Spyke
lemmy.zip

Threadiverse is a terrible name, the most immediate word association is Threads, ostensibly a large corporate competitor, and the most immediate search result is a geeky/nerdy tshirt/merch company.

Better names?

Fuck uh... I dunno.

Lemmyverse

Lemmy and Friends

Reddit Asylum Seekers Club (RASCL?)

The front page of Web 4.0

Fediverse's Fractious Forums

???

20
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

A lot of people from Reddit refuse to come here due to the association with tankies, as evidenced in the name Lemmy.

Also PieFed has little to do with Lemmy, except being interoperable with it, like K/Mbin. And Sublinks will introduce newer even more complicated terminology as in "the instance formerly using Lemmy, now having switched over to Sublinks":-).

Anyway we already have both Lemmy and Fediverse, so the purpose of this third name is to represent the not-just-Lemmy portion of the Fediverse. Threadiverse is a horrible name... but the only one people seem willing to use. Forumverse?

Threads is dead, maybe we should finally just let it go? Oh, and use of Threadiverse predated that existing in any case. It's solidly our term, not theirs... if we want it.

2
lemmy.dbzer0.com

PieFed has little to do with Lemmy, except being interoperable with it,

Seems like quite a link to be honest

3
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

Oh for sure. Both having implemented the ActivityPub protocol and being interoperable on the Threadiverse/Fediverse is a huge deal.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say that PieFed works on the Lemmyverse (technically that would be true, but also the reverse as well).

PieFed is its own whole entirely separate and distinct deal from Lemmy. Unlike e.g. Beehaw that is just an instance running old Lemmy software, or Tesseract being an alternate front-end for a Lemmy back-end.

Similarly Mbin has very little to do with Lemmy in this manner of speaking as well, just interrelating on the Fediverse, but via its own entirely distinct implementation of the ActivityPub protocol there too.

2
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

But all that matters is the protocol. In time, we'll have loads of implementations and we should hope we do. More choices for everyone :)

1
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

Most end users - especially the more creative types aka "content creators" - don't seem to care how something gets done, so long as it does. Thus UX matters far more, hence why PieFed is amazing, offering such features as Categories of Communities (even customized, shareable ones!), hashtags, an onboarding wizard signing up a new account with community subscriptions and common filter options, and among many other things, one of my favorite is the ability to see the community side-bar content below every single post (imagine stumbling upon [email protected] - which yeah no longer exists, but anyway - via the All feed, and knowing what you were walking into by replying to it!).

Even so, yeah it is the protocol that makes that happen - and yet also PieFed provides a back-end that does not depend upon Lemmy. Code is code, but still some people don't like it, and tbh it does have authoritarianism baked right in deeply to its core concepts: e.g. it provides a modlog but no modmail, and even hides which mod did an action so that you cannot DM them to ask why. Lemmy is very much a true "Reddit alternative".

In contrast, PieFed provides features that allow for democratization of moderation - putting more power into the hands of the end users to control their personal experiences, thereby allowing mods to have a more hands-off approach. An example is the aforementioned filters: if someone has their own filter against posts containing words like "Trump" or "Musk", then a community mod could not remove a post that uses them, allowing people to either see or not see them in that community, as they have specified their choice to be. That's a wonderful option! But it takes a lot of effort to achieve, and PieFed provides some tools along those lines to help make that kind of vision a reality.

2
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

I think I've mentioned this before but I personally really don't like the way piefed is so opinionated. It focuses on low karma, high downvote rate, for some reason doesn't award karma for memes and I just saw that "recognition of 4chan posts" feature which is just weird. To me, there can be legit reasons for all these things and I don't think it's the job of the software to handle these. That seems very opinionated/authoritarian to me.

3

Which post is that, can you share a link? The main thing with the democratization of moderation features on PieFed is how it places tools into the hands of the users, who unlike authoritianism, can decide whatever they want to do about what they see, individually and personally.

