Words on ammo in CEO shooting echo common phrase on insurer tactics: Delay, deny, defend
Summary
The fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has drawn attention due to the phrase “deny, defend, depose” reportedly written on the shooter’s ammunition, echoing criticism of insurer practices like “delay, deny, defend.”
UnitedHealthcare, one of the largest U.S. health insurers, has faced scrutiny over claim denials and delays, including a Senate report highlighting issues with Medicare Advantage prior authorizations.
The killing has sparked public outrage and dark humor on social media, reflecting widespread frustration with health insurers, which many blame for rising healthcare costs and access barriers.
https://apnews.com/article/unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-delay-deny-defend-depose-ee73ceb19f361835c654f04a3b88c50cOpen linkView original on lemmy.world618
Comments98
It's literally the title of the book about their shitty tactics
Not literally, unless you mean figuratively literally.
https://www.amazon.com/Delay-Deny-Defend-Insurance-Companies/dp/1591843154 No they mean literally literally.
Yes, but "deny, defend, depose" was on the casings.
I believe they were talking about this part of the article.
Deny that you know or even saw them. Defend them if they do get caught, through protest, fundraising, bail, etc. Depose those who put them in jail if they are sentenced.
Don't shop at Amazon. Use your local library. https://pdfupload.io/docs/0d380e9b
I'm not planning on buying the book.
I certainly hope not; he just gave you the book for free.
Lol that book seems to be sold out or pulled from most online book stores.
dont i have something better to do that correct you? book exists
“Sparked public outrage”
Only reference in article is a link to another story discussing outrage on social media in general. AP is pushing a capitalist agenda.
I personally haven’t seen any outrage. Just that dark humor.
The outrage was already sparked. That's why he got shot.
I've seen plenty of outrage.
It's just all targeted at the insurance companies.
I think you're misreading this sentence: I think it's clearly implying public outrage surrounding US health insurance, not about the killing itself. "The killing has sparked public outrage and dark humor on social media" pretty clearly implies to me that they mean the public outrage associated with the dark humor.
“Humor”
Haha. Yes. We all make funny jokes! We're just joking right guys?
In Minecraft
The only outrage I’ve seen is directed towards mods on various platforms for locking community discussion about this incident.
Lol, "humor"? People seem downright giddy, and it's not a joke at all.
My dad got fucked around by insurance until he spent the rest of his (probably shortened) life in a wheelchair. For profit insurance should be a crime, they're all ghouls, fuck em all.
“Sparked public outrage” Where? The CEO’s of America headquarters? I’ve literally only seen elation & humorous remarks.
I think it's been public outrage about health insurers tbh
Oh yeah that’s fair
"If there is any person in the town, who feels emotion caused by this man's death," said Scrooge quite agonised, "show that person to me, Spirit, I beseech you."
Somebody lost someone and they correctly identified the person most guilty. That is what these people and their undeserved money fear. They fear when the riots start the people don't trash their neighborhood for once but seek out those to blame and trash them. That is when you will see gun control become a priority.
Sounds like a really roundabout way to get gun control but sure I'll take it.
Maybe you should re evaluate that. Like in 'are we the baddies?' style.
//Edit-
I am certainly not saying the CEO was anything other than a bad guy. I'm talking about being anti-gun.
IE, 'if when a guy with a gun kills someone we all agree is bad, and your takeaway from that is 'yay now we can can the gun', maybe you aren't the anti-violence person you like to think you are.
Won't someone think of the rich?
Yeah, it’s bad to kill someone with a gun but it’s okay to kill thousands with an AI-enabled claims denier.
Not even slightly okay. I am shedding no tears for this asshole. My comment was directed at the user who is happy that this might lead to more gun control.
I've re evaluated. The CEO was still definitely the baddie.
Of course he was. Where did I say otherwise?
Yeah no. Gun ownership in the USA is fucking crazy. How the fuck can a country have regular school shootings and not ban guns or at least regulate them slightly.
Because those kids are not rich.
And the fact that people seem to think that they absolutely need to own deadly weapons .
without receipts or red tape. Most countries have a licensing program for firearms.
It would be trivial to mandate each state license gun owners in order to purchase firearms but we don't even do that.
I would encourage you to educate yourself. If you honestly think there is not even slight regulation of gun ownership, then you are not informed on this issue.
I obviously exaggerated.
But compared to civilized nations it's not too far off.
If someone dies and everyone celebrates, maybe they are the baddie.
Not saying otherwise. I'm saying if your takeaway is that it's good to put more gun control, maybe you should reevaluate your position on gun control.
People arguing for gun control don't deny the usefulness of guns. Cars are useful too, it's a lot harder to get a car than a gun.
I legitimately haven't seen a single person upset other than someone posting a screenshot of Tim Walz doing the typical tweet of condolences
I'm outraged.... The way that healthcare companies decide who gets to live and who needs to die for profit.
It was only one CEO, that's what's outrageous. We can do better.
Weirdly, I've seen a few .ml usernames complaining about how killing people is always evil, and that we're evil for glorifying it
I assume those people are trolls of the contrarian category.
People are too thrilled to be upset by trolling attempts about the topic. That's actually impressive.
You got to read more of the sentence:
The outrage isn't about the killing. The outrage is about the health insurers. The killing is just the spark that got us all to talk about it.
Reading? On the internet? What is this, Barnes and Noble?
This is likely in reference to a book that is highly critical of the medical insurance field called “Delay, Deny Defend”. Except here, the shooter actually did depose the CEO for his company’s actions.
"But guys, he could have had some other motive! We just dOn'T kNoW!!!!1!one!!!"
So, about that.
We don't know what words were written on all the ammo he didn't fire, so maybe it was sheer coincidence.
