Their bodies have adapted so well to boot licking, they can actually get sick and die from shoe polish withdrawal. That's the only rational explanation I can come up with.
The part they don't like talking about is the police approach homeless people in China and give them the option to either do whatever job tbey are given or go to prison and dissapear.
I love how this kinds of communities describe themselfes as welcome to discussion and the write all the "facts" as a rule and everybody who says anything els gets banned.
You're getting a lot of downvotes but no explanation.
Communism is a classless stateless society. The fact that all these groups are massive states with untouchable political classes rebuts any assertion of communism. Second is the difference between nouns and adjectives. The Communist Party is a noun. Such parties are never able to be described as communist however. In fact Vanguard parties are an antithesis to communism. And would have to be overthrown before achieving communism.
If you take leninism / maoism seriously. They are supposed to be frameworks with which to jumpstart communism. Sort of like all that " one weird trick to perfect health that doctors hate" spam you see all over the internet. Bullshit.
They've given you no reason to believe them. They've lied to you about everything. I too am a communist. Anarco communist. Everything I stand for is opposed to them. One of us must be wrong.
But here's something to think about before you decide who's correct. They want you and others to treat them as if they were communist do you really want to give them what they want? That seems counterintuitive to accept their claims on face value when they're so dishonest about everything else.
While for my part all I've done is try to engage you in good faith and treat if you like an adult.
I, for one, am sick of the media I listen to constantly telling me it would be fine to completely destroy North Korea in an invasion.
I am seriously very curious about who these people are that are posting and participating in this place. Is it North Korean trolls? Normal trolls who are taking the piss? Western communists who know it's bullshit but see it as their duty to say it anyway? Western communists who really believe it? Russians who just want to talk up their friends and poop on the US and don't really care if anyone believes it or not? People with mental illness? People who just want a tribe to be part of? Is it just the lemmygrad admins just making on-brand activity on their server? Who the hell is participating in this? Why?
Also, I took a look. Their video of people "enjoying" is very weird. It reminds me of the USSR Billy Joel concert with him yelling at his crew to take the cameras off people because they were only allowed to have fun off camera.
Western communists who know it’s bullshit but see it as their duty to say it anyway? People with mental illness? People who just want a tribe to be part of? Who the hell is participating in this? Why?
Yeah, pretty much summed it up. As for the why? it's because they are lonely and lazy.
Also, I took a look. Their video of people “enjoying” is very weird. It reminds me of the USSR Billy Joel concert with him yelling at his crew to take the cameras off people because they were only allowed to have fun off camera.
I can believe the video is authentic. But it's important to note that these are the 0.1 percent of North Koreans, the ultra rich. Most are incredibly impoverished. The video's weird because none of them want to get sand on themselves, they don't want to look like the dirty peasants, hence their awkward movements. Appearance is very important in North Korea.
And remember anyone they disagree with gets "rule 1" banned. Its so blatantly used as well, you can check the mod logs and see the things getting people banned for.
Hell look at the last "rule 1" ban on .ml someone was banned for posting:
"Where can I find a pie chart of market shares for the instances? I would expect that none of them is more than 51% alone. Only then we can call this “decentralization”, right?"
I like how this ignores that not only did the DPRK start the war, but the vast majority of the UN lined up behind South Korea, after the USSR stormed out of the security council meeting - they still had quorum, but the Soviets apparently assumed they didn’t, or would adjourn, or something. They didn’t. As a direct result, United Nations Command was established to specifically support South Korea in 1950.
I want every ml in the world to move to north korea or china or any country they stan so much and live there for the rest of their life so that they will feel how "great" and "democratic" these "utopias" are.
They absolutely can move to their favourite places. Iran, China, Russia -- But they never do. They're very lazy. Or perhaps deep down they know that their entire being is a trend that they latched onto to look better.
Hexbear claims a majority trans, grad, and ml claim very large lgbtq+ communities too. Hopefully not many of them are in the apologists, cause life will very likely get worse.
I think a ton of them are, yeah. They're kids who were fed propaganda about the USA being the greatest country in the world and after correctly realising it's bullshit, they just flipped everything in their heads and started believing the exact opposite - and since they were told the USSR was a shithole, it must mean it's a paradise on Earth.
