I know what you're saying. That the environment that gave us Trump would still exist. Sure. All the issues, both illegitimate (white resentment, racism, propaganda) and legitimate (wealth disparity, disillusioning political figures, late stage capitalistic despair), would still remain.
But that also gives too little importance to Trump's unique place in this. He is a uniquely cynical, sociopathic trigger that is exploiting this populist anger, while being so incompetent that he fails to solve any of those issues underlying it.
He thus is simultaneously perpetuating those issues, while feeding off of them - both creating and burning the fuel of populist anger. DeSantis, Vance, Hawley, all the other toe-headed power-simps who would step in to take his place would fail to hold that paradoxical balance for long - they think they can learn it, but Trump is built for it. That is Trump's unique skill, his singularly destructive, delusional, sociopathic egomania.
Like a wildfire - yes, when there are dry hot conditions, many things could start one. But it's also true that you may have been almost through the dry, hot season when a wildfire hits. And if you could have prevented that first fateful spark a week - maybe a day - longer, you could have avoided catastrophe and tragedy.
I think that's where we were in 2016, and we failed to contain it. It spread so far, that we were barely able to contain it in 2020. But if we can avoid it in 2024, if we can prevent Trump from sparking another wildfire, maybe the season could change.
But that also gives too little importance to Trump’s unique place in this. He is a uniquely cynical, sociopathic trigger that is exploiting this populist anger, while being so incompetent that he fails to solve any of those issues underlying it.
Nah he's just a dude. Maybe you should quit swallowing his mystique as well, it empowers the guy.
Yeah, of course he's just a dude. He's one of the least worthy dudes out there, for all the attention he's getting. He didn't justifiably earn any of that.
But nonetheless, he is a key that happens to be shaped perfectly to unlock, exploit and exacerbate populist anger. It could have been anyone else if the conditions were different, but it is uniquely him in this history. That's all I'm saying, but it a very important detail.
That was not the claim. Just that Trump news are nasty and Trump is one of the few Republicans who has enough charisma to end up in the news. If he gets voted out, there is a good chance of him never running again and fading away into the background. It means the Republicans need a new leader and whoever that is, is probably going to fail.
Anyone who thought Trump wouldn't run again completely misunderstands what motivates him. And anyone who thinks Trump will run again also misunderstands what motivates him. Trump's whole schtick is that he was cheated out of the election, but losing twice in a row sends a pretty clear message, and he'll lose the support of the party. Also, he'll be 82, and likely won't have the same fire he has today.
He's a complete narcissist, and I don't think he'll risk losing three times in a row. The next election, if it happens, would likely be a landslide (who wants to vote for a loser three times in a row?) and a massive hit to his ego. A close election gives him the opportunity to claim the election was rigged, and being able to pull that off twice is probably enough for him to save face.
The internet you remember before he came around is dead, never to return. It's not his doing, it's the complete and utter corporate takeover of the internet, and the funneling of 95% of the traffic to 4 sites. It's the algorithmic content presentation, and the curtaining of real friendship content. It's these platforms refusing to show you what you want, and only showing ads and boosted content, which is essentially an ad. The Internet is dead. Long live the Internet!
Trump isn't going away, even if he doesn't win. That's what people thought in 2020. Now that Biden's president, Trump will just disappear, right? Wrong.
And yes, I know he said that he won't run again in 2028, but I don't believe it. His cult would beg him to run again, and he'd do it.
We can all hope, and this time we're probably gonna be right.
But the Republicans aren't running out of people.
There's no reason to think Trump's end will make the bad half of America stop this push. There's a relatively good chance they'll find a sufficiently appealing new leader or puppet. If that falls, maybe you can rest and go back to casually provoking the religious right, playing catch with your rights, and still stay safe for a while. Members of the LGBT community dropping "Live and let live." in favor of "Use the right pronouns!" was a potentially fatal mistake.
While you're definitely correct that Trump isn't the last bigot who will run for president, none of them will have rhe same level of influence he did.
Trump is a literal cult leader. You have pastors like Shane Vaughn who literally call him "a messiah." He is literally worshipped. That's why he could get away with Jan 6th, that's why he'll have so many voters no matter what, it's a cult.
With the above said, the his defeat will dishearten his mkst fervent followers. I believe many of them will never be able to bring themselves to vote for another candidate, ever. Not all, but many. Republican voter enthusiasm will be at an all time low.
