trump, I disagree with his actions and the bs he says, and based off of those actions I think he's a knobhead and do not like him. When he pardoned Ross Ulbricht I didn't say, well it was done by Trump so it was evil. Do I think he did it for his own personal motives or gain and votershare? Yes, but I do believe he deserved freedom, and Trump did it for the wrong reasons.
Americans don't get it's not the centre of the universe sometimes.
I'm including a link from a news report released yesterday at the bottom of this comment.
I'll save you from actually clicking on it and watching this horrific video, and just let you know, it's a 5 yo girl in Gaza trapped in a burning building after it was bombed by the Israeli army. The building is a former school the girl had been sheltering in along with her parents, younger sibling, and several others.
She screams in pain as she desperately tries to escape from the flames, and people outside scream for help as they watch her running around inside. Luckily a fireman was able to help her escape, but she was horribly burned and lost her entire family. The reporter later finds her in a hospital several weeks later, trying to recover and crying out for her mother.
If you still feel from that description that ignoring what is happening right now is acceptable or you're pretending it can somehow be justified in any context, you should make yourself watch the video. Keep in mind this is one of countless stories like it.
It's extremely disturbing because what's happening is literally extreme and should make any human capable of empathy uncomfortable. It's easier to ignore it and pretend it's not happening, but that's always the case with genocide.
If watching the video and knowing all of this still changes nothing for you, then you should also know you are literally showing callous and unemotional traits associated with psychopathy. That's not BS, it's a fact of reality.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000010207629/gaza-israeli-strike-palestinian-girl-silhouette-fire.html
BRO, did I not say I was staunchly against Zionism. I explicitly said that, I mentioned how in the screenshot the person making the post said that she isn't against Israel because she's a communist, anti-Jews, anarchist or far-left, but because she's against genocide. Fuck Israel and Zionism but not Jews, I could not make that any more clear, I'm saying extremists always believe that when people disagree with anything at all they automatically believe they are extreme in the opposite direction.
I replied to your original comment before you added the additional information, and apologize if I misunderstood. Just going by your shorter original comment though, it seemed like you were arguing that OP pointing out the fact that ignoring/taking a neutral stance/downplaying or denying that what is happening right now is psychopathic, is somehow itself an extremist stance to take.
Just to be 100% clear, absolutely fuck antisemitism, but OP's post doesn't say anything remotely antisemitic.
The argument is simply that regardless of politics, identity, history, or anything else, as humans, knowing what is happening to other humans in Gaza right now in this moment, we can't acknowledge reality and pretend that it's anything other than genocide.
That shouldn't be an extreme opinion, but somehow people will repeatedly argue that it is.
Antitanks trying to not bring up tankies in every conversation challenge: impossible
Don't bother with people stuck in earlier stages of development. All they hear are excuses and immorality
I would rather bother them very loudly.
I agree with all this but I feel like Americans are the last people who should lead such a movement. To so many of us, the ones your country has raped and destroyed without apology, i roll my eyes at Americans calling for the end of colonization, genocides and war. It’s like you guys think if you go hard on this war, it will forgive all the centuries of genocide. My people were treated like refuse by Americans for decades, then without apology or reparations , white American kids are now preaching at my indigenous ass about privilege and genocide.
You can’t even call out the hypocrisy or you get hated on. I’ve never experienced as much hate and racism towards my culture from the left, as I have this past 2 years. You expect that shit from the right, but the American left went insane this cycle too
The people that treated your people like refuse are not the same people as the ones protesting against atrocities.
Lumping a whole population together and stereotyping them is wrong, no matter who you're targeting with your stereotypes.
That being said their point is America shouldn't lead this charge and IMO that's fair given America's support of Israel.
It certainly gets complicated when America is such a melting pot, and it’s consistently the white overlords who engineer those atrocities.
And yes, many, but not all, of the white underlings choose to give them their full support. As a white underling throwing them the middle finger, I have no idea why.
How convenient. You get the enjoy the benefits with none of the guilt, and you can still moralize to the colonized
I am for a 2 state solution, and a version of the Neuremburg Trials for both the IDF and Hamas for their crimes against humanity. Gaza should be a part of Palestine, as with the West Bank, with the settlers in both having to move back, and return the land to it's owners prior. Palestine and Israel seperated by UN peacekeepers at both sides, is my solution for preventing further invasions. Free and fair elections for Palestine, should occur. Both those who think 1 state as Israel or Palestine are insane.
