Should we create a new political party in the US, specifically for shitting on the rich?
Let's face it, the dems don't care about the commoners, the republicans are actually pure evil, everyone was happy when that shitstain CEO got shot.
Maybe we should build on this momentum we have to drive actual change at the political level.
my first act as president in 2029 would be to issue a full and unconditional pardon of the billionaire killer.
edit:
well alrighty then, followup question, does anyone want to join my newly formed political party? I'm going to start working on drafting our mission statement, or manifesto or whatever it should be called.
Further Edit: I set up a lemmy community for us to post shit about it. If you want to join, that's our official, unofficial space. https://lemmy.world/c/newpoliticalparty
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Since you seem interested, start one. Don't ask someone to do it for you, or for their approval. Do what you truly believe, not what others support.
Seeking approval is kinda what politics is. That'd be the poll in politics.
If you do. I think it’s a great idea.
But don’t fall into the “green party” loophole of just sabotaging neo-liberal democrats and helping literal facists get elected.
Start local. Run for seats you can win. Priosritise states with open primary systems.
We need a grassroots movement.
Right now is actually the perfect time to create a third party. You have effectively two years to get people excited about an actual progressive party and if the DNC come knocking saying you're going to split the vote, tell them that they are splitting the vote and they should fold into you.
I'm fucking tired of the Democrats learning the wrong lessons from lost elections. They'd rather lose than give up power.
There is a reason why it worked for the Republicans and won't work for the Democrats: the bases are vastly different.
Republicans, by in large, will vote for a Republican even if they don't like the candidate. I saw this a lot when I was a poll worker. They don't even care about their platform. So long as they have an R at the end of their name, they get a vote from Republicans.
While Democrats vote Democrat, they'll only come out to vote if they are energized. They won't come out to vote if they don't feel like you've earned it. We saw this in 2016 and 2024.
Simply put, Republicans are more reliable voters.
The Democrat tent is very large with often conflicting values. A lot of single-issue voters will simply stay home than to vote for a Democrat. Because of this, it is rare when a candidate will arise that will galvanize and coalesce the base.
The last time it happened was Obama.
Doesn’t even have to be progressive per se, just an “Eat The Elites” party would probably do well as the one and only platform at this point.
Let me translate that for you:
If you're offended, white moderate, then take it up with MLK Jr.
Y'all need an actual left of center, worker based party to undo this late stage capitalist nightmare that's happening now
you're god damned right.
*left
Phew, a lot of their Democrats actually seem to think they sit left of the spectrum, and they already get called commies by their right wing. Their brains might split in two when they realize that their Democrats are merely another side of the same liberal coin...
We have several.
We need one, but a third party will not get the desired result. It will only subtract from whoever major party is a little more like it, in this case probably the Democrats. Sad to say: the only meaningful path forward is to change the parties from within. I know that sounds daunting and boring. But can anyone reasonably think this will be easy and fun?
Need to fix the broken FPTP voting system first. Otherwise any left leaning political party will just take votes away from the dems and hand the election to the republicans.
And Republicans know this by the way, any left leaning fringe party will get financial donations from the Republican Party,
Thank god the actual answer is already here. Now let’s please vote it above the well-meaning fantasy comments saying “yeah! do it!”
Should you? Why shouldnt you?
Probably doesn't have enough money
All part of the plan init.
Because it will only spoil whichever major party is a little more closely aligned with it.
Can you elaborate please, cause USA doesn’t have a real left party at the minute, does it?
This video gives a great visual explanation of why third parties in US politics can only be spoilers. They cannot build anything.
https://youtu.be/qf7ws2DF-zk?si=WRctK96W6GrJJO2S
America already has “real left” parties like the Peace & Freedom party and the Green party. Starting yet another tiny party to occupy the left will add nothing. And trying to grow any of these third parties can only do one thing: take votes from Democrats, thereby helping Republicans.
It’s easy to say “US doesn’t have a real left party” but most people who care about that would rather not hurt Democrats and help Republicans, because Democrats are at least closer to the left out of the two major parties, even if neither is as far left as we would like.
