Spyke
lemm.ee

Evolutionarily, it only matters that you reproduce.

124
the_beberreply
lemm.ee

I can‘t even do that. The reason: Skill issue

69
FundMECFSreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

… and that your children survive to reproduce

Otherwise we’d have no incentive to care for our kids.

12
pr0sp3ktreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

We DO NOT have any incentive to grow up kids. I have never feel that impulse...

0
Schmooreply
slrpnk.net

People generally have a sex drive, then develop an instinctual drive to protect their children after they are born. Of course, contraception allows us to sate our sex drive without it resulting in children, so you can choose to opt out of the evolutionary process before you develop an instinctual drive to raise children in the first place. Most people still have that instinct ready to kick in for a child that is not their own if such a situation arises, which is still evolutionarily advantageous for the group as a whole, even if it's not for the individual.

Of course in rare cases some people lack that instinct entirely, but that's the exception not the rule.

3
FundMECFSreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Yep. Very few people would waste all their money and tear up their vagina and lose all their sleep for three years, and free time for atleast a decade, on purpose. We have an evolutionary drive to.

0

Mine is near to 0. I have never feel that I need a kid. I have felt I need sex, but I can do it without repercussions... My response is simpler: people are idiot, have sex without protection and have kids.

1
edricreply
lemm.ee

I get it, but man I can’t imagine being in the mood to reproduce while nursing an infected tooth.

5

There's a solution to this. Reproduce before it becomes an issue.

2
lemmy.world

Pre-dentistry, a bunch of your teeth would have fallen out before your wisdom teeth came in. There would have been space for the wisdom teeth so they wouldn't need to come in sideways.

82
Lyrlreply
lemm.ee

they’ve been shrinking as we evolved changed our diet

No genetic changes (evolution) happened. If as children we ate only very tough meat and lots of chewy vegetables - no bread or rice or potato softness - our same genetics would result in much larger adult jaws.

33

Gonna feed my kid nothing but well-done steaks and tree bark for the jaw gainz.

6
lemm.ee

How are we supposed to be taken seriously in glactic politics if we can't chomp aliens in a few thousand years.

8

I haven’t had my wisdom teeth extracted because my doctor said my mouth was big enough. The only real issue is brushing them so I have to clench my mouth almost shut to even reach them while brushing.

I never got all the fun drugs though.

3
ryedaftreply
sh.itjust.works

Are you sure about that? We lost so many teeth after the industrialisation of sugar production (machines and slavery) but I'm not sure how bad it was before then.

39
Maevereply
kbin.earth

Not cleaning teeth is pretty bad for teeth.

11
discuss.tchncs.de

Teeth used to get cleaned by means of chewing harder food regularly, and they needed less cleaning to start with due to a lot less sugar in those foods though

44

So I searched it up. Food that was more abrasive, no refined carbs, more fibrous, more meat, less grain, more tannins. And ancient toothbrushes from frayed twigs, which also contained natural antimicrobials!

Thanks for prompting this educational exchange!

26
Demdarureply
lemmy.world

Also, for example in medieval times, they did clean teeth with herbs and stuff.

10

Ancient Babylon and Egyptians used frayed twig, according to my search!

8
shortypigreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

And our teeth really went downhill after we started reproducing without the quality check provided by survival of the fittest. The remains of hunter gatherers generally have very nice teeth.

-4

I don't follow the logic. Human teeth would be better if more children died? That "quality check" only applies if an organism dies before mating, which happens usually around teenage years for humans.

Maybe those hunter gatherers had better teeth because of what they ate. There seems to be too many other potential factors to simply pawn it off on Darwinism.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/02/24/172688806/ancient-chompers-were-healthier-than-ours

In a study published in the latest Nature Genetics, Cooper and his research team looked at calcified plaque on ancient teeth from 34 prehistoric human skeletons. What they found was that as our diets changed over time — shifting from meat, vegetables and nuts to carbohydrates and sugar — so too did the composition of bacteria in our mouths.

However, the researchers found that as prehistoric humans transitioned from hunting and gathering to farming, certain types of disease-causing bacteria that were particularly efficient at using carbohydrates started to win out over other types of "friendly" bacteria in human mouths. The addition of processed flour and sugar during the Industrial Revolution only made matters worse.

