Spyke
lemmy.world

USA is the edgy teen after moving out of the parents house (Europe) and finally doing stuff their own way. Not because it is practical, but because they feel rebellious.

41
Hadriscusreply
lemm.ee

USA was colonized by europeans mostly, I believe ?

19
lemmy.blahaj.zone

20% of the population in 1776 were slaves who came from Africa. There are more countries outside Europe

-3
feddit.nl

Not like the Europeans colonized those African countries at the time.

6

20% is a lot ! there are more countries that..? I think you forgot a word

1
partizle.com

Date Formats:

Aug 9, 2023

9 Aug, 2023

8/9/2023 US

9/8/2023 GB

2023/8/9

Correct Date Formats:

9 AUG, Juche 112 ✅

6
Zanzreply
lemmy.ml

Majority of the world uses YYYY-MM-DD. Day 1st makes no sense. If you need the month or year it should come 1st. You need to zoom into what you need not select from any number of months with the same day. That would be like putting time with seconds 1st.

-14

Not really, most countries use YYYY-MM-DD to save documents, photos or archive papers.

DD-MM-YYYY is for daily usage.

21
XEALreply
lemm.ee

YYYY-MM-DD is better if you need to sort

65
MisterFrogreply
lemmy.world

If it weren't so ingrained, I would be permanently using YYYY-MM-DD instead of DD/MM/YYYY.

Works great for east Asia, and it sorts!

I'd also like to advocate for using 24 time in speech.

See you at 21 tomorrow :)

5
JC1reply

Just don't care and use them. People understand them. Maybe they're not used to hearing it, but it doesn't matter. This is what I do and never cam across someone who was so dense that he didn't understand me. I also never had someone tell me that it was strange to do so.

2
ShunkWreply
lemmy.world

We wouldn't in America in most cases. I'd say it's August 9th 2023. I honestly feel like this is such a dumb argument to have because it doesn't matter except for communication with people who use other methods. Now metric vs imperial makes way more sense to me because the metric system is just so much easier for mathematical conversions.

34
lemmy.world

In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade—which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Whereas in the American system, the answer to ‘How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?’ is ‘Go fuck yourself,’ because you can’t directly relate any of those quantities.

14
jballsreply
sh.itjust.works

I like how Europeans pretend they're all scientific, but then still use seconds, minutes, and hours without thinking twice.

4

Lmao Europe is not the only place where they use metric (I'm not European).

Seconds are part of the metric system and are the base unit of time. Just because they didn't define it initially doesn't mean it doesn't exist or makes sense. They use milliseconds and kiloseconds; minutes and hours are used for convenience but are not part of the SI

8

In the USA most people would say “august 9th”, not “the 9th of august”, which is one of the reasons mm/dd/yyyy is the standard format here

14
kautaureply
lemmy.world

Which extrapolated, who the fuck would say “the September of 2024” and not “September, 2024” for example

2

This is actually often done when trying to be more eloquent or dramatic or add importance, like how Independence day is The 4th of July versus just saying Jily 4th.

6
Samsyreply
lemmy.ml

Okay but if you sort by name then the file:

08-09-2023.png

is after:

04-12-2023.png

Because everything would be sort after the day number.

5

Then get software that recognizes a simple format like that because that's a nightmare.

1
lemmy.world

I like it for reading and using the date day to day

But yyy-mm-dd is best for sorting and archiving files

22

People rarely use them in real life, but ISO 8601 and RFC 3339 (both are almost identical) are the most natural ways of writing date and time. Just like how we write numbers, their components are written from left to right in the decreasing order of significance: yyyy-mm-ddTHH:MM:SS. I like it by default for precisely the reason you mentioned - sorting. It even helps quick visual comparisons.

1

Because you are able to read the thing that changes most often first. It is more convinient to read from left to right.

2
lemmy.world

ISO 8601 or nothing. Descending order of granularity, keep everything sorted as it should be!

52
Wakerreply
lemmy.ml

My personal preference is DD-MM-AAAA, but as someone that works with lots of data from different formats and timezones... I have to agree with you...

YYYYMMDD and UTC should be the global default.