The only option is to join the Democratic party and attempt to shift it left. This is exactly what America’s most prominent 3 leftists have done: AOC, Dennis Kucinich, and Bernie Sanders. They know that 3rd parties are a death wish. This is an objective fact. Everyone who cares about the left needs to grow up, accept this, and move on. Just like Bernie has. You don’t see him calling for a 3rd party. And he’s clearly a “real leftist” by any measure.
Yeah, FPTP. Im British mate. I know all about it.
By real left, Im talking real terms, not relative to other parties.
I answered you, mate. These parties DO exist in the US they are just really small, and this is why.
Theyre small cause of a lack of funding and an education system and media that tells people anything left is evil.
In the UK we had Jeremy Corbyn run for PM in 2017, in spite of a character assassination that said he supported the IRA and would ruin the country (That was never backed up with any facts...), and people saying Labour just get us in debt (Again, bollocks.), he still came incredibly close to winning, much like Sanders.
Well I’m aware of them, however small they might be, and I support their values. I would still never vote for their presidential candidates because of FPTP.
So I don’t think that funding and awareness are the issue. Even with those out of the way, it just doesn’t make sense to vote for them.
You’re probably thinking I’m not a real left voter but I assure yo I read the Green and P&F voter guides every time I fill out a ballot, to understand their advice on measures and candidates, but would never, ever vote for one of their candidates in any FPTP race. It would only help conservatives.
I don't think we're going to gain any traction until we override Citizens United and make bribing public officials illegal again. That would allow us to take back the legislative process and begin passing bills that the super rich are not going to like.
https://youtu.be/eYMbFyHXBE4
Depose party
First order: Greed Crimes
Any white collar crime done for the sole benefit of enriching one or siphoning money away from citizens or workers.
Regulatory capture, pyramid schemes, political bribery, hidden tax havens, environmental distruction, writing bills like citizens united, cutting social services, forming monopolies, competition buyouts, blatant conflicts of interest, etc.
We have hate crimes, when something is done out of hatred for a people it is given the harshest penalty because it hurts an entire group.
The thing is, greed crimes ruin the lives of thousands and millions, possibly everyone, and in my opinion should be capital offenses.
We need an investigative oversight committee that stop all functions of a person or company while looking into accusations. If found guilty, a company is dismantled, an individual is executed, their will is ignored and all assets are liquidated and used to remedy the situation that was created.
If found not guilty, you're closely monitored by the greed crime committee for an agreed period. If you are accused of three sepparate greed crimes and different times, even if found not guilty, you should be considered a bad faith potential, and exiled or removed from any position of power.
That's something Vietnam got right, sentence the corrupt billionaires to death. their greed destroys lives and kills countless people, yet we do nothing to fight back. screw that. It's time to fight back now.
Until we have a voting system where 3rd parties are viable (for example. Ranked Choice Voting, Star Voting, Approval Voting, etc.), we absolutely do not benefit in any way for the existence of more parties.
Whether intentional or not, America today is a two-party system by design. If you want more choices beyond the Democrats and Republicans, you need to help us enact voting system reforms which are necessary to allow 3rd parties to exist legitimately. We aren't joking when we say that voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away; it very much is.
Since the democratic party has become arguably centered instead of left, its natural that a new left leaning party should become mainstream
Lol wut? US dems have been right of center for a long time
To everyone bringing up FPTP, other countries manage to not have it, it can be done, so stop fighting so hard against efforts to doing away with it.
Yes, with a caveat.
Create a single-issue party for something like free healthcare, with your sole goal to be to drain votes from Democrats. Gain enough traction, and that party will welcome you into the fold with open arms, and will actually fucking listen to your issue as their primary platform.
This is essentially what happened with ukip and Brexit in the UK. It took a while for the movement to gain traction but it did eventually start to put pressure on the government at the time.
The only issue is if that you'll no doubt need rich backers to gain influence... But that might be a bit of an issue if your entire platform is to shit on the same people who you need.