So e.g. while lemmy.ml will ban you from communities that you've never even heard of across the entire instance if you make a comment that violates no written rules (you are supposed to somehow "just know" that the anti-bigotry rule means that you can e.g. criticize genocide done by Western nations, but not done by Russia, China, or North Korea), PieFed merely places an icon next to the username, leaving it up to the recipient to decide what it means to them. Some are quite helpful, like if an account is under 2 weeks old, that's someone who is still learning the ropes, or someone who posts often but hardly ever comments, that's likely an unregistered bot account (or a human equivalent). Admittedly the rules to define all of those are still undergoing tweaking, but I like the idea in principle. Especially if users can choose to not display the icons at all.

Speaking of, a couple other related features affect the display of comments based on a combined up and downvote measure. One of these automatically collapses the comment chain - which requires just one click to open it back up fully - and another threshold hides the controversial/unpopular comment from view entirely. I have both of these disabled entirely, but for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so. Having a tool increases choices, and it's up to them to use it properly. And it's neat that PieFed allows the expansion of choices beyond merely moderator allows or denies content, to include more complex and nuanced views.

In one sense then it's the opposite of the opinionated Lemmy, which can only remove, lock, or ban users posting content that the moderator does not like, while on PieFed the moderator can leave it up to the end user to decide its fate, with help from the community overall.

So if on Lemmy the only options are "hard", like shouting, then yeah, PieFed is opinionated but in a "soft" way, like whispering, leaving the content up but placing a label next to it - though to reiterate again, the content can be left up, which is a huge difference.

Here's another example: on every single post from certain instances, a message can be placed. For now the only instance this is used for, on the flagship instance PieFed.social, is Beehaw, which offers:

This post is hosted on beehaw.org which has higher standards of behaviour than most places. Be nice.

And that link goes to the actual words of the Beehaw admins describing themselves. Imagine if, for instance, someone were told that you were not allowed to criticize Russia, China, or North Korea, BEFORE having to find out the hard way, by posting or commenting and then being instance-banned, and even then not receiving a notification about that, so having to dig out what even happened, and then dig further to try to figure out why, etc. Lemmy is VERY authoritarian in nature - yes modlog but no modmail, or even a notification that content was removed, or being banned.

So yeah, in contrast, PieFed is "opinionated", offering those soft whispers, but that's a far cry from being so heavily a Reddit alternative that is somehow arguably even more authoritative than Reddit itself!?

Also, the Sync and Connect have many of these same features for Lemmy as well. For those who enjoy such features, PieFed has a lot to offer!:-)

2
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

Google it (not DuckDuckGo or Kagi or some such! Importantly, use actual Google on this one, bc we are talking Reddit normies here who will use that). There are multiple answers actually, and they all point to the identical association between the word Lemmy and actual tankies.

2
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

Uh... sure, that could be one of them, yeah:-).

I was gonna go more with the top Lemmy instance being lemmy.ml, which has its default set to Local rather than All, so instead of getting a broad picture of the Fediverse you see a heavy dose of BoTh SiDeS sAmE propaganda, just before election season in several countries.

But that's also just one of several:-).

3
lemm.ee

Ahhhh, I honestly just took the default in the voyager app and didn’t rlly question it at all. I also don’t quite understand how instances work yet (like I get the technical idea behind it but I rlly dont know how it works in practice). I guess I will figure it out. Also, always fun to scream at tankies CUZ THEY ARE THE WRONG KIND OF LEFTIE!

3

There are multiple communities dedicated to pointing out some of that bullshit, like ![email protected], and ofc that instance I mentioned features heavily in communities such as ![email protected] and ![email protected] due to its heavy authoritarian stance that removes content that criticizes Russia, China, or North Korea, despite there being no written rule against such.

There most definitely are real and actual leftists here, like slrpnk.net and lemmy.dbzer0.com, but the drama that tankies cause is legendary. Which in turn causes a lot of people on Reddit to steer clear of Lemmy altogether, since the lead developers are tankies, hence authoritarianism is baked right into the code, the same as Reddit, combined with a smaller user base here.

