AOC condemns Chuck Schumer for caving to Republicans on funding bill
Summary
Democratic divisions intensified as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Nancy Pelosi sharply criticized Chuck Schumer for supporting a Republican-led funding bill to avoid a government shutdown.
AOC called Schumer's decision a "betrayal," urging Senate Democrats to reject the legislation backed by Trump and Elon Musk. Pelosi called the bill a "devastating assault" on working families.
Schumer defended his stance, arguing a shutdown would empower Trump and Musk further.
The controversy sparked suggestions among Democrats that AOC might challenge Schumer in a primary.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/14/aoc-chuck-schumer-gop-funding-billOpen linkView original on lemmy.world1262
Comments194
Challenge him. He's has no business being a party leader if he's as spineless as the Republicans who pushed this bill.
She would have to be in the senate to take over senate leadership in the short term. For his seat itself, there's been house members - including moderates - starting to support the idea her primarying him when his term is up in 2028
https://www.axios.com/2025/03/14/house-democrats-angry-chuck-schumer-shutdown
I don’t want him out in 2028, I want him out now.
He can realistically be stripped of senate leadership in the short term. Call your senators and tell them to support removing him from leadership
🫡
I think they're implying "Run for Senate, if she wins, replace the seat of power with her."
Spinelessness is the chief defining quality of the entire Democratic Party. There are very few individual exceptions and those people need to start a new party. The US needs a real progressive party. The establishment Dems have made it very clear they won’t support a true progressive candidate, so what’s the point of bending the knee to these fuckers any longer?
And honestly now is the time to do it. I have absolutely zero faith we will have honest elections in the next couple decades so splitting the funding between neo lib corpocrats and an actual progressive party for the people will not affect the crooked elections under trump since they won’t win anyway. The time for progress is NOW
Its hard to decide if they are spineless or complicit. Not that it amounts to much of a difference in the end.
Sufficiently advanced cowardice is indistinguishable from complicity.
Take his seat TAKE HIS SEAT TAKE HIS SEAT
For real girl, you can take him in the primary. You can do it.
Primary Schumer, of course, but his term is up in 2028. AOC herself might be more focused on a separate race that particular year.
I would absolutely vote for her, and as much as I want it to happen, I’m genuinely not sure that’s realistic.
He'll be 78 in 2028. He probably will bow out of politics by then to turn things over to a younger generation.
Wait, who am I kidding?
Dude you had me going at first lol
Headline in 2035: The corpse of Chuck Schumer is considering retirement from politics
Who would have guessed that "Weekend at Bernie's" was a documentary.
They've already done it. I forget her name, but the Democrat that was so old she was in a wheelchair and non-responsive for a long time. She passed away within the last four or five years, which finally ended her political career.
And then theres McConnell, the turtle who has had a couple strokes on live television. Keeps on chuggin.
you mean diane feinstein, she died from herpes zoster, aka shingles encephalitis, immunocompromised people are more likely to get meningitis, and encephalitis from shingles(which are typically painful rashes normally), one of the severe form of shingles. the other ones are usually also rare.
You're just saying that because an AOC win would conclusively disprove the DNC's mantra that Hillary and Kamala lost because of misogyny and not neoliberalism, so they'll be desperate to stop her from becoming the candidate.
I would love it if she did win and disproved it. I’m just cautious of assuming that it’s a slam dunk. And I am also very cognizant that she is a conservative boogeyman, and that she’s made a LOT of staunch enemies in the DNC establishment (I hope that last bit won’t matter as much in 28, but who knows)
DNC establishment candidates are proven losers IMO. Only Biden won as a DNC establishment candidate in the last 20 years. The rest of the milquetoast horseshit from the DNC has lost national elections regularly and thoroughly.
Obama won despite the DNC, not because of it, and he largely sat outside of its apparatus for his entire two terms. John Kerry was garbage. HRC was garbage. Harris would've been somewhat exciting if she'd been 2020 Harris, but instead she was a DNC robot candidate that had flipped all of her progressive positions to appease the DNC apparatus...with predictable results.
It always breaks my brain when people talk about Bernie as Democrat, let alone establishment Democrat. He's Independent, and only joins them to run in their presidential primaries.
This is not a criticism of Bernie by any means. He just realizes you have no chance to be president if you aren't part of a party.
I wanna be clear: I am absolutely NOT defending DNC leadership. They are feckless in the extreme.
Agreed, neoliberalism needs to be discredited and thrown into the trash bin of history like Nazism mostly was.
In 28 the chance of fair elections is less than zero. I don’t imagine anything than every state being declared red regardless of outcome and of course nobody doing anything about it.
the amount of rigging from the last 2 election was not addressed one bit, and the MSM for obvious reasons will never report it as well.
