Compare american vs japanese craftsmen-cars
Comparison left vs right for a craftsman who doesnt know which one he should buy:
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l/r same bed size
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r lower bed for way easier loading/unloading
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r less likely to crash
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r less fuel consumption and costs
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r less expensive to repair
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r easy to park
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r easy to get around in narrow places like crowded construction sites or towns
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r not participating in road arms race
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l You get taken serious by your fellow carbrained americans because ""trucks"" are normalized and small handy cars are ridiculed.
So unless you are a fragile piece of human, choose the right one.
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I agree with the sentiment of this post, but to be fair, you can also carry 3 or 4 passengers in the left vehicle, as opposed to only one in the right.
The main problem is the US fuel economy regulations actually encourage manufacturers to build bigger trucks and SUVs so they get classified into a category that has looser fuel economy requirements.
The extended cab version of the right truck would still tick all the boxes.
Off-road and towing capacity are probably the main feature you give up with that sort of design. Whether or not most people need that is a separate story.
They make kei trucks in 4x4, but you do lose ground clearance.
That being said, what kind of "off road" conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?
Muddy fields when parking at church or boy scouts or whatever.
Whats best is the kei 4x4 is probably significantly better in most off road situations due to its lighter weight and shorter wheel base. You can drive/manuever around things easier and when you are on mud or sand, the lighter weight prevents sinking.
Probably all of the conditions, considering how many of those trucks there are, but it would be fun to see an off-road shootout between the two.
Sounds like a job for Donut Media.
You are right. Still the american truck is hugely oversized, even for 5 persons and cargo. But, for the sake of the argument, imagine standing on the highway. Have a gander at the cars around you. How many people per car do you see? Exactly, 90% of the time there is exactly one person in a car. What makes the american truck an extreme waste of space an ressources, beside being a health hazard to everyone outside of the car.
Cars should get smaller, not bigger.
You're mostly right. The main problem is that manufacturers chose to ignore the spirit of the US CAFE fuel economy regulations, and instead build everything bigger and bigger. That's why quarter-ton trucks grew to the size of the F150 in the year 2000 when they were quite a bit smaller before.
It's not the fault of the regulation. It is the fault of the manufacturers and to an equal extent, of consumers for preferring gigantic vehicles.
And let's not let GM off the hook for the 1990s Suburban, which began to, quite literally, dominate the roads. Those fuckers were the original huge grocery getter, and they had truly awful turning radius and blind spots. You just couldn't drive them safely or courteously if you tried. So of course everyone wanted more powerful and bigger vehicles to compete.
I'm actually going to fault regulations on this one. The EPA bases fuel economy requirements on the wheelbase of the vehicle. They used to publish a range of values based every other year or so, but then changed it to a formula. The formula is non-linear, making it neigh impossible to build anything with a small wheelbase anymore. In theory, they could design a small hybrid truck, but would need an obnoxiously long bed to compensate.
I watched a YouTube video on it not terribly long ago, and iirc, a 95 Ford Ranger, if held to the current formula-based regulations, would need 60+ mpg to be produced without major penalties to the company.
The EPA either needs to reevaluate the formula, or start manually publishing the numbers with values that are actually achievable by the industry at scale. Basically, by publishing the formula, manufacturers are able to min-max their designs in all the wrong ways.
EDIT: Updated for clarity and fixed some typos
Really, the fault of the regulations is that the penalties for the number of vehicles in the heavy polluting category weren't nearly stiff enough. That's a big part of why the automakers went the opposite direction and just made bigger and heavier vehicles - they could.
Thanks for pointing our the real incentives which are always some bullshit about more money and less regulations - basically the reason capitalism sucks at innovation - it doesn't care about whats important and in some cases actively hates it
What's important for you specifically is not what is important to the customer base writ large.
You have problems with fellow consumers that you blame on manufacturers.
Capitalism does not follow the desires of consumers, it follows the desire of shareholders.
This is the most braindead comment I've read in a long time.
That doesn't even make sense in the logic you've presented. Shareholders want to maximize value, which means selling more things to consumers, which means selling things consumers want.
If your entire worldview falls apart at the slightest scrutiny, it may be time to re-evaluate said worldview.
When you consider that marketing is intended to manipulate consumers into thinking they want your product, it's more about convincing people that your product has value, and that they need it, rather than selling something that consumers actually need.
You are not the arbiter on what people "need," and people do not only purchase or consume things based on "need." As a hilariously easy example, neither of us "needs" to be here right now having this conversation.
Again, it's time to re-evaluate the entire worldview
I never claimed to be the arbiter of what people need, but im just saying consumers dont have as much freewill as they claim when they're actively being manipulated at every corner. Marketing is literally intended to make you feel like you need a product you didn't previously want.
Look up manufactured scarcity. Great way to make money for shareholders without providing more to consumers. You charge them more for less. Notice any of that recently? Notice any record breaking profits in any industries? Notice any shortages of important things like IDK ... housing?!?!
I'll also give you another example of capitalists not giving a fuck about what consumers want: electric cars back in the 1990s. The auto manufacturers realized they would lose their parts and repair businesses, as electric vehicles have fewer moving parts, the oil companies got pissed, so they put some power together and used the federal government to overturn californias electric car act that consumers voted for. The also forcefully recalled electric cars from consumers and crushed them. They did not care if there was demand if they could make more money in the short term by staying the same.
Hell, the very existence of exxon mobile disproves your ideas that companies will innovate in response to demand because they spent their money lying to the public about climate change so they could avoid any innovation at all for as long as possible. So WTF do you mean they care about demand?
Your logic that capitalists only do what consumers want is whats basic and flawed. If thats true, WTF is advertising? You think it's just a fun hobby that doesn't work? If advertising doesn't create false demand, why do it? We have evidence advertising creates demand, therefore advertising works, therefore you need to adjust your worldview to allow for the fact that some amount of the shit that consumers buy is nothing more than light brainwashing. Including you dear.
The difference is that efficient demand incentivizes h switchover. You're blaming businesses for... Not leading with changes their customers don't want
I guess I shouldn't have tried to talk about several concepts at once since your brain skipped past the manufactured scarcity concept, which is far more integral to capitalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_scarcity
Note that capitalists have been practicing the art of 'just burn the shit I can't sell so no one can have it' since the Dutch East India company burned islands full of spices to make them rarer. O such innovation
Given the usage patterns, most people in the US do not need large trucks. They have been convinced that need them because the auto manufacturers make a lot of money selling trucks.
That's why the compact trucks are selling like hot cakes. People want trucks, but they don't necessarily want these behemoths. I love my Santa Cruz.
Even compact trucks are not nearly as small as light trucks from a couple decades ago before regulations encouraged manufacturers to go bigger to avoid penalties.
Basically if you have two trucks with the same engine, but on a smaller wheelbase, the smaller one might be penalized for not being fuel efficient enough while the larger one isn't. Might as well go big to avoid the cost.
I thought it was very disingenuous of OP to not mention crew capacity between the two trucks at all. I'd assume the bigger truck also has a better towing capacity which may be required. What isn't required is buying one of these trucks to get groceries and replace your tv every 3 years while commuting to your desk job 1 hour away.
