'You felt you could disregard it?': Judge grills Trump DOJ over White House ignoring oral order
Summary
A federal judge criticized a Trump administration Justice Department lawyer who claimed they didn't have to follow the judge's oral order blocking deportations to El Salvador because it wasn't in writing.
Judge Boasberg questioned why the administration ignored his directive to return immigrants to the US. The DOJ lawyer repeatedly refused to provide information about the deportations, citing "national security concerns."
Frustrated, Boasberg ordered sworn declarations explaining what happened, quipping that he would issue a written order "since apparently my verbal orders don't seem to carry much weight."
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/you-felt-you-could-disregard-it-judge-grills-trump-doj-over-white-house-ignoring-court-order-because-it-was-oral-quips-his-verbal-rulings-dont-seem-to-carry-much-weight-anymore/Open linkView original on lemmy.world841
Comments134
Throw. That. Lawyer. In. PRISON. There may be no way to enforce the law on Trump himself, but make lawyers afraid to do his dirty work.
Wouldn't Trump just pardon them?
Make him do it. Make him do it over and over. New contempt charges every time one of these asshat lawyers refuses a lawful court order. Take up all of Trump's time with having to continuously pardon his own lawyers.
It literally takes trump 20 seconds to tell an aid to start paperwork for a pardon.
After 8 years of watching the legal system completely and utterly fumble any semblance of justice against Trump, it is bizarre to see you hail legal action as the ultimate method of dismantling the Trump regime. Big "I think Mueller is still going to bring Trump down!" energy.
Nothing will change until the ruling class have fear in their hearts, and if the most obstructive and radical thing you can imagine is "waste trumps time by making him pardon an extra 15 people" also happens to be the prevalent mindset of other liberals, then yall are mega doomed.
Did anyone say it was the only method on the table?
Fair enough. That was wrong of me to falsely insinuate.
However, I'd still posit that these sort of milquetoast strategies are so ineffective and distracting, that they ought to not be brought up at all since they defang otherwise radical people and distract from real solutions.
In other words, Trump and team would like nothing more than for the opposition to waste untold millions in legal fees (and weeks of prolonged court time) all to make him auto pen a document over the course of 15 minutes. These suggestions are worth less than nothing.
Nowhere did I say that was the "ultimate method." Every single thing the orange asshole tries to do should be obstructed and interfered with in every way possible.
The point isn’t really to inconvenience him though. It’s to cede no ground without documented abuse of power.
Absolutely. Make them show outright that they are using authoritarian tactics. Make it known to all that they're fascists and that they don't care about democratic principles or the rule of law.
Make every Trump voters uncomfortable and understand they voted to end this democratic republic.
He can't pardon a disbarment, though!
No. You go through the bar and remove their license.
I don't think he can. Courts have the power to hold people until they comply with a court order.
Technically so does congress although it's never done.
US Marshalls, however, are a real thing and work for the judiciary.
Edit: ugh, they are responsible for carrying out what the judiciary needs, but it's still part of the executive (DoJ).
I was holding hope for the US Marshalls taking action without the AG calling on them based on what they represent, but they have been helping the Trump with his illegal takeovers of DOGE even assisting with breaking and entering... So it's probably unlikely they will do anything to assist with reigning in the president.
Make Attorneys Get Attorneys.
Throw everyone who implemented it in prison. Trump may have made himself an untouchable dictator but just himself.
Remember that loyalty only goes one way, unless it’s in trumps personal interest such as profiting from it. Make him go on record as either pardoning the criminals or dropping them
What about all the hardcore criminals he sent out, should we bring them all back and release them?
Of course not. The normal justice system applies; assuming they are legitimately suspected of a crime, they are held until they can be given a fair trial and their fate determined by just means. That's how the system works to punish the guilty and exonerate the innocent. Your assumption that these are all "hardcore criminals" is a media product; how has this been determined? It has not. The only just way to determine it is with a trial.
And even if found guilty and justly imprisoned after due process, that doesn’t mean they can legally be deported. If they’re legally in the country then they’re legally in the country
"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one."
He didn't feel he could disregard it.
He successfully disregarded it.
His written orders won’t do anything either. Who knew the constitution can be so easily ripped to shreds by simply ignoring it.
This should have been fixed in the 1800s when Andrew Jackson defied the Supreme Court, but it was ignored and here we are
☒ Soap box ☒ Ballot box ☒ Jury box ☐ Ammo box
Promises promises.