Following this, the infighting we already see will only get worse as would-be successors fight for the scraps that their titan left behind while others fight to leave Trumpism in the dust. Even if they manage to get a majority, they'd accomplish nothing meaningful.
Their entire plan hinges on Donald Trump's cult influence. The depend on his rabid base of supporters. If he loses this election, that goes away. The remnants will be fought over, but none of them will be able to touch the level of influence Trump himself had. His legacy will leave the Republican party fractured for decades.
The cult leaders are evangelical pastors. They'll find a new guy because it's profitable. They will herd their sheep to a new wolf.
The exploitative business types will follow for the same reasons. They only worship profit and trump literally gives them your tax money, cuts their taxes, and curates the courts to their interests.
No, it's Trump. They, Robin Bullock, Kat Kurr, all of them make prophecies about Trump. The whole fucking theology centers on Trump. He's become the lynch pin to their everything. One pastor in particular, Shane Vaugn, claims that "Trump is a messiah."
They have hitched it all to Trump. Without him, it all falls apart. They will try to pivot because they won't just give up their influence, but his second defeated will hurt their credibility. It will sow doubt. And when he eventually kicks the bucket, will, I wager most Christians only have it in themselves to wait on just one messiah to come back.
He did go away for a while, but not by choice. He was banned from Twitter, his reddit group quarantined, and news stations fucking finally decided to stop reporting on his every stupid statement
Of course he won't run again in 2028, he'll be dead. The dude looks like he's knocking on heaven's hell's door right now.
I hope he lives for 40 more years to watch himself become less and less relevant, with nazi republican losers continuing to pin their hopes on him that he is increasingly unable to deliver.
Yeah we thought that about Biden and the fascist xunt still ran again, destroying the primary, and eventually appointed one of the least popular politicians in US history in his stead.
I'm Canadian and can't vote in any American election.
I hear more about Trump than I hear about all of our politicians combined.
I just don't understand how people can get so excited all the time about this stuff. Like, being so invested in some rich assholes life that you'll commit treason and break into Congress to wander around aimlessly?
Why are you like this? Make politics boring again.
Agree with the sentiment for sure, but would also add that a lot of Americans like him, they LIKE what he said, he was heavily supported at last count. Even now he is supported substantially.
That is something many people need to think about. What happens next election? He won't be the last.
Voting him out will not remove him from your feed. You will hear about how the election was stolen again. About how his disciples tried to destroy the capitol or the white house or whatever, again. You will hear about how he was out on trial again. You will hear about whatever new crap he comes up with.
Getting rid of Trump doesn't have to solve anything. I'll still feel good to know he didn't get something he wants. That's petty, and that's fine. So is he.
It's amusing that Trump can't see that Putin will drop him as soon as his usefulness ends, just like Trump does to people who support him (Giuliani, for example).
people younger than him are already driving a lot of his public policy pronouncements, so those policies might as well be attributed directly to them. if they left diaper don to his own devices, much of his following wouldve evaporated by now save for the racial extremists.
I think there's a good chance the whole "MAGA" movement dies out in a few elections if Trump loses this round. It's not particularly popular in my area at least, and "MAGA" candidates have consistently lost the nomination for local elections because people are tired of all the BS (Trump will still win my state though because of the R). If he loses, I think it'll peter out a bit unless someone with Trump's charisma gets the nomination in 2028.
Trump voters want to talk about making towns safe, permanently removing people who cause problems or don't play along properly, and make a society where white men to a greater extent can do some kinds of horrible abuse behind closed doors with everyone knowing, most people tolerating it, and only a few authority figures able to do anything about it if they want to or are pressured to.
This person makes a great point. It's amazing how vapid and meaningless our common discourse has become. Long has it been since edifying conversation has been the norm.
Imagine thinking that once the loudest symptom of fascism is no longer visible, the decades long multibillion dollar Republican project to undemocratically seize power just goes away. That all the structural issues with America go away.
Imagine thinking that once the loudest symptom of fascism is no longer visible, the decades long multibillion dollar Republican project to undemocratically seize power just goes away.
What? You're telling me that what happened in 1933 with the business plot to overthrow the government and no one of importantance being held accountable allowed fascism to continue to grow. That is..... That actually tracks with America. We have a terrible short term memory.
As if voting trump out is going to save that shithole. Democrats are not going to install a fascist regime but don’t believe they’ll fix things. The rich will get richer while the poor get poorer (and dumber still)
The problem isn't Trump (in this case), the problem is social media. Get off social media. Find better alternatives. Even at the best of times, when are people ever having a civil conversation about art, movies, music, etc?