But what about cargo capacity? The beds look pretty much the same size, although I’m sure allowed weight is drastically different
The main post claims the beds are the same size. Technically speaking in terms of volume the kei truck wins due to lower bed height (if we are using max height to pass bridges as our standard). As for weight I'm pretty sure the left truck wins out on total capacity. That said the kei truck is still a remarkably useful minitruck and i wish they had a bigger market in the west.
Thats why we always had larger and smaller versions of trucks.
99% of trucks don't NEED 3-4 passengers. Same with SUVs. Most are just used to commute back and forth to work.
Half ton trucks should have remained small, while the 1 ton ones should be closer to what the half-ton are sized today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series#/media/File:1953_F100_Diagram.jpg
Look at the original F-100 for a good example. The old Rangers are also what most trucks should look like. Only the people that really use them should be driving these massive trucks around. I honestly hope gas prices spike massively because it's going to hit idiots that drive this shit the worst.
The name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site, now 80% of tradesman don’t have a whole crew of labourers so the point is still there.
I would bet the standard seating for the left truck is five, but you could easily cram six in. Unless the front row is connected, then it would be even more.
There name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site
Can't tow a boat an RV or trailer with the Japanese vehicle. All things Americans do for fun. For work? The Japanese vehicle can't haul 6,000 lbs of lumbar or steel, nor can it pull another vehicle out of a ditch.
The left one looks a little too expensive to actually haul with. If you needed to move that much wouldn't something like an Isuzu Grafter make more sense?
If you tow things wouldn't a van or any 4x4/high powered car be a better choice?
Just gonna keep on posting this
To anyone claiming that the bigger one is the safer one ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/what-drove-japan-s-remarkable-traffic-safety-turnaround
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-the-most-car-accidents
From the Bloomberg & NLM articles
At first, I was going to criticize the collision speed of the example study, but found ( ok, I say found, I mean I googled for 15 seconds ) that the average American collision is occurring at less than 40mph, so good to go there.
Second, I was going to comment on the relative safety of being in the Kei truck and being struck by the 2500HD... but that just goes back to the 'participating in the arms race', so feels... stupid.
So, overall: Thanks for providing this. It directly answers the primary concern of 'what if I hit something tho'. There are some other angles I could nitpick on maybe, but they all feel like a kind of 'consolation prize' to the argument.
One thing you also need to remember, is that the smaller car has a far smaller braking distance and is more maneuverable, so is less likely to get in a crash. The lower centre of gravity also decreases the likelihood of a roll-over.
Reminds me of a friend some years back. She was 4' nothing but insisted on driving a large SUV as it was "safer" in a accident. I'm taller than most but I prefer smaller vehicles like older Cherokees and Volvos so it's quite the odd difference.
95% of the craftsmen I know have panel vans. Easier to both organize and secure tools and materials, more overall room.
I lived in (and now commute through) a neighborhood of older houses, and higher incomes, so I see a lot of contractor vehicles. It seems like it breaks down as landscapers and lawn services use the pickup trucks; trades companies (plumbers, electricians, HVAC, carpenters, painters, etc.) use vans or box trucks; and the independent guys tend to use Dodge Caravans. Nearby, the university uses fleets of kei trucks (the low-speed versions because "freedom"), Ford Model E vans, and Caravans. I think the landscaping crew has pickups.
There are an increasing number of company pickup trucks, but most of them appear to be pavement princesses, used only for their usual function: transporting egos, not equipment.
Landscaping crews tend to pull trailers though. I imagine that's why.
It's also residential. On big commercial and industrial construction sites it's almost all big but fully functional trucks for exactly the reason you mention; they have to be able to haul trailers and heavy equipment --like generators, water buffalos, sand-blasters and the like-- over unpaved rubble or dirt.
But those are almost all company vehicles in any case.
Ours are utes. Either road versions or 4×4 versions. American trucks sell here but they're seen as a joke in both capability and practicality, so it's assumed the owner is very insecure about something or not very intelligent. As a result, they're very rare.
Until you have an odd size item like a door in frame. Or need to move something like a 1 man post lift. And since you know you won't be cleaning it out as often so your always going to have extra crap your hauling for no reason. I'm just going off every pro that has shown up for work at my job sites in a van.
I had a 1 ton Ford van for 12 years and I could haul a pallet of flooring or 20 sheets of drywall inside it, as well as lumber 12 feet or shorter. Anything more bulky than what fits inside a van like that would have difficulty fitting inside a 6.5 foot truck bed without a rats nest of ratchet straps and hanging way over the tailgate.
You have the right of it. If it won't fit in the van, you hook up a trailer. The cost of the van and trailer combined is still a sight less than these living rooms on wheels.
Aren't the vans we're discussing here just as big (or even bigger if you consider the height) as the truck? It's a truck frame with a big enclosed box on top
Yes, but full-size vans aren't a popular vehicle outside of passenger and tradesmen applications, unlike pickup trucks. I was only pointing out that North Americans apparently prefer to have a passenger vehicle where 40-50% of the wheelbase is unused useless space.
Some are, and yet they still have better visibility and lower center of gravity and fuel economy etc.
Trucks seem to be optimized for niche use but somehow managed to end up being the default for all kinds of uses where other vehicles would be better.
Since Americans are obese, it makes sense that their cars are too.
I was looking for the "America bad" comment, was not disappointed. At least that carried over from reddit.
They are absolutely the driver in this market, like it or not.
American cars were big way before they became obese. Americans have been more suburban and roads were developed before a lot of towns were, so roads are wide and big.
I love small cars. I’m happy to live somewhere with small roads. And I care deeply about living in a walkable city, but obesity is not the reason the US has big cars and the UK has small cars. Similar obesity rate. Different roads. Different fuel costs.
That obesity is quite common in the U.S. is true. Source.
Obesity rates in the UK are not far behind the US. 32% vs 38% according to WHO. Unfortunately most western developed counties are well on the path to where America is regarding obesity. The key difference in terms of car sizes is size of roads, civil planning, gas prices, and marketing. Not obesity.
I was looking for the "America bad" comment comment, was not disappointed. At least our fragile egos carried over from Reddit.
Jesus, you people can't stop yourselves lol. I love it.
I was the only guy at the marina showing up in a compact Nissan. Got a lot of shit for it from the raised up pickups.
Yet I always had that extra $20 for beers.
It's a mystery.
And if they said "yet I always had extra money for video games", would you have assumed they were playing games while driving? Would "extra money for a bathroom remodel" translate into them doing the actual renovations in the passenger seat while driving?
Imagine making the assumption that just because they can afford to drink, they obviously did it while/before driving.
You appear to be German speaking. That is not what my comment meant: the beer was purchased on the way home and consumed in my home. We would often cross paths at the nearest gas station to the marina where I'd buy a case and they'd only be able to fill their tanks.
Okay I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. My mistake, clearly. I have no business being cordial given your apparent anger on this subject. So: argue into the ether over an anecdotal memory I have about having a vehicle with fuel economy that saved me money.
Imagine thinking a straw man argument matters…
They didn’t say anything about drinking and driving, why do you think it’s okay to assume it?
Yep. I'm an American tradesman and the trucks that the guys drive are way too beefy for what they actually do.
I've gotten by with small Toyota trucks, and rav 4s..much to the chagrin of the good old boys. Should have seen their face when I rolled up in a prius...till I tell em I get 50 mpg easy.
I would love a small little truck like this one in the photo.