He shouldn't be letting those attorneys leave the courtroom free men. Hold them in contempt and issue bench warrants for administration officials and anyone carrying out these illegal orders.
This is the only correct response, any other response means that the federal government does not in practice have checks and balances
It also forces Trump's hand. Either publicly reveal, right now that he is an all-out dictator instead of slow-rolling it, or fold and lose any momentum he has.
If a violent revolution is needed to take him down, the sooner everyone knows about it, the better.
Yeah, slow nibbling at fascism is how the world got Hitler. Out the despot now.
I think the seeds for this were sown in the post 9/11 secret court system, in which the US govt authorized itself to break national and international law.
Even in that case, they claimed there was due process. It may not have been public or aboveboard but they claimed due process. Maybe there was, we can’t tell because it was secret. Worst case scenario, they pretended.
No one even pretends anymore.
This is even worse, I'm just pointing out that in legal terms the US has been heating this particular frog for quite a while now.
This is kind of insane to witness unfold in real time. These fossils don’t understand that they’ve been stripped from their institutional powers. They are literally not able to understand what’s happening even if it’s totally transparent to anyone watching.
Oh brother..
No, he can be questioned about official acts. The wording is that the judiciary decides what is an official act, so if they decide it is, he cannot be punished criminally for what is otherwise a criminal act. The Supreme Court did a bunch of power grabs for itself and effectively declared that Congress couldn’t do squat other than impeachment against the president and the only check on the president’s power was whether the judiciary agreed with him.
Now Trump’s attacking the judiciary and has made the chief justice have to make a statement that his challenges to his legitimacy will not stand, so I would expect to see a bunch of cases go against Trump just as a judiciary show of force, much like his citizenship emergency challenge where they told him to fuck off and they’d slow walk his case.
Trump could have ended democracy quite easily if he wasn’t in such a damn hurry to get shit done and snubbing all of the power brokers that he needs to implement his plans is forcing a bunch of needless shit. When the economy is fully in shambles in a few months and the ad spend slows down for media companies, I’d expect them to pounce on how much shit he fucked up. It’s wild seeing WSJ realizing the problem that’s coming down the pipeline and the Murdoch rag shitting on him in the editorials rather than WaPo.
If something... Unfortunate... Were to happen to Roberts, I guarantee that the rest of the justices would rule in Trump's favor for the rest of his term with a wide-eyed "fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck" smile plastered on their faces the entire time
It was disregarded because it was a vocal demand when the criminals were already halfway to their destination. If we allowed a federal judge to say "wait, don't do that!" and express vocally their outrage, to the POTUS every time they disagreed, there would be no point in having a person voted as President.
The whole point of judiciary is to resolve damages and it's actually really important that they can issue orders quickly to prevent "irreversible damages", courts use injunctions all the time even before coming to any kind of decision in order to give time for due process to happen. Especially when there is possibility of harm coming to an individual.
They feel that they can ignore it because they can ignore it. Stop letting them!
How do they do that? Their enforcers work for Trump.
They can deputize citizens to carry out the orders too
Then if the deputies fail you start sheriffizing people.
Sheriffs are usually elected, not appointed. It’s one of the big reasons decriminalization is so difficult; No elected cop wants to look soft on crime, because their opponents can use it against them in smear campaigns during the next election.
Nah, you just start deputizing more effective people. Like ex special forces
Wahoo it's-a me Luigi
The US Marshalls don't, I thought.
US Marshals are under DoJ.
*Marshals
You're right, thank you.
Well considering Republicans control every branch of government, they're assuming they can and will get away with it. Even if this goes up to SCOTUS, the conservative justices will let them do what they want. One of them will "dissent" though to try to make it seem like they don't agree. They're probably behind closed doors playing rock, paper, scissors to see who "dissents" each time a hot button topic gets up to them.
Also didn't the Supreme Court just rule that you can't charge the president for crimes made in their official capacity? He can just say it was in his official capacity to ignore the orders so tough titties.
That doesn't mean his actions would stand, it just means he can't be prosecuted for it.
If he fires someone and it's ruled illegal, they get their job back or some very large settlement.
Deported people would be able to return etc.
Enforce the law! Otherwise, there really is no turning back. US Democracy is dead. Fascism wins. 🇺🇸
Oh brother... here we go again...
