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world·World NewsbyMicroWave

Trump says EU must buy $350B of US energy to get tariff relief

Summary

Trump has rejected the EU's "zero-for-zero" tariff offer on cars and industrial goods, demanding instead that the bloc commit to purchasing $350 billion of American energy to offset the trade deficit.

Following his implementation of 20% tariffs on EU goods last week, which triggered significant market downturns, Trump indicated openness to negotiations while emphasizing his "America First" stance.

He also criticized EU product standards as "non-monetary barriers" designed to block American exports.

Trump says EU must buy $350B of US energy to get tariff reliefhttps://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-says-eu-must-buy-350b-of-us-energy-to-get-tariff-relief/Open linkView original on lemmy.world

This is just Mafia like extortion. It doesnt really matter now if/when these tariffs are undone - Trump has totally destroyed the US reputation as a reliable ally and trade partmer.

No deal with the US is worth the paper its written on, as everything is dependent on the whims of one person.

Presidential systems are sources of weakness and instabilty it seems. They're no better than monarchs, and the whole system can easily be twisted into dictatorship. Look at Russia and now the US.

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Turns out that allowing people to choose from a very limited pool of potential rulers every couple of years doesn't actually give them any real power over their society, and maybe it's just a way to delay revolution while the true ruling class gets all the benefits of the old monarchs with almost none of the blowback, because we're all too divided over which potential ruler is less blatantly evil to address the real problems.

It's a very effective method of social control, but it would be a really bad idea for one of the de facto ruling class to try to step into the de jure ruler's office and try to run it for himself like a dictator. That would probably blow up in his face.

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Cporeply

And Azure (process is already running at work) and Google workplace like things (searching for a eu partner).

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It's a classical pol sci example for how to do or not do things. Emerging democracy's that adapts presidential systems are far easier to go back to a dictatorship than a semi presidential or parliamentary system is. So all US advisors in south America pushed for presidential systems.

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Skuareply
kbin.earth

Coordinate with China on this shit. The EU and China may have their differences, but they have a common goal here and together they substantially outweigh the US

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sh.itjust.works

Maybe we are going to see a unification of the world over this! Everyone rallies together to fight the U.S. tariffs, and then there's no more U.S.! World peace at last. Thanks Trump!

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Yeah!! I hope the rest of the world isolates and ices out the US from global trade. It can be done!!!

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Or choose to ignore us American interlecutal property and start the second golden age of piracy

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lemmy.ml

EU should target the services. US exports services like google, meta etc than goods. If that happens, US goes to depression.

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Mothrareply
mander.xyz

I don't live anywhere in the northern hemisphere and I can't say I know much about economy and international affairs. Which targeted tariffs you think the EU will impose that will cripple US?

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discuss.tchncs.de

Either tariff all big tech companies or just outright ban them from being allowed in the public sector. If you ban amazon, microsoft, google, meta, etc then the US economy will be in shambles. Big techs revenue is like ~10% of the total US GDP.

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No, but the plan is floating around to tax EU used data for foreign companies right into unprofitablily.

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Yes, EU politicians are grateful and honest, they'd never betray someone who has paid them so many bribes over so many years.

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discuss.tchncs.de

Nah. They have been preparing for this for years. There are ready to use replacement for most of the really important pieces of software. This would be the big push that was always needed to get technological independence from the US.

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Aliktrenreply
lemmy.world

Horse shit to be frank. Aws and google cloud are huge and companies move slowly, if the top 100 euro companies decided to all get off these platforms now it would take months and months of unplanned intense effort and money

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discuss.tchncs.de

it would take months and months of unplanned intense effort and money

You know how much it costs EU taxpayers and customers to pay for the usage and licensing of US tech? Its absolutely absurd and most companies here are fed up with it. They will take any good alternative if its presented to them in a trustworthy manner.

The move to cloud based stuff was mostly vibes and marketing based. On prem has been shown to be cheaper, more reliable, more secure, more flexible.

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If its so expensive, why doesn't European companies make more competitive alternatives?

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lemmy.ca

I'm not no sure. 90%+ of these services are commodities and nobody gives a damn who the provider is from a technical perspective. There's no physical component, so it's literally a matter of signing a contract, spinning up a server/service, move the data and point everything to the new service.

