Developer creates endless Wikipedia feed to fight algorithm addiction
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/new-wikitok-web-app-allows-infinite-tiktok-style-scroll-of-wikipedia/Open linkView original on lemmy.world1192
Comments116https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/new-wikitok-web-app-allows-infinite-tiktok-style-scroll-of-wikipedia/Open linkView original on lemmy.world
https://wikitok.vercel.app/
WikiTok
Not sure if there's an app yet, I found one on the Android store by Arakassia...
Most "apps" are just http web hooks to a regular website backend with extra tracking telemetry. So a website working as a PWA should be enough for everyone.
I hate how everything has to be a fucking app, because it doesn't need to be.
If phone OSes made it so there's less friction to save a web page as an icon on your desktop it would help to resolve that issue I think.
I think that's only partly true as companies, especially big ones, want the telemetry and control of a native app instead of just a web page
They also want the ability to make you agree to a TOS with an arbitration clause so you can't sue them when your wife dies because they screwed up her food.
Proper PWA websites save very well to phone home screens (like voyager for Lemmy!)
It's just two taps in browser to get it on home screen.
It’s so easy, even on iOS. Just tap share and add to Home Screen. It’s probably just as easy on android.
It's very easy.
Chrome let's you do "install" websites to home screen, Firefox allows saving shortcuts to home screen.
The annoying thing is that you can't save them to the app drawer (at least on vanilla android), so if you have a clean home screen you have to sacrifice that.
Yep, you're 100% right. Not sure why I thought it was high friction. I feel like I confused trying to put an icon for an image on my home screen (gym app's sign in QR code) with sending a web page to the home screen.
At least on android I was able to just add a link to the home screen in Firefox.
On android:
There's your app!
On iOS through Safari:
Tap the Share icon
Scroll down a little.
Add to Home Screen.
Profit?
I'm still scrolling. Will it ever stop?????
help me.
Seems to work fine as a PWA-esque shortcut on iOS for the time being
Uuuuuh that's not the way to fight an addiction, right? Who is this person working for, exactly?
Think of it as a methadone clinic for doomscrollers.
I may have a problem
We're here to help! We just need someone to implement doomscroll / infiniscroll into Lemmy, lol.
Honestly the fact that Lemmy doesn't have infinite scroll (on my UI, at least) has helped me a lot in terms of not wasting hours at a time on my phone
I've got news for you: basically every app I've used so far for lemmy has infinite scroll. Currently Thunder previously Sync.
Oh dear!
If methadone was also educational 🌈⭐
More like a brothel for sex addicts.
Jesus. Enough hyperbolic nonsense. Browsing Wikipedia is way healthier than doom scrolling.
And doomscrolling Wikipedia is still healthier than doomscrolling anything else.
I don’t think there’s an algorithm involved actually. Just lovely facts.
Well, there has to be some kind of algorithm. Even picking a random Wikipedia article technically is an algorithm, just not one that adapts to the user
True, but outside CS the word has come to refer to a certain brand of complex heuristics or ML inference.
An algorithm usually involves lots of complex calculations and weights. Picking a number from a pool of numbers at random is as simple as it gets.
In comsci, there are no real random numbers. They are all seeded psuedo-random number algorithms. (Unless you integrate with some third party random as a service setup)
Yes but the common interpretation of “the algorithm” is that of the social media and YouTube style one. Recommending items of interest etc but easily manipulated by bad actors.
Wiki random is about as opposite to that as possible.
The modern interpretation, sure.
And agreed, "random, you might like this" is not as random as "here is a page on red food colouring"
That's a common misconception. You can measure a lot of ambient noise and extract entropy. Like time between inputs or how long it took an HDD to seek.
Most modern PC CPUs even have dedicated hardware for generating random numbers from electrical ambient noise. I don't trust them however.
That's why I said seeded. Seeded from noise. The random number generator (function) is still an algorithm..
Right, but in the context of social media feeds, "algorithm" always refers to an algorithm for personalised content.
Think of it as taking methadone instead of heroin.
Ironically, my overly chatty doctor was ranting about how methadone is a racket and they string people along for years instead of titrating them off. He prescribes Suboxone, apparently.