Show cause why I shouldn't throw your ass in the klink. That's what happens to the rest of us if we ignore a court order.
He can’t be charged with a crime while in office or for anything he does in office. So, that’s why.
I don’t disagree with you, but I think we both know how this will play out. Get ready to hide in the attic.
Hmmm… what color are you? Could be a matter of months… (hopefully not)
Hmm. Do you live in a blue state? I hope so. You might be able to blend. Can you—is this the fucking 90s?—“butch up” for the gestapo long enough to slip away? I’m having flashbacks of the Midwest.
For me, I’m a man married to a man. I’m on a list. I’m somewhat nervous about that, but I’m white like milk an own a lot of polos and chinos, so I will have some warning before the shit hits me. Fingers crossed.
Get armed and look up your local Ironfront or indivisible chapter. You are not alone, United we stand. Divided we fall.
Indigenous aren't the smallest minority?
cries in trans
The more they let them act without any consequences for their actions shows us that the constitution means nothing nowadays. Throw him or the enablers in jail, but doing nothing means checks and balances are useless. I fear for the regular people. Power has gone to the fascists and oligarchs.
And the "just following orders" folks?
I’m in the guillotine crowd, so I say “everyone,” but I’m not holding my breath there will be any.
So the second amendment is our only option?
Unless you’ve got another option….
Let me know when that happens.
You mean the people who wish death on people who are absolutely destroying humanity? Or, gun people? Because, I don’t own a gun. 🤷♂️
Going to amuse me when the left picks up the 2nd amendment they have been talking shit about my whole life and use it for its intended purpose to kill a tyrant. This whole timeline makes my brain hurt
Note Rubio saying they aren't going to stop, when explicitly told to by a judge. That's called sedition last I knew.
people would be willing if they could ever get the message out.
Uh oh! This Judge sounds PISSED! SOON Trump is going to get a STERNLY WRITTEN LETTER! And if they DEFY that? OH Boy! ANOTHER letter will be on the way!
You guys literally got my overweight middle aged ass giggling like an imbecile in my office at work
Well if the order wasn't enforced... yes?
These psychos aren't stopped by words.
So what is the judge going to do? Admonish them?
Judge Boasberg does have one other card he can play, according to FRCJ Rule 4.1(b). If the US Marshal service is unable or unwilling to carry out a federal court order, the Judge who issued the order can deputize individuals to carry it out.
Sounds like a "well-ordered militia" is called for.
Could they deputize, say, the military?
Not just the military. I draw your attention to this, emphasis mine
Section (b) says:
The line:
is interesting because it does not specify who is qualified to be appointed. Now, I am concerned that this language means that Judge Boasberg may only appoint one person, but if he seems it necessary, he could probably get away with appointing more.
Could he appoint one person who then assembles a "task force" of individuals who support them? Or do they have to be each appointed by the judge himself for that specific task?I think one guy isn't going to cut it, but if 500 guys show up on the WH lawn to enforce the court order it might have some weight.
At the end of Inglorious Basterds, Aldo Raines has his man kill Hans Landa's assistant. Landa screams "You'll be shot for that!" and Aldo says:
"Shot? I don't think so, more like chewed out. I been chewed out before."
During the first administration KellyAnne "SkankySkag" Conway received numerous fines for her near constant violations of the Hatch Act, eventually reaching $100,000, which she never paid. When asked about it, she casually dismissed it, saying "Let me know when they start talking about jail time."
Things like censure, polls, stern warnings, appeals to morality, etc. Mean less than nothing to these traitors. They are determined to destroy America, and nothing less than harsh imprisonment will get through to them. If we get through this, we need to viciously purge MAGA from society and prohibit it's existence.
One one way to do that
He'll move up to SLAMS next
don't let this man distract you
Slamming the meat on the grill!
I'm expecting the Judicial will go as far as BASHED
So just to be clear, this is within the domain of “constitutional crisis” that the vast majority of Americans who graduated from high school will have certainly been taught about at some point. But precisely zero major news networks or newspapers are calling it as such.
Evidently a comically dismaying proportion of us unitedstatesians need to be told when our own fucking house is on fire. And even then, 30ish% of us will deny it as the flesh melts off their own bones.
You know what.
That's sadder.
30% of us probably are okay with burning alive. It’s less work than living.