And yeah, there are technical issues that come up, and nothing is ever that easy. But think about how fast many, many companies were able to sort that kind stuff out when the had to when COVID hit.

And that's the thing. Cloud service disruption can be an existential crisis, so why would you leave it in the hands of a hostile foreign power?

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There are physical data centres that are not trivial to build and run. As I understand it, these tend to be run by the big US tech companies. So if you switch to EU service companies that are still using AWS, Google Cloud or Azure backends, you haven't really switched away from US tech companies.

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AugustWestreply
lemm.ee

Some of the companies I have been working with were already beginning to leave. The realization that cloud pricing will only go up AND being locked into it made them very wary. Some of the planning was already underway, this may only accelerate those plans.

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Great for them, there will be a lot that only just got through their first painful migrations

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0x0reply
lemmy.zip

They have been preparing? You sure about that?

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Yup. Ignore all the buzzwords in this lol https://euro-stack.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/EuroStack_2025.pdf

The EU has been funding and pushing for locally run tech for a while. Matrix is increasingly becoming the base layer for all public sector communications for example. The biggest thing holding back locally developed stuff is just the easy availability of US based solutions. Take that out of the equation and people will just switch to the next best thing, which is usually not much of a downgrade.

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andallthatreply
lemmy.world

More likely, they have been discussing about maybe starting official talks about what it would take to prepare, hypothetically.

But that doesn't mean there aren't alternatives to most big tech services that could be setup quickly. I personally ditched Amazon (shop and video... AWS doesn't depend on me personally) Meta and most of Google without sweating too much. Also, while convenient, none of their consumer tech is critical; we've lived without any of it until recently enough, so we could probably adapt to do without it for a while if we had to.

The parts I think (and I'm not an expert by any means) where Europe is completely vulnerable are payment/banking systems and advanced electronics.

On electronics, there's also China, which isn't a great alternative to depend on... But if Trump decided to weaponize SWIFT or the major credit cards, could he switch most of our banking system off?

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SWIFT is actually European - Belgian in fact, it's just that the US has an outsized influence through the dollar. Visa and Mastercard has several EU alternatives, the only caveat with them is that each of them only works in their respective countries.

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0x0reply

I think SEPA mitigates that dependency on Visa/MasterCard. Not being an expert I think the main issue is banks resisting change (and most likely getting kickbacks).

Electronics come from China and Taiwan anyway (i'm considering Intel/AMD CPUs as "advanced electronics" and even on that there are EU-babysteps towards advancing RISC-V).

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Lol not a chance. Maybe there's been some work in the public sector, but remove Amazon and MS and you'll remove the vast majority of companies.

The EU should push for their own cloud and "encourage" (ie "there's a chance that in 5 years you won't be able to use anything that's not in the EU, better prepare") companies and the public administration to migrate.

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I personally am loving the non-tarrif retaliation by China on the US. Basically banning exports to the US of critical minerals that only they produce. Love to see it.

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EU tariffs alone would not be that painful on their own, but add in Asian tarrifs and perhaps some South American numbers... maybe bring the penguins in too.

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lemm.ee

They should say "okay but only green energy, no oil or gas"

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FreshLightreply
sh.itjust.works

I guarantee that all of a sudden the only energy the USA produces would be green. (According to the USA)

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sh.itjust.works

Sounds like there won't be any good faith negotiations with the US.

This sounds like BS, does the US even have enough capxitt or export $350 billion worth of energy (oil, LNG?).

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lemmy.world

Even I can sell $350B worth of energy if I increase the price enough.

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fedia.io

But he said the tariffs were permanent. This was not a 'negotiating' tactic. Oh wait, he fucking lied, like he does every time he breathes. This is the "art of the deal", AKA the bad deal. What an idiot bully con man. President Felon.

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They basically are permanent if his alternative is the EU buying the entire GDP of Finland in extra LNG every year

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taladarreply
sh.itjust.works

What nobody realized is that the "art" in "art of the deal" was one of those modern "monkey threw feces at the wall" type of art pieces.

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We don't put children in charge of shit they don't understand for a reason. You don't understand that, either.

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These are mob tactics. He is adopting the fucking Sopranos as international policy. This isn't childish, it's thuggish.