12
ryedaftreply
sh.itjust.works

Nah.

There seems to be a genetic variation that eliminates some or all wisdom teeth. It arose in Asia so long ago that the people who populated North and South America also had it. And in most populations it is still not very prevalent (less than 50%). Despite having been around for ages.

1
lemmy.world

I had to get my wisdoms out before all the baby teeth came out so pre-dentistry I’d have been fucked.

11
superkretreply
feddit.org

If you'd been fucked (and reproduced), your shitty teeth genes would have made it into the next generation.

5

This reads like dentistry from the 1800s. You would've been a great dentist there. "I need to pull these teeth to make space for what's to come".

4
lemm.ee

This is what gets me about the sentiment of "humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years without toothpaste/sunscreen/antibiotics/vaccines/etc and we were just fine!"

My dude, we were most definitely not fine. A lot of people died painful and preventable deaths, many of them children, and we're around today because existing that way was just good enough to keep us going as a species.

67
lemmy.blahaj.zone

"They were just fine!" You mean that the 40-60% of people who lived past 15 were just fine until about 50-70?

22

Just because people still lived a long time doesn’t mean they had a good time living.

16
lemmy.world

Can still hear the sound of them breaking it to get it out

51

All four of my wisdom teeth were impacted, and it took around six hours for them to be removed. Thankfully, I was unconscious during the procedure.

16

Oh this was a fast one, was back in the waiting room within 15m, 10 of which was waiting for the localised pain killer to kick in before starting.

7

Ah yes how I remember them chiseling my tooth out with a hammer. The surgeon I had was a bad ass.

6

that's me atm. luckily they've stopped moving and I don't feel any pain but it's a breeding ground of the unfunny kind

5
Agent641reply
lemmy.world

"You really shouldn't be awake for this" - the orthodontist crushing my sideways wisdom teeth with pliers so he can rip the shards out individually.

5
TwanHEreply
lemmy.world

We don't do general anesthesia for most things dental related here in NL. But after hearing the sound bounce around in my head I wish we did.

1

Fuck me, my ex-wife told me she wasn’t put to sleep but thank god I was.

Then again I had 8 teeth broken off my jaw because so maybe I was a special case …

1
lemmy.world

Well, see, your mistake is brushing your teeth and living past 30. If your back molars were properly rotten enough to gracefully pop out when the wisdoms grew in, and then you died before that one rotted and you couldn't chew anymore, you wouldn't have any problems.

Literally.

50
ShankShillreply
sh.itjust.works

Ancient humans had surprisingly good teeth. They weren't soaked in acid and sugar.

40

Depends on where they were and what they were eating. Humans are really amazing in that we can eat almost anything that's not a straight up tree, and we've existed across the planet in just about every ecological niche. I remember reading somewhere they could estimate the age of desert burial/skeleton remains on how worn the teeth are due to the sand getting in the food. But I'm sure no processed sugar is pretty beneficial tho

10

Still may have lost a few from some bucking animal you were chasing after. Or your cousin chucking a rock at the *bird" he said he saw behind you.

5

Not all. Pre industrial humans where I live ate a lot of slow roasted cactus. After 2 days buried with hot stones the cactus hearts were caramelized. I've tasted it prepared in the traditional manner and it's just syrup in a leaf. Delicious, and I have no doubt it was great energy for people that had to walk miles every day.

Anyone that lived past 30 had their teeth rot right out of their head, according to the archiological record.

3

It's because humans in the wild would lose teeth by that time and need more.

28
fedia.io

Pre-anethesia, you mean. There were dentists around for a long time, but I don't think you would've enjoyed being their patient...

25

For anybody who thinks that animals in their natural environment are all happy...yeah imagine living for decades without any sort of dental care. Evolution is about surviving, not thriving.

20

This little cunt of mine tended to inflame every other month instead of teething already. I decided to remove it, and I ended up spending almost 2 hours in surgery because it had fused into another tooth. Instead of coming out cleanly, it broke and a few fragments were left behind

Doc said it was okay to leave it as it would be absorbed or come out again eventually. Almost a year later, and the little prick sends his regards by inflaming my face completely and having to rush to surgery again.