I don't use apps unless they allow creation of block lists. My news RSS app has loads of keywords blocked (including Trump, Harris, etc). My Lemmee block list is huge. Items like this post get through when they don't trigger my keywords, but this makes me think I really should add on "USA".
Thinking that Harris is not the same fascist as trump is very naive. all politicians are psycho murderers, or they would not be politicians in the first place
That's such a childish view. The world is not black and white, and neither are politicians. If you can't figure out the difference between Harris and Trump then I'm not sure you're mature enough to be talking about politics in the first place. You should learn nuance first.
Imagine thinking that Kamala Harris is going to do a thing to claw back the rights of women and queer people or stop murdering Palestinians when she won't even acknowledge the issues beyond pointing out that roe v wade was overturned because it makes the other side look bad and she only has to have better optics than the other side to get your vote. Nevermind that it happened under her democratic predecessor who also did nothing to stop it while she was vice president.
Imagine thinking a candidate, when their power is no longer at stake, is going to magically stop pandering to conservatives and stop taking progressive votes for granted, when they're already setting up to blame those same progressives for their campaign strategy; of abandoning their base in both messaging and policy at every possible opportunity and just being generally feckless; failing miserably.
Imagine the polls being this close against donald fucking trump who has a mountain of evidence that you can use against him, clear strategies and talking points to counter message against, a significant number of his own voters having voluntarily defected from him with no further convincing needed, and not having a single moment of introspection on your own party's initiative or lack thereof to guarantee their victory by throwing a single material bone to their left wing and engaging the working class through positive reinforcement rather than fear campaigns that disillusion voters and depress outcome all the way down the ticket.
Imagine thinking there aren't any actors seeking to negate any leverage that you have as a class by letting your candidate take your vote for granted instead of being pressured to give you anything more than the hopefully maybe bare minimum to win exactly 51% of the electoral college.
No no lets just blame voters for being irrational actors influenced by "tankie nonsense" and Russian bots that definitely only stoke one side and aren't just sowing general discord so americans will reject their class interests in favor of culture wars. That's not a convenient or shallow or played out explanation with any historical analog that suppresses engaging with logic at all, and actually is evidence that can justify only one true reality with definitely only the most genuine and non-trumpian of intentions or obvious conclusions. It's actually the most rational explanation of real true and objective reality I think.
Oh and if you disagree with me you love Trump and think he should be president again and Palestine should be wiped off the map and I will just say this over and over again in different ways of varying length instead of actually engaging with any of your arguments because for some reason I assume that saying it enough times will mean the argument is settled and I win.
There's more than a couple reasons a lot of westerners don't really see Gazans as victims, some of them aren't even racism.
Would be way easier to argue their case if October 7th didn't go the way it did.
It was just a really bad decision.
I'm personally in favor of cutting ties with Israel as well, considering they've strayed so far away from civility and are indeed killing a shitload of people. But I have very little compassion for the people of Gaza, given what they largely want and support. They want to fight and thresh and kill until one side is dead and gone, and we all know which side that will be. Everyone knows, except them.
Ah yes let's hear about genocide, it's so much better.
Nobody cares about their election spam. These people are unhinged butchers. The american mind is totally ok with the genocide they commited to the natives in america. The american mind is totally ok with genocide in the middle east. The westoids care more about Trump being bad than actual americans deed. They care about what brand of bullshit they are gonna swallow for the next four years, they dont give a fuck about the people killed by their bombs.
How will he make it worse? Biden and Harris are already committed to giving Israel everything they want. What's Trump going to do? Give them more than what they want?
History isn't going to look kindly on the people who voted for the lesser genocide. It's going to look kindly on the people who voted for no genocide.
They don't hate Trump for what he does. They hate him because he says the quiet part out loud.
The Harris genocide is preferable to the Trump genocide because Harris will express sympathy for all the people being killed while she sends more bombs over. Trump will chortle gleefully while he sends bombs over. See what a difference that makes?
The Harris genocide is preferable to the Trump genocide because Harris will express sympathy for all the people being killed while she sends more bombs over.
I hope this isn't true, but I worry that it might be.
I find myself disliking him less this time around than I did in 2016, and I don’t exactly know why. Sure, there’s a ton I disagree with him on, but that applies to both candidates. I guess I have some sympathy for the people in the center who were pushed away by the left and ended up on the right.
No need to worry though - I’m not a US citizen, so I’m not voting for him.