The pendulum swings from one extreme to the other.
It does feel bad, but I keep thinking about the people who don't know any better falling into that way of thinking. If there is at least one person in there questioning their circle jerk. I feel like it can save people a lot of trouble.
Thanks for creating this post! I think it also helps.
Yup, they are not interested in having real discussions. They are just larping.
I know some of them are victims and are just there because they fell for it. You can tell because they are the ones who engage you with curiosity instead of contempt.
Well rule number 3 on the sidebar says be skeptical of your sources, so I'm quite sure that this checks notes Facebook meme is correct in saying alphabetization.
The context of that quote is the establishment of a standard alphabetical ordering. Alphabetization refers to ordering items in accordance with that standard.
Yeah sure, NK is a total utopia. Especially like the part where it says "Workers are the owner of the means of production" as if they didn't have one dictator that was in charge without anyone really having a choice.
That's why I'm on infosec.pub. There should be a list somewhere of instances which defederate from those annoying instances so people can more easily pick a good home server.
They love authoritarianism, they're bootlickers, so they latch onto Russia, China and North Korea. They completely ignore real communist countries like Cuba or Vietnam.
A communist society needs to be stateless. Therefore authoritarian communism is an oxymoron. Is that what you were asking?
Now, whether this type of society envisioned by Marx is even possible is a whole separate question but that has no bearing on the fact that no so-called “communists” have ever achieved it.
I'm surprised nobody ITT saw the Facebook page “The Soviet Reporter” owns.
Despots gonna despot.
I also love the 여자 in the poster: She's not allowed to shave her hair, she's not allowed to wear street punk clothing, she's not allow to show nipple, etc. etc.. 신 I love DPKR propaganda /s
Look, I'm not some north Korea enthusiast. But i do think it's alarming that America killed 25% of the north Korean population and then as a "thank you" split the country in two and hit the north with incredible strict economic sanctions. And then we've spent 70 years getting 3rd hand knowledge of the country through propaganda.
Do i think north Korea is some socialist paradise? Absolutely not. Do i think it's fairly portrayed in English language news and social media?
America and the USSR agreed to partition Korea along the 38th parallel after liberating it from imperial Japanese rule.
Subsequent to that the Chinese communists agreed to arm and back north Korea in return for Korean support during China's civil war.
Later on North Korea launched an invasion of South Korea I feel like this is a very important point you somehow completely failed to mention. They then captured most of the Korean peninsula down to Busan.
At this point the US (technically the UN but most forces were US) reinforced the ROK troops reclaimed the lost territory and invaded the north capturing Pyongyang.
At this point China reinforced the north Koreans and recaptured Pyongyang the fighting then stalemated around the 38th parallel after years of fighting an armistice was agreed and the current borders were agreed.
Your protratal of the US deciding on a whim to butcher the poor north Koreans then impose a separation on them would be laughable in how poorly it conveys events if you weren't seeking to mis-atribute the cause of a war that killed 3 million people
Huh, surprised they got banned since that seems to be broadly true esp in context of your second point, maybe it was a different comment that got them nuked
They were evading their ban. They've made hundreds of accounts because they get banned constantly for being a dick to everyone they consider American.
I keep calling them out and reporting them every time they do so, and they're getting very upset about it. Apparently I'm a snitch that needs to die lmao.
And the standard penalty for invading another country is being bombed into the stone age? Nothing you said justifies what happened. Were NK bad? Fuck yes! Does that justify killing a quarter of their people? I hope you don't think so, or you are at least are willing to massacre close to a hundred million Americans for consistency sake.
The standard penalty for starting a war is being in a state of war, during which your opponents will try to kill you. Until the war is over your opponents will keep trying to kill you.
Its worth noting that armestice wasn't reached until Stalin died and the new soviet leaders weren't interested in prolonging the war, which suggests that the belligerents in the conflict were happy to continue it as Koreans continued to die in order to support their territorial and idiological designs.
In my opinion the US shouldn't have crossed the 38th parallel north, doing so brought china into the war and ended the possibility of a quick end to the war and fewer deaths, but that sin pales in comparison to starting the invasion in the first place.