Then why are you even discussing electrical politics? If that is what you really believe, then you should be building bombs, not discussing politics.
One because i won’t encourage anyone to build mass death devices? But two because I want to and at least for now we’re allowed to? Who are you the fucking discussion police?
If she is ever going to be president, she has to win a senate seat. Thats where we find out if its possible. I think it is becauae she isbwilling to put in thw work.
I hope it's as VP, though. I would love for her to run for president, but the country isn't close to mature enough for that to happen.
Waltz would be the perfect choice.
"AOC is amazing, but..."
I have never understood this rhetoric.
She is more than qualified, has enough experience where she is out there educating her colleagues & the public about governmental processes and barriers, AND she speaks in a way that resonates with the working class AND younger generations.
Her Among Us Twitch stream was a brilliant way to connect with her younger constituents and made her approachable.
She does the same thing Bernie does, going out to rural America and speaking with the working class voters that feel unheard and abandoned.
At Congress, she ain't fucking scared to speak truth to power.
And most important, she has demonstrated that she is impossible to buy.
This whole rhetoric that because she's a woman Americans won't vote for her:
No. Hilary is a crook and she still won the popular vote. If the electoral college wasn't a thing, she would have been president.
Kamala came in way too fucking late thanks to Biden. But even so, her policies were still pandering to corporations and the rich, although it is undeniable she would have been vastly superior to Trump which is why she got my vote.
Whether America is ready for a female president or not is not the issue.
America needs someone who will be strong against corporate interests and bring forth universal healthcare.
It's because a large portion of America is both sexist and racist. She should be a no brainer to win, but Trump should have been a no brainer to lose.
I don't understand why people are so fucking thick to not understand this. If we're so lucky to have a fair and free election in 2028, we can't risk global stability to prove the DNC wrong by relying on a notoriously racist and misogynistic population of voters to choose a female person of color. Despite being one of the most qualified and intelligent members of congress, an AOC ticket is doomed to fail by her demonization by mainstream media and social media manipulation and propaganda.
This kind of electability politics is exactly what gets us one feckless candidate after another. We're too scared to support all we actually believe in, and we end up with candidates that can't rally popular support.
Listen to the fucking poll results. Good god. Joe Biden was even more milquetoast than Harris and he garnered 9 million more votes. Harris is left of Biden. That's a fact. So the only reasonable explanation is that either Harris didn't have enough campaign time (I think a few months is plenty) or older voting Americans don't want to vote for a woman/POC.
By your logic, since she's more left leaning than Joe, she should have been able to garner more popular support but that didn't happen. 16+ years down the road if Dems can hold the office for that long AND have shored up protections for social programs AND removed blanket immunity from the executive branch, I have absolutely no problem with AOC. But until they're able to gain a more stable foothold in the current political climate, you're just going prematurely kill their one shot at a presidential run. That's all you typically get is one chance. If Trump loses in 2016, he doesn't come back in 20 and 24.
Limiting all women because the party wants to shut out one woman. Democrats smeared Sanders for allegedly saying what you just said.
Yeah it sucks but it's the truth. I live by Chicago and a shocking amount of people I interact with drop racist or misogynistic comments without a thought around me because I'm a white guy.
Most comments I've heard about AOC are either who or that she's dumb. I've asked two people why she's dumb and they couldn't give me a solid reason.
Anyway I guess my point is anecdotally this lines up with a lot of interactions I've had in the last few years
its the same answers they gave about harris: "i dont like her, she is not smart, or discussed her policies. its pure sexism." from poc R voters
We can't pander to the worst of us.
You'd be shocked at how well people respond to someone genuine like AOC, especially because voters on all sides recognize her name and her spirit, especially because she makes healthcare access & relief her focus.
You have to be pragmatic, though. There's a time and place to push for progress, and this isn't either. You need to stop the house from burning down before you can renovate it.
If 2028 even happens, it'll be a fight to reclaim the country. That means the person with the best chance of winning needs to run. AOC is not that person this year.
You have to remember that the vast majority citizens aren't anywhere near as informed on anything related to politics as the people here are. This is by design thanks to mass media. You have to field a person that appeals to the most people, and a Hispanic woman doesn't do that.
It's really fucking stupid that things are this way, but people are really fucking stupid. Tim Waltz is a very likable old white man, and that's what will win an election.
The false pragmatism of timid complicity got us here.
Yes but we're not talking about someone genuine like her, we're talking about her, specifically. I would love to see her win, but she's been heavily demonized by right wing media.