How do you split that baby?
I forgot to mention, making it easy to cross the border is another thing I believe there should be. Something like the 1950s agreement line?
You look at the ones who have been bombing historical sites and give it to the others.
Why historical sites? Why not living human beings? Are buildings more important than people?
I think because he’s talking about how to split land. Palestinians has been displaced many times before being slaughtered, so their deaths would be focused into smaller areas.
It still doesn’t work well though, because many Palestinians consider the current Israel region to be their home.
Thats a really good point. The palestinians come out on top as well on that one so it doesn't make that much difference to my point, but no absolutely living human beings are more important.
Liberals just can't get enough of that thought policing.
For real. I genuinely like Israel and have many israeli friends still but the incompetence of Israel government is so staggering it's imposdible to align with even if you think Hamas deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history.
Recent polls show 81% of the Israeli population agree that Palestine should be ethnically cleansed. It's not just the government, and it's not "incompetence", it's deliberate malice.
And Hamas's crimes are a drop in the ocean compared to Israel, so if you think Hamas "deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history," what do you think Israel deserves?
They're both terrorists, why try to defend hamas? A bad situation doesn't excuse massacre. Both are guilty.
Hamas did a one day attack two years ago
Israel have been bombing civilians for two years
Bothsiders are disguisting people
One's guilty of genocide, one's arguably guilty of going overboard in self-defense of said genocide, though I don't know how much of it is hasbara and how much of it real so I don't really feel like I'm in a position to judge if they actually went overboard and you can thank the Apartheid Regime of West Palestine for that.
You explain it very well. However, I don't think it's necessarilly their opinion that Gaza deserves deleting.
Sure sounds like it
Well, it doesn't to me. Without them telling us we won't know.
What do you think ethnically cleansed means? Or du you think Gaza will remain once all the Palestinians have disappeared and settlers have taken their place?
Ok
You genuinely like an apartheid regime?
i didn’t read it like that… i read it in the same way that you might read that you like many american people, but their government are frequently massive twats… the country is not the people, and in both cases there was (is) genocide involved
Israel, the country, has apartheid enshrined in its constitution. And there never was a genocide of zionists. Indeed the zionists used the holocaust and other european antisemitic persecutions to their advantage
Despite that it's the only country in the middle east where you'll not be tortured and murdered for being gay so umm there's clearly something to like here, no?
You'll get tortured and murdered for being palestinian, so no I dont think so. Pinkwashing apartheid just makes it more disgusting, not less.
Or you know more than one thing can be bad right?
The way people wash islam's intolerance is honestly reaching satire levels.
You realise that Islam is not a monolith but one of the worlds largest religions? That there are LGBTQ+ muslims? Muslim allies? Honestly this idea that there is a "one true Islam" is as ridiculous for Islam as it is for any other religion.
Lmao this is the satire I'm talking about. No way these are real people leaving these comments.
There are literally thousands of people killed every year and they be like "BUT BUT THERE ARE GAY MUSLIMS SOMEWHERE"
Crazy. Simply crazy.
Ah yes you're protecting gays by bombing them lmao
Israel has tortured and murdered more gay people than ever other country in the middle east put together.
❌ confusing
✔️ clear
also
cringe
I smell toast.
An understanding of the Iranian regime (and it's origin) is an important piece of the middle east puzzle.
But they are not forcing Israel into committing genocide. Genocide is a choice Israel is making.
"don't blame us, those dastardly Iranians made us commit genocide!"
Spare us the genocide apologia please.
Anything to draw the conversation away from pissrael huh?
Ah yes palestinians resisting a genocide is because of iran
Yes
Shut up, killing innocent civilians is a war crime. It doesn't matter what your justification is, killing civilians is wrong and if you don't feel bad about it you are broken inside.
As I know we have no other information source about hamas using civilian infrastructure like hospitals as military bases than the IDF. That's because no external journalists are allowed in gaza by the IDF. And in the beginning exactly this IDF also claimed they don't target hospitals and it was a hamas rocket that hit the biggest hospital of gaza. Now there is not a single hospital left. So maybe we shouldn't believe this kind of information. Also there are other methods than bombing the whole area if the enemy is really using civilian infrastructure as military bases. So it's still on the attacker if civilians die. Especially if the attacker has massive military capacities and options for other methods like in the case of the IDF.