The real tragedy is the same as it ever is in wars, innocent civilians and young soldiers die in droves because someone in power wanted more land, more subjects, more resources more power and made the decision to take it at the cost of these lives.
And let's not pretend that if the ROK and the US didn't fight there wouldn't have been massacres of civilians, purges of intellectuals and "political dissidents" and forced migration.
The community we are in is somewhat appropriate when you are advocating that "war is bad" so people shouldn't fight back when they are invaded because people die or powerful nations shouldn't militarily support victims of invasions because that "prolongs the war" during which yes; people die. I see enough of that from the various anti-ukraine/pro-russia shills, it's nice to see that logic gets applied to other cases where a country with red in it's flag tries to annex its neighbour too.
It sounds to me like you think anything is fair in war. Provide as much random background as you want, none of it justifies the scale of destruction. Just look it up on Wikipedia and tell me again that it's just war and it was all necessary to prevent the undoubtedly awful things NK had planned.
Way to disengage with every point made and assume I am a warmonger.
I did almost include a paragraph on the morality of the bombing of Pyongyang, but after some thought I realise it wasn't even a decade after ww2 and area bombing cities was part of how America and its allies won that conflict.
Would you say bombing Germany was necessary or justified to stop facism in Europe? Was the bombing of Japan necessary or justified to end Japanese subjugation of Asia?
I'm not sure I have a consistent position on this, it feels like the bombing of Korea was excessive but the bombing of Germany was necessary, but I can't find a good justification for that split.
Either way I'm not particularly interested in defending the US's conduct, but the original commenter presenting the invading country as being innocent and laying all the blame for the war at the feet of the US is gross.
This isn't even getting into the fact that NK has one of the worst human rights records in the world.
But you made no good points. The only consistent root position for your arguments to me was "everything good guys do is okay" and "war isn't nice". That's why I decided to cut to the chase and ask the only relevant question. Tangential historical waffle for vague justification, without addressing the point, doesn't interest me. Either it's okay to kill 20% of a country, while claiming the moral high ground, or it isn't.
Bombing of Germany and Japan was necessary sure, but the degree and targets are in question. Did they need to level Dresden or nuke Japanese cities? Did they have to target civilians en mass? No, they were just barbarians invoking "turnabout is fair play" and offering mealy-mouthed "war isn't nice" canards in their own defence. Japan, in particular, was just a test of their new toy, perhaps one of the most disgusting things ever done. Notably in neither of these cases did the allies destroy 85% buildings for an entire country and kill a such a large fraction of the population.
Perhaps the undoubtedly vile Kim regime has been so hard to dislodge because the "good guys" inflicted such unnecessary mass destruction and trauma. It's very easy to sell a narrative that the world is out to get you when the world was actually out to get your parents.
It's amazing when people say these things. Even Wikipedia will tell you 85% of all structures in North Korea were destroyed. No one even bothered to estimate military versus civilian deaths. I fucking hate tankies but there's no point in being useless bullshitters ourselves. People with no regard for the truth are even worse than tankies.
You can criticize the US without making other authoritarian states look good. Both can be bad
Tankies can't.
Their bodies have adapted so well to boot licking, they can actually get sick and die from shoe polish withdrawal. That's the only rational explanation I can come up with.
Absolutely!
Also US citizens are allowed to criticize the US.
Pretty sure North Korean citizens are also allowed to criticize the US so no fundamental difference here (/s if not obvious)
Any country that says that they don't have any "homeless or beggars" is either lying, or killing people on the street.
Or living in a labour camp.
The part they don't like talking about is the police approach homeless people in China and give them the option to either do whatever job tbey are given or go to prison and dissapear.
Ah that’s what they mean with “right to work”!
Hey they have “right to work” in Florida! They must be the most “Democratic” place in the world!
also look at these weird ass rules. This is for the "korea" community
Insecure much?
I love how this kinds of communities describe themselfes as welcome to discussion and the write all the "facts" as a rule and everybody who says anything els gets banned.
Yeah, I don't really understand why tankies pretend to be liberals so much. So many of their communities are all like 'discussion welcome!'