The most handy truck I had doing construction when I was a kid was out Mazda B2200 with the Perkins diesel. It'd go forever on no fuel and was perfect for grabbing a few tools for a quick run to a job site.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/cc-outtake/cc-outtake-1983-mazda-b2200-diesel-a-veteran-of-the-great-diesel-boom-with-a-license-built-perkins-engine/
Also spent a lot of time in the industry (drywall, lath, and plaster). Key cars top out somewhere around 750 pounds of capacity, and I could early blow through that with brining materials to a job site, or hauling stuff to the dump.
Key cars are cool, but you also need other solutions in place for materials delivery and hauling. American trucks are kind of a one size fits all approach to construction. Your truck for heavy hauling is also the truck you use for light hauling.
Most Kei trucks do top out around 750lbs, but I know for a fact that there are models of Honda Acty that have a rated bed load around 1500lbs and a rated towing capacity around 2200lbs
TIL. That’s pretty cool.
Although the payload capacity of an American truck is often double that. It’s pretty easy to hit 1500lbs with 10 bags of cement, a person, and some gear. I’m assuming Japan has other solutions for hauling that are pretty common. I’m guessing there are some pretty big differences in their construction workflows and logistics that make key cars practical.
IMHO, contractor’s work trucks aren’t the problem is the US. The bigger problem is that most of those vehicles are sold to private citizens who think the space is convenient for an occasional camping trip or an epic Costco run.
I don't know about Japan but here in Europe I just see tradesmen, needing large quantities, getting their materials delivered on a pallet from a semi-trailer.
Most use vans though for carrying their equipment, since you usually don't want your gear sitting outside, like it would on a pickup truck.
Yea for sure. I'm not in a line of business where I need to he hauling stuff like that anymore. I mostly stick to the finish work these days. So I can get by w a car. If I were say a plumber or doing gutters or whatever, I could see how it's reasonable to have say a box truck etc.
Most tradesmen I know haul a trailer with their tools and supplies so that they have the option of unhooking and leaving all that weight behind without unloading the truck. Or, conversely, unhooking at the jobsite so that their workers can keep going while they run for supplies.
You can get one. They get imported. Search for Japanese car imports to your local area. Search for Kei Truck and you'll find em. You can get an awd turbo diesel for around 8-10k
Yea I never actually looked into it, i alwats figured the import would be expensive. Right now my situation is a little...um..fkd up.. but when I have enough to invest in another vehicle, i will def consider it. I would love one. And would be perfect for my uses. I'm sure I'd get labeled a humorous title by the lovely gentlemen on the job sites. I live in a rural area. And the boys love their big trucks. And guns. And a whole manner of things.
people bring them in all the time. I live in Portland and there's a guy in town who imports them and fixes them up (@vanlifenorthwest). They've gotten popular tho and aren't the bargains that they once were
A friend of mine bought one; essentially once a car is a classic or something like 25 years old they're not subjected to the same regulations that newer cars have to meet. Since car culture in Japan is very different than here in the states a lot have lived their lives in garages and have really low miles and if you know what model to get, parts are still readily available. The only issue is driving a right hand drive vehicle in this country takes some getting used to. I drove his for a couple of days and right hand turns in particular feel sketchy
Yea the antique vehicle code or whatever. There's no emissions inspection where I live anyway lol. I wonder how these trucks are in the snow. I lived in Portland for 6 months and it snowed once barely.. but where I'm at now, we get swamped ftmp. I highly doubt there is anyone around here importing these vehicles...maybe in the city though. I'll have to research. Thanks for the info. Totally forgot about the driver side thing lol.
Willing to bet right is owned by a true worker doing real work and left is some trumpet who uses that ugly tank to drive to Walmart to buy toilet paper.
Based on what I have seen at construction sites in Asia and the US you are correct.
Most construction workers don't actually need to move all that much stuff so they tend towards regular vehicles or at most vans or small pickups. Raw material is delivered on semis. Every time I have known someone who owns a vehicle like that they could manage with a sedan. When I go out to a site my gear weights about as much as I do and it's with two techs in an economy car.
Best example was one place I was at had these fake union jobs. One guy's whole job was to babysit a machine. He drove one of those. Lazy mofo. Never packed lunch, wouldn't sweep up his "workspace", his entire day was on his phone.
One of the electricians in my town has a minivan and I've seen him use it to bring an entire 5x14 enclosed trailer full of gear to a jobsite a few times.
I am trying to think and the only construction worker I have ever known to have one of those oversized trucks was a welder. So about 1 out of like a 100. And it was constantly having issues.
Most of them have those job trailers you described when they need to move and secure a bunch of stuff at site. Safer anyway for an electrician since they got those wire spools.
The electrician I'm talking about also has a work area in the front (side closest to the vehicle) which has a workbench and a charging port for a laptop. Actually works very well for him because he can unbox panel and meter boxes and prep them right there without having to make a mess in a client's house. Probably better than an oversized truck.
I also like the idea of trailers because if you haul something which breaks or damages the trailer, it's probably cheaper to fix/replace the trailer than a truck. Maybe just me though.
This is why I loved my Nissan d21 when I had it
This is a simillar truck compared to what I had
Why isn't that an option anymore‽ I'd absolutely love my 94 Ford ranger again, and I'm totes jelly of the old school Tacoma owners.
Yeah everyone I know would love a nice small ranger or Tacoma but everything is giant now
Brooo I'm jelly of the old school Toyota truck owners. From before it was called the Tacoma
The Ford Maverick scratches that old Ranger itch pretty well. I've had one for about a year and love it.
I heard the markup on those were crazy due to demand. Did you get a decent deal?
Yeah I ordered from Ford directly, no dealer markup.
The emissions laws are terribly written. Combined with safety laws, makes going bigger the sensible option. And to the average buyer, go a little bigger than you absolutely need is definitely something to think about.
I had a '95 ranger for 15 years. Little 4-banger that I beat the shit out of, and moved half way across the country (and back, fuck Missouri!) in. Now I have a '12 Ranger. Similar in size, maybe a ltitle bigger. But they don't sell them anymore in this size. I'm not sure what I'll get next. I like the small pickups, but I wouldn't want to try to drive the little one in the picture on the local freeways.
A friend died in a Ford Ranger. They literally have no crumple zone.
I like those old school trucks. Perfect size. No over the top gaudy BS. Just simple and utilitarian.
Trucks the same size as the right one are the norm in East Asia. Trucks like the left one are basically non-existent. (There are trucks of the same size or bigger here, but they don't waste so much space on the passenger seats.)
We only have large trucks in the USA due to CAFE restrictions. Basically in order to sell a small truck in the USA , it has to have phenomenal gas mileage or the manufacturer has to pay the government fees.
The government is the cause for these stupid large trucks.
There was also a lot of targeted ads that destroyed masculinity if you owned a car. Truck companies were claiming a truck made you more handsome, resourceful, trustworthy and all sorts of other claims that somehow made you a better person for owning a truck.
It's easy to fix, just apply CAFE also to those pickup trucks. Today it's just applied to regular cars
It sounds easy to fix, but reality is the automotive and oil industries have lobbied (bribed) politicians to never do that.
I'd never heard of CAFE fees before;
I think this is the specific bit that you are referencing;
Interesting also;
Which is funny because the opposite law in Japan is what resulted in the tiny truck on the right. They have a class of cars, Kei cars, that are small and very economical. So if a car was too big and wasn't efficient enough they'd have to pay fees... so they went tiny.