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dickalanreply
lemmy.world

How about you fuck off and let people speak their mind on the Internet you creep

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Just say no EU. The more he hears the word the more it will drive home how wrong he is. Of course his type is incapable of admitting that they are wrong.

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Lit
lemmy.world

They don't need $350B of US energy. why not sell something they need instead for forcing your customer to eat "McDonald's" when they don't need or want to.

Might as well force penguins to buy ice cube and snow made in US.

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If they needed it, they'd have bought it. The whole point with all this is, to have the rest of the world buy stuff from the US, that they don't neen or already buy from other places because it makes more sense. There is no logic - it is straight up blackmail

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Honestly, pressuring someone into a purchase is how they start to think that maybe your products aren't worth their perceived value. Otherwise, why the hard sell?

Art of the deal, my ass. I wonder if he can even feel embarrassment or if he simply hides it behind his "masterful leader" persona.

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I'm pretty sure he knows they don't need it and that that's the point. He's probably trying to force to buy stuff they don't need in addition to the stuff they need, which they'll buy anyway.

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He also criticized EU product standards as “non-monetary barriers” designed to block American exports.

lol, lmfao even

product standards exist for a reason.

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lemmy.sdf.org

Wait, wait, wait.

Trump, under the direction of parties unknown, is trying to force the EU to buy U.S. energy resources, and that’s the linchpin of his trade war with them?

Is he trying to give Europe a nudge back to Russian oil supplies?

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lemm.ee

If you’re a (western) European leader returning to Russian energy is at best shortsighted amnesia, at worst blatant malfeasance. There’s several reasons to not go back to Russia:

  • Official legal based sanctions on Russian energy
  • Ukrainian drone based ‘sanctions’ on Russian energy
  • Russia’s track record of energy blackmail/hybrid warfare
  • LNG and oil production available in your EEZ/the EU, albeit at higher cost than imported
  • Domestic solar, hydro, and wind manufacturing/generation is ramping up
  • French nuclear energy exports
  • Domestic politics ie. voters turning against Russian imperial aggression/expansionism

Eastern Europe has a slightly different incentive mix, but there’s still a lot of reasons to not

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Monumentreply
lemmy.sdf.org

Those are very well considered points, but Trump is an idiot.

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Commit to renewables. I’d advocate for a nuclear powered off-ramp from fossils whilst renewable capacity and infrastructure is built, but I get that each nation has its own history with fission.

Energy security is fundamental for a robust society and economy - otherwise you’re subject to pipeline shutoffs/attacks, oil embargoes/quotas, or another angle for outside nations to influence or control you. For example, if you’re chill with the French and build your economic strategy around buying their surplus energy, that strategy predicated on the French having a surplus to sell you.

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Most of these are not really a problem though, even less for the kind of psychos that run the EU. Sanctions can be lifted, and Ukraine shouldn't be able to do much against both Russia and the EU. While renewables and nuclear are increasing, Russian energy could help until they are 100% ready. Voters won't do much if they are told "see, the US is trying to scam us, and in these trying times we've struck a deal with Russia and you'll be paying less for power and heat".

The problem with striking a deal with Russia is that it's not the most reliable partner right now (your 3rd point), but the people in charge can ignore the rest and have no problems sleeping.

Edit: this is not a defense of Russia but a critique of the powers that be in the EU.

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lemmy.world

I really hope that EU will remain strong and not fall for any of this BS!

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lemmy.world

Ah, so now they are begging for money. Hard no, pass, skip, forget it, we're good thanks.

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" I fully share your loathing of European free-loading. It's PATHETIC.”

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Ues, becoming energy dependent on this belligerent administration sounds like a great idea

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axh
lemmy.world

Ok, let's negotiate. How about this: I'll buy one Big Mac, and in return US will buy 3000 Volkswagens, 1500 Mercedes(es?!?) and at least 3 French or Italian cars...

That way the US ends up with good cars, and I am willing to risk my own health in order to improve the relations.

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Tujioreply
lemmy.world

Maaaaybe an Alfa, but I'm not buying a damn Fiat.

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Ferrari and Lambo are still cars, with how they are ripping off the middle class, there should be enough billionaires

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Why would you buy an alfa? They break before they leave the dealership

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lemmy.world

He says a lot of shit that doesn't make any sense.