I don't understand this sentiment at all. I know it's a popular one - but how in the hell does instigating a violent coup attempt improve people's views of the man?
It probably would've been the same had Clinton been President. He wasn't a vaccine skeptic like much of his base, but he certainly played up the rhetoric a bit, while pushing for a rapid rollout of the vaccine.
He belittled and ignored Fauci and downplayed the severity of the virus. He refused to wear a mask which would've helped get a lot of the right wing on board with mask-wearing. He held huge rallies without taking precautions, and some attendees got sick and died as a result. (Most notably, Herman Cain.)
Jan & Feb - downplayed the virus - I'd expect any President to do that, the entire point is to reduce panic
March - declares emergency as cases rise, extends the "slow the spread" policies
April - discusses masks, emphasizing that it's optional, not mandatory (needs to say that to retain his base, it's an election year, after all); maintains travel restrictions, but recommends states relax policies
May - mentions that he uses hydroxychloroquine
June - indoor campaign rally
July - continued to downplay COVID saying it'll go away
August - encouraged social distancing
September - continued questioning effectiveness of masks
:::
Basically, he was against masks, in favor of social distancing, and urged rapid development of vaccines (Pfizer vaccine was available around the end of 2020). He took and recommended others take the vaccine as well.
It's impossible to know exactly how Clinton would've responded, but I imagine it would be quite similar, with a bit less rhetoric and perhaps a little more distancing at rallies, just given what Biden did (but it's hard to say exactly, since mask-wearing became a form of speech).
So the main difference I see between Trump and Clinton/Biden is optics, not policy. And given the death rates between states (e.g. Florida vs California), there isn't a clear difference based on the party that was in power, and differences are more easily explained by climate, population density, and demographics. So sure, you can probably point to cases where people contracted COVID at a rally or something, but in terms of policy, there doesn't seem to be much difference between left and right on the COVID response outcomes.
So all in all, I think Trump's rhetoric around COVID was terrible, but I don't think it's fair to pin those deaths on him because they likely would've happened had he lost in 2016.
You seem to be implying that is the reason I find myself disliking him less now than in 2016 which couldn't be further from the truth. That's among the most pressing arguments against him.
That's equally unfair as me saying 'I don't see how Harris supporting gender-affirming surgeries for undocumented immigrants in custody' makes people want to vote for her.
Anyone who thinks Trump is the sole problem and that him being out of the news will solve all the problems is clueless.
I know what you're saying. That the environment that gave us Trump would still exist. Sure. All the issues, both illegitimate (white resentment, racism, propaganda) and legitimate (wealth disparity, disillusioning political figures, late stage capitalistic despair), would still remain.
But that also gives too little importance to Trump's unique place in this. He is a uniquely cynical, sociopathic trigger that is exploiting this populist anger, while being so incompetent that he fails to solve any of those issues underlying it.
He thus is simultaneously perpetuating those issues, while feeding off of them - both creating and burning the fuel of populist anger. DeSantis, Vance, Hawley, all the other toe-headed power-simps who would step in to take his place would fail to hold that paradoxical balance for long - they think they can learn it, but Trump is built for it. That is Trump's unique skill, his singularly destructive, delusional, sociopathic egomania.
Like a wildfire - yes, when there are dry hot conditions, many things could start one. But it's also true that you may have been almost through the dry, hot season when a wildfire hits. And if you could have prevented that first fateful spark a week - maybe a day - longer, you could have avoided catastrophe and tragedy.
I think that's where we were in 2016, and we failed to contain it. It spread so far, that we were barely able to contain it in 2020. But if we can avoid it in 2024, if we can prevent Trump from sparking another wildfire, maybe the season could change.
Nah he's just a dude. Maybe you should quit swallowing his mystique as well, it empowers the guy.
You are detached from reality if you are unable to see what the OP describes.
It's not even hard to see at this point, the image has long been set in stark, giant, letters, imprinted on history.
But given his popularity, you are not alone in being detached from reality.
Yeah, of course he's just a dude. He's one of the least worthy dudes out there, for all the attention he's getting. He didn't justifiably earn any of that.
But nonetheless, he is a key that happens to be shaped perfectly to unlock, exploit and exacerbate populist anger. It could have been anyone else if the conditions were different, but it is uniquely him in this history. That's all I'm saying, but it a very important detail.
Also, if they think he'll just fuck off if he loses, they've not been paying any fucking attention..
I can't wait to see what he does when he loses.