"We can't pander to the worst of us." is a righteous idea, but it's not tactically wise. Elections are a popularity contest, if you don't approach them as such you will likely lose. It very obviously doesn't matter how qualified a candidate is, it all boils down to pandering to enough demographics to win.
No but it is strategically disasterous to pre-emptively hamstring your best most popular leaders skilled at inspiring people for bullshit pre-emptive handwringing about things conservatives will do to anybody no matter who it is.
I think what's been proven is that the US will not vote overwhelmingly for a DNC robo-woman candidate.
It's still America. There are people who voted for two terms of Obama and then flipped to Trump. Hell, there are some people who voted for Biden in 2020 and then Trump in 2024.
Perhaps most voters in the country have absolutely zero fixed values or do any meaningful analysis into who they are voting for. It's vibes-based and perhaps always has been.
All that said, I don't think it's been proven or disproven that the US will not vote for a woman candidate that aligns with the country's "vibes" at the moment so to speak.
The data doesn't look very good that America will vote overwhelmingly for a woman for president based upon the limited results we have so far...but they did vote to send Harris into the east wing before she had been thoroughly unmasked as a corporate drone....so that's something positive.
It easily could be that the American electorate is just way more misogynist than it is racist. 🤷 We'll never know without running a reasonably charismatic woman candidate with non-corporate drone policies though.
If recent elections should have taught you anything, it's that maturity is not a prerequisite for being president.
I think this is the classic "she'll have to work twice as hard for half as much" that the right-leaning voters will insist on to vote anyone for president who isn't a white man.
probably keeping her seat is more important than abandoning it.
It's a great idea. And I hope she does. But his seat doesn't expire isn't until 2029.
Schumer's argument is shit. They're going to go after government agencies with or without the funding bill. With the finding bill they get to choose. Without it they have to shut down everything. Passing that bill means they get more maneuvering room, not less.
And with a shutdown the Dems would get to shout about 'the GOP shutdown' for however long it lasts which would also help to galvanize the public against MAGA.
There have been government shutdowns caused by Republicans in the past and they were never blamed on the Republicans. Hell, the Republicans blamed Dems for making them do it and it stuck.
Do not assume Democrats have any ability to control the optics of a situation at all. They are feckless.
Fucking THIS. These feckless cunts couldn't even be bothered to frame it as the GOP's fault? They're going to blame you for anything bad that happens anyway, look at their track record for the past ever.
Apparently it's only "compromise" when it aligns with corporate interests. When it's about the benefit of the people, it somehow becomes "extremism".
I hope she primaries him. Vote all those decrepit elders out of office.
Unfortunately, he's not up for reelection until 2028, at which time he'd be 78 years old, so probably wouldn't be running anyway.
Is this your first time? American politicians don't give up power just because they are old. Feinstein, McConnell, Biden, Thurmond are just a few examples.
Fucking Pelosi. That dinosaur is 84 and still has her thumbspikes in every pie
(+2 points if you can name the dinosaur)
It's Iguanodon!
Is it your cake day ?
Apparently. I had to sign up on the Ides of March because Kbin was so flaky I couldn't wait until 4/20
Hope he's doing okay.
They do that because committee seats are determined by seniority, so they need to elect dinosaurs who've been there forever even if said dinosaur doesn't know where they are or what year it is.
Yeah, 78 would be waaay to old for anybody to get elected
/s
And by then all of the positive things our government used to do will have been demolished we'll all be too sick and exhausted to care anymore.
i think thats why they go scorched earth, and nothing to lose type of voting, they are trying to get as much money out of it as possible.
schumer has been a sack of shit for about as long as I can remember.
That's why I'm shocked people are shocked. It's a shame they have to do exactly what he says.
😐
and they can haul Pelosis carcass out as they go. They should prop her up at the stock exchange where she really works.
Some people get mistaken. I haven't been pushing for the dnc for 8 years because I think they are great people. I think they are very very flawed and find no reason to elaborate on that any longer. The point was always to protect my freedoms and the freedoms of others by stopping the spread of MAGA. Calling them NAZIs is a curtesy for people who aren't reading about them in history books. MAGA will suffice when all is said and done.
I'll be defiant towards MAGA until I'm dead. That's just who I am. When the polls open I'll vote repub lite if that's the group that stands a chance. The DNC don't represent me. They can try to "win my vote" but they are far from earning it.
So either way, people, you have to decide. If the DNC some how stops MAGA in it's tracks, how will you then deal with the DNC? I will die disgruntled and my only hope that there is still places where people like me can be disgruntled too.
We will NEVER make progress by compromising with those who will not compromise with us in return.
AOC needs to form a new party or at least go independent with Bernie. I'd really like an alternative to the Democrats because I'll never be voting for them again.