But of course it isn't actually welcome. I've noticed that it's special to tankies, and that other extremists openly embrace their ignorance.
Digressive Victimhood.
They are communists not liberals
Maoists maybe.
Marx wouldn't recognize any of them.
I don't think it matters much
These are people who call NK a free country so we aren't talking about the most rational beliefs
They aren't communists either. But they long to be a liberal in red paint.
I've never seen a tankie want to be a liberal. They really like the world libtard.
They want to be liberals, they're obsessed with liberty, freedom and they demand and defend tolerance.
lol they’re not communists.
Why can't the be?
If someone says they they are a communist I believe them. (Sorry, I mean Marxist)
You're getting a lot of downvotes but no explanation.
Communism is a classless stateless society. The fact that all these groups are massive states with untouchable political classes rebuts any assertion of communism. Second is the difference between nouns and adjectives. The Communist Party is a noun. Such parties are never able to be described as communist however. In fact Vanguard parties are an antithesis to communism. And would have to be overthrown before achieving communism.
If you take leninism / maoism seriously. They are supposed to be frameworks with which to jumpstart communism. Sort of like all that " one weird trick to perfect health that doctors hate" spam you see all over the internet. Bullshit.
They go around calling themselves communists and I believe them
We aren't talking about the most rational people here
They've given you no reason to believe them. They've lied to you about everything. I too am a communist. Anarco communist. Everything I stand for is opposed to them. One of us must be wrong.
But here's something to think about before you decide who's correct. They want you and others to treat them as if they were communist do you really want to give them what they want? That seems counterintuitive to accept their claims on face value when they're so dishonest about everything else.
While for my part all I've done is try to engage you in good faith and treat if you like an adult.
I, for one, am sick of the media I listen to constantly telling me it would be fine to completely destroy North Korea in an invasion.
I am seriously very curious about who these people are that are posting and participating in this place. Is it North Korean trolls? Normal trolls who are taking the piss? Western communists who know it's bullshit but see it as their duty to say it anyway? Western communists who really believe it? Russians who just want to talk up their friends and poop on the US and don't really care if anyone believes it or not? People with mental illness? People who just want a tribe to be part of? Is it just the lemmygrad admins just making on-brand activity on their server? Who the hell is participating in this? Why?
Also, I took a look. Their video of people "enjoying" is very weird. It reminds me of the USSR Billy Joel concert with him yelling at his crew to take the cameras off people because they were only allowed to have fun off camera.
Yeah, pretty much summed it up. As for the why? it's because they are lonely and lazy.
I can believe the video is authentic. But it's important to note that these are the 0.1 percent of North Koreans, the ultra rich. Most are incredibly impoverished. The video's weird because none of them want to get sand on themselves, they don't want to look like the dirty peasants, hence their awkward movements. Appearance is very important in North Korea.
Oh, it definitely looked genuine to me (although obviously I have no idea). It just didn't look like anyone was having any fun.
When the fuck did we downplay Palestine?
Also, that's MAGA / toddler logic.
And remember anyone they disagree with gets "rule 1" banned. Its so blatantly used as well, you can check the mod logs and see the things getting people banned for.
Hell look at the last "rule 1" ban on .ml someone was banned for posting:
"Where can I find a pie chart of market shares for the instances? I would expect that none of them is more than 51% alone. Only then we can call this “decentralization”, right?"
How very uncivil of them......
I like how this ignores that not only did the DPRK start the war, but the vast majority of the UN lined up behind South Korea, after the USSR stormed out of the security council meeting - they still had quorum, but the Soviets apparently assumed they didn’t, or would adjourn, or something. They didn’t. As a direct result, United Nations Command was established to specifically support South Korea in 1950.
And then people ask why the lemmy devs receive so little funding. I want to support lemmy but I just can't morally support people pushing this agenda.
If the "D"RPK is so great, why can't people leave?
You know your country is a grade A shit hole where leaving brands you a traitor. Assuming you're successful that is, and don't get killed for trying.
Visiting Norway was easy, nobody even checked my passport.
Snuck in to sweden myself.
Its so beautiful.
"They just don't to leave!"
/s, but also that's actually their argument.
Its also a stupid argument, I love the country I'm in, but I'm still going to leave to go on holiday or something.