That was not the claim. Just that Trump news are nasty and Trump is one of the few Republicans who has enough charisma to end up in the news. If he gets voted out, there is a good chance of him never running again and fading away into the background. It means the Republicans need a new leader and whoever that is, is probably going to fail.
By no means. That's what people thought in 2020, and look what happened.
Anyone who thought Trump wouldn't run again completely misunderstands what motivates him. And anyone who thinks Trump will run again also misunderstands what motivates him. Trump's whole schtick is that he was cheated out of the election, but losing twice in a row sends a pretty clear message, and he'll lose the support of the party. Also, he'll be 82, and likely won't have the same fire he has today.
He's a complete narcissist, and I don't think he'll risk losing three times in a row. The next election, if it happens, would likely be a landslide (who wants to vote for a loser three times in a row?) and a massive hit to his ego. A close election gives him the opportunity to claim the election was rigged, and being able to pull that off twice is probably enough for him to save face.
Trump is one problem in a world full of problems, but goddamn will it feel good to be rid of him all the same.
I almost can't remember what the internet was like without seeing his name or face every day. I miss it.
The internet you remember before he came around is dead, never to return. It's not his doing, it's the complete and utter corporate takeover of the internet, and the funneling of 95% of the traffic to 4 sites. It's the algorithmic content presentation, and the curtaining of real friendship content. It's these platforms refusing to show you what you want, and only showing ads and boosted content, which is essentially an ad. The Internet is dead. Long live the Internet!
Just post more cats. We'll get it back.
Trump isn't going away, even if he doesn't win. That's what people thought in 2020. Now that Biden's president, Trump will just disappear, right? Wrong.
And yes, I know he said that he won't run again in 2028, but I don't believe it. His cult would beg him to run again, and he'd do it.
I think he'll be either dead or not lucid enough to run personally
We can all hope, and this time we're probably gonna be right.
But the Republicans aren't running out of people.
There's no reason to think Trump's end will make the bad half of America stop this push. There's a relatively good chance they'll find a sufficiently appealing new leader or puppet. If that falls, maybe you can rest and go back to casually provoking the religious right, playing catch with your rights, and still stay safe for a while. Members of the LGBT community dropping "Live and let live." in favor of "Use the right pronouns!" was a potentially fatal mistake.
While you're definitely correct that Trump isn't the last bigot who will run for president, none of them will have rhe same level of influence he did.
Trump is a literal cult leader. You have pastors like Shane Vaughn who literally call him "a messiah." He is literally worshipped. That's why he could get away with Jan 6th, that's why he'll have so many voters no matter what, it's a cult.
With the above said, the his defeat will dishearten his mkst fervent followers. I believe many of them will never be able to bring themselves to vote for another candidate, ever. Not all, but many. Republican voter enthusiasm will be at an all time low.
Following this, the infighting we already see will only get worse as would-be successors fight for the scraps that their titan left behind while others fight to leave Trumpism in the dust. Even if they manage to get a majority, they'd accomplish nothing meaningful.
Their entire plan hinges on Donald Trump's cult influence. The depend on his rabid base of supporters. If he loses this election, that goes away. The remnants will be fought over, but none of them will be able to touch the level of influence Trump himself had. His legacy will leave the Republican party fractured for decades.
The cult leaders are evangelical pastors. They'll find a new guy because it's profitable. They will herd their sheep to a new wolf.
The exploitative business types will follow for the same reasons. They only worship profit and trump literally gives them your tax money, cuts their taxes, and curates the courts to their interests.
No, it's Trump. They, Robin Bullock, Kat Kurr, all of them make prophecies about Trump. The whole fucking theology centers on Trump. He's become the lynch pin to their everything. One pastor in particular, Shane Vaugn, claims that "Trump is a messiah."
They have hitched it all to Trump. Without him, it all falls apart. They will try to pivot because they won't just give up their influence, but his second defeated will hurt their credibility. It will sow doubt. And when he eventually kicks the bucket, will, I wager most Christians only have it in themselves to wait on just one messiah to come back.
Or in prison.
heaven'shell's door right now.Yeah, he's 78, and I doubt he'll hold up at 82.
I hope he dies soon.
I hope he lives for 40 more years to watch himself become less and less relevant, with nazi republican losers continuing to pin their hopes on him that he is increasingly unable to deliver.
I fear what they're going to come up to replace him with.
Neoconservatism is dying out. Right wing anti-liberalism is on the rise. Vance is the marshmallow tip of the spear.