No. She's on a path that will shape the democrats of the future. If she leaves she will become irrelevant, and she knows it.
After this fine display by maga and the DINO's I see a schism coming from both parties.
the gop's schism of the maga, it already has occured with them, most of them had to embrace maga or risk getting primaried by trump aligned maga gop. there isnt one for the DNC yet
One thing a lot of people really struggle with is that if you see something going on you don't like in an organisation, you have to options:
I think too many people choose option 1, especially in politics. They resign and say "not in my name". However, from their opponents point of view they're now defeated. The obstacle is removed. They can now do exactly what they wanted to do, and probably go further.
The harder option is 2. Stay and fight, and probably lose multiple times, but you'll make your opponent's goals as hard as possible to achieve. You may even start winning and through your example bring others to your cause.
Start a fucking progressive party already
As far left as I am, that would guarantee the Republicans would win every election until we get ranked choice vote
That'd be a threat if the dems were actually willing to improve the country not just be controlled opposition
Honestly how I'm feeling these days. I honestly think their preferred state is not being in power, that way they don't have to keep any promises and get to keep their jobs all while doing nothing but complaining about Republicans.
Not to mention fundraising
I honestly think that both parties like to not be in power for this very reason. All the money and none of the responsibilities. Pretty sweet setup
So forever
This is what we need to be talking about as a country right now. How do we open up the political binary to include viable third parties? Does that require proportional representation? Does that require a parliamentary system?
I know in NC getting a third party on the ballot requires signatures and a portion of the vote in the previous election. Those bars are too high and risky. What is another path?
sizzling hot take: all political parties end up as tools for elites to capture power
truly a bold and newfangled idea, surely only a few radical extremists could buy into it. surely parliamentary socialists in Meiji-era Japan, for instance, would never derive this dangerous concept from first principles
If Pelosi AND AOC agree on something, no one in the party has any business disagreeing. Schumer should resign over this moronic take.
This is exactly what my first thought was. If Pelosi and AOC are agreeing on something, the other side is being really really stupid.
Theres an argument to be made that Pelosi is only agreeing because she knows that her agreement won't do anything.
schumer probably has the same megadnors as the gop, hence hes the first to cave. and the 10 dinos as well. fetterman was the obvious one.
Jefferies and Schumer need to step down. This is pathetic.
The only silver lining here is the remote possibility of progressive Democrats breaking out to form their own party. At least then the US will have a legitimate opposition party.
You realize this was your last election right? It's not going back to normal.
I guess we will see won’t we. I’m still voting in 2026 and 2028. I’m not going to be discouraged by all the nihilists on the internet that are trying to convince me I’m powerless. Maybe I’ll find that process is finished but I’m not rolling over or giving up. Hell you could be a Russian bot trying to make us feel apathetic about voting by just vaguely going … “ you guys realize it’s all over right ? Yea keep on sucking on that copium pal! 😈”
you're not powerless, far from it - but you need to exert your power before 2026 and 2028 if you want your vote to matter.
your power comes from your ability to go on strike and sabotage, not from voting
I’m definitely already doing that. Every little bit counts.
Quit sucking your own dick
Nyet
Yeah they had their last election, ever, back in November. If they ever hope to get election back, they'll need to actually fight for it instead of sitting on their butts.
When people attempt to do that Republicans win even more power. Case in point: Ralph Nader.
Our voting system has us stuck in this duopoly and it will not change without destroying the country and starting over.
Congratulations l! You’re the first person I’ve met here who understands this.
Cuck Schumer
Cloture is by no means a certainty yet: If your senator hasn't stated their position yet, there's still time to call them. With any luck, this will be the beginning of the end for Cowardly Chuck's leadership.
Edit: specifically saying "Vote no on cloture" tells them you're highly engaged and highly likely to vote.
I finally got someone on the phone at Hickenlooper's office this morning. They're saying he's now committing to voting no on cloture, which he wouldn't confirm at his town hall a couple days ago, so this is absolutely accurate. Getting engaged works people. You just gotta make sure they're more afraid of us than they are of the Oligarchs, and our advantage is numbers. Overwhelm them.
His vile cowardice is something I'm seeing people talk about, but the sheer stupidity of it isn't touched on.
CHUCK. HE IS GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU! THE D NEXT TO YOUR NAME MAY AS WELL BE THE STAR OF DAVID ON YOUR CHEST YOU DUMB FUCK! DICTATORS DO NOT LET "OPPOSITION" PARTY MEMBERS LIVE. NO MATTER HOW HELPFUL THEY WERE IN GIVING THEM POWER!