Well yeah, it's super fucking stupid, and a lie. And yet...
I want every ml in the world to move to north korea or china or any country they stan so much and live there for the rest of their life so that they will feel how "great" and "democratic" these "utopias" are.
They absolutely can move to their favourite places. Iran, China, Russia -- But they never do. They're very lazy. Or perhaps deep down they know that their entire being is a trend that they latched onto to look better.
If you ever bring it up they’ll say something along the lines of “well why don’t you pay for my move then”.
I’ll pay for a one way ticket, the wonderful democratic utopia will provide them the rest.
I'll chip in some dollars, lets crowdfund this!
I've found that they usually just quieten down, really odd.
I am willing to start crowd funding their immigration
About 2k per tankie to never heard from them again is a bargain.
Hexbear claims a majority trans, grad, and ml claim very large lgbtq+ communities too. Hopefully not many of them are in the apologists, cause life will very likely get worse.
Troll farms will
Keep posting
Find new cattle to train.
They are probably from there
Most tankies are fat American basement dwellers fantasising about power.
Are they though?
I think a ton of them are, yeah. They're kids who were fed propaganda about the USA being the greatest country in the world and after correctly realising it's bullshit, they just flipped everything in their heads and started believing the exact opposite - and since they were told the USSR was a shithole, it must mean it's a paradise on Earth.
The pendulum swings from one extreme to the other.
I do know that there are at least a few tankies from Iran, Turkey, China and Russia. (I've seen comments from them)
Yes, the rich happy north corean worker and his internet.
I mean China, Russia and any other authoritarian nation.
They are probably a result of brain washing done by authoritarian governments
Hey, that's me!
Sorry you had to go through so much hate.
It does feel bad, but I keep thinking about the people who don't know any better falling into that way of thinking. If there is at least one person in there questioning their circle jerk. I feel like it can save people a lot of trouble.
Thanks for creating this post! I think it also helps.
That's most likely why your comments were removed and your account banned, huh? Can't have dissent.
Yup, they are not interested in having real discussions. They are just larping.
I know some of them are victims and are just there because they fell for it. You can tell because they are the ones who engage you with curiosity instead of contempt.
That payment? $24 per year.
That's not a joke. That is the real number at the black market exchange rate.
Which is the ONLY exchange rate, because North Korea.
If only I had mentioned an exchange rate
list not in alphabetical order, straight to a
work campstate funded retreatFor anyone who like me was just confused and ignored it: They meant "literacy" but translated it badly.
Must have been the .1
Lol, the irony
Well rule number 3 on the sidebar says be skeptical of your sources, so I'm quite sure that this checks notes Facebook meme is correct in saying alphabetization.
D good start P alright jumped a lot not a lot of room left K ..... Well now it's not.
How can they claim even over 75 percent alphabetization? Are we to deny reality?
When they refer to South Korea as Occupied Korea, I almost can’t breathe from laughing.
And how many days per week?
10 for good citizens
20 in forced labor camps
It's not forced labor, comrade, you're free to exchange your work hours for torture sessions and reduced food rations!
I work 12hr shifts and I prefer it anyway.
what genre of work?
Why do tankies like to post poorly translated propaganda? Like at least take the time to localize that shit bruh wtf.
Because they are poorly localized.
They are not who they say they are, full stop.
The context of that quote is the establishment of a standard alphabetical ordering. Alphabetization refers to ordering items in accordance with that standard.
Yeah sure, NK is a total utopia. Especially like the part where it says "Workers are the owner of the means of production" as if they didn't have one dictator that was in charge without anyone really having a choice.
yeah Kim owns the means of production but he also works real hard /s
It's easier when you dont spend your time shitting at work tho.
That was one of the wildest comment chains I have read. If anybody is interested: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/7781901
The only sane person I found in this post is @[email protected] lmao
It's a pretty common thread for tankies. Comes up probably once a week.
And they're Gebannt...
The very best thing I have ever heard about infosec.pub.
That's why I'm on infosec.pub. There should be a list somewhere of instances which defederate from those annoying instances so people can more easily pick a good home server.
In your account settings I think. You can do so in your web client or app you use.