Do you know how to read?
What to do then in a situation where civilians are killing other civilians?
Its wrong for anyone to kill civilians, what are you talking about?
The people that drop bombs on civilians are responsible for killing civilians.
The people who starve a population are responsible for starving a population.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION IS
What's your point with this? That the allies were right to bomb civilians? That we can have a little genocide, as a treat?
I guess I should read the article
The allies didn't try to completely wipe out the population of Germany to replace them with their own colonists.
Nah, like usual, religion is solely to blame here.
Conflating Zionism with Judaism is how you create antisemitism. One of the largest constituencies of antizionism is in the Jewish community itself.
All religions are evil. This specific one is causing the genocide in Gaza right now.
What specific religion? The majority of zios are christian. The only relevant "religion" is fascism.
Ok, there's two religions causing the genocide :)
Fascism is not a religion, unless you have a different definition of religion than i know of.
Ah, yes, the genocide and its fascist underpinnings created by seculer atheists inspired by Renaissance and Enlightenment ideals are completely the fault of religion.
Absolutely, religion is at the heart of fascism. But it's probably not the religion that you're thinking of...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Aka muslims deserved it. Hardcore atheists are cringe af
This is like saying "well are you just gonna ignore that some Jewish bankers are doing nefarious crimes?" in 1943.
It is absolutely fucking negligible in comparison, not to mention directly funded by Israel so that they would have an excuse for their indiscriminate slaughter. Give Palestinians a country, their homes, and restitution for decades of apartheid and then we can talk about what kind of problem Hamas is.
Killing 1200 people is still bad
Palestinians have a right to defend themselves.
Don’t Israelies have that right too?
You can't starve children to death in self defence.
Agree. There’s a lot they are doing that is awful. Both sides are doing awful things is my point
One side is literally thousands of times more awful, let's deal with that first
No, occupied people have that right, occupiers do not.
Ah I see so the Indians should slay Americans who are immigrants? And perhaps those immigrants should slay the newer immigrants? /s
Indians aren't forced into an open air prison and denied self determination or citizenship.
Let's compare the numbers, so far a 1200 Israeli's were murdered on the opening day, and maybe 100 more deaths from combat. Total deaths 1300-ish. In the Gaza strip alone over 62,000-ish people have been killed. Using Israel's numbers from before the war they estimated maybe 50,000 active Hamas members. It's orders of magnitude different. Even assuming Hamas died first that still means Israel murdered 12,000 innocent people. Hamas is bad, but the state of Israel is a genocidal monster.
62,000 is the number of confirmed munitions deaths and it's been frozen for months. The actual total killed has been estimated in the arena of half a million.
There will always be collateral damage even though it’s very hard to justify and basically impossible to justify when there’s children involved. I will point out that the line between Hamas combatant and “civilian” can be very grey. Palestinians voted for Hamas knowing they had a mandate to destroy Israel. On the oct 7 attacks Hamas were joined by non combatants. Imagine your army marching down your street on their way to kill your neighbour so you put down what you’re doing to join them and kill your neighbour too. This is basically what happened
For anyone seeing this comment this nunber also a lie. Last proven around 700 or 800 killed ignoring how many killed by Israeli themselves shilling homes where hamas had israeli hostages and cars that trying to get into gaza with hostages.
That makes it ok I suppose. And I’m sure Gaza would have been leveled if hamas decided to kill zero too.
They didn't kill 1200, and even if they had, that number is negligible compared to the amount of Palestinians Israel had already murdered before October 7th, and basically 0 compared to how many they've killed since.
You just only care about white people.
Jewish people are white now?
You're just ignoring the Germans butchered in the warsaw uprising? I am definitely not a psychopath and there was definitely a good reason for a bunch of German "civilians" to be outside a ghetto in a foreign country.
Didn’t hamas march into Israel and were joined by non combatants then butcher and kidnap 1200? Seems different
The place they marched into is where their parents and grandparents lived before Israel ethnically cleansed it, driving them into the ghetto they're currently in.