Like are you fucking stupid?
There's plenty of opposition parties in Russia, for example. They're just all controlled. They use intentional gaffs to throw the election to the "correct" winner. If they start getting too uppity and stop following orders, they get banned from running on some technicality.
Navalny is what happens when even that doesn't work, but he was very much the exception.
Democrats are currently proving that they are controlled opposition.
The naivety of the old guard feels akin to the council in Mass Effect 1 dragging their feet while Saren plows ahead unobstructed.
ME1 had more political messages in it than people realize.
Are we calling him Cuck Schumer yet?
Democrat voters are tired of compromising. MAGA thinks they want to burn the US down so they can "own the libs" ... well let's fucking do it. Let's test their theory in the laboratory of life.
About half the seated Democrats right now need to be primaried hard. How did we have a more coordinated opposition party during Trump's first term? It's worse this time around and they are showing absolutely no will to fight.
it almost always the same 10 dems.
what are you supposed to do? The congress controls the budget, literally as defined by the constitution, the executive is currently trying to pretend that isn't the law. And the supreme court doesn't exactly seem content about doing anything over it, so it's not like you can do much as the congress. You literally can't win here, we have to wait for all the lawsuits to hit for anything to begin happening.
Schumer went from "we have to be a united front" to "I'm gonna vote for what republicans want!" He pretended to hold the former position for less than a day.
So uh, not that.
unfortunately we just don't really have any good options here. Everything is fucked, nothing we do is going to unfuck it.
Well, at least enough democrats are complicit.
Hmm, yes, it's almost as if we have a government that isn't functioning and there seem to be no options that are legal under the current government...
that's definitely what direction we seem to be going in, but there is still a lot more government oversight that exists outside of this realm, and this is still a hypothetical. A not unlikely one, but still one nonetheless.
When I first met her, she was slinging margaritas at a Mexican restaurant near Union Square. It was the best part of the time between classes I had at Parsons.
Sadly, because I lived in Brooklyn, I could not vote for her, although she has been one of the greatest young progressive voices in our government in nearly a century.
Saying that “I wish her all the best” doesn’t come close. I want her to be president someday, very very soon.
Screw Schumer. If there’s one thing that might bring some people away from Trump - it’s having the government shut down for no discernible reason for an extended amount of time. Could be the last shot at doing things here the legal way
As she should.
As she should, and Every. Single. Member! Do better “America” or should I say “The illegal 1% trash”.
“Public servants cannot and will not use their public status to increase their own personal wealth”
SAID NO GOVERNMENT MEMBER EVER! They are not “for the people” they have more money than most will see and clearly they only care about themselves! Fuck ALL OF THE GOVERNMENT MEMBERS and actually clean the fucking swamp from greed and idiocracy! We deserve better!
They're not going to run a woman in 2028.
They're not going to run a progressive and will fabricate any excuse necessary.
It's already gonna be newsom.
Newsome is a slimy dirtbag, like every other current Democratic leader. And I say that after voting for Kamala. AOC and buttigiege are the only two I would vote for.
Or Buttigieg.
"Try to not be a dick in the future [Incoherent rambling about how I hate you and everything you stand for]"
I genuinely am asking this in good faith, are you doing fine mentally?
Nah :/ I'm getting better but I still struggle with not being aggressive like this.
edit there was a bunch more aggressive stuff I wrote here and on other comments, maybe I should leave them up idk. i just don't wanna gunk up the fediverse with rambling about a stupid grudge I have
newsom's headed in that direction.
But I don't want to hurt homeless and queer people. I'm not a centrist.
I saw that Schiff and Padilla opposed cloture and the GOP spending bill. Called their offices to vocalize my support.
Hopefully she will run for his seat in the future.
The Republicans need at least 7 Democrats to side with them on cloture. Schumer is just going to embarrass himself if he votes for cloture and enough Dems hold out for it to fail.
Honestly, I hope it happens. He needs to own this shit all by himself. Get fucked Chuck.
This would ultimately be the best case scenario, which is why I don't think it'll happen. I highly suspect that they'll get the votes they need to pass the CR--which is incredibly unfortunate.
Or if he's the deciding vote.
it's a lose lose, you either push the funding through, and lock in existing funding, and bypass any weird shutdown bullshit, or you push for a government shutdown where (apparently) the executive can just make up funding numbers and start moving money places.
So, take your pick:
You force the shutdown, otherwise Congress has abdicated it's role.
Somebody got to Schumer IMHO.
the megadonors did, or his banking ones did.
congress will have abdicated it's role in either position, given the precedent being set by the trump admin.