Hopefully it was the end of that. Fuck this SOB

14
mander.xyz

Mine were growing directly sideways. I'm an evolutionary failure.

14
Halosheepreply
lemm.ee

So were mine. They had to shatter most of them to get them out.

Passed out from the pain the first time I tried to eat post operation, lol

6
Halosheepreply
lemm.ee

With the pain killers! Found out that I'm very sensitive pain that day.

3

Oh wow, that sucks. I still have trauma's from my lift bottom wisdom tooth (and my crackling jaw sometimes reminds me of it), but I don't really remembering such pain. They numbed half my mouth during the procedure, so I didn't feel anything (apart from the hammering and drilling moving my entire head). It definitely sucked when I got home, but the pain wasn't too bad

1

Yea I got dry sockets after, even after being really careful. It was a nightmare. I remember lying on the floor on the carpet drooling trying to eat mac n cheese.

1

I guess I should buy a lottery ticket, then, because my wisdom teeth came in pretty much straight. The only problem I ever have is getting anything back there for cleaning.

3

Mine ARE growing directly sideways 🫠 at least the bottom ones

1
feddit.it

Human mandible shrank a bit the last millenia, probably thanks to the rise of agricolture and easily chewable food, but that left less space for teeth to grow properly

13
Flukereply
lemm.ee

"Intelligent Design"

Fucking LOL

15
lemm.ee

I think a lot of folks assume that evolution means "all the crappy stuff whittled out over time, and only the good stuff remains" when in fact I think evolution aims for "eh, they reproduced. Good enough"

12

Creationist love to bring up all the wonderful things in the world. They tend not to bring up things like the recurrent laryngeal nerve or bot flies.

In fact, I think they're confused as to why science would even bring these up. If evolution is a religion (as they often claim), why would that religion point to something so weird or ugly? The answer is that evolution just is, and it does weird and ugly things sometimes. Our job is to study the weird and ugly things it makes while also finding a better moral system than mere evolution.

4
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Mine's are pointing 90° on the wrong direction.

They are dormant but I've warned that if they decide to start being funny I'll be fucked. :D

6

Depends. I had 4 at 90°. Only one hurt a little. They caused pockets, which are hard to clean (impossible by yourself) and can accelerate bone loss. I removed 3 of them. 2 by a jaw surgeon. They were creating a space bewteen molars deeper inside the bone, while also creating an opening at the top. Nasty.

Chronic inflamation of the gums don't hurt either. Best way to tell is by a mouth hygiënist. If your gums bleed easily while flossing, it's a good idea to keep flossing. Takes about 1-2 weeks before the gums calm down and the swelling dissipates. I use those tiny round brushes to get in between. If you start using those, m start with the thinnest wire. The metal should absolutely not scrape against the teeth, only the brush.

Taken years to form that habit...

3

I went to the dentist and he was looking at me all surprised and he said, you're jaw is so primitive, all your wisdom came through without issues.

A few years later I had to have an emergency removal because they decayed too much as I didn't brush that far back

4

Dude, more. 200% more as my wife and I sit her and suffer tonight. She’s getting it dealt with next month, mine rotting out while I wait to even get a luxury bone appointment.

You are the clear evolutionary winner.

3
darkmogoolreply
feddit.org

I only had them on the right side. Not shure what this means evolutionary…

2

It means that humans developed empathy and the scientific means to help each other avoid natural selection. Intraspecies and interspecies empathy is the cheat code against natural selection. Certain ram species, for example, also were not designed intelligently, so as they age they may grow their horns until they penetrate their skull and kill them. Natural selection is most effective when it culls prior to the life form procreating. However, thanks to the power of empathy, we can abate natural selection by performing oral surgery on humans (ideally in our adolescence for wisdom teeth removal) and by shaving rams’ horns as they age. Ideally, as science develops and empathy spreads, we can come up with more effective and painless means to ensure everybody has a chance to live and be happy.

13
lemm.ee

Every time people say "it'd be nice to live in the 50s" or something like that, I always think: "Nope, I'd never trade modern medicine for anything else."