This was the actual purpose of CAFE laws, but lobbying from the auto industry carved out exceptions for "light trucks" (meaning not-semi trucks). This exception is also why SUVs, classified as light trucks, have largely replaced wagons.
Thanks so much for pointing out the CAFE restrictions. I never knew they existed, and it explains much about the growth of autos in general since 2011.
The kei trucks are also illegal to import in to the U.S., if they're less than 25 years old. "Land of the free," folks.
Kei trucks due have the issue of not being great to actual haul things in the mountainous areas (a tradeoff of the small engine). They make a non-kei version that has a bigger engine for situations like that.
That being said, I think if roads and such were bigger here (Japan), we'd definitely seem more American-style vehicles. Miyazaki (Ghibli) had lots of environmental themes in his works and it wasn't because people were doing a great job of taking care of the environment. I have seen American trucks driving around Tokyo (which is silly because they can't even fit down some streets) as well as sports cars and even hummers. Yeah, some are driven by foreigners, but there are still plenty of Japanese who import and drive US vehicles. The second biggest thing stopping that is the cost of getting it over here, inspected, registered, etc. Some humans just want those and want to show off their status and Japanese people are just people, after all (as much as the internet loves to pretend otherwise).
I get the point your trying to prove but i don’t think it’s fair to compare these 2 as they are meant for different things and also brings in the assumption that all American craftsman vehicles are 2500HD’s, which is not true.
Now I agree, people using the one on the left specifically as a daily driver is actually overkill and are not using it for what it’s supposed to be used for. The one on the left is a 2500HD. They are SUPPOSED to be used for hauling and carrying equipment. The crew cab is meant to also transport the crew that is for said equipment.
The one the right is specifically meant what appears to be lighter duty use and hauling. I agree that people should use the right tool for the job. I find the one on the right to be very practical. But for the sake of this post as a means to compare Japanese craftsman vehicles to American.
You should actually show something actually comparable. Like a ford ranger with a standard cab. Which might be about the same size and power. Maybe even the same bed size. Not something that has HD (Heavy duty) in its name.
Anything American should be avoided. Their food is full of sugar, cars are big and useless and internet companies always try to screw their users.
Excited for when American trucks just become literal tanks. Seems to be the trend since everything here constantly needs to be bigger bigger bigger for suburbanites. Who needs yards when you can have bigger houses? Who needs a healthy environment when you can drive gas guzzling giants? We're so unprepared to deal with climate change it's depressing. I want to believe that our culture will eventually naturally see the value in smaller, simpler things, but the trends haven't changed yet and I don't see why they would.
We're choosing Mad Max world in the USA.
The rest of the planet should plan accordingly by stocking spike strips or just not paving easy access to their homes. The Americans are transformed into toddling molerats once out of their vehicles and easily destroyed.
I do woodworking and have gotten by with my Subaru but occasionally need to pick up 4x8 sheets of plywood, OSB, or even drywall for the house. An electric kei truck would be perfect. I'm rooting for something like the Canoo or Telo EV truck to make it to market
Have you tried using a roof rack to strap the plywood down?
Most roof racks are not rated for much weight. A few sheets would be fine
This is what I do but not when it's raining. Same with drywall.
"Horses are man extenders" -Ken Barbie [The Movie]
-Ken. Just Ken.
I agree with the idea with the exceptions of towing capacity, passenger capacity, and possibly (probably) bed weight capacity.
But if you’re one guy that doesn’t tow anything and needs to haul a few sheets of plywood, sure, it makes sense.
The percentage of trucks on the left I see actually doing that is functionally 0%
Oh that may be true- but if we’re talking to working craftsman and builders as opposed to “anyone buying a truck” I think it matters.
Most truck buyers don’t need one. I don’t have a truck but I do have a 3600lb pop up camper that we tow with a Honda pilot. It’s basically the exact same car as the Honda Ridgeline pickup but with a hatch instead of a bed. It’s also a kid and vacation mobile.
In my case I’m not a craftsman but still couldn’t get by with the little truck because of towing and passenger capacity, that’s all I was saying.
Yeah for the whole 3 times a year you tow that thing.
That's just it: 99% of the time these vehicles are not being used to their capacity.
And people think that 1% somehow justifies the entire other 99%
It's laughable.
Well first off, we go camping 3 seasons a year, sometimes twice a month. Renting a car for camping, sometimes hundreds of miles away a dozen times a year doesn’t make any financial sense. Second, it’s our only big car and it’s used every time we have to pack the kids, dog, and luggage to go somewhere. My daily driver is a 4 door Subaru, not a Tahoe.
If I only need to tow or pack a vehicle once a year, I’d definitely consider renting, but that’s just not the case. I just hauled about 1000 lbs of lumber from home depot today- it literally gets used for its purpose on a weekly basis.
I’m not arguing the point there are lots of pickup bros that just run around in a king ranch solo and spend their weekend polishing it and taking all the parking spots at the mall, I’m just saying I really don’t think it’s really 99%. I see hundreds of tradespeople and weekend home improvement warriors on a daily basis.
Every pickup bro think pickups are justified. And they trot out all the same points you just made.
I offer you challenge: count every pickup you see, and record whether or not it has a load. I actually did that for a month, and its literally below 1% usage.
If I'm hauling a trailer 1% of the time, and drive on the road 3x a day, then I'm hauling roughly once a month, which is a bit low for my usage, but it's reasonable. Pulling a trailer once a month is a legitimate need for a truck though, that's not daily, but it is often enough to need a vehicle for it, and I don't want to have to rent something on a monthly basis just because you think I'm inefficient. If I had space for a second vehicle maybe I'd get a smaller daily driver, but I don't, so I drive a truck.
That's what you sound like.
Yes, too many people have large trucks that don't really use them for their purpose, but some of them are not that different from a sports car or sedan when not hauling a load for mileage and shouldn't be expected to be used 24/7. SUVs are probably worse overall than trucks when it comes to excess unused space and mediocre mileage, but nobody complains about those.
Sports cars sure, but sedans? Buuuuullshit.
Why not?
Are you serious, people complain about oversized SUVs all the time. Please.
You've now reached the tone of desperate justification that people with oversized vehicles always fall back to.
I think ideally most people would prefer a smaller car as a daily driver and a larger one to be used as needed but insurance and registration costs wipe out any gas savings. And renting a vehicle for long trips is often prohibitively expensive. So that leaves this option of using a car that 99% of the time is not necessary.
We don't need a lot of anything bar food, water, oxygen and sex. I'm all for sensible cars Vs that monstrosity on the left, but as hobbies go - boating is not the most offensive.
The problem I have with boating is that it takes a number of related environmentally irresponsible "wants" and chains them together into a series of linked "needs". One "needs" the truck because they have a boat. That's expected to be the end of the discussion, but really it isn't because it is fair to continue to question the whole chain. People are bad at distinguishing wants and needs, or alternatively people are very good at presenting their wants as needs when a justification is needed.
As a person who likes boating, I don't understand people wanting to tow around their boats all the time. If I were to ride a boat sufficiently that owning one makes sense, it would stay at the marina. Because why would I want a boat in front of my house? Then again I just rent boats because I want to ride them in different locations.