1
Beastimusreply
slrpnk.net

Dozens is at best a crowd, not even a horde, hardly an army...

2
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

True... but we tend to be dedicated zealots - see e.g. how no k- or mbinners have so far responded to this comment chain yet, while instead multiple people rising to join the PieFed wagon.

Viva La PieFed? 🤪

(In truth we are indeed tiny - for now, but we will rise!)

1

"The United Link Aggregation Alliance of the Threaded Fediverse, which includes Lemmy, PieFed, kbin, and its fork mbin"

19
lemmy.cafe

Or Tula.

Hold up, this is actually good. My mediocre joke actually spawned something decent, wtf!?

4
lemm.ee

Since a lot of the discourse is around getting back to forums and the vibe of that era, this feels pretty apt.

5
Valmondreply
lemmy.world

Except there is no fedi-forum? Or what am I missing?

1
discuss.online

I generally don't. I don't find it to be a useful grouping to reference or discuss.

Try piefed.social
Try Discuss.online
Try beehaw.org
Try programming.dev
I'm always referring to one, never the group.

12
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I wouldn't point them to Beehaw though, their segregated nature and difficult onboarding process make it less welcoming for newcomers to the Fediverse.

lemmy.blahaj.zone is a better choice for people who want LGBTQ friendly spaces.

10
ericjmoreyreply
discuss.online

I think this is a great illustration of my point. I like the culture beehaw.org has established more than what lemmy.blahaj.zone has encouraged. And I don't particularly care about "the fediverse". I care about the online communities I engage with.

Everyone is different and I make my recommendation based on what I think the person I'm making recommendations to would like most.

6

Beehaw is like college Queers. Blahaj has the vibe of older ones.

Former would also yell at me for using the word Queer. They can get used to it.

2
sh.itjust.works

Yeah, pointing people to individual instances seems to be the most effective way of getting them to try out whatever we call this place. They can learn how it works later.

5
ericjmoreyreply
discuss.online

Seems the confusion was the many people referring to Lemmy the project as Lemmy the service. And it was cleared up when the discussion moved to instance as the service and apps for the service.

2
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I think I'm getting too old to keep with modern apps. I managed the switch to bluesky but Lemmy, Thunder and Voyager might be too much for me.

2

That's the result of referring to Lemmy as a service instead of Lemmy as a project. It was cleared up when people stopped doing that.

2
lemmy.blahaj.zone

I’ve taken a liking to threadiverse, though I think it might confuse some people given Meta’s Threads and Metaverse, people might assume it’s a mix of that.

12
Valmondreply
lemmy.world

Fuck facebook for stealing the name metaverse BTW.

10
reptarreply
lemmy.world

That author is a smart dude. He really covers a huge range of stuff in his books

3

Haven't checked since a bunch of years but I read everything from him back in the day, he's truly a master.

2

they stole metaverse so lets take threads back for the collective and confuse ppl they go looking for threads and wind up here

2

Since Meta's Threads died, and anyway usage of the word Threadiverse predated its existence, I finally relented and now use Threadiverse. Or Fediverse. Forumverse kinda sounds cool too, though generally speaking nobody seems to want to use it.

1
lemmy.world

What to call this stuff...

Jokingly:
webweb, 'cause it's a web of websites.
cross-fora, 'cause they're like cross-posts but entire forums.
newsvents, 'cause a lot of the activity is venting in news post comments. 😉
memecycling centers, 'cause it's a lot of reposts of old memes/shitposts.

Realistically:
Whatever instance/site I'm directing someone to.

:::spoiler stick-in-the-mud-tangent I'd never tell someone to go to WordPress if I was telling them to go to a site built with Wordpress, that'd be silly and out of touch. It'd also be out of touch to use some jargon that means nothing to them like "threadiverse".

All the pointing to these backends as though they're platforms like the corporate platforms shows how much they've conditioned people into thinking in their terms. The major benefit to these backends is they're more open, enabling greater mobility between the instances of them/sites built with them. :::

11
lemmy.dbzer0.com

All the pointing to these backends as though they’re platforms like the corporate platforms shows how much they’ve conditioned people into thinking in their terms.