11
edricreply
lemm.ee

Hell, even just 30 years ago was way different. My experience of getting a root canal in 2024 was a million times better than when I had one in the ‘90s.

12

Dude medical science is progressing at a rate where I might genuinely be able to cheer science on to outpace my natural aging for certain age-related procedures and ailments that commonly afflict people late in life

1

I saw the X-ray of my own jaw and they wanted to remove my wisdom teeth and were asking if they hurt (they don't) because they are fully sideways and apparently pressing against a nerve.

I ain't paying for that shit. They don't bother me. I don't care how gnarly it looks; it's unnecessary and expensive.

9

My wife did the same as you. Ten years later her wisdom teeth, in the process of trying to get out, broke one of her other teeth so she had to not only remove them but restore her once healthy tooth. Much more expensive (and painful) this way.

18

They can actually seriously fuck up your mouth very quickly, and you often won't find out until the fuckery is underway. I had two removed when the dentist told me they might cause future problems, I had no pain, but now they're out I can actually feel my teeth kinda relaxing? I guess the pressure was there but I just got used to it.

9
lemmy.world

I delayed it for maybe 10 years after they first started asking if I wanted to get them removed, then finally decided it was time about a year or two ago. The recovery sucked for a couple of days, but I don't remember my bill being exceptionally bad (I think my insurance paid quite a bit though).

8

I think my insurance paid quite a bit though

I only have the free insurance from the state and while the health insurance is excellent and covers every single thing I can think of, the dental side sucks major balls. Getting wisdom teeth removed is considered cosmetic (by the insurance provider), so they won't cover it at all, and pretty much any good dentist is expensive as fuck for anything but a cleaning or cavity fill without insurance.

5

My employer uses Cigna and with them it's $1,300. They keep asking what my pain level is and I keep telling them none. When I explain to them why I'm not getting the surgery yet they seemed absolutely baffled for some reason. They tried to get me to sign up for a medical credit card offering zero APR. I told them does zero APR mean also $0 a month, because that's about how much I can afford. And again they acted like not moving mountains and stirring the oceans was a me thing. Absolutely fucking wild.

3

teeth are “luxury bones” of course and require an extra subscription service

3
lemmy.sdf.org

Medical science is one of the only reasons I'm happy to be alive now and not during other times. Everything else is absolute shit, but our ability to manage and cure disease and the like is amazing.

9
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Yeah, going to the doctor for a headache and seeing him pull out a drill doesn't sound too fun.

5
midwest.social

Well, either you see the drill and realize you don't have that bad of a headache, or the trepanning works (or kills you).

Either way, the headache goes away lol

3

From what I have learned, apparently a lot of trepanned people didn't die from it, suprisingly. Still, very true.

1

Of you're not the majority ethnicity, not male, not abled, not an accepted sexuality, any time other than the present would've sucked much much more than today does.

3

Watched a documentary on the history of surgery and man, modern medicine is one of the things I'm grateful for.

7

I remember they were really worried that I wasn't waking up from my surgery that was scheduled from 7am to 8am. They also scolded my dad for coming in and telling "c'mon get up it's time to go" until they saw me finally getting up and groaning about it being too early. You'd think it was their first experience with a teenager...

1

This ain't evolution. This is science counterevolutionarily keeping our ancestors alive long enough to procreate who should have died. I guess it's evolution in a way since we've evolved to overcome the evolutionary concept of "survival of the fittest" or natural selection.

4
sh.itjust.works

Evolution didn't make your teeth to grow like this. While people in the past probably had shitty teeth keep in mind that modern diets filled with sugars, processed food and all sort of junk are a cause of teeth problems

-1
indexreply
sh.itjust.works

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_tooth

"The oldest known impacted wisdom tooth belonged to a European woman who lived between 13,000 and 11,000 BCE, in the Magdalenian period. Nonetheless, molar impaction was relatively rare prior to the modern era. With the Industrial Revolution, the affliction became ten times more common, owing to the new prevalence of soft, processed foods."

4

Evolution didn't make your teeth to grow like this.

Modern diets are just selection pressure. Evolution marches on.

2