Well now you know one person who uses their huge truck for the purpose it was designed for! 350 owner here. If I didn’t actually need it, I wouldn’t have it. I use it to haul pallets, trailers, sometimes I hotshot. Right now I’m restoring a house built in the 1870’s and it’s cheaper to haul the equipment myself rather than pay someone to deliver it.
Could you not do the same with the smaller truck on the right though?
The payload capacity is likely too low (never mind having cab space for a secure tool storage separate from the exposed hauling area in the box)
No, I can’t. I can haul more than 35k lbs with my truck, what’s the max for the one on the right? I doubt you’d be able to fit a pallet, let alone the 3 the bed of my truck can hold. I can pull a semi with my truck, can the one on the right do the same? What about a 5th wheel?
There are very valid reasons to own the truck on the left. And more often than not, if you’re going to spend $90k on a truck, it’s because it’s needed.
How often are people really towing that much though? Maybe a couple times a year at most? It would be cheaper to just rent a big truck for the few times you need it per year than have that absurd truck as a daily driver.
Well like I said craftsman and home builders do all the time. I’m a weekend home improvement warrior and I need to haul or tow a few thousand pounds of stuff at least once or twice a month, sometimes more. We have an suv with a tow hitch for that but the idea is similar.
I fvcking love kei trucks but one counter point - a lot of US is shitty rural roads at 50-60 mph (80-95kmh) plus freeways at even higher speeds. Kei trucks are more of a city thing and just wouldn't fare well here. They are however very popular on university campuses.
The Japanese one would be fun for use in New York City. LOL. Easy parking, easy to navigate double-parked clowns. It just needs a bed cover to lock down anything purchased.
Unlisted benefit of the one on the left is you can fit more people in it.
Unlisted benefits of the one on the right are
As an American, I've written to multiple manufacturers, foreign and domestic, to bring/build the smaller Kei trucks but I have never heard any response except for Ford that basically sent a brochure for their F150 that has 'more space' for 'getting work done'. I would love these for practicality but the cost of importing a used one was MUCH higher than buying a normal truck/suv here. :(
Really wish I could get my hands on one of these. The import process is so complicated it makes it barely cheaper than a domestic used truck.
Hey! I live in Korea. These things are ubiquitous. They are colloquially called "Bongos" as that was the name of an older, popular model. There are more and more electric ones on the road these days, too.
Unfortunately, you can find a few of the monstrosities on the left here these days, too, but at least very few. They've got nowhere to park them here. Haha!
My first car was an early 90s Ranger. These were the days when you could actually buy a small pickup, not whatever the hell the Ranger is now.
Now, look, it was still horrible for the enviroment like all cars. It wasnt great on gas, but compared to larger trucks in that era, it sipped fuel by comparison. But friends asked why I didnt just go for a 'real truck'.
Simple. It was big enough for anything I needed to haul. I didnt need a huge truck. It was easy to drive and I could park it anywhere, even in the city when I visited.
Now they dont even make small trucks anymore, at least not in North America. Everything is huge even though only, like, 1% of truck owners actually need something that big. And they keep getting bigger year by year. Its insane.
Having a back seat is a legit feature. Other than that, you are right on. I would love to have a real small trucks available in the US. But thanks to Country Music that is just not possible.
Yeah can't put a car seat in the front
You can legally put a front facing car seat in the front of there is no backseat. Rear facing you are SOL.
Aren't switchable passenger airings still a thing? I know I saw them on Chevy 1500s 20 years ago.
My 2016 Subaru has automatic switching: I assume that’s common now. If the seat has less than 50 lbs, the airbag is off.
That being said, I wouldn’t trust it, since it seems a bit inconsistent, plus would worry car seats are too close in weight
How does each hold up in a collision tho? Crumple zones take up space, not something terribly present in the kei truck.
Not that this makes the 2500's faults or anything. It just seems worth noticing.
The one on thebleft is definitely better at killing people
Better to kill than be killed
This absolutely inhumane attitude is why we're dealing with people's monster trucks killing people on the road and greenhouse gas killing people the drivers haven't even met.
Especially considering a lot of collision deaths are pedestrians. Better to kill the pedestrain and get away with an accident than injure the pedestrian with the kei truck and end up getting sued.
"FORD F15-THOUSAND, GUARANTEED TO KILL PEDESTRIANS ON THE FIRST IMPACT OR YOUR MONEY BACK"
Emotional appeal🥱
As if you reasoned yourself into your position rather than being a coward.
Dude I just want to get to work, not participate in an arms race.
Oh definitely, helps if every third car or so is like the one on the right. Would be nice if the government subsidised the right ones and not the ones on the left
Its a tin can basically. Theres a reason why you cant import new ones, you have to wait 25 years. Also terrible emissions for its size.
Another reason you can't import light trucks from over seas is because there's a 25% protectionist tariff on foreign light trucks. Combined with a practically non-existent market for them there's no incentive to try and sell them here.
If a Smart Fortwo can meet those standards there's no reason a kei truck couldn't be made to meet them as well.
The smart fortwo had 340 more ccs, and .1 meters wider.
Kei trucks are basically road legal gators.
In a collision, fewer people die with the small vehicle.
Is that because it only fits one person?
Except that the studies don't suggest that. In other parts of the thread, the risk to life and injury works out to be roughly the same for the average collision.
Unless your commentary is: "Less seating means less people involved." In which case: Good job, hard to counter.
So basically, "fuck other people! I care about my own safety and that's it!"
Lovely sentiment, no wonder the US is doing so great.
Nah, it was a simple question about the overall efficacy of surviving a crash.
And if you had participated in other parts of the conversation, you'd see that there is actually movement on that front. TL;DR, since you seem in a hurry, both trucks are equally safe at a speed that most collisions happen ( under 40mph ).
But if you want to make that about "AMERICANS ARE EVIL", I can't really stop you. <3
I'm not gonna say Americans are evil, but an astounding percentage lacks critical thinking skills of the most basic variety.
Which, unfortunately, isn’t only an American problem.
Wait.. Do you not care about your own safety? When all other factors are equal, you'd prefer to just be dead?
Also, this is America. I hate being the murica guy but... Other countries have these windey roads that go around mountains because they're seen as obstacles or they just don't have mountain ranges to deal with. Here in America we see a mountain and we see it as a challenge. We build roads directly and straight through the most convenient straight line to the next city.
Now me as a Seattle person I look at the vehicle on the right and I see a great around the town LIGHT hauling truck that would be very useful within those confines.
If I want to go beyond that like say taking the family to Idaho/Silver Lake or even Sun Lakes I'm screwed. Going up the pass with that I'd be surprised if I broke 50mph with that, the speed limit is 70. Not sure where I'd put my family during that drive tbh but let's pretend they don't exist... Now I'm up in the pass while going 20 under the speed limit without dieing... What if there's snow? There's snow for half of the year. I'm straight up screwed in that car in the right.
Not sure why you would go on a family trip with a work truck. The Japanese truck is specialized for work, because it's silly to have a work truck that you go on big family trips with.
That said, a quick google for Japanese trucks just picking the first one I can find - the Mitsubishi Minicab - it seems they can go 70mph. The Mitsubishi Minicab has a top speed of 72mph.
Because some people can’t afford more than 1 vehicle.
Also, yes the Japanese truck can go 70, but that’s on an even plane. Put that thing on even a 5% incline and I doubt it’d get up to that speed. It’s difficult to maintain any vehicle at 70 on an incline.