He might be gone, but his cult isn't.
Cults require a charismatic figurehead. Vance doesn't have that. Without a leader, they'll fall into infighting and purity tests.
Who said anything about Vance? Ron DeSantis is right there waiting to take the reins.
Ron DeSantis has the charisma of a wet blanket. He doesn't stand a chance.
The nazis pinned so much of their cult on his engorged, dying pus sac of a body that they may lose a substantial amount of steam if he loses.
A loss of steam that needs to be aggressively and ruthlessly leveraged to undo and bolster against as much of their nazi bullshit as humanly possible.
bold of you to assume they wouldn't just instantly pivot to the next fascist in line like Ron DeSantis if he went completely out of commission.
even bolder of you to assume they would care if he lost the election. after all, they didn't the first time
If he doesn't end up in prison or the psych ward he'll be too old to "run" again.
Yeah we thought that about Biden and the fascist xunt still ran again, destroying the primary, and eventually appointed one of the least popular politicians in US history in his stead.
Lol what?
Is biden the fascist now to whitewash trump?
Both are fascist. The guy commiting genocide will never not be a fascist, sorry.
Oh no a pro trumper. Goodbye!
they said both candidates are facist, that doesnt mean they are pro-trump?
Both-siders are usually Trumpers or Russian Trolls trying to stir up shit.
I hope you cultists get what you vote for others.
Cunts
I'm Canadian and can't vote in any American election.
I hear more about Trump than I hear about all of our politicians combined.
I just don't understand how people can get so excited all the time about this stuff. Like, being so invested in some rich assholes life that you'll commit treason and break into Congress to wander around aimlessly?
Why are you like this? Make politics boring again.
Please execute him for treason like they would have any person of color in his place.
Four options:
I don't expect him to live a full term even if he's not assassinated, and Vance is a fascist without dementia.
Arsearseinated.
Fucking ROTFLcopter. Yeah right.
Even if he loses again, I'm sure we'll be dealing with this piece of shit until the fucker dies. Then we'll have to deal with a new piece of shit. 😮💨
And every election, it'll be saving the world from fascism so we have to vote for Democrats, no matter how far to the right they sprint.
Agree with the sentiment for sure, but would also add that a lot of Americans like him, they LIKE what he said, he was heavily supported at last count. Even now he is supported substantially.
That is something many people need to think about. What happens next election? He won't be the last.
I hope you're right.
To the people complaining about US politics overshadowing all other discussions. I too wish US politics were unremarkable.
i'm doing my part!
Voting him out will not remove him from your feed. You will hear about how the election was stolen again. About how his disciples tried to destroy the capitol or the white house or whatever, again. You will hear about how he was out on trial again. You will hear about whatever new crap he comes up with.
Agreed.
Yeah that will only be popcorn time.
And that's the mod. How fucking biased are you lmao
I hope you gets thrown in jail for supporting extermination.
Maybe if you guys didnt put yeltsin in place you wouldnt have russian interference now. Just saying
lmao
“Dear
USAconservatives…”As if Trump is a source of all problems in the world
Getting rid of Trump doesn't have to solve anything. I'll still feel good to know he didn't get something he wants. That's petty, and that's fine. So is he.
Getting rid of Trump is a chore, not a victory!
And yet, when it happens, I still plan to celebrate.
If I learned something from psychotherapy, it's that I should congratulate myself on doing chores
That's the real reason not to re-elect Trump, there's no way he'll be relevant again. I mean fuck do you think he'd even alive to run in 2028.
sadly, voting him out does not erase him.
I was thinking, "Wait, we can vote him out of existence?"
if we cannot incarcerate, exile him. let him go crying back to putin and see how accepted hell be
It's amusing that Trump can't see that Putin will drop him as soon as his usefulness ends, just like Trump does to people who support him (Giuliani, for example).
i hope thats what happens to him when he gets there.
We would be happy to see him running from prison.
he would still be eligible to assume the office from there so no thanks
I think it would work reasonably well, because losing twice in a row sends a pretty clear message.
Someone younger than him will pick up the torch though, so his ideas will unfortunately live on.
people younger than him are already driving a lot of his public policy pronouncements, so those policies might as well be attributed directly to them. if they left diaper don to his own devices, much of his following wouldve evaporated by now save for the racial extremists.
I think there's a good chance the whole "MAGA" movement dies out in a few elections if Trump loses this round. It's not particularly popular in my area at least, and "MAGA" candidates have consistently lost the nomination for local elections because people are tired of all the BS (Trump will still win my state though because of the R). If he loses, I think it'll peter out a bit unless someone with Trump's charisma gets the nomination in 2028.