Seriously, he's demented.

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Noodle07reply
lemmy.world

I don't think he's more demented than he used to be years ago 🤷

0

If you watch him in videos from the 80s and 90s, back then, he could actually form a coherent sentence. He was still a narcissistic asshole, but his mental acuity has definitely declined

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Pass. I hear China has a lot of spare renewable stuff on discount now that you're no longer going to be trading with them, we'll enjoy those instead.

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EU should squeeze the Tariff wokism out of Snowflake Trump.

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I think we should smoke that orange asshole out by immediately retaliating with the exact same percentage tariffs.

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This fucking moron. So he shuts down green energy initiatives here, tries to push oil, then tries to force other countries to buy dirty energy. Fucks sake man it's something new every day.

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In 2023, the United States imported about 8.51 million barrels per day (b/d) of petroleum from 86 countries. In 2023, the United States exported about 10.15 million b/d of petroleum to 173 countries and 3 U.S. territories.

The resulting total net petroleum imports (imports minus exports) were about -1.64 million b/d, which means that the United States was a net petroleum exporter of 1.64 million b/d in 2023.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

The US hasn't been a net importer of oil for a long time. The reason there is still oil imports in the US is due to different oil types and refinery configurations, not because total oil production doesn't meet demand.

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at this point i think the game is just to do something even dumber the next so people forget the other stupid shit like gulf of murica or whatever the idiot came up with the last weeks. he just put a tariffs on eggs...on costly precious eggs....a madman.

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How pathetic would it be if oil is gonna be the tipping point for americans. Look, we liked the racist, he might be a pedophile, a rapist and overall sex pest, he's obese, lazy, he plays more golf than doing actual work, he looks like a potato that once wore his adult toddler pants backwards, he might ahit his pants every now and then and he's robbing us blind in front of our eyes, he once tried to nuke a hurricane and he's cutting school lunches and wants nothing more than a military parade like every dictator, and maybe fascism is actually cool.... But expensive oil? In MY america, hell no, i want to pollute the world and i want to do it cheap

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lemm.ee

There is zero chance that tariffs will go away by trump's own actions in the short term. He's committed to using them as the method of paying billionaires off with their tax cuts that have us very underwater right now.

The trade deficit is just some smoke and mirrors that they are using to say "look how unfair they are!" and to decline any rational negotiations for free trade.

he might make short term pauses especially if he will get something from it for his buddies, but he's not looking to use any other revenue strategy. He's there to cut anything going to people who don't vote for him or pay him (don't forget that the billionaires all just kissed the ring with 1M for his inauguration party.) He's just going to keep the trump sales tax strategy as his method of enriching the wealthy. Life is cheap when you make vast in excess of the taxed bare necessities with interest or dividends alone.

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There is zero chance that tariffs will go away by trump’s own actions in the short term. He’s committed to using them as the method of paying billionaires off with their tax cuts that have us very underwater right now.

Other than those same oligarchs metaphorically smacking him in the back of the head for crashing thier stock market and risking a depression.

At this point, they would have cost them less to elect Harris and pay the taxes.

1
lemmy.world

I assume we have some sort of underwater power line, but at first I was like: what are they gonna use to transport it? Buckets?

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Since Trump's idea of energy is coal, quite possibly. Brought to you on a coal-powered steamboat.

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That's like walking past a McDonald's and having the manager grab you and drag you inside the store and force you to buy some McNuggets. I am scared that Trump is not an idiot and knows exactly what he wants to achieve. It starts with "I'll show them...".

1

And if the EU needed any further incentive to keep rushing for renewable energy, here it is.

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feddit.it

It was ridiculous to see massive ships that took natural gas to Europe instead of using the huge gas pipes coming from Russia.

Ridiculous Ridiculous kids

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lemmy.world

Feeding money to Russia was madness and had to be stopped as a priority. Nothing ridiculous about it.

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I know why they did it, but from a logical pov it hurt

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Right. Feeding Trump's kingdom of madness is so much better. What might possibly go wrong...

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Tell Russia that, the EU never turned them off or stopped ordering. It was Russia who turned them off to try to bully the EU.

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0x0reply
lemmy.zip

Those gas pipes never stopped being used.

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