Will they though? Biden was pitching a public option to compete with the other MFA candidates in 2020. He hasn't uttered a single word about it since he was nominated.
draining republican votes is the solution.
Wouldn't it be better to join a party that already has shitting on the rich as part of its mission? I mean the two big parties don't have that, but some of the small ones do AFAIK.
that's the thing, i can't think of any. the communist party of america is very much just full of tankies circle jerking about how ccp and north korea actually good, the green party is all about spoiling the dems and never actually do anything, the libertarians are fundamentally opposed to my political views. the only political party i can think of would be the bull moose party, but afaik they went extinct after teddy roosevelt.
Looks like some conservative astroturf organization co-opted the name in 2022...
sons of bitches. I wanted that name.
AFAIK the Greens exclusively run for president because if they get 5% of the popular vote they can get federal funding. Whether that's a good idea overall I have no idea, but there's at least logic to their strategy.
The progressive part is a thing I think.
No, because "caring about commoners" and "shitting on the rich" are not actually the same objective. People are happy about it because it feels good to get revenge or for people who treat others unfairly to be punished, but sating popular bloodthirst isn't necessarily aligned with actually making society a better place. "Kill the bad people and the problems will be fixed" is historically very much a famous last words kind of sentiment.
First past the post is what you're tangling with.
Https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
It makes it so third parties only hurt their closest friend and lose to their least favorite party. Taking that energy into the democratic party itself is probably the best bet. Not good, but best.
In ranked choice, yes a new party would probably be best.
Don't see why shitting on rich cunts needs to be political, they are a problem and they should get what they fucking deserve Joker style, simple as that.
But if we're making new parties anyway, one of the primary mandates should absolutely be about completely and utterly ruining the lives of anyone that makes an unnecessary amount of money or hurts others for personal gain.
we've been shit on too long by the ruling class, it's time we shat back.
We need to dismantle the economic policies which were set when reagan took power. bring back the 75% tax on the wealthiest, tax the shit out of big corpos, tax the shit on inheritance taxes when it's over a certain threshold, end for-profit healthcare and hearth insurance. And undo whatever the hell don the con is going to do when he takes office.
If you want to join, please go to the community https://lemmy.world/c/newpoliticalparty, we need to get the ball rolling so we don't lose this momentum
No. Socialists of the past have never won any political victories by saying "rich bad," the victory comes from presenting alternative solutions like public ownership and central planning. What you are describing is adventurism, not a genuine revolutionary movement.
I suggest you read my intro to Marxism list.
I mean the French revolution would like a word with you.
Also rich bad. It's demonstrably true that rich people are completely disconnected from reality and will step on anyone to maintain their wealth.
It is not all of them, but it is most of them. History has always seen class warfare and this time is not different .
The French Revolution was a bourgeois revolution. It deposed the monarchy, but unlike what the Paris Commune tried to achieve, the Bourgeoisie became the new owners of the State. Proletarian Revolution needs organization and unity.
Fair.
What more powerful motivator than the common rich folk being subject to an entirely different life, government, justice system, etc?
Hopefully people wise up that class warfare never ended.
That is one useful motivator, that can be combined with Socialist and Communist theory of organization to actually successfully overthrow and replace the previous system.
I didn't actually say socialism though, did I? I mean, I'm a socialist, but I think we have to just focus on shitting on the rich, because it's easy and people will be able to join in.
I'm also not ruling out throwing actual shit at the rich.
If your only platform is uniting on hatred, and have no actual plans in place for improvement, you just become terrorists, rather than revolutionaries. Something being "easy" doesn't mean it is effective. Lenin actually wrote about such a group, the Socialist Revolutionaries, in the article Revolutionary Adventurism. The SRs had taken to advocating assassination as it "transfers power from the elites to the masses" (something historically false) and declared that theory was bad, because it can get in the way of unity. Such directionless action ultimately doesn't change anything.
Hating the Capitalists is well and good, but without a unified plan to replace them, the hate becomes the goal and nothing gets better. That's why we can celebrate the death of this bozo while recognizing nothing will change because of it unless the workers get organized.
