I wouldn't go so far as to call it toxic waste but fuck anyone pouring industrial chemicals into a storm drain. That's embarrassing for such a wealthy company.
The liquid, which the Palo Alto Fire Department has deemed to be a nonhazardous mixture of borax, lye (also called sodium hydroxide) and green dye, spilled out of the Tesla office at 1501 Page Mill Road onto Hanover Street.
You don't want concentrated lye, but diluted lye is safe enough to make soap. My question, and I'm not the only one asking in this thread, is- is a mixture of borax and lye a good coolant for a supercomputer?
I guess you could argue that the green is so they would recognize a coolant leak...
Borax is used for flushing large coolant systems. The green dye is probably to find leaks or identify when the flush has cleared out any residual coolant.
The lye concentration used to make soap is rather nasty if it gets on your skin and you don't deal with it immediately.
Source: I've made a lot of soap from scratch.
The liquid, which the Palo Alto Fire Department has deemed to be a nonhazardous mixture of borax, lye (also called sodium hydroxide) and green dye,
One of the workers told Hedblom that the liquid was a coolant. That’s also what the fire department told the Governor’s Office of Emergency Services, which wrote in its Oct. 18 spill report that the liquid was “used for the chiller system to cool the Tesla Artificial Intelligence Supercomputer.”
“The Palo Alto Fire Department recovered approximately 550 gallons of the mixture from the storm drain,” the report said. “The incident occurred while Tesla personnel were draining the system.”
That's quite a liquid-cooled computer that they've got going on.
The article mentions that they said the initial spill was 12 gallons but then mixed with water in the drain, which is where the 550 gallon number comes from. That's coming from Tesla, so it might be them trying to downplay the incident, so take it with a grain of salt. But it does seem to make more sense than a single computer needing 550 gallons of coolant.
I suspect it was the entire building's chiller in which that really isn't that much. When you consider the run of pipes depending on where the outdoor tower is.
“The Palo Alto Fire Department recovered approximately 550 gallons of the mixture from the storm drain,” the report said. “The incident occurred while Tesla personnel were draining the system.”
Elon probably told them to dump the coolant in the street because he thought it would be a very funny joke. And probably also told them to put the green dye in first.
Sounds like the sort of thing he would think is hilariously funny.
Lye and oil makes soap, not lye and borax. The key in all these recipes is lye and oils, not lye and borax for anyone who isn't going to click on the link and start mixing these chemicals. Lye can be real nasty if you don't know how to handle it. It's one of those chemicals where the safety precautions are there for a reason, not because it's normal practice.
could have been a kind of additive maybe? but then it won't be a lot of it. borax forms a gel or at least high viscosity solution when mixed with glycols so both can't be used at the same time as a coolant
Dye might be fluorescein, it fluoresces under UV (duh) could be useful in checking what's this thing
It's possible they didn't properly treat the liquid they were using as coolant and needed the lye and borax to remove scaling and that it actually wasn't the coolant itself. That would also explain not having the proper permits for storing the chemicals if they were just being used for cleaning. Though wouldn't be surprised if they were then just going to dump it down the drain anyway...
It continued into a stream where it didn't touch natural areas.
What a bizarre double-think sentence.
"It's beyond the environment. There's nothing out there! All there is sea, and birds, and fish. And 20,000 tons of crude oil. And a fire. And the front of the ship that fell off. But there's nothing else out there. It's a complete void!"
Climate change is a massive point of discussion for sustainable living on this planet. Musk being an entrepreneur with the largest net worth doesn't care for the safety measures in his Tesla plant resulting in leakage.
Really. Someone spills a few gallons of nonhazardous cleaning fluid on a street, and this becomes a highly-upvoted article with dozens of comments on a global news community?
Tesla broke the law on storing hazardous materials and as a result spilled 550 gallons of mildly dangerous cleaning fluid onto a public street.
It's not a national news story, you're right, but it's also not nothing. Mostly it's just interesting as one more tidbit of information about how they do things.