13
lemm.ee

I've said it once and I will say it again:

mkdir -p 2023/{January,February,March,April,May,June,July,August,Septembet,October,November,December}

Warning: not POSIX

5
db2
sopuli.xyz

Aug 9, 2023 and 08/09/23 literally say the same thing.

45
CosmoVerdereply
kbin.social

They do but one informs the reader of the order of the format while the other doesn’t.

81
andrewreply
lemmy.stuart.fun

Look it's easy, you just wait until the 13th of the month to figure out which format it is. Is 12 days really so much to ask?

53
harl3k1nreply
feddit.de

August 9th 2023 would be 09.08.2023 in Germany though 😉

14
kbin.social

Also changing it to periods doesn't avoid confusion about the order. Also pretty sure we fought a whole war over not being like the Germans, so...

4

It's quite simple really. The order is "small to big". You start with the smallest unit, in this case the day. Then follows the next largest unit, the month, and finally the year. Basically the same as in the top picture, but in reverse order.

1
ebits21reply
lemmy.ca

The first isn’t ambiguous at all; the second is hella ambiguous.

16
droansreply
lemmy.world

It's only ambiguous because there's a second standard.

0

Is 08/09/2023 August or September? What about 08.09.2023? Do you see where the problem lies?

0

No, the second one says "Sept. 8th 2023" and that last panel is obviously British (you can tell by the teeth) /s

1

I was unaware of this. But it uses the same logic as the British date format so I am okay with it.

4
Grumpyreply
sh.itjust.works

He's making a pedantic joke. Lower case m is sometimes used to indicate minutes.

Albeit a weak one since many formats use lowercase m to indicate month. Such as programming languages like python & PHP. IBM & Microsoft standards also use lowercase m and so forth.

5

Yeah it's a bit mixed bag. Powershell command get-date expects mm for minutes and MM for months, which has messed up my scripts logging few times lol

1

I did think he might be making a joke but since as you said it would be a weak one I gave him the benifit of the doubt

1
lemmy.world

Last two are both dumb, YYYY-MM-DD or DD-MM-YYYY or go home

Yes I'm American

24

The last one is ambiguous because it could be either august ninth or september eigth.

16
lemm.ee

I swear, a lot of you would have no joy in life if you weren't able to bitch about the stupidest shit.

16

If you it's the stupidest shit then you never tried to figure out why you can't log in to VPN for 2h just to realize password expired week ago but you looked at the date and thought you still have 3 weeks till expires

1
pawb.social

09/08/2023 (I'm an American who doesn't care what everyone in my country uses if that "custom" is nonsense...)

15
lemmy.world

Im a Canadian, and unfortunetely we use both formats, with no context.

9

Which is why written down or typed without a format prompt I use "12 Aug 2023"

3
pawb.social

I use Fahrenheit just because it's a pain to get everything set to Celsius and other Americans don't understand it. But I use grams, kilos, millilitres, kilometres, etc. Yes. And if someone asks me to guess the length of an object I will give centimetres, and refuse to translate to inches and their stupid fractions.

0
lemmy.world

Yes. And if someone asks me to guess the length of an object I will give centimetres, and refuse to translate to inches and their stupid fractions.

Some proud neckbeard shit right here. "Fuck communicating effectively with people. They don't even know I only use the metric system!"

But yeah, got em... I guess.

9

I kind of get it, it's like language immersion. How do you easily describe anything besides the freezing point and boiling point of water in an objective way? The rest, you can point to and say "this weighs a kilo" ot "this holds a liter." And if you don't force people to use it, they'll simply refuse. And we all carry handy unit conversion tools with us wherever we go these days, so if they don't want to learn, they can easily translate it themselves.

-1

So you use Fahrenheit because Americans don't understand Celsius but you don't convert to imperial for them if they don't understand? That just seems inconsiderate as it's really no trouble at all

1

Amount of seconds since midnight Jan 1st 1970 or sod off

6

If it’s a file I want sorted by date the top is good. If I am talking about a date and spelling it out August the 9th of 2023 makes the most sense and seems natural, and if it’s a personal memo or date label on food I just use 08/09 with the zeros so I know it isn’t a fraction unless it’s frozen or shelf stable for long term storage where the year would be useful to know at which point it becomes 8/9/23

I thought everybody used different date formats based on need.