"Some people just wanna watch the world learn."
This is pretty awesome. I do see the need to be able to add categories of interest. Like follow history, the arts, etc. Cool regardless.
The developer seems staunchly anti-algorithm but I feel like some sort of filter system would work well. I know nothing about development but the same level of randomosity (it’s a word don’t look it up) but for specific topics would be amazing.
;/
Algorithms themselves are fine. It’s wikipedia. I’d actually use it if it brought me to interesting pages based on a recommender algorithm.
Yeah this is just the wiki random button with a simplified TikTok gui.
Pretty much a useless site which is a shame since I was excited about it.
Just found this article that for some reason has me dying of laughter: ICBM address
That's hilarious
If you enjoy this, have a peek at The Jargon File. Classic hacker slang is something else.
Thank you for this. Very interesting read about hacker speak.
I love this. ICBM address is a very clever joke.
Would be cool if the official Wikipedia mobile app integrated this functionality! It does have a 'random articles' card, but it's nothing like this.
Not sure 'addiction' is being defeated here, though 😆 Like if I'm addicted to sausages, giving me bacon instead isn't really solving the root of the issue. The issue being those sexy, sexy pigs.
The addiction isn't being defeated, it's just being redirected from something worthless to something useful. Well, at least less useless.
Saw this posted in a ADHD com a few days back. Every comment was just like "oh no...". I opened it and like 20 minutes later realized, oh no. I can and have spent many entire days just reading Wikipedia and following linked subjects. So much so I run out in areas. I can't handle a lot of visual and audio stimulation, short form content is such a nightmare for me, can't watch it. But give me pages of the most dense info and I'm hooked. I just need the option to download every paper referenced from every Wikipedia page I visit.
That's actually really cool. I like that the dev has expressed that he doesn't want to make the algorithm addictive and just keep it random 😅
Does it fight algorithm addiction or does it just utilise existing algorithm addiction to give you something slightly more informative?
I would disagree on the "slightly more informative" part. I have used it and in my opinion, it's "highly informative and educational".
It's like what vaping is to nicotine addiction.
Better than the alternative, buttt
Butt nicotine? What kind of weird stuff you into?
I think it's more "Butt as an alternative to algorithms" which I fully agree with. Butts are better than algorithms
Depends on the butt, I've seen some nice algorithms.
Blowimg smoke up people's asses, duh! /s
Apparently it doesn't use a personalised algorithm. So I'd say the first one.
Web 1.0 cures web 2.0 again.
Everyday I read wikipedia and everyday, I learn something new. Fucking love this free resource
As someone who loved the random article feature and will sometimes peruse Wikipedia at random, this is extremely fascinating to me.
WikiTok > TikTok
I know it needs to maintain the Wiki name for branding purposes, but WikTok meshes better.
Alternatively WikiToko would be cute
Wiki-Tikki-Tavi
I see the dev don't want recommendation algorithm. All good to avoid the recommendation bubble, but a category/tags might be nice instead of random everything.
My God my general but shallow knowledge of many things will grow more powerful
This should be gamified. Use an LLM to generate a mini-quiz on the topic to make sure I read it. Give me points for acquiring new useless knowledge, and let me compete with my friends and family.
I like this idea.
I don’t know if I will do anything with it, but I would like to create something like this. Find it hard to develop when I’m not in work, as it feels like work.
Do it!
This is awesome. :3
Wikipedia already has a "random article" function. I guess the tiktok ui is nice for some folks.
I too find this such a nice refreshing take on wikipedia. It’s only been a few days, hope the developer improves it further. I realize some kind of recommendation algorithm opens a pandora’s box, but one can dream
One big thing i hope they add is sorting by topic, so i can have a biology feed, a physics feed...
they have this already, at least on the app version
I want this, but with high quality news sources. And then sort such that topics are distributed.
If someone made this for TV Tropes, I would never get anything productive done again
I'm imagining one of those that feeds you random tvtropes instead
I've downloaded the app and left a five star rating. The app works great! Please show support to this developer ❤️
I just installed it and was immediately annoyed by the auto-scrolling feature being turned on by default. Is that really how TikTok works? How does anyone put up with this shit?