And this is fundamentally my point here. This is a trivial little story that at most warrants a paragraph in a local newspaper somewhere. Big companies have little spills of random stuff all the time. But since this particular company is the current hot target for Internet rage, its clickbait potential is vast and people are eager to dive in to it for their Two Minutes Hate.
If people really want a meaningful story about Tesla's bad environmental practices or safety procedures or whatever to get angry about, do a little legwork to find some actually meaningful incident or perhaps some kind of study to determine larger scale patterns. The focus on this particular news item should be embarassing for Tesla opponents. Is this really all that it takes? Or all that they can find?
People can post whatever they want. Communities can be about whatever they want. It just looks pathetic when they post stuff like this as if it was significant news.
The headline saying “gallons” doesn’t really imply “550 gallons“ which was the actual amount. That’s a lot of pollution.
You know those giant white plastic cube storage tanks that hold 1000L? They dumped the equivalent of two of those full of toxic waste.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it toxic waste but fuck anyone pouring industrial chemicals into a storm drain. That's embarrassing for such a wealthy company.
Well, 12 gallons, contaminating 500 that they pumped out.
A better way to put it would to say quarter ton, since that's what it really is
If it's weight is anything like water, 550 gallons would weigh near 2.5 tons
Oh, that's right! I forgot about volume!
Elon does not care about laws and it's been shown over and over that he doesn't have to.
He obviously does, he's not storing it anymore after spilling it out now is he?
When the penalty is a fine, it isn't a penalty to the rich.
"Cost of doing business."
You don't want concentrated lye, but diluted lye is safe enough to make soap. My question, and I'm not the only one asking in this thread, is- is a mixture of borax and lye a good coolant for a supercomputer?
I guess you could argue that the green is so they would recognize a coolant leak...
Borax is used for flushing large coolant systems. The green dye is probably to find leaks or identify when the flush has cleared out any residual coolant.
Ah, that makes more sense then.
But lye as well?
Edit: never mind, that discussion says also lye.
They use this mixture at my work as well. Flushing out large sub freezing cooling systems. We don't dump it out on the street though.
If it's anything like the places I work, they specifically tell you to be very careful about what you wash away.
The lye concentration used to make soap is rather nasty if it gets on your skin and you don't deal with it immediately. Source: I've made a lot of soap from scratch.
Okay, now I have more "why" questions.
Water cooling for a set of computers. Additives prevent bacteria growth.
That's quite a liquid-cooled computer that they've got going on.
The article mentions that they said the initial spill was 12 gallons but then mixed with water in the drain, which is where the 550 gallon number comes from. That's coming from Tesla, so it might be them trying to downplay the incident, so take it with a grain of salt. But it does seem to make more sense than a single computer needing 550 gallons of coolant.
Well... it's air-cooled now.
I suspect it was the entire building's chiller in which that really isn't that much. When you consider the run of pipes depending on where the outdoor tower is.
Put Lonnie in jail, ffs.
Elon probably told them to dump the coolant in the street because he thought it would be a very funny joke. And probably also told them to put the green dye in first.
Sounds like the sort of thing he would think is hilariously funny.
Is lye a common thing for people to use as coolant? I’m not saying it’s not, I’ve just never heard of it.
Borax and lye are both cleaning agents.
That's what I thought, but Tesla is claiming that it was coolant.
They're cleaning agents individually; I can't speak to what they are when combined.
Looks like they are also a cleaning product when combined.
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1992/10/04/lye-soap-recipes-and-warnings/
But of course that doesn't necessarily mean it can't also be used as a coolant.
From what I understand, neutrino detectors involve what is essentially a swimming pool full of dish soap.
That's why Teslas are expensive and shitty. They're diverting effort and funds to neutrino detection.
Lye and oil makes soap, not lye and borax. The key in all these recipes is lye and oils, not lye and borax for anyone who isn't going to click on the link and start mixing these chemicals. Lye can be real nasty if you don't know how to handle it. It's one of those chemicals where the safety precautions are there for a reason, not because it's normal practice.
Lye and rich lady fat if one believes Tyler Durdon
To be fair, the article does start with similar warnings.