I haven't blocked ml of hexbear cause I find some of their content interesting. I always like to consider all sides.
I can't believe they choose North Korea out of all places
They love authoritarianism, they're bootlickers, so they latch onto Russia, China and North Korea. They completely ignore real communist countries like Cuba or Vietnam.
Cuba is also quite authoritarian afaik. Just not the warmongering kind.
So is Vietnam. It's an authoritarian one-party state with no political freedoms, no free press etc.
yeah, but that's actual communism, so tankies don't want to talk about them.
Some of em absolutely love to talk about Vietnam, particularly Luna oi.
Is it though? I don’t think so. Authoritarian communism is an oxymoron, despite what most people think.
How is it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_society
A communist society needs to be stateless. Therefore authoritarian communism is an oxymoron. Is that what you were asking?
Now, whether this type of society envisioned by Marx is even possible is a whole separate question but that has no bearing on the fact that no so-called “communists” have ever achieved it.
So what are the Soviet Union, Mao China, Vietnam and Cuba?
Cuba and Vietnam aren't exactly shining beacons of democracy
Don't tell that to Lemmy
How dare the tankies be communists
The reddit lemmy situation shows that people don't make the right choices on their own, at least not without the right education.
Which other options do communists have to change society?
If they can fool someone thinking NK is good, they can scam them easily.
99.9% alphabetization? This is what the USA has been missing. The founding fathers failed us.
In a 99.9% alphabetized America, "USA" becomes "ASU". This one simple trick turns bourgeois imperialist hegemon into a party school!!!
Yes, everyone lives alphabetized. Bob had better live to the either below, or to the left of Andy, OR ELSE!
most creative black mirror episode
Why can't we just agree that both the US and DPRK are undemocratic?
🤦
This I think is the indictment of the U.S.'s public education.
Are you implying that homelessness equates to education?
No, he's saying that americans are dumb enough to believe such garbage
It's universal though. USA at a higher percentage of people.
It's not a baseles claim though.
https://www.thetoptens.com/nations/superstitious-countries/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
WTF is alphabetization?
"Literacy" but bastardized back to English from the french word I think ("alphabétisation")
I'm guessing they mean literacy? Who knows.
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy and z
They changed the song and took this out.
I wish I was kidding.
What the FUCK
I feel like joyless dicks are invading every space now
You can pry my elemenopee from my cold, dead paws.
I'm surprised nobody ITT saw the Facebook page “The Soviet Reporter” owns. Despots gonna despot.
I also love the 여자 in the poster: She's not allowed to shave her hair, she's not allowed to wear street punk clothing, she's not allow to show nipple, etc. etc.. 신 I love DPKR propaganda /s
Nah, I've just been there and talked to everyone. They say it's all good
Man, there is so much missing from this.
Look, I'm not some north Korea enthusiast. But i do think it's alarming that America killed 25% of the north Korean population and then as a "thank you" split the country in two and hit the north with incredible strict economic sanctions. And then we've spent 70 years getting 3rd hand knowledge of the country through propaganda.
Do i think north Korea is some socialist paradise? Absolutely not. Do i think it's fairly portrayed in English language news and social media?
Absolutely not
America and the USSR agreed to partition Korea along the 38th parallel after liberating it from imperial Japanese rule.
Subsequent to that the Chinese communists agreed to arm and back north Korea in return for Korean support during China's civil war.
Later on North Korea launched an invasion of South Korea I feel like this is a very important point you somehow completely failed to mention. They then captured most of the Korean peninsula down to Busan.
At this point the US (technically the UN but most forces were US) reinforced the ROK troops reclaimed the lost territory and invaded the north capturing Pyongyang.
At this point China reinforced the north Koreans and recaptured Pyongyang the fighting then stalemated around the 38th parallel after years of fighting an armistice was agreed and the current borders were agreed.
Your protratal of the US deciding on a whim to butcher the poor north Koreans then impose a separation on them would be laughable in how poorly it conveys events if you weren't seeking to mis-atribute the cause of a war that killed 3 million people
Damn, their whole account is gone, what did they say?