It’s not. You have to enable autoscrolling on TikTok.
Not sure but i support them for trying. Maybe leave a review and ask the dev to change it.
What app? Isnt just browser bsed?
It's app based. I found it on Google Play.
I can feel my butthole unclenching already 🥲
Just got the app it's absolutely fantastic.
what is the likelihood of it having this or this(Go to Animals section)
You are a Sadist Lmfao
I recall people in the past spending their day reading random Wikipedia trivia. Overal the knowledge is rather useless.
Useless? Knowledge for its own sake is worth pursuing.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
Is it though?
Depends on what you're into, what you do, etc... Could be the difference between winning Final Jeopardy and not. Or being able to identify Alessandro Gazzi by name in a police lineup, for example.
I mean you can just swipe if it’s not your jam. I think this is a great idea.
Still better than endless tiktiok scroll, me thinks
Due to shitty company pokicies where I worked, I once had a 6 month stint of reading Wikipedia 4-6 hours a day out of boredom and fuck yeah did I learn a lot of bew things. Sure, not everything sticks, but it's enough
Useless knowledge is still better than tiktok https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/07067437221082854
Information > misinformation
Maybe, but you will win more pub quizzes and it's better than brainrot content
As opposed to spending the day reading social media where the knowledge is useful?
Because Tiktok is so much better.
Sadly the design is pretty bad on desktop monitors.
Having a real grand time adding a song from any musician I hit to a play list. I fucking love Awaz now.
Does it have an algorithm of some kind?
I usually hate them but for something safe like wikipedia i would love to have it tailored to my interests.
Apparently not:
I understand their stance but it is a bit sad because if i could tailor it to my interests i absolutely would use it all the time.
Wikipedia is massive there is way more that i don't want to read then there is that i do.
Personally i think there is roam for a “not insane, Fully transparent and user controlled” algorithm but also that would take a lot of developer effort.
Are you asking if the app made specifically without an algorithm has an algorithm?
Its not presented as being specifically made without.
There is plenty of room for more ethical algorithms and to get technical. It definitely does have a algorithm.
A very basic formula that simulates randomness to pick one Wikipedia page after the other.
I just wish i could customize that to my interests. So for example it favors articles tagged as ancient mythology and minimizes politicians from the 90s
Its not presented as being specifically made without? Wat
Ill just repeat that last line again for you:
The code is on github, go for it.
Also, read the article for once. Jesus.
There is no need to communicate like this. I actually had already learned about this app and checked it out yesterday on a different community with way less people and there was no article there. I just saw the opportunity of this post as way to discuss it.
I like to make a few things clear that seem to cause confusion.
I made my post in full understanding that it probably does not feature a "preference based algorithm", trying it out did not gave it the impression it did. But i want to be more sure there is nothing along those lines included and tried to engage in discussion about the need for preferential settings. Its somewhere between a genuine and rhetoric question.
Call me pedantric, trough i prefer autistic but "algoritm" has like i explained a specific meaning to me. Its mathematical formula for a specific purpose. The app in question is code, code is math. Randomizing code (which are never truly random btw) uses an algorithm. You can not tell me that the app uses NO algorithm, well oc you can but to my brain that does not compute. Any form of customizing the feed, even a hack, would be algorithmic in nature.
I disagree this (and many things) require a full fledged article, just a clear few line description or like including those quotes you put up here would do for me. I know the internet likes to make everything into "news" but i don’t have to like or partake in that. I prefer to spend my time engaging on lemmy about the topic directly because that (this diverted discussion included) helps it grow.
I don't get it, it's pretty lame. Just a list of articles. This would need some kind of flow. Maybe one that is continued depending on what topic one reads. Something. I think, I'll try to make this ...
also needs a way to integrate ads too, oh and dont forget, AI AI AI AI AI
It was built with AI, so articles will scream about it being a triumph of whatever engine made it.
...so.... content filters when? Let me limit it to certain subjects and I don't need social media anymore 😂