Of course it’s supposed to generate money. That doesn’t mean it will generate enough to pay for a second vehicle.
Dodge enters the chat, flourish gestures silently at the Pacifica Hellcat minivan
eyeroll Fucking Dodge owners.
Lived in Utah with many a mountain road. People go well over 70 on an incline daily.
Oh, also remember the truck is governed at 70. Meaning it will take having the pedal to the floor to maintain that 70mph on an incline. It’s much easier to maintain a speed and even go over when your vehicle doesn’t have a governer on it. Mine is governed at 96.
Are you talking cars or trucks? It’s easy to get up to 70, it’s hard to maintain if you’re not constantly keeping your pedal on the floor. I currently live on a mountain, so I’m speaking from experience. I drive a 350 though and I’m sure it’s easier in a car.
The Japanese minitruck is a lot cheaper than the American truck, both in purchase and in use. If you buy a purpose built vehicle for work and personal use (or, even better: use public transit for the latter) in Japan you likely spend less than you do buying just a large pickup in the United States.
A 2023 F150 in the US starts at $33k. A 2023 Mitsubishi Minicab in Japan starts at $12k. You can almost buy three of them. The F150 has a fuel efficiency of 20mpg. The Mitsubishi Minicab has a fuel efficiency of 39mpg US. On top of that, maintenance will be cheaper with a smaller and cheaper vehicle.
It's also worth noting that large vehicles incur social costs external to the consumer. A larger vehicle wears down roads quicker, requiring more government subsidy or higher taxes for road maintenance. A larger vehicle takes up more space, requiring wider roads and larger parking spaces, which makes infrastructure more expensive and sprawling; the latter makes cities less walkable.
A larger vehicle has a bigger environmental impact, negatively impacting health - leading to more spending on health care - and to a larger burden on the climate - requiring more spending on green energy and carbon offsets. A larger vehicle is less safe in collisions, leading to more deaths and graver injuries, again requiring more spending on health care.
Granted, the United States has remarkably poor infrastructure and civil planning for a rich country, making it difficult for its citizens to rely on superior modes of transport, and incentivizing bad transport outcomes. I certainly don't blame any American for deciding to buy an American car; the country is just designed around them.
All of these are great points to take into consideration, if you’re looking for a truck for personal use. You also compared the mini truck to a 150. You also failed to compare the load capacity of both vehicles if the 150 is used for its intended purpose, same with a 250 and 350. For instance, what is the load capacity of the mini truck compared to the F line? Am I able to haul a 5th wheel with the mini truck?
If I could, I’d buy 3 sedans rather than the 1 truck I currently own. But I wouldn’t be able to do my job. Id have to switch careers and we all know how easy that is in the current job market. I can’t haul shit in a sedan, pulling a loaded 26ft trailer is out of the question. It’s laughable imagining a sedan trying to pull a tractor.
These are some of the things people in these threads tend to forget. It seems like everyone sees a truck, closes their eyes, and just assumes the owners are dicks. And I’ll agree, tall truck owners are dicks, most of them are young who think they own the road.
But non lifted trucks? 90% are being used for its intended purpose. Lifting a truck lessens the load capacity so owners who need the truck for work, won’t lift it. At most, they’ll level it if they aren’t going to need the full load capacity.
I feel like you're taking this discussion way too personally. You don't need to defend your own purchase here. I already granted that anyone's choice of transport is hugely influenced by environmental factors, and in the United States those favour very big personal vehicles.
Even if that weren't the case, there will always be niches in which a specific choice makes sense, even if the choice were broadly asinine (which - again - choosing a large vehicle is not if you're in the United States). I am not (and no sane person in this thread) is arguing that there are no valid use cases for these vehicles, even in a country where infrastructure and society is designed around smaller vehicles.
Yes, the load a minitruck can carry is a lot less than a large truck. That doesn't take away the fact that the focus on huge personal use vehicles in the United States broadly has a lot of negative externalities.
One of these are not for work. You don't risk a dent on a $60,000 show piece.
I saw a dude on YouTube complaining that his fairly new $85k Dodge Ram work truck was breaking down. I don't think he expected people to call him an idiot for spending that much on a work truck. I'm sure he did actually use it to haul shit around since he is a farmer but probably $35k of that is comfort stuff.
My wife's family runs their farms with motorcycles and tractors. They seem to be doing fine. Agreed he is a not wise.
If you are buying brand new, $60K is fairly base model now (for a pickup truck at least).
Why are you saying it like it's something normal you fat burger.
Anyone drive one of these in Canada during the winter?
I recently bought a car and really wanted a kei truck, but I have to drive highway to get to work and I couldn't find a highway legal one for any remotely sane price :/ hopefully I'll find one next time I'm looking
Check out Mayberry Mini Trucks in NC
But the right one doesn't have enough room for a crate of piss-weak "beer", a gun rack, or a perch for your eagle.
Japan is known for not having much on-street parking, you need the extra 10 feet of height to see over the SUVs parked on every street corner here.
They don't even sell like the tiny rangers anymore, the f150 trucks are so ridiculously oversized
Vans are more useful work vehicles than these giant pickup trucks, since usually you want your equipments to be covered and protected from the elements.
I feel the Ford Maverick is a step in the right direction.
Yeah tons of companies miss the ranger like orkin, they say the large size of the old f150s was a challenge imagine now
They are so cool. I really wanted to buy one, but they are the tiniest bit too small for my needs (I use a truck for work) but would probably work for most people
Even Toyota's own Tacoma line is much more modest than that monstrosity on the left side of the image. I think their business and marketing people saw the trend in America for increasingly larger pickup trucks and pushed back against it, realizing themselves that it's pointless and ridiculous to have a truck that large.
All of the Tacoma's I've driven were pretty straightforward trucks despite it having 4 seats.
They also make the Tundra which is every bit as large as this truck shown.
The Toyota Tundra honestly makes the Ford F150 feel small.
It's estimated that Ford makes an average of $10,000 in profit for each F150 sold. Toyota would be stupid to not make a full sized truck to get some of that cash.
The older small Tacoma were my fav trucks.
But freedoms per burger!
Sizes aside, whenever I bought a Toyota or if I bought a Lexus, I would make sure that they were manufactured in Japan.
US automotive regulation is beyond fuvked and mostly fuction to kill competition and increase profits for "American" car manufacturers.
I agree that most craftsmen don't need the truck on the left, a few that I know need to tow a trailer with about 3,000 pounds of shingles for some roofing jobs. I'm pretty sure the one on the right might struggle with that kind of weight.
One of them I know do drive a Ranger which is somewhere between the two in size at least.
Here is the answer to your question. You can skip to the EPA graph at about 4:55, but may want to watch the whole vid if you actually care to learn about the problem. https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM
The one on the right l looks like those vehicles the school janitor drove around my HS in the 90s.
Fragile? But those American truck owners always try to look so tough and mean...
i always love seeing this japanese pickup
I know the arms race is not a good thing, but I also don't want to lose it. Just imagine a head in collision between these two.
But L makes owning libs so easy with the ‘rolling coal’ feature
\s
I can confirm, living in SEA, that the right can also roll coal.
this thing looks terrible to actually work with, hauling trailers or trucks, heavy loads in bed as well as off road? doubt
Yep. When I have to use a grappling hook and rappelling gear just to get in the truck, I'm not going to find it practical...