You literally cannot win, you shutdown the government, the executive can engage in whatever means it, and the supreme court deem appropriate, you pass the funding, the funding is limited, directed, and you are still technically the one who authorized it.
At least in the case that dems pass the CR, the Congress literally authorized the funding, they would be the ones legally defining where money is spent. Whereas if the government was shutdown, and trump decides he can just "take over that role" it's entirely meaningless.
I am an Independent and think both sides suck on the whole political spectrum in this country. I'm also from NY and both of my Democratic senators voted to pass this blank check to Trump and Elon.
The Democrats have gone about dealing with Trump and his disciples in Congress the completely wrong way from day one. They try to be civil and favor the traditional ways of solving things in Congress. They have basically been bringing a pink plastic toy baseball bat to a gun fight this whole time that Trump has been in office this term.
And because of that, here we were with 2 horrible choices for them. But one choice would have shown that they had enough of the B.S. and had some kind of a spine. The "right" thing for Chuckie to do was to be united and stand firm that they wouldn't approve this CR and force a shut down unless they had a say in some of the solutions in the bill. Pain was coming either way, why not go down fighting and show that you were on the right side of history?
Given the past month and a half (holy shit it feels like it's been a decade) and the track record of Elon and Trump so far, I am very afraid of what is coming in the next month and a half -- let alone when this budget fight resumes in September.
Dems need to stop pretending Schumer is the only problem, any other dem in his position would have done the same thing including AOC. The party is rotten to the core it’s just a revolving door of sycophants who server wall st and capital. The party is working as intended. Notice how Dems never have power to make actual change, never have the backbone to oppose republicans, and when they have majorities they never use their power for actual progress or at the very least codifying laws like roe v wade ect. They are there to act like an opposition party not actually be one. The working class is perpetually screwed.
I will never again take AOC or any other "squad" member seriously as long as they proudly call themselves Democrats. Go independent like Bernie or start another party. Until then, if they want to keep giving themselves the same label as Schumer or Fetterman, I'm going to lump them in the same batch of assholes and idiots.
That’s a fucking retarded hill to die on.
Its funny I have suddenly seen the leave the party thing pop up in multiple places at the exact same time.
Beginning to think it's AstroTurf to get the noise people out of the way and into 3rd party oblivion
AOC obviously didn't get the message. The Democrats have completely given up on the Kafabe of pretending to be an opposition party.
Traitors for hire.
I read Schmuck Chumer for a second
Any dem that has been in an elected position longer than 10 years is the cause of this.
That’ll show him.
I have been extremely pro-democrat and it has driven me insane how the far left ONLY ever shits on democrats when they are objectively better than republicans on every single issue. Democrats generally vote in the direction of increased taxes on the rich, more access to healthcare, better safety nets, etc. while republicans are just demons who obstruct all progress for the sake of destroying the world. But after Trumps election, watching the cowardice of the dems actually fucking disgusts me. They might as well be republicans with their lack of response. Just a fucking disgrace. Fuck Cuck Schumer. I will stop defending dems. Trumps election is the official end of both parties. Neither of those parties can be allowed to survive if the US manages to survive this.
Democrats aren't generally pro taxing the rich or deviating significantly on many issues since Clinton and the 90s. Yes, some of the squad said that they were pro-taxing the rich when they knew that there was no possibility of it being brought to a vote and the Democrats maintained a pretend opposition to the extreme violations of civil rights in the war on terror or ICE deportations. But after Obama, the most extreme and worst excesses of the war on terror were bipartisan, and after Biden all ICE and immigration policies were fully bipartisan (he continued the obviously facetious use of COVID as a terrible, contagious disease to deny asylum seekers, just as Trump did, after saying COVID was over, and continued deportations and putting immigrants in ICE concentration camps, when 4 years prior Democrats could understand that was fascist). That is why the left hates Democrats. Because the two-party system means the Democrats can absorb all opposition to the Republicans, while continuing all of their policies and claiming that wanting any movement to the left/away from fascism is only helping the Republicans. That we should just continue the Republican's policies, but it is fine because Obama is going to file the paperwork correctly to send Arabs to blacksites or Biden is going to file the paperwork correctly to do ICE deportations at a greater rate than Trump [term 1] or genocide in Gaza. The Democrats are above criticism and should be allowed to do fascist immigration policy or genocide.
Just wrong. Democrats absolutely deviate significantly. I don't even know how to push back against this, it reads like you fed an LLM exclusively lefty influencer takes.
Leave the Democratic party AOC, and enough people will follow that we can maybe actually make a difference.