6
lemmy.world

In UK we always say 9th of August 2023, ie the way our dates are written and i would say is more natural haha. Maybe Americans find it more natural the other way around because your dates are other way around. If you use the date system the uk has maybe it would sound more natural to speak perhaps.

2

I grew up on RuneScape and BBC programming, so I’ve been exposed to both formats for a long time (really fucked me up in spelling). I couldn’t say why August 9th sounds more natural, but it’s probably because most irl folks around me use it. The 9th of August didn’t sound bad, just more artificial, and it’s probably because my exposure to that spoken out was mostly media and pop culture.

1
lemmy.ca

The way I see it, the US just writes it the way it's spoken. "August 9th, 2023" vs. "the 9th of August, 2023".

5
teuniac_reply
lemmy.world

That also doesn't make a lot of sense though, does it. In my language, the day comes first. Also when spoken.

7
nevialreply
discuss.tchncs.de

No, the US just chose this order and speaks it the same way. I don't speak it this way, you're just used to it (just like everyone is to the way they speak it)

5
NuPNuAreply
lemm.ee

Yeah, but in proper English, as spoken in England, we would say "9th of August, not August the 9th"

5

The first and the last date format are terrible because you can confuse the day of the month with the number of the month.

I only like date formats where it's not possible to confuse any field, like 8 Aug 2023. I minimize ambiguity.

If the date is in a file name, I make an exception using 2023-08-09 such that a string sort is equal to a date sort.

5

For actually displaying dates to others, I agree that spelling out the month is absolutely preferred. But if space is limited, you're somewhat required to pick a very shortened format, and the US version is dumb, even if that's what you should use when displaying in that locale.

But for working with dates on computers, year-month-day works great, because it's still human readable, is naturally sortable, and makes it easier for serialization.

The first one is conventionally never year-day-month, and if anyone ever sent me a date of 2023-17-08, I would respond with, "What the hell?! Are you being evil on purpose?"

3
lemmy.world

I don't know why you wanted to know year before month or day, I use dd/mm/yyyy sometime I didn't even use yyyy just dd/mm because day change most frequent then month then year

4
loutrreply
sh.itjust.works

YYYY-MM-DD is best when programming because it's unambiguous and it makes sorting easier. For humans DD-MM-YYYY is indeed the most sensible.

16
sh.itjust.works

Alright, then I guess change the way you read a clock too... My day to day use doesn't include the year at all. Just mm/dd

2
adriaanreply
sh.itjust.works

Why change the way you read a clock? year/month/day hour:minute:second

You would never read a clock as minute:second:hour, which is analagous to how Americans phrase dates.

6

Lot of people say "half passed" or "quarter 'til" and optionally include the hour.

I don't, but some people do.

1

One of my biggest gripes when I worked at Walmart in the claims dept.

I would always have to double check items because some are sources from the US and use the US date format while the rest is in the normal format.

BB really needs to have what format was used or labels need to be printed for US sources pantry items.

2

ISO standards... unbelievable how many people don't get it!

1

It's by smallest integer to largest, what's weird about that?

12 months a year, up to 31 days a month and X number of years. It makes the most sense

-1
jerieljanreply
lemmy.ml

Because it gets horribly fucky when you now have to figure out if a date is actually formatted as MM-DD-YY or DD-MM-YY.

Surely we've all handled reading an expiration date before and have wondered if we're eating something OK or has expired months ago because they chose the other format.

(Honestly, I think both formats are shit, and the only correct way to do dates with numbers only is YYYY-MM-DD. If not, then at least use letters for months, like 30 AUG 2023)

7

It should be ordered by significance (ideally descending). USA's date is like putting the million between the thousands and the unit.

5
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Surely we’ve all handled reading an expiration date before and have wondered if we’re eating something OK or has expired months ago

No, I haven't, and I don't know anyone else who has

-4

Then you've never bought imported food or never got food gifts overseas. Or never travelled to a country that used the format that you don't use.