The most important thing for me in a car is safety, and clearly a car that small without a front engine will have much higher injury/mortality rate in a crash.
Agreed though that excessively boosted cars are dumb, and probably most people who drive a truck don't need one in the first place.
That's the thought process that led to everyone driving giant vehicles in the first place. Bigger doesn't always mean safer for the occupants, but bigger is always more dangerous for everyone else. There are plenty of smaller vehicles that have excellent safety ratings.
Ironically, SUVs and pickups are LESS safe if you compare injury (and death) in a crash, according to dmv studies
Please post source- and I'm curious is that same type of crash comparison- or is there another factor that could lead to those types of vehicles being in more extreme crashes in the first place. I also wonder if those is real crash data or lab testing. Lab testing can both over emphasize and under emphasize a problem- for example with the Pinto where they had a catastrophic failure in one type of uncommon crash but overall in real crashes it was safer than other cars of its time and class.
first result: https://theconversation.com/ive-always-wondered-are-suvs-and-4wds-safer-than-other-cars-98559
They're method of analysis for risk to drivers does not seem very thorough to me they only compare one SUV from each price bracket, it only includes risk of injury to driver(a big reason people but SUVs and minivans is for their family), and since only comparing one model for each bracket it leads to not very high sample data. Also, none of this is relevant to a Kei truck which doesn't have the design and safety features of a traditional sedan
Overall bigger cars will usually be safer for the occupant- but obviously there is a balance. My hesitancy is just with a small car that also doesn't have a crumple zone, and also is made out of lightweight materials.
I am a fragile piece of human, and I have slammed into a bull moose before.
I'm an intact fragile piece of human because I was in a Toyota Tundra, a Japanese truck.
Get the vehicle that suits your needs and tastes.
The "get the vehicle that suits your tastes" part is exactly what's problematic nowadays, though.
In my lived experience people are also notoriously bad at analyzing their own needs, a fact car salesmen and marketers take full advantage of.
But you know, it's a cardinal sin to tell someone they don't evaluate need very well. Take my mom and dad,they live together with no kids, semi retired and in 2018 they replaced an SUV with a $55,000+ Ford Mustang. The same year I got a Chevy Bolt for my family of 3, now 4. Fast forward to 2023, they spent the last six years paying higher monthly payments than I did, they can't take the grandkids anywhere because car seats don't fit, they complain about being on fixed income because the price of gas spiked up, they can't take road trips because fuel is too expensive and when I mentioned maybe they should have considered an EV they say "well I don't have a spare sixty thousand dollars around just to save a buck on gas". Anyway, I'm the AH now for having tried to convince them in 2018 that a sports car was not what they needed.
Next story, a married friend of mine bought a large SUV soon after buying a house. It was just the two of them. Asked why get such a big vehicle they said they were renovating the house, and it was easier to use their own vehicle than to get deliveries or rent a truck occasionally. Years after finishing the home one of them is still making payments on that rig, and since they're divorced the only hauling it does is one person to work at great expense.
That is not really a reply to what I wrote, though. I do get the appeal of fast and powerful cars subjectively, but objectively it should be a means to an end and simply tick all the "useful" boxes when making a purchase decision. Because the manufacturers want to earn as much money as they can, they cater to what people "want" because the price tags and margins are bigger. What people want in the US nowadays seems to be huge SUVs, huge pickup trucks (possibly lifted with 24 inch wheels) or other large vehicles that are preferably equipped with supercharged V8 engines and have all the bells and whistles you can fit into a vehicle that weighs 2 tons or more.
Because people are buying cars that suit "their taste" or their imagined "needs", we're looking at an arms race on the roads and most of the efficiency gains of the past decades are eaten by the taste for large, powerful and very comfortable passenger vehicles. People may want a fully kitted Escalade, while a Smart car would do the trick for the grocery run or daily commute.
Ya gotta excuse the Mom and Dad. While I don’t know what they are like, so many of us spend our whole adult lives doing the mature thing, or doing everything for the kids. Yes, I can understand the urge to live a little, splurge a little, if they’re a little ahead. I’m picturing that Mustang as a lifelong dream that they always put off in favor of something practical
I bet a train wouldn't even need to be serviced after hitting a moose. Nor would it even delay the trip.
I was driving from a village of 13 people, Healy Lake to Fairbanks, Alaska.
So I guess the trains delayed until the state decides to lay tracks down for the dozen people living there.
Nowadays, in rural Alaska at least, it seems trains are for tourists.
Trains won't make every connection possible, but many people commuting between major urban areas still encounter dangerous roadkill conditions in their cars that could be mitigated by having good, high speed rail.
I'm in Tokyo right now, and absolutely nobody drives a big truck. I would estimate 80% of cars in the city have 660cc engines.
they both seem too large, are there any smaller ones?
https://i.imgur.com/UlQ5CxZ.jpeg
If the one on the right still seems too big for you, maybe look into a cargo bike
This is a thorough and accurate assessment. If you include the "van" type vehicle, which is essentially the same as the little truck with a roof, you get the added benefit of being able to lock your goods and tools away. And then there's THIS.
R can't tow for shit.
R has a 2,200 lb carrying capacity. It can haul or tow almost anything a regular person needs to 99% of the time.
These little trucks also build and supply massive countries across the world. It's preposterous to think you need 4,000lbs of carrying capacity day in and day out. You absolutely do not.
Great, but carry capacity and towing capacity aren't the same thing. And it doesn't matter if I don't need to tow something everyday, even if I need to tow something monthly or even yearly the one on the right just can't do it. Also from my very brief searching it seems like a KEI truck absolutely does not have a capacity of 2200lbs, more like 800-1500lbs. I will agree though, if you just need a work vehicle and a truck bed then the KEI truck is probably fine. If you need to tow, it absolutely is not.
Normally, you'd be right. If you need towing capacity, you need it. However, truck on the left is the MOST POPULAR CAR IN USA. 95% of people living there don't need anything other than proverbial small dick compensation.
I'm not defending the truck on the left, just stating a reason you may need more than just the one on the right. I drive a "compact truck" a Hyundai Santa Cruz because it was the best blend of affordability, usefulness, comfort, ease of use in a city, and towing capacity. It is 4 door, easily fits 4 adults comfortably, easily tows my small boat (has a 5000lb capacity), and I have plenty of room in the bed for small projects a home owner would need to do. All while being based on a smaller SUV and having a 2.8l V4. I would definitely agree that the majority of truck owners have far more than they need, but the KEI truck is extreme on the other side.
If you need to tow something that heavy once a year, you are not buying a car for that.
I mean, I wouldn't but that thing still has to get moved somehow. That truck still has to be available somehow.
Yes, you can always rent one when you need it.
I don't think the big family that is going on their once or maybe twice a year camping trip with their large trailer is going to rent a truck for their vacation. But, yes that's a possibility.
I mean if our culture wasn't so car centric and centered around instant gratification that wouldn't be an issue, it's not too hard to rent a car at all, especially if you've been planning a year long trip. Not trying to soapbox here, though, I'm very reliant on my car too and see doing all that as an inconvenience, but I realize how absurd it is to feel that way.
You can call a tow truck when you need one. You dont have to drive piece of industrial equipment to go to the hairdresser.
Yes, let me call the tow truck to take the camper on a family vacation. Brilliant.
You mean the things on wheels that normal cars, half the weight of that thing, tow all the time? The smaller truck in this image can absolutely tow a camper.