Or.. hear me out.. It was a colossally terrible idea to not do this after the ratfucking of 2016. Or the ratfucking 0f 2020. Or the ratfucking of 2024. It was a colossally terrible idea to leave the clearly incapable managers of the Democratic party in place, and in lieu of replacing them, which doesn't appear possible, to identify and adopt strategies that go around them.
We've done orders of magnitude more damage to ourselves by continuing to support Democrats when Democrats do not support us, in anything other than meaningless performative bullshit.
Getting off heroine is hard. Alcoholism detox can kill you. But not dealing with either of those things isn't a solution to the problem.
The Democrats are not your freinds. They aren't even your allies. They are a tool preventing you from having access to power and to prevent us collectively from making the kinds of changes that can kill fascist movements in the crib by not allowing the legitimate conditions that permit grievance politics to persist.
By occupying the space where real change, where an authentic attempt to better the lives of people would be, Democrats are a tool to prevent the addressing of the fundamental problems we have in society. Leaving these issues unaddressed give fascists legitimate grievances to co-opt into these kinds of racist and fascist movements.
You're not arguing against Democrats, you are arguing against basic math. Here is a primer for why going third party is a complete non-starter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
The way forward is to transform the Democratic party from the inside out. It's not impossible, Trump did it to the entire Republican party in the span of less than a decade. Vote in PRIMARY elections.
Good video on the problem with system we're stuck with (the only ones who can change it are the ones who benefit from it). Another interesting related video is this one about the history of parties and once again you see that while sometimes extra party movements pop up, they always get absorbed into one of the two big ones.
It's math. Until we change how we elect, it will always be this way. And just like you mention changing the Democratic party from within, so do we have to change how we vote from the lower to the higher. Some states have started better systems, and the more than do, the more likely it can be worked into the federal level.
Yes, I agree, any kind of ranked choice voting system would help to end the two-party duopoly. If you are lucky enough to have your state consider a ballot measure to introduce such a system, do everything in your power to help it pass.
Unfortunately, it will not be easy; for obvious reasons, there are many powerful political forces opposing such reform. Here is a page showing how well such measures have done in recent elections: https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)_ballot_measures
By the way, if you liked the CGP Grey Animal Kingdom video, it continues as a short series: https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/
I mean, you don't legitimately think that we can do that in the current system do you?
Like, try and see the contradiction in your thinking.
It's not contradiction, you're talking about something different. I'm talking about First Past The Post elections vs. other systems that allow more than two parties to be competitive.
To be clear, you are repeating the same argument that has been being repeated, for effectively 25 years. This is exactly the same argument being made in the year 2000 when the Democrats rolled over on Bush V Gore.
If you want any one to take this argument seriously at this point, you need to tell me how the last 25 years of evidence showing that this approach to politics doesn't work, will work this time. Because to be clear, your exact strategy is the theory of change thats been in application. And the result was the rise of fascism globally.
Give me a reason to take this argument, thats been repeated and repeated, again and again, seriously, when the data we have shows that pushing for change from within the DNC isn't working.
Your strategy is quite literally the only strategy thats been attempted, and what we got for it was the rise of fascism. So whats different this time? Why should we take you seriously?
Okay so just keep doing the things that haven't worked in the past?
I just want to be clear what your argument is. You want the strategy to be the same thing that people have been trying to do for 25 years?
Republicans voted out their corporate overlords for fascists and racists.
Democrats failed to do so. Now the Democrats can't win an election to save their life.
🤔
As someone that never trusted either party, this is the one way to get my vote.
The Dems are 80% dusty skeletons desperate to simply stay in office. They don't do a single thing in the interest of the people, otherwise this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. F them and F the GOP twice as hard. They are very much also a part of how we all ended up here.
Most Americans are so deeply fed up with both parties, that they just tune the fuck out. Republicans are evil and Democrats are feckless. Americans have been starved for any kind of meaningful change since the year 2000. The whiplash politics we currently all are living through is a direct consequence of that.
Americans wanted significant change from the status quo, so they went away from Clintonism to Bush. Then they wanted significant change (hope and change, remember that?) so they went Obama. Then they wanted significant change so they went Trump. Then again, wanted significant change, and they went Biden. And yet again, whiplash, and we get Trump.
Americans are desperate for change and have no way to express that through the currently available options.
Oh no, I'm asking apathetic voters to be so apathetic that brands no longer matter either.
I would go into the game theory and political theory of this, but I fear you wouldn't understand that either.
It's OK, if it happens, things would be so beyond fucked to get us to that point that it's less of a "third party" and more of a "survivors" scenario.
It's actually an incredibly based idea, but the public is too stupid to recognize it.
You're right about the public, but that also means there is no hope and no one should care or try.