I see where you come from, but it's still a platform, a network. It's way more connected that WordPress.

Piefed, Mbin and Lemmy have back and frontends, it's not like you're connecting directly to the instance using API calls

4
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

I see where you come from, but it’s still a platform, a network.

But that network is not Lemmy or kbin or mbin or piefed. That network is activitypub, the platform is activitypub. Those backends are just what you use to connect to the network, but you could use any other implementation (just that there aren't that many right now).

1
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Just because an application supports ActivityPub doesn't mean it will be compatible.

Lemmy and Peertube are barely compatible. Interoperability between fundamentally different software could be achieved, but is not a priority

1
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

Just because an application supports ActivityPub doesn’t mean it will be compatible.

Well of course, but it could be made to be compatible!I feel like we're kind of missing out here on the threadiverse cause we can't see all those other things happening elsewhere.

1

That's... really cool actually 😎

But is it perhaps too generic?

Also that sounds like a replacement for Fediverse rather than Threadiverse/Forumverse.

Still, social.net would be a great name for a new Fediverse instance? It almost kinda is already, in discuss.online.:-)

4
OpenStarsreply
piefed.social

That's true for Lemmy, but Mbin and PieFed go far beyond what Reddit tried to do. Unless Reddit has plans to also directly show posts from X?

2

Versed rolls off the tongue. Bonus affinity from me (healthcare worker) for sounding like the benzo. ;)

5
lemmy.dbzer0.com

It is, but we're not really the same kind of platform than Mastodon or Misskey, or Pixelfed or Peertube

6
hitstunreply
fedia.io

Hold up, I kind of like "Versed".

Lemmy communities and Mbin magazines become "subversed"?

...Eh, it still needs work.

"Converse"? Dang it, a shoe company took that one.

"Fedi-converse"? "Fediversation"? Too long. Let's keep cooking... "Communiverse"?

6

To be fair, that's mostly because Lemmy is pretty small with just 50K MAUs. It feels more like a large forum than a full on social network.

If Lemmy had 1 M MAUs, I think the instance culture would be a lot less noticeable (national instances notwithstanding).

1
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

Isn't that a bit of a shame though? I mean the fact that there's so little interconnection between these platforms. I know culturally there isn't too much but also the threadiverse often doesn't federate properly or support the way the rest of the fediverse works.

1
lemmy.dbzer0.com

There are only so many features the developers can work on. I prefer them to focus on the core forum features than perfect microblogging integration

2
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

That's fair - but in a perfect world, all these platforms would connect together, right?

1

Many of them do, but they don't always render as seemingly intended, or federate at all without following certain steps that a GUI does not directly provide instructions for.

1
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Close to the "discuss" concept, and doesn't sound too bad, especially compared to the rest of the names here

2

-Fediread? And we could distinguish the others aspects of the fediverse servers: -Fediblog : Mastodon, Pleroma, etc. -Fediphoto: Pixelfed -Fedivideo: Peertube

6

I've thought the same about "link aggregator" on join-lemmy.org, even though it seems like the best two words to use to describe such platforms, it needs further explanation most of the time.

Reddit was hard to market for the same reasons, although they had a pretty good name.

6
lemmy.world

Just call it Lemmy people need a simple name and Lemmy is fun to say

6
lemmy.dbzer0.com

It's fun until people bring up that the main devs political positions are debatable https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/socialism_faq.md#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs

And I said debatable because I have no strong opinion on the matter. That would make me a lib for some people, a leftist for others, I don't really care.

What I've seen is that argument is regularly brought up by detractors of the platform, which is why I always insist on saying that Piefed and Mbin are compatible and managed by other development teams

9

If someone is putting their manifesto on GitHub you can safely just disregard everything they say as crackpot nonsense tbh

2

I was just thinking about the main criticism we get when we promote Lemmy, which is "why are there so many different URLs, names, platforms? What is Voyager, Photon, Piefed, Lemmy? Feddit.uk, lemmy.ca?"