Shitting on the rich has most definitely worked in MANY situations.
Only when combined with actual practical plans in place beforehand.
Isn't that what this is?
No. This platform is "rich bad." It doesn't present an alternative, it preserves existing systems that give rise to wealth disparity without tackling them and presenting an alternative.
Oops. I meant the community that OP started. It's a place to hammer out those details on top of RICH BAD.
People have already hammered out those details, the most major arguments are on the basis of Anarchism or Marxism. OP didn't invent anything, the answer lies in the past. PSL already exists, as does FRSO, what specifically is wrong with these where an entirely new party is necessary?
Yes
We don't need a party devoted to shitting on any specific other group. We need one that is devoted to building up regular, every day people instead of the already obscenely wealthy. Like, actually devoted to that and not simply giving lip service to it while working against it (like Conservatives tend to do), or doing as little as they can to get "good guy points" while still sucking a big, fat corporate dick (like the Democrats tend to do).
Don't Start With President! Running for president as a party that doesn't have any senators or governors is a massive waste of money on an ego trip that normally hurts the side that people voting for them support.
Start with safe democratic states, like New York and California. Run for safe democratic mayor-ships and house seats. Once you get a couple of wins, momentum, and a bench of candidates: then try for governor or senator. Once you get more than 3 of them THEN you choose the most popular among the group and run them for president.
You're right, I'm not actually serious about running for president or fielding a candidate for president, but we should run in all the deep blue and the deep red states.
Right now we don't have a left wing party in the US. We have a right wing party, and a right wing fascist party. As much as members of the fascist party love to shit on the Democrats for being leftists, most of them aren't actually leftist.
The fascist party calls the dems liberals, as if it describes someone who's left of center. In the rest of the world, liberal describes someone who is right wing. It seems like the rest of the world knows better on that one.
We are past the soap and ballot box stages.
Unlimited bunny delivery on the 1%
Join Working Families Party. https://workingfamilies.org/
They seem good, but as a disabled person who can’t work, the name is icky.
Work is more then just wage labour. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Well when politicians constantly use work and labour as a way to shore up support, it very quickly forgets and leaves behind those who can’t.
“working people deserve a living wage” (does that imply non-working people don’t?)
This is a "black lives matter" messaging situation. Just because working people deserve a living wage doesn't mean other people don't.
It's annoying that this isn't obvious. But I agree that it's not.
Not really. There isn’t a systemic problem where the lives of black people are valued more than others. The systemic problem is that black people’s lives are valued less than others.
There is a systemic problem where the lives of people unable to work through no fault of their own are valued less than those who can work.
Good point. So it's more akin to saying "black men's lives matter" then. Both are oppressed groups, one more than the other, but why dice it up like that?
I think the answer in this case is that the solutions are different. One is about improving disability and healthcare, one is about minimum wage. But they didn't make it nearly clear enough that they would improve disability. They only focus on the minimum wage message.
Everyone can work in some way
That is completely untrue and shows you don’t really understand the complexity of disability.
I literally cannot.
I’m able to spend about 30mins-1hr total per day on my phone doing simple tasks. And that’s because I’ve improved, most of my illness course I’ve been unable to use my phone of communicate in any way at all.
I’m completely bedridden and unable to speak, deaf, unable to tolerate much sound or light.
I cannot work.
you have spent quite a bit of time reading, comprehending and replying to this comment thread. thank you for expending that energy to enlighten us about your situation.
We need electoral reform that implements a system where more than two parties becomes viable. Imagine splitting left-leaning voters even more than they are now. It’s guaranteed wins for Republicans.
First Past the Post must be done away with and there should instead be a coalition of voters that refuse to support ANY candidate that doesn’t make it their primary campaign policy. Once that’s done, smaller parties will organically be created and incorporated into the system.
Support organizations listed here, specifically FairVote.
Then do STAR, or approval. Those are simple. And I think even more likely to allow 3rd parties.
Pretty much anything is better than FPTP.