Trump voters want to talk about making towns safe, permanently removing people who cause problems or don't play along properly, and make a society where white men to a greater extent can do some kinds of horrible abuse behind closed doors with everyone knowing, most people tolerating it, and only a few authority figures able to do anything about it if they want to or are pressured to.
This person makes a great point. It's amazing how vapid and meaningless our common discourse has become. Long has it been since edifying conversation has been the norm.
Peak liberalism.
Imagine thinking that once the loudest symptom of fascism is no longer visible, the decades long multibillion dollar Republican project to undemocratically seize power just goes away. That all the structural issues with America go away.
Big “We want to go back to brunch” energy.
What? You're telling me that what happened in 1933 with the business plot to overthrow the government and no one of importantance being held accountable allowed fascism to continue to grow. That is..... That actually tracks with America. We have a terrible short term memory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Tbh, my wife and I used to have a monthly brunch with a gay couple-friends once a month and we haven't done that since like 2019.
I do want to go back to brunch. But that's besides the point.
As if voting trump out is going to save that shithole. Democrats are not going to install a fascist regime but don’t believe they’ll fix things. The rich will get richer while the poor get poorer (and dumber still)
Step by step riodoro.
Even outside of usa
You're a foreign actor, trying to influence the elections. Very bad. Much evil.
is this your alt
The problem isn't Trump (in this case), the problem is social media. Get off social media. Find better alternatives. Even at the best of times, when are people ever having a civil conversation about art, movies, music, etc?
I don't use apps unless they allow creation of block lists. My news RSS app has loads of keywords blocked (including Trump, Harris, etc). My Lemmee block list is huge. Items like this post get through when they don't trigger my keywords, but this makes me think I really should add on "USA".
lol no: Trump will keep running until he dies and Ds will keep using him as a bogeyman
Thinking that Harris is not the same fascist as trump is very naive. all politicians are psycho murderers, or they would not be politicians in the first place
That's such a childish view. The world is not black and white, and neither are politicians. If you can't figure out the difference between Harris and Trump then I'm not sure you're mature enough to be talking about politics in the first place. You should learn nuance first.
The internet is owned by the US.
Get over it.
'MURICAHHH
Don't care, still voting for albonese.
Imagine having peace of mind while your team promotes genocide.
Peak liberal privilege.
Imagine thinking that Kamala Harris is going to do a thing to claw back the rights of women and queer people or stop murdering Palestinians when she won't even acknowledge the issues beyond pointing out that roe v wade was overturned because it makes the other side look bad and she only has to have better optics than the other side to get your vote. Nevermind that it happened under her democratic predecessor who also did nothing to stop it while she was vice president.
Imagine thinking a candidate, when their power is no longer at stake, is going to magically stop pandering to conservatives and stop taking progressive votes for granted, when they're already setting up to blame those same progressives for their campaign strategy; of abandoning their base in both messaging and policy at every possible opportunity and just being generally feckless; failing miserably.
Imagine the polls being this close against donald fucking trump who has a mountain of evidence that you can use against him, clear strategies and talking points to counter message against, a significant number of his own voters having voluntarily defected from him with no further convincing needed, and not having a single moment of introspection on your own party's initiative or lack thereof to guarantee their victory by throwing a single material bone to their left wing and engaging the working class through positive reinforcement rather than fear campaigns that disillusion voters and depress outcome all the way down the ticket.
Imagine thinking there aren't any actors seeking to negate any leverage that you have as a class by letting your candidate take your vote for granted instead of being pressured to give you anything more than the hopefully maybe bare minimum to win exactly 51% of the electoral college.
No no lets just blame voters for being irrational actors influenced by "tankie nonsense" and Russian bots that definitely only stoke one side and aren't just sowing general discord so americans will reject their class interests in favor of culture wars. That's not a convenient or shallow or played out explanation with any historical analog that suppresses engaging with logic at all, and actually is evidence that can justify only one true reality with definitely only the most genuine and non-trumpian of intentions or obvious conclusions. It's actually the most rational explanation of real true and objective reality I think.
Oh and if you disagree with me you love Trump and think he should be president again and Palestine should be wiped off the map and I will just say this over and over again in different ways of varying length instead of actually engaging with any of your arguments because for some reason I assume that saying it enough times will mean the argument is settled and I win.