So, in the same logic as just saying "go to https://phtn.app/ to have a look at the content and see if you like it. If you want an app, the links are on https://vger.app/settings/install", I think it could be interesting to have a global name for everything. We could even try with Photon, to be honest.

"Go to https://phtn.app/ to have a look at the content and see if you like it. If you want an app, the links are on https://phtn.app/mobile (which would redirect to the 2 Voyager links). Example of confusion some users experience: https://old.reddit.com/r/RejoinEU/comments/1ipff9z/ok_so_what_next_what_can_you_do_to_help_the_cause/me0jdxp/?context=3

2
___reply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

I'm not against a consolidated name that fully encapsulates the ActivityPubiverse, and still think that is important to driving people in. Fediverse is probably sufficient enough for the time being. But user activity begins when users can interact with it, so perhaps introducing instances as 'lemdro.id, a Lemmy platform' or something of that ilk could achieve that. That way, it's not seen as a competing standard, just an implementation of one. Then, as users become more familiar with the ecosystem, the hierarchy and segments could be learnt over time if they choose to do so.

1

‘lemdro.id, a Lemmy platform’

But then you have "feddit.online, a Piefed instance", and people would have no way to know those two work with each other

2

The Reddit-like structure of Lemmy, Mbin and I guess Piefed* make them kind of the Alaska of the Fediverse; they're not really connected to the rest of it. The other platforms without the community structures interoperate; you can comment on a Peertube video from a Pixelfed account...but that doesn't work with Lemmy and I'm not convinced I've ever interacted with Mbin.

*I just can't keep up with all the meaningless names I'm expected to remember. Hell I can't do it for people. "You know who Jim Flinnigan is?" "No I don't." "He's the freshman state congressman from Wisconsin who's proposing the controversial pecan legislation." "Oh the nut bill guy. What about him?" -1/4th of every conversation with my father, because Jim Flinnigan could be a work buddy of his, someone somewhere in Hollywood in the last 90 years, or the Wisconsin nut bill guy. "You know who Flinn Jimmigan is, right?" "No I don't." "He was Edith Head's optometrist in the 60's." On top of that, there's hardware manufacturers, the trade names for their products, commercial software apps, open source apps, a new javascript framework comes out three times a leap second...

4

I feel this so hard in life... but also this particular community does make all of these interconnections between Fediverse products a very central point.

It's true that both Mbin and PieFed have far fewer users than Lemmy, in large part bc historically they both lacked an app, yet now both have at least provisional support from some app or another, so there may be many more users of them in the future. Just search this very post for e.g. fedia.io (an Mbin instance, possibly the largest one iirc) or PieFed.social and you'll see that these other, non-Lemmy members of the Threadiverse/Forumverse/Whatever part of the Fediverse are already here.:-)

1

I like how this image combines Trinity from The Matrix with a heavy amount of Samuel Jackson from Pulp Fiction, with just a soupçon of Greta Thunberg mixed in:-).

2
lemm.ee

how about we call it
THIS.

or

/THREAD

or

fuckspez

or lemmyseedemBeans

4

I ALSO...

No, wait, what have you done!?! I can't stop it, I just can't...

CHOOSE THIS GUY'S WIFE!?

1
slrpnk.net

For some reason I've never been very drawn to the name Lemmy.

Maybe because it sounds too similar to lemon? I don't know but there's just something off about it to me...

I like some of the alternatives that have been suggested so far, but struggling to come up with my own. Here's some really dumb and nonsensical ones:

Fediflections Rippleverse Gumbofedi 🤣

3

Just call it "Lemmy".

Call Mbin, Piefed, and Friendica "Lemmy-compatible".

I thought about this for a while. Just tell the masses to try Lemmy. It's the most polished and the easiest to understand.

More techy users who want more can consider other Lemmy-compatible software. There's Mastodon-compatible software like Sharkey and Iceshrimp but we generally associate microblogs with Mastodon. So, generally associate communities with Lemmy.

1