Those don't eliminate the spoiler effect, but it does end up looking different. (Maybe has a different name in this form?)
My blue state has a blanket primary, and this last election I saw that demonstrated:
One race had two Republicans and like half a dozen Democrats and another half a dozen in other parties. The Republican vote of course was split between the two candidates. The Democrat vote was split like a hydra and we very nearly had (few hundred votes away) the two Republicans go to the general!
Fortunately, the top Dem barely squeaked into second place, and then easily won the general, but it was mighty close.
We need a new system. Not a new party to add to the shitty system.
No shit, but how are we going to do that? What would we need to do to effect that change?
Unfortunately, the only real path out of this at this point is violent revolution. We tried everything else. For decades. Pleaded with them to listen. They arrested and murdered us. Brainwashed the average person using sophisticated psychological conditioning. Captured every branch of government and agency.
Tell me another way. I am begging you. But I've been looking for years and I have hit a wall. We are out of time.
They chose this.
It's not going to amount to anything if he's the only one taking action. If we've all just been waiting for things to get started then where is everyone now? I've seen tons of "I've got my pitchfork ready for when things get started" posts over the last few years but now that it's supposedly here I only see the one pitchfork.
Obviously I'm not doing anything either but the question I'm getting at is, is it fair to say the public has been galvanized if it's just one guy doing one thing while a bunch of people watch?
But without rich people, who's going to fund it?
With enough momentum, we can start a grassroots movement.
They just arrested the only one of us with enough guts to do anything tangible about the fucked up system. If we stop now, he'll go down, shit will stay the same. We need to be outraged. We need to be out there, shitting on billionaire CEOs of insurance companies. We need to make sure that nobody forgets who holds the actual power. It's not them, the wealthy few, it's us, the masses.
Our grandparents parents pulled off more difficult shit with less than what we had, we cannot let these fuckers take back what was fought so hard for.
Well, good on you man. I'm skeptical this event can be pivoted into actual positive change for the average American, but if you have enough resolve to make a go of it, you're a better man than I.
Good luck, it will go nowhere
Until the wonner-takes-all system is changed you will always only have Democrats and Republicans
Of course all that depends on if there will be a democracy left after 4 years...
Third parties don't and can't work. The system is rigged for that. Better to start an anti-ceo PAC.
I'm part of the forward party if you wanna check it out.
Could look into the working families party. I like their policies, and they're building power from the ground up in local elections rather than trying to run a presidential candidate.
It exist already. Join PSL
i would, but they appear to be tankies who support the NK government and the CCP. I'm very against those failed worker states.
If you want a new leftist political party you are going to have a hard time finding one without leftists. It is also worth questioning why it is you agree with the state on those points. What makes you think they would not lie and slander their enemies?
I have to agree I find PSL disappointing. In their long history they don’t seem to have put even a dog catcher into elected office.
It's a revolutionary party, the focus is not exactly on elections
Then it’s a dumb revolution. No new human system can arise that doesn’t use remnants of the old. Observe the current revolution happening in the united states. The MAGA fuckers are putting their cronies into positions everywhere, with the clearly stated purpose of destroying our current system.
A revolution that envisions a clean start untainted by what came before is the revolution of a naive child.
Revolution doesn't mean throwing the entirety of past society away, but changing whose hands its in.
Exactly!
Then I don't see why you are disagreeing with @[email protected] here.
Do you know why they do, and can counter their reasoning? Why do you call the PRC a "failed worker state" despite 95% approval ratings? I suggest you start with theory before trying to do something new with no foundation. I made an introductory Marxist reading list, if you'd like.
Get the hell outta here.
What happened on June 5 1989 in Tiananmen square?
What kind of pivot is this? What are you trying to accomplish, here? I asked you a question, if you can't answer that and instead respond with rudeness, then why would I ever answer what you ask?
Because I don't deal with dumbass tankies who simp for pooh bear and his little brother Kim.
https://wondermark.com/c/1062/
Pumpkin spice latte?