Just reach into the old grab-bag of engraved bullets I keep for just the occasion.
Motive roulette
If he was shtupping your wife, what better way to direct suspicion away from you than to play into the angle that would give every American not on the Forbes list a motive?
I hope they never catch him.
It sure would be a shame if the 99% of New York state saw and heard nothing of interest about this guy.
What guy? The CEO was carrying the gun and tripped, shooting himself in the back. We all saw the video.
I mean if Jan 6 was peaceful... yeah... we all saw it he tripped
He tripped and fell on his knife. Six times.
He seems smart. He's probably long gone by now.
Probably from out of state, not acting alone. He ran, got on a bike, probably to a waiting car to leave the city immediately. I heard he’s in Canada now.
From what I am seeing on a few platforms, there may not be much help from the public.
Honestly the best calling card I've seen in a while. I can see this being a motto among the resistance.
Huh... Must be on some social media for CEOs by CEOs or something because I haven't seen any outrage. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Reading the article, it's either a poor choice of words on the part of the AP journalist, or a deliberate choice of words to muddy the situation when this inevitably gets compressed into a short reference memory as the news cycle moves on.
What's described is very much the outrage expressed against insurance practices re: medical care, part of the celebration of this guy's death.
If they catch this guy he will never see trial. No way they’d risk him getting up on the stand, and even less likely they’d want to try their luck getting twelve people to convict. He’ll go down in a hail of gunfire or get Epstein’d
Defendants don’t get up on the stand if they want any chance of a not guilt verdict.
It’s not so unlikely. It ought to be, but it isn’t.
You think they’re willing to take the chance that the guy who assassinated a CEO with bullets with messages on them wouldn’t take the stand to deliver a monologue?
Yes. I think your perspective is through Hollywood-tinted glasses. When was the last time something like that happened in real life and actually had devastating effects on the ruling class?
I hope they don't catch him.
Chances are they find someone they can pass off as him and then take him out publicly enough that everyone just accepts that it must've been the guy.
Probably not the right call if this guy was planning to go vigilante and wasn't just upset at a loss he had to endure specifically because of united.
That’ll create a martyr for sure.
They'll just put some magic evidence on his web history.
All I've seen is celebration and laughter.
There's been no outrage. Maybe from a few bootlickers. But nobody who's opinion you should respect.
Hey, I'm outraged!
Outraged at the fact that the system is so fucking shitty someone felt the need to do this in retaliation.
The pigs hunting this soldier need to take note. There's a lot of angry, sick, and wronged people in the world, that these rich fucks are doing the evils to. We execute a CEO in broad daylight and within days another insurer planned to limit anesthesia. The board of directors will be getting executed next, the pigs need to get their heads out of their asses and realize who's side their on. They are currently standing where the enemy of the people stands. It's a dangerous place, and we are hungry.
They backed down on the anesthesia thing. They got scared.
Give them a month. They will put it back.
They absolutely will, as soon as the media spotlight is off them. Or, they’ll come up with an alternative cut to the health plans that’s even more cruel and profitable. It is what the system demands.
Which is where 99% of their membership seeks care, and now will not have this issue.
But yeah this sucks for the anesthesiologists at say, Mass General when someone from CT comes up to Boston for something complicated.
This is what is happening now that they can no longer squeeze groups or individuals for more cost share, for more premiums. No one can afford it. Then they try to get creative cutting services.
Unless you're the guy who pulled the trigger or helped him in some way, stop saying "we" while sitting safely behind your keyboard
I'm guessing he didn't consider the LIFO nature of a clip when loading, and "depose" is his answer to "delay, deny, defend". So he put depose, defend, and deny into the CEO in that order
I think you're right. I'm sure it was loaded with delay, deny, defend, depose.
Kinda ironic he didn't have time to shoot "delay" when you think about it.
Interestingly, NYT doesn't mention the word "depose" in any of their articles on the matter.
I thought you had to be wrong but I just checked and you’re right. They all mention “‘delay’, ‘deny’, and other words”. The only article published by The NY Times that included “depose” on the casings was in an opinion piece by Zaynep Tufekci published today that referenced the AP News articles.
Thanks for checking. I really thought I had to be wrong too. :/
Was he using an Aperture Science designed gun, or did AP just use a stock photo for the article?
He was using a suppressor that looks like it wasn't installed correctly and the gun jammed multiple times. Clearing those jams resulted in several unfired rounds being ejected onto the ground.
Just screwing a can onto a threaded barrel on a tilt-barrel automatic can keep the gun from cycling properly. You often need to have a special adapter between the barrel and the supressor for it to operate.
Some talking head said he thought it might be a Station Six-9
Oh wow. I’ve never handled a suppressor myself, thought you just spun it onto a threaded barrel.
You can get away with that on guns without tilting barrels or moving slides most of the time. But between the weight of the supressor and possible interference with moving parts it can be an issue with something like a Glock.
You can usually get them installed in such a way. When I took my concealed weapons class in Florida years ago they handed us an old browning with a silencer like you speak of. They wanted to make sure everyone had at least fired a gun before giving them clearance to get a permit to hide one and carry it around in public with you everywhere. (Which you are not actually required to have ever fired a weapon before to acquire). At the time that one evening class I took would permit someone to carry concealed in 37 states.... That's how lax our gun laws are.
Suppressors have much stricter requirements in most states though. Although many people including the truck I drove behind earlier today seem to think those laws should be more lax.
It's almost like these folks are the real "enemy from within" (Trump's words, not mine) the whole time.
Always have been 🧑🚀🔫
So, he apparently wanted it read. So, it could either be a true motive or a setup to cover other reasons.