For example, 06/09/2023 could mean either you're eating something that expires next month, or expired two months ago.

1
lemm.ee

Try to figure out a way to sort it automatically and get back to me on why it's stupid

6
droansreply
lemmy.world

Easy. Don't store dates as a text string. That's just bad programming.

1

When you say "don't store dates as a string" what you're really saying is "wait for someone else to solve the problem and release a library, then use that library". That seems to be what the majority of the industry does (I'm a Java coder myself and joda is a lifesaver in that regard) but my point is that this problem is hard. Date and time stamps are a subtly difficult part of the average API monkey's daily work.

1
programming.dev

Months are dumb. Inconsistent lengths, the names are out of sync (OCTober isn't month 8), pretend to be based on lunar cycles but not, etc.

Give us Year/Day date formats. Extra new year holiday on leap years.

-1

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Americans write the date the way we would say it. August 9th 2023.

-2

Americans pick up weird habits and then insist that it's the right way. How is August 9th any better than 9th of August when the 9th is a subunit of August and not the other way around?

Another good example is the use of the imperial system. I've heard Americans often declare that it's a better system for manual use compared to the metric system. But the metric system has prefixes that differ consistently by 3 orders of magnitude, whereas the imperial system has rather arbitrary jumps between each successive unit. The metric system needs much less cognitive effort even for manual use.

I can understand that it's a matter of habit for Americans. But it's the lack of acceptance that there is a problem that leads to other problems like crashing a spacecraft onto Mars.

2
alessandroreply
lemmy.ca

Generally speaking you're usually from 0 to 720 hours in a month: how many time in a year you have to remind people what month they are into vs. the single day?

Guy A: "Hey, what day is it?"

Guy B: "It's Sunday, the 13th."

Guy A: "Of...?" (gesturing to keep going)

Guy B: "Ah, right, we're just 390 hours into August. You may have missed that."

0
reddthat.com

That's what kills me about people who rag on Americans.

We order our dates the way we say them, and we use a temperature system is a great way to describe feeling heat.

I've got no defense for imperial measurements beyond scooping up a cup of flour is easier than dumping it on a scale.

But people spend more energy shitting on the cultural norms of Americans than anyone else (especially Europeans) and then spend a lot of time telling us we have no culture.

-3
smooth_teareply
lemmy.world

and we use a temperature system is a great way to describe feeling heat

You know if you really think about it for even the slightest amount of time this makes absolutely no fucking sense. I can imagine why you state this, but to not spoil the fun I'd love to hear it from you.

2
sh.itjust.works

The fahrenheit scale was created as a base for human temperature. The guy fucked up his math though because 100°f was supposed to be average body temp.

Celsius is temperature based on water.

Kelvin is based on universal scale.

Fahrenheit is based on the human body.

1

I don't see how intent is relevant, to someone using Celsius, 40 degrees is hot because they're used to that, that's the only thing that matters. Besides, when it comes to body temperature, Celsius is a lot closer than Fahrenheit. Not to mention "it's freezing outside" in Celsius is actually sub zero, and not a number close to your body temperature as it is in Fahrenheit.

1

Fahrenheit based his scale on what he thought to be absolute zero (i.e. the coldest temperature he could produce in his lab with the tools of his time) and his body temperature, which he set to 12, because 12 was a convenient number and used in a lot of scales in his pre-metric time. He did realize though that this scale was impractical, and halved his degrees until they deemed sensible to him, resulting in the final degrees to be ⅛ of the first draft. 8 * 12 = 96, hence 96° F was his second fixed point.

Which is just senseless, as we know today, as the temperature of the human body fluctuates over time. If we took the original definition seriously, everybody would have their own Fahrenheit scale that would differ over time.

Fahrenheit is not based on body temperature, it is based on the temperature of a mixture of ice and salt and the body temperature of a certain individual, both in 1714. Who was, by the way, suffering from hypothermia.

1
lemmy.world

In theory yes stupid, in practice I've never been confused once. Its fine guys, why's it such a massive issue for everyone?

-2

My clock says the time is 45:09:00. Should feel so natural to anyone in the US, right?

1