Good luck
Left: 4 dudes can ride comfortably to a job site 100 miles away in 100F weather
4 dudes can also ride comfortably 160km to a job site in 38° weather in a Honda Civic.
Not with their tools and supplies they can't
Every trade is obviously different, but I always had my tools in a trailer that stays on site, and supplies delivered.
Tows 7500lbs less if anything and I can still seat my family and friends. You are more apt to compare this to a van if you want an actual comparison. But you don't.
Sounds like 2 different specialized vehicles would work better
More cars you say?
Why would anyone want two or more specialized vehicles when they could have a single one that does every job just as well, and a few more besides?
Granted, you'd actually have to be using the bigger truck for those jobs, which the vast majority of owners do not.
Once you get out of the city, those trucks actually start doing work, and a lot of work at that.
In rural settings having more specialized vehicles is like having specialized running shoes and boots. Both wear out slower than wearing a single pair, and each works far better for their specific application.
But if you don't have parking space for multiple vehicles then the best compromise is the way to go. That is where SUVs and four door cab trucks come in depending on whether you want a permanently enclosed materials area or the option for more seats.
It is a shame that in the US this tends to end up with ever increasing sizes and fewer options for two seater shorter light trucks because people choose the bigger models so they can see over the other bigger models.
American cars need to be bigger and strong BC they need to carry all the obese mongrel americans
L triple the bed size when actually comparing cubic feet.
L higher and deeper bed means over sized and long loads with a flag are legal.
L has a larger engine which means it can carry heavy loads much easier.
L Relatively silent in the cab.
L carries 3 more passengers.
L ability to hitch much larger trailers and campers.
L tow hitch unnecessary for 3/4 of American truck drivers, who use their hitch once or never per year.
L Bed size irrelevant for 1/3 of American truck drivers who use their trucks for hauling once or never per year.
L is three times as likely as a sedan to kill pedestrians in a crash.
L "relative" cabin quiet achieved by unnecessary insulation caused by inefficient, excessive engine noise.
L unnecessary larger engine and acceleration speed translates directly to increased cost and pollution
L does jobs with embarrassing inefficiency that most compact cars could do while saving money and being safer
I could make a lot of those arguments about the other truck too. Most people don't need a truck for most of their transportation. People in this thread are a ting like there isn't a single good reason to use American trucks. I can agree that they're usually excessive, but you cannot pretend that the other truck is better in every way.
Yeah it's just better the overwhelming majority of the time and for some reason is nonexistent despite this advantage.
Yeah, I feel like US trucks really should be company vehicles for the most part. That'd be a decent niche imo. And if it's company money, they'd probably go with the cheaper option anyway
Yeah, my family currently has R but next year we need to buy an L for most of the reasons listed above. I'm just glad both options are available, it's always works out better for consumers when there's more choices depending on your needs.
I think the difference in opinion here though is that you have a small truck but recognize that you do have reasons to upgrade, instead of starting out with one of the monster trucks and not ever really using it to the potential that it has all while creating way more emissions and it being way more dangerous
Lovely in theory until:
Only 2 v 5 people meaning more round trips Significantly less load meaning more round trips Much nicer to drive Poor crash rating, less safe.
It’s almost as if the industry has been formed by the popular choice among the people. Isn’t that quaint.
You are not getting rebuttals because you made false claims like "couldn't tow a tricycle" and made non truck specific tasks like "driving my family to dinner" as part of your argument. The kei truck could certainly haul a tricycle and you don't need a large pick up truck to get to dinner.
When I had my roof replaced last year the shingles were delivered by a large flat bed semi with a conveyor belt to get the shingles on the roof. The guys doing the work showed up the next day in small cars. I doubt may people are rolling up to replace a roof with a truck bed full of shingles and carrying them up a ladder.
Large trucks do have uses in a few very limited places but the vast majority in the US are not needed. Looking at self reported usage of truck owners most would be better served with a smaller more economical car and renting a truck as needed. Even people hauling regularly would probably benefit having a kei truck.
If you're not sure why you're getting downvoted, read your first sentence
Lol, tell me you’ve never been outside the US without telling etc
You do realise everybody else on this planet can tow everything they need without those BS pavement princesses, right? Or do you think people in the US are the only ones going camping, owning boats?
I feel you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLqPfAylF4
Oh hey, it’s the cult people. Happy to see y’all finally got settled in.
How good is the one on the right for off roading? Towing? Hauling campers? uNleSs yOuR frAgIlE..... just stop
The one on the right is probably better at offroading. Some kei trucks are 4x4 and lighter weights and shorter wheelbases are usually a good thing in off road scenarios.
Wheel size plays a large role too
If you really need the ground clearance, you can install a lift kit on the kei truck to accomodate a larger tire diameter. I doubt this would be neccesary unless building a vehicle specialized for off road.
There are more about an order of magnitude more people discussing those functions on the internet then there are practically using them.
When you can't even make reasonable arguments and have to blatantly lie or twist reality to fit your narrative, it's called propaganda.
The amount of completely bullshit or cherry picking of specs or facts in this post is ridiculous. This community has turned into PETA-levels of obnoxiousness where even people who might otherwise agree with some of your ideas are just turned off by the stupid tactics. Like yeah, we get it, everyone would like more green and more walkable communities, but holy fuck the amount of bullshit some of you folks will go to to fit that narrative is nauseating.
What's bullshit is calling something bullshit for reasons you ether don't know or aren't willing to share with others!
If you are comparing the two trucks as work trucks, then the tiny one just cannot compete. It has a much lower bed weight capacity, has almost no towing capacity, and cannot fit more than two people.
As an actual work truck, it kind of sucks. It might be able to putter around on a job site, but that's about it.
The big truck can haul pallets of water in the back, can tow trailers full of plywood and sheet rock, and can actually fit most of a small work crew.
If you compare them as work trucks, the small one loses every time. And OP looks stupid for even making the comparison.
The vast majority of those big trucks sold are not work trucks. That's what the criticisms should focus on.
Your argument: "It's bullshit! You're annoying too!"
Well, if you don’t care about comfort or safety go with the one on the right. I’d be curious to see how that KEI Truck holds up in a major collision with the average American SUV.
That’s the arms race
In normal countries being able to crush smaller cars during a collision isnt usually a selling point :/
In the US that's actually a sport!
This is so TRUE! My next car is gonna be a M4 Sherman, I’m afraid of how my average American SUV holds up to the Silverado 2500 HD on the left.
I'm more of a Leopard 2 guy, but get whatever keeps you safe out there.
I was thinking the opposite. I met with the business end of one of those little trucks while riding a tiny 50cc Honda scooter back in the nineties. We both walked away unscathed. When all the vehicles are small, catastrophic results seem to decline.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/what-drove-japan-s-remarkable-traffic-safety-turnaround
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-the-most-car-accidents
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/
Long story short, you're completely incorrect. Driving Japan is scientifically proven to be significantly safer than the US, and one of the reasons for that is the smaller size of car. To quote one of those articles:
Americans need to stop with the arms race of "bigger is safer", it's all bullshit.
So you agree that American cars are built with only the passengers safety in mind and people don’t give a shit what happens to the other party?
While true, that's not a point for the American car. That one won't stand a chance against a train, but nobody would come to the conclusion that everybody should buy a personal train to haul their lawnmower.