If the people will only vote neoliberal or fascist, theres nothing to be done other than store food and water and hope you aren't noticed until complete societal collapse. There is no possible path to a decent society when both choices are fine with the poor dying to enrich their bribers.
I think after 24 years of holding my nose and voting Neoliberal, telling myself the lesser evil will somehow lead to salvation, and fighting for Sanders on 2 campaigns, I'm done participating. Harris was my last gasp of appealing to this cesspool's nonexistent sense of decency. I'm not going to endorse or signify the Neoliberals new meet in the middle low next cycle, where they call for "more humane" concentration camps as compromise. My hands are dirty enough voting for the good cop in this corpo fascist good cop/bad cop routine all this time.
George Carlin called it, the people suck so things really can't get better. We're a garbage people that largely despise the idea of an equitable society. Better collapse than perpetuating that. Not like people who only vote for which tribe to hurt deserve more.
You're saying something to the left of what we have, a neoliberal party save a literal handful of spoilers they detest more than their fascist opposition that has proven eager to concede to fascists at every turn, and the Fascists themselves, isn't palettable to our people politically. I agreed with your point on that, It's a dark, dark reality.
If our people aren't ready for something to the left of those, and there really isn't anywhere further right to go, we're plotting military annexations and building extralegal concentration camps, where do you see this having even a slim margin to improve before collapse?
Because AOC isn't even that leftwing, she just looks like it from inside the burgeoning fourth Reich.
The only way this is true is if losing is more based than winning.
This is TDD we're talking about. One of the louder more prominent blue maga screechers. Who still hasn't realized or just doesn't care that they were made a fool of and used. That has massive dreams and whose failures are even larger than those dreams. Blasting themselves in the foot all the way down.
TDD is third party ride or die. They know that that is where it's at. They're only 7% away from breaking 10% in national elections that's so close! Only another 40 to 50% for them to win an election. That's practically nothing! Why would anyone want to reclaim the Democratic party. Use it's brand recognition and reputation with the average person build strength and coalition. It's got cooties! /S
That's the level of logic you'll get in any responses from them.
LOL yes the same here. And I see they did exactly as I predicted further down
This idea had some merit two years ago but it’s too late. And trump proved that you can take over a party if your tribe is popular enough.
The claim has been that this idea is always 2 years too late since Jesse Jackson.
Losing in shutdown game and keep doing the same again. The lack of imagination of aged DEM is worrying.
One thing you got to give Trusk some credits is he dares to put wild unpopular ideas into action, which mostly strengthened his position, not weaken it. You got to be innovative if you want to beat him, repeating old failure is not an option.
What's still not clear to me is what the plan is if the CR is not passed. Republicans control the overall agenda in Congress. What I fear would happen is Republicans would start to fund the government bit by bit, starting with the bits they like the most.
Then in 3 months, when the Department of Education and other things are still not funded, Republicans can say "See! Democrats wouldn't let us open it. It's all AOC's fault!", and the public would buy it.
If there were a clear path to a better deal by shutting down the government, I'd be all for it. Go ahead, downvote me if you want, but I'm more interested in knowing how I'm wrong about this. If your response is "we need to stop this because it's awful", that's fine, but how does stopping it lead to something better?
Voting no on this CR is not voting for a shutdown. It's voting for a different CR. Voting yes is giving up without a fight and giving Trump whatever he wants. This is the first chance since the election for the Democrats to oppose Trump through official channels, and Schumer rolled over immediately. If they do nothing now, we already have a one-party autocracy.
Appeasing fascists is a time-tested losing strategy. If the choice is between shutdown and give Trump whatever he wants, I think the answer should be clear. Trump is already speed running a federal collapse. Might as well deny him the damage he would do in the interim.
If they wanted a shutdown, they have every ability to make that happen. If a couple of House Republicans opposed it, it would have failed to pass. They didn't because people are going to blame Republicans for it (or at least were before Schumer mucked up the story).
And they can't fund it bit by but. The executive can decide how to allocate remaining funds and order some people to work without pay, but turning stuff back on for the long term takes Congress and the Republicans have a single budget vote this year that can be Republican-only.
Finally, if this was the end conclusion of The Adult In The Room, all of it was true before the House voted. This isn't the end game of a serious thinker, this is Schumer blowing up the game after his colleagues have already taken the risk of voting no across the board. He should be fired for that alone.
We can't afford slamming anymore
Wasn’t this a CR for the dem’s own spending bill..? So its the same bill the dems had right?
The same New York Democrat machine behind all the establishment Democrats put AOC there too. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
Ya'll really still think they aren't all playing on the same team, huh?
Okay, account with three comments: what do you think the point of saying this was? How did saying this make someone's day better? Explain it to me.