Presumably they were cleaning the coolant lines, same as flushing a vehicle radiator
mildly concentrated sodium hydroxide solutions would corrode the living fuck out of aluminum pretty quickly (https://www.calpaclab.com/aluminum-chemical-compatibility-chart/), especially when hot and circulating, so no
could have been a kind of additive maybe? but then it won't be a lot of it. borax forms a gel or at least high viscosity solution when mixed with glycols so both can't be used at the same time as a coolant
Dye might be fluorescein, it fluoresces under UV (duh) could be useful in checking what's this thing
It kind of sounds like they told some junior exec to come up with a quick excuse because whatever they were actually doing was a lot worse.
i have no idea what they were cooking but it's not coolant, unless temperature there never drops below 0C
I think @ChicoSuave above figured it out. It was used to flush the coolant.
It's possible they didn't properly treat the liquid they were using as coolant and needed the lye and borax to remove scaling and that it actually wasn't the coolant itself. That would also explain not having the proper permits for storing the chemicals if they were just being used for cleaning. Though wouldn't be surprised if they were then just going to dump it down the drain anyway...
I have absolutely no idea.
It continued into a stream where it didn't touch natural areas.
What a bizarre double-think sentence.
"It's beyond the environment. There's nothing out there! All there is sea, and birds, and fish. And 20,000 tons of crude oil. And a fire. And the front of the ship that fell off. But there's nothing else out there. It's a complete void!"
Tesla out here trying to kill the Toons from ToonTown!
Musk spewing bile, as usual.
This is why you dont liquid cool your stuff without proper maintenance
𝙇𝙖𝙪𝙜𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙤𝙪𝙩 𝙡𝙤𝙪𝙙 𝙗𝙧𝙪𝙝... 𝙈𝙪𝙨𝙠 𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚 𝙖𝙣 𝙚𝙭𝙖𝙢𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙝𝙚 𝙙𝙤𝙚𝙨𝙣'𝙩 𝙜𝙞𝙫𝙚 𝙗𝙖𝙩𝙨 𝙚𝙮𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 „𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙘𝙚𝙥𝙩 𝙤𝙛 𝙘𝙡𝙞𝙢𝙖𝙩𝙚 𝙘𝙝𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚“
I keep reading this and can’t figure out exactly what it means.
Am you broke me?
Climate change is a massive point of discussion for sustainable living on this planet. Musk being an entrepreneur with the largest net worth doesn't care for the safety measures in his Tesla plant resulting in leakage.
Is
give bats eyea saying I’m too American to know?Yus bruh.... It's a saying kinda means I don't care about it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can%27t_Do_That_on_Television
I don't know.
Sounds yummy
Really. Someone spills a few gallons of nonhazardous cleaning fluid on a street, and this becomes a highly-upvoted article with dozens of comments on a global news community?
Tesla broke the law on storing hazardous materials and as a result spilled 550 gallons of mildly dangerous cleaning fluid onto a public street.
It's not a national news story, you're right, but it's also not nothing. Mostly it's just interesting as one more tidbit of information about how they do things.
And this is fundamentally my point here. This is a trivial little story that at most warrants a paragraph in a local newspaper somewhere. Big companies have little spills of random stuff all the time. But since this particular company is the current hot target for Internet rage, its clickbait potential is vast and people are eager to dive in to it for their Two Minutes Hate.
If people really want a meaningful story about Tesla's bad environmental practices or safety procedures or whatever to get angry about, do a little legwork to find some actually meaningful incident or perhaps some kind of study to determine larger scale patterns. The focus on this particular news item should be embarassing for Tesla opponents. Is this really all that it takes? Or all that they can find?
I'm going to share an article about a Lemmy user who can't come to terms with the fact that it isn't up to them what other users post, next.
I'm just talking shit, your argument is valid and you're allowed to share your thoughts.
People can post whatever they want. Communities can be about whatever they want. It just looks pathetic when they post stuff like this as if it was significant news.
If only people cared about what you think as much as you seem to.
Wait, this comment is satire right? Please?