When you find yourself saying words like "the less genocidal option", you should stop and think what brought you here.
Don't vote for less genocide. Vote for no genocide. Vote Stein.
It's not one team. It's not even both teams. All of America is built on genocide and slavery.
Imagine not having peace of mind because must spew nonsense on Lemmy...
The last 10 years have been really mask-off for both parties.
There's more than a couple reasons a lot of westerners don't really see Gazans as victims, some of them aren't even racism.
Would be way easier to argue their case if October 7th didn't go the way it did.
It was just a really bad decision.
I'm personally in favor of cutting ties with Israel as well, considering they've strayed so far away from civility and are indeed killing a shitload of people. But I have very little compassion for the people of Gaza, given what they largely want and support. They want to fight and thresh and kill until one side is dead and gone, and we all know which side that will be. Everyone knows, except them.
Hamas made that decision, not the Palestinian people. Just like the executive branch is choosing to send over more weapons, not the US people.
Ah yes let's hear about genocide, it's so much better.
Nobody cares about their election spam. These people are unhinged butchers. The american mind is totally ok with the genocide they commited to the natives in america. The american mind is totally ok with genocide in the middle east. The westoids care more about Trump being bad than actual americans deed. They care about what brand of bullshit they are gonna swallow for the next four years, they dont give a fuck about the people killed by their bombs.
If you think he'll make genocide anything but worse, you should probably stop huffing spray paint or get your carbon monoxide detectors checked.
How will he make it worse? Biden and Harris are already committed to giving Israel everything they want. What's Trump going to do? Give them more than what they want?
History isn't going to look kindly on the people who voted for the lesser genocide. It's going to look kindly on the people who voted for no genocide.
They don't hate Trump for what he does. They hate him because he says the quiet part out loud.
The Harris genocide is preferable to the Trump genocide because Harris will express sympathy for all the people being killed while she sends more bombs over. Trump will chortle gleefully while he sends bombs over. See what a difference that makes?
I hope this isn't true, but I worry that it might be.
I find myself disliking him less this time around than I did in 2016, and I don’t exactly know why. Sure, there’s a ton I disagree with him on, but that applies to both candidates. I guess I have some sympathy for the people in the center who were pushed away by the left and ended up on the right.
No need to worry though - I’m not a US citizen, so I’m not voting for him.
I don't understand this sentiment at all. I know it's a popular one - but how in the hell does instigating a violent coup attempt improve people's views of the man?
The coup was bad, yes, but don't forget the hundreds of thousands dead from COVID. Trump has even less plausible deniability for that.
It probably would've been the same had Clinton been President. He wasn't a vaccine skeptic like much of his base, but he certainly played up the rhetoric a bit, while pushing for a rapid rollout of the vaccine.
He belittled and ignored Fauci and downplayed the severity of the virus. He refused to wear a mask which would've helped get a lot of the right wing on board with mask-wearing. He held huge rallies without taking precautions, and some attendees got sick and died as a result. (Most notably, Herman Cain.)
Sure, but none of that has anything to do with policy, nor do I think him wearing a mask would do all that much to get his base on board.
::: spoiler His actual public actions Source:
Basically, he was against masks, in favor of social distancing, and urged rapid development of vaccines (Pfizer vaccine was available around the end of 2020). He took and recommended others take the vaccine as well.
It's impossible to know exactly how Clinton would've responded, but I imagine it would be quite similar, with a bit less rhetoric and perhaps a little more distancing at rallies, just given what Biden did (but it's hard to say exactly, since mask-wearing became a form of speech).
So the main difference I see between Trump and Clinton/Biden is optics, not policy. And given the death rates between states (e.g. Florida vs California), there isn't a clear difference based on the party that was in power, and differences are more easily explained by climate, population density, and demographics. So sure, you can probably point to cases where people contracted COVID at a rally or something, but in terms of policy, there doesn't seem to be much difference between left and right on the COVID response outcomes.
So all in all, I think Trump's rhetoric around COVID was terrible, but I don't think it's fair to pin those deaths on him because they likely would've happened had he lost in 2016.
You seem to be implying that is the reason I find myself disliking him less now than in 2016 which couldn't be further from the truth. That's among the most pressing arguments against him.
That's equally unfair as me saying 'I don't see how Harris supporting gender-affirming surgeries for undocumented immigrants in custody' makes people want to vote for her.
Shouldn't that be a disqualifying factor?
Sure but that doesn't really change anything. I don't think he was fit for the job to begin with.