Still non combatants. Are you saying the indigenous people of your country should be allowed to kill anyone who lives there now?
There's a difference in time scale here; there's still living people who remember the nakba. But indigenous people are absolutely justified in resisting their own oppression. Also the immediate purpose of getting hostages was to get Israel to release hostages it took first.
October 7 wasn’t resisting. It was butchery. And pretending it wasn’t is psychopathy. Israel’s government is very much in the wrong too
Yeah didn't OP know that it's illegal to mention Israel's crimes without also mentioning Hamas in the same sentence?
It’s a paragraph, not a sentence
truly the important thing
Cool.
Gonna state the obvious: Resistance to oppression is justified.
https://jacobin.com/2025/04/warsaw-ghetto-uprising-gaza-genocide
It’s a shitty situation. I’m not sure what you do when both sides are committed to the total destruction of the other. The painful truth is someone is going to be the loser
One side is trying to destroy an apartheid state, the other is trying to destroy children. Stop equivocating the two
You are aware that if given the chance, Hamas would be the apartheid state
I am not, how come?
Hamas have a mandate to destroy Israel. They were democratically elected to do so.
The one that happened for one day, two years ago, and got followed by two years of carpet bolbing civilians?
Yeah i'm sure you're bringing them up in good faith lmao
Thank you for an intelligible response. If we run the hypothetical of what would have happened if Israel allowed hamas to become its own country with its own military, how likely would Hamas have used that power along with help from it’s neighbours like Iran, to develop nuclear weapons or at least a strong conventional army? If there was ever a fork in the road it would be when the Palestinian people elected Hamas knowing their mandate was the total destruction of Israel. They carried out that mandate with everything they were given from Israel and the international community. They used it all to buy rockets and build tunnels for themselves for use for when Israel retaliated. The fact civilians are being killed is part of hamas’s plan to get more international support, no civilians are allowed in the tunnels. Judging by this website it appears to be working well. I really wish we could have seen what happened if Israel withdrew from the West Bank and allowed the Palestinians time to live their lives. There is absolutely blame on both sides.
You would have "both-sides"ed the Holocaust
Even Netanyahu himself says that the ratio of civilian deaths is over 50%.
Over 50%! From the horse's mouth!
Most experts have it at 80%, but even Netanyahu's figure is fucking insane. If not a genocide, it's an absolutely negligent way to run a conflict, with zero value given for human life.
"BuT HaMaS hIDeS iN TuNnELs"....and Israel has one of the best equipped militaries in the world. How big is their drone fleet? If you can't figure out how to take out 1 dude without disintegrating an entire city block, then you need to quit.
So the "best case" scenario is "The Israel government is extremely irresponsible with weapons and needs to stop". Whether or not you think it qualifies as a "genocide", it needs to fucking stop, we need to stop supplying them with weapons, and the world needs to apply more pressure. We can Nuremberg it up later, after the children have stopped being brutally and needlessly murdered.
Because one is real and not the other. Surprising, I know.
Yes. That one. Obviously.
I respect your noble dedication to epistemology, but at some stage it's perfectly reasonable to say that herding millions of people into an increasingly small area whilst forcibly starving and bombing them is a genocide, whilst having an immigrant population of barely 15% is not a genocide.
Is it really propaganda when there's thousands of videos showing all the horrible shit Isreal's been doing in Gaza?
Erm… Virtually every human rights organisation on the planet have done their research and confirm a genocide is being committed. As well as international courts.
Like the old adage goes, if one person thinks you’re a cunt you’re likely not a cunt, If everybody thinks you’re a cunt chances are you are in fact a cunt.
Because nobody bombed white people concentration camps for two years idiot
So it's ok for Israel to kill 50,000 children? Just trying to understand your logic here. Do you disavow Isreal?
One atrocity does not justify another.
Funny how it doesn't' go the other way; why do none of Israel's attacks on Gaza justify October 7th?
You would have supported the annihilation of the Warsaw ghetto using the same reasoning.
So you have anything to comment that shows you actually read what you're commenting on?
Edit: Or did I miss obvious sarcasm?
No, you didn't. Definitely not sarcasm. Check their post history if you need confirmation.
Oh, so you're an idiot. Thanks for clarifying.
Your reading comprehension is bad