What a strongly worded condemnation!
Anyway
You should have seen the glare of severe consternation the judge cast towards the back of the exiting lawyer!!!
Like at what point does everyone else in the government finally say "ok we have to treat them as treasonous" this is a madhouse full of complacent fools.
At this point I don't see the politicians being the people to save us. Honestly don't know what the military would do either. They'd probably fight internally until the MAGA component wins or gets squashed.
So much can change so quickly. That's usually how the big changes go, especially when they are unfavorable.
Save you from what? Is your life ruined? Are we all losing our rights in the US? Are we all being deported? How bad is your life right now, that you need "saving?"
Written orders probably won't carry any weight either since he probably can't read even if he attempted to.
I'm waiting for people to connect the dots around my town. People's rights begin with legislation and end with judicial decision. Being that the bill of rights is being overridden by the executive branch right now, judges have said so and the executive branch is saying they don't care, it is fairly obvious the bill of rights no longer matters. So pick any amendment you like from the bill or rights, free speech, free press... Right the bear arms. Yup, gone. The conservatives nullified the right to bear arms and is cheering for it. By the time they think they should speak out about it, well they'll maybe realize they already cheered for the loss of their freedom of speech. Oops
Oh snap he GRILLED him!?!? Damn! Trump is going down!!! #RESIST
\s
Lol
Judge SLAMS Trump with no legal action whatsoever.
Correct me if I'm wrong but what could the judge even do to these DoJ staff? Throw them in jail for a few days? Trump would just pardon them, wouldn't he?
Public/private reprimand is the first step I think. The judge could also probably suspend their license, or possibly influence their getting disbarred if the lawyer fucks up enough. Probably couldn't throw them in jail unless they were accused of a crime, but that would only be pardonable if it was a federal crime.
I’m sure they’ll cry “partisanship”, but put them in jail if relevant. I imagine at least some will be dissuaded by charges and prison even if they can count on a pardon. At least some will be kept out of politics after our four years of hell, even if they can count on a pardon. Even in the very worst case scenario where they get away with everything, legitimate charges will help cement the legacy as the most corrupt president ever.
They already are.
way more than about Trump
legal precedents that uphold other legal precedents are being dismantled like they already were being done away with before Trump
more precedents that go away the more personal freedoms and civil liberties goes away
need a revolution
Oh brother... how horrible is your life? `
And if you put it in writing, it’ll be on the wrong letterhead.
Or you didn’t sign it.
Or you signed it with autopen.
Did he suffer any serious consequences, No, then why the fuck wouldn't he disregard it and will continue to do so in the future. Why are people in power in this country either evil and inept or simply inept against the evil ones
Lay out the alternative for us.
Alternative to what?
Following through with the judicial processes laid out in the constitution
Are they doing that thought?, I see news about the constitution being subverted everyday but I don't see any concrete actions being taken to punish those doing so, and stop it from happening, this country is headed towards a dictatorship and politics are writing strongly worded letters and holding protest placards up as if that does anything
The next step up from ignoring federal judges goes one of two ways. US marshals arrest the president or it plays out like Hans litten.
So the judge is putting Trump in a cell for disobeying the law?
'You felt you could disregard it?'
Narrator: He did.
I believe they thought they could ignore the order because they could ignore the order.
US is fucked. Nobody in US cares anymore, because if they did they'd be out on the streets by the millions.
Are we still pretending this matters anymore?
The same laws that make him President, are the same law in which we allow it
Chicken shit judge
A strongly worded email is the best they could do?
I'm just shocked that so many of you are okay with a judge deciding that all those criminals should remain in the US...I mean, this is why ya'll lost the elections...
How do you know for sure that they're criminals, just because they're not American? None of them have even been charged with anything. Innocent until proven guilty.
You should be more concerned about the convicted rapist with 34 felonies who is currently in the oval office. Also quit being a racist piece of shit.
You are really that gullible, huh?
As opposed to the Left? Because they're not gullible at all, right? LOL
Imagine that, judges decided on criminals' fate. Next they will want to decide who is even a criminal.
Oh brother... leave up to Liberals to want hardcore rapists and murderers to stay in the US... they're only doing this because it's Trump.. and we both know it.
I ain't your brother, what I do know is that right wingers hate foreigners, the alleged crimes being just an excuse.
Okay, bruh.