Huh, surprised they got banned since that seems to be broadly true esp in context of your second point, maybe it was a different comment that got them nuked
They were evading their ban. They've made hundreds of accounts because they get banned constantly for being a dick to everyone they consider American.
I keep calling them out and reporting them every time they do so, and they're getting very upset about it. Apparently I'm a snitch that needs to die lmao.
And the standard penalty for invading another country is being bombed into the stone age? Nothing you said justifies what happened. Were NK bad? Fuck yes! Does that justify killing a quarter of their people? I hope you don't think so, or you are at least are willing to massacre close to a hundred million Americans for consistency sake.
The standard penalty for starting a war is being in a state of war, during which your opponents will try to kill you. Until the war is over your opponents will keep trying to kill you.
Its worth noting that armestice wasn't reached until Stalin died and the new soviet leaders weren't interested in prolonging the war, which suggests that the belligerents in the conflict were happy to continue it as Koreans continued to die in order to support their territorial and idiological designs.
In my opinion the US shouldn't have crossed the 38th parallel north, doing so brought china into the war and ended the possibility of a quick end to the war and fewer deaths, but that sin pales in comparison to starting the invasion in the first place.
The real tragedy is the same as it ever is in wars, innocent civilians and young soldiers die in droves because someone in power wanted more land, more subjects, more resources more power and made the decision to take it at the cost of these lives.
And let's not pretend that if the ROK and the US didn't fight there wouldn't have been massacres of civilians, purges of intellectuals and "political dissidents" and forced migration.
The community we are in is somewhat appropriate when you are advocating that "war is bad" so people shouldn't fight back when they are invaded because people die or powerful nations shouldn't militarily support victims of invasions because that "prolongs the war" during which yes; people die. I see enough of that from the various anti-ukraine/pro-russia shills, it's nice to see that logic gets applied to other cases where a country with red in it's flag tries to annex its neighbour too.
It sounds to me like you think anything is fair in war. Provide as much random background as you want, none of it justifies the scale of destruction. Just look it up on Wikipedia and tell me again that it's just war and it was all necessary to prevent the undoubtedly awful things NK had planned.
Way to disengage with every point made and assume I am a warmonger.
I did almost include a paragraph on the morality of the bombing of Pyongyang, but after some thought I realise it wasn't even a decade after ww2 and area bombing cities was part of how America and its allies won that conflict.
Would you say bombing Germany was necessary or justified to stop facism in Europe? Was the bombing of Japan necessary or justified to end Japanese subjugation of Asia?
I'm not sure I have a consistent position on this, it feels like the bombing of Korea was excessive but the bombing of Germany was necessary, but I can't find a good justification for that split.
Either way I'm not particularly interested in defending the US's conduct, but the original commenter presenting the invading country as being innocent and laying all the blame for the war at the feet of the US is gross.
This isn't even getting into the fact that NK has one of the worst human rights records in the world.
But you made no good points. The only consistent root position for your arguments to me was "everything good guys do is okay" and "war isn't nice". That's why I decided to cut to the chase and ask the only relevant question. Tangential historical waffle for vague justification, without addressing the point, doesn't interest me. Either it's okay to kill 20% of a country, while claiming the moral high ground, or it isn't.
Bombing of Germany and Japan was necessary sure, but the degree and targets are in question. Did they need to level Dresden or nuke Japanese cities? Did they have to target civilians en mass? No, they were just barbarians invoking "turnabout is fair play" and offering mealy-mouthed "war isn't nice" canards in their own defence. Japan, in particular, was just a test of their new toy, perhaps one of the most disgusting things ever done. Notably in neither of these cases did the allies destroy 85% buildings for an entire country and kill a such a large fraction of the population.
Perhaps the undoubtedly vile Kim regime has been so hard to dislodge because the "good guys" inflicted such unnecessary mass destruction and trauma. It's very easy to sell a narrative that the world is out to get you when the world was actually out to get your parents.
It's amazing when people say these things. Even Wikipedia will tell you 85% of all structures in North Korea were destroyed. No one even bothered to estimate military versus civilian deaths. I fucking hate tankies but there's no point in being useless bullshitters ourselves. People with no regard for the truth are even worse than tankies.
some general(?) in the US air-force at the time complained that there was no more targets left to bomb