Yes because the Dems are basically suckups to the rich, just less fascist.
doesnt have to be just one, have many. doesnt even have to be tons of people, just 2 trying to actively do things is something.
We should not. This idea of starting a new party to do something has been exhaustively understood for a long time. All it is capable of doing is hurting the major party your new party is closest to. Best explained here.
It is exciting to create something new you have total control over, and that excitement can help you get off the ground and feel like you’re going somewhere, but this is an illusion, an eventually that momentum slams into a wall as you realize you’ve only shifted de facto political reality in the United States in the opposite direction you wanted to (again: because all third parties can do is steal votes from their most closely aligned major party).
Bernie Sanders has had this figured out for a long time. He shits on the rich morning and night. He’s also a grownup and knows that his only viable course is to try to shift one of the major parties themselves. He thinks he has better odds with the Democrats, and he’s probably right, though maybe “less bad odds” is a better characterization.
Entering into a major party is not fun and exciting and you don’t have a lot of control and quick momentum. But it is the only way. Small progress, long game. A flash in the pan 3rd party will only burn you.
You mean like the German die partei party?
Well I think the real question should be, why isn't the democratic party being sued for preventing other political parties from presenting themselves....
The issue is that with a two party system it permits bit sides to take its population for granted..... No real competition
You say 2 partes. I only see one.
Fair enough
Since criminals can be president now, I think Joe Exotic should be president. Make America exotic again!
People don't want to empower the workers and take away money and power from billionaires. Bernie Sanders already tried this but it's not how America works and what Americans want.
With the current system, every new party will take away votes from the party it's closest to. This ensures more voting percentage for the opponents. So when you create a socialist party, most of the votes you will get will be from democrats who won't vote for the democratic party, so it's easier for the Republicans to win. You just helped the opposite side.
Maybe when you create a party close to the Republicans you can steal their voters so the democrats have a higher chance of winning. Maybe do the same within the democrats to scatter their votes in a way so Bernie will get the majority.
Yes.
Come and join us, friend. I'm calling it the shit-back movement.
It'll take some work and we'll have to outline so very extremely many stances.
Is .world really the place though?
Probably not, I had one of my shit posts removed the other day.
I gotta get off .world myself.
I think it would take a massive, earth-shaking event for any other major party to be formed in the US. I understand that ballot access in most states is an extremely high barrier that blocks anyone except the major parties. Of course, the two major parties made sure to make it that way.
I personally like the idea of a real third party. But I think focusing on eat the rich won't have enough draw, and will push potential supporters away. I think the focus should be more on government FOR the people. It's similar, but wider in scope. Trump is doing america first... how about people first as the focal point.
Third parties don’t work. Support progressives and progressives only in the Democratic Party. The Working Families Party is a fantastic party as well.
fuck the democratic party. they've failed us, it's time to bury the corpse.
It would be more effective to focus on supporting a progressive candidate for the DNC chair. The prospect of establishing a viable third party is extremely challenging, given the existence of nearly 20 “progressive” third parties that have struggled to gain traction. As someone who served as the chair for the Ohio Green Party, and was a platform builder for an already defunct progressive party, I have firsthand experience with the obstacles such efforts face. I’ve learned from my mistakes. The Progressive Caucus, Justice Democrats, Working Families Party, and more are great organizations to organize with. AIPAC out-funded progressives, but now people know that AIPAC is the reason the Democratic Party is terrible, and now volunteer and donation signups for progressive orgs have raised.
I think it would be easier to convince a few people to take out more CEOs than it would be to convince all the progressives in America that the DNC is worth investing more energy in.
Unfortunately, it is the only choice we have, that or violent revolution.
I live in oregon, and I am looking to support progressive organizations more. Do you have any resources I can use to identify which organizations here are the real deal versus ones just pretending, or ones that are totally irrelevant?
Yeah sure, so they can rig their primaries again.
Again, that is why we need to push for the DNC chair to be a progressive.
Heard this for 30+ years and watched the Dems just go further right. Don't think it works bud.
Yeah, creating a third party seems a lot easier and more effective than taking over an existing party like the tea party did.