I love how often "we have no idea how they did it!" and "they couldn't possibly do something this sophisticated!" turns into "we know how, when, where they got the materials and the name of the project foreman" when you just ask an archeologist.
Even when archaeologists don’t have that level of detail, they can still confidently tell you that people don’t really change. If we can imagine something now, they could most likely imagine the same thing a thousand years ago.
For example, you know what’s an incredibly common thing to find on a dig? Dildos. Phallic stuff is everywhere, and when you find a well-polished, life-sized clay dick, it’s pretty clear what it was used for. The Greeks had devices that were essentially computers that could predict celestial movements. Running water and indoor plumbing was relatively common in the ancient world.
We’re so egotistical to think that humans in the past were somehow incapable of thinking, planning, or building at our level. And we convince ourselves that we’re better than them because we have all this fancy stuff No, their brains were just as complex and capable, they just didn’t have access to the same kinds of tools that we do.
For example, you know what’s an incredibly common thing to find on a dig? Dildos. Phallic stuff is everywhere, and when you find a well-polished, life-sized clay dick, it’s pretty clear what it was used for
I'm just going to imagine that they were using it to slap politicians in the face with dildos. Because something about roman senators getting slapped with a clay horsecock makes me laugh.
This is so true, mostly because we are spoiled by growing up with modern tools. We are many generations of tools separated from our roots. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
On the other hand, if an EMP took out the grid and CAD disappeared, you can be damn sure engineers amongst us would be bashing rocks together and figure a lot of it out pretty quickly.
We will brute force anything as a species if we need to, we just mostly don't need to at the moment, and time is money.
i find it weird that people are latching onto the concept of it being like racist or xenophobic, and there's definitely room to discuss that about it. But i can't help but feel like we're talking about a dumbass with a netflix show, shouldn't we apply occam's razor here?
I feel like the obvious answer here is that bro is a dumbass, made up a conspiracy, and is using it to make money. Granted i also don't know much about his history, maybe he does a little racism in his spare time idk.
maybe? I don't know anything about graham hancock, is the racism accusation literally just coming from his ancient apocalypse shit or is this like a predefined established behavior of the dude?
it could be, if they were just a well known racist or something, like i said i know nothing about this guy so that seems like a weird jump to make when the very obvious and clear answer is that it's for money.
Like in my mind, there's one of two things happening:
this is a really complex result of subtle/subconscious racism which is leading to him latching onto conspiracies specifically surrounding a thing that he is not educated in at all, and then lying and making shit up about it, to the point of literal conspiracy theories. While also simultaneously being able to make a netflix series on it, which likely pays him a good chunk of money.
OR
this is just a way for him to make money because he can't do science, and doesn't want to do anything else. (and also maybe some public perception, i assume he is somewhat well known previously though)
Yeah, that has more to do with American social issues and lack of government support for the general population. Water engineering is expensive no matter where or when you are, and America is huuuge.
Plumbing was common in the ancient world in the Near East, Middle East, Mediterranean (Greece and Rome), and really wherever there were people. Keep in mind if you ask two different archaeologists, you'll get two slightly different answers, but it's pretty common knowledge that running water is not a modern invention.
Some sources (only a quick search, I don't have access to all the academic journals where you'd find the good stuff):
A system of ancient ceramic water pipes, the oldest ever unearthed in China, shows that neolithic people were capable of complex engineering feats without the need for a centralised state authority, finds a new study by UCL researchers.
this would be residential, if we're just talking "indoor plumbing" than i would assume it doesn't have to include residential spaces, and probably applies to things like public baths, and bathrooms/latrines or whatever for example.
My cousin couldn't understand how I bought groceries after I sold my car. After telling him I walked three blocks to the store he asked how I bought groceries in winter. I told him I put on a coat and boots and walk three blocks to the store.
One of my carless kin! There are dozens of us!! The number of times people have assumed I can't go somewhere "because it's raining" and I'm just like, I have a jacket and an umbrella! But what if you're biking?? Um, I have a jacket, a backpack cover and leggings and sometimes... if I'm just heading home to a hot shower and a change of clothes, I just get soaking wet! Like absolutely sodden! NBD! And if I'm heading somewhere without the option of a change of clothes, I bus there and that leads to a whole other issue of "But that must take ssooo long!?!" Yeah sure, a bit longer, but I can relax, pop on some headphones, set google maps to tell me when I'm near my stop, watch/listen to something and let the driver worry about the driving!
It actually pisses me off to no end when people put their plastic jug of milk into a plastic bag. Like, the jug is heavy enough that the bag will never hold it, just fucking carry it like a normal person
I know it's a meme but can somebody set me straight? I swear I read somewhere that this narrative started with the research community saying, essentially, "we know a number of ways in which they might have achieved this feat but we aren't sure which one they used," but the entertainment/conspiracy communities heard "there is no explanation for how these people were able to achieve this feat."
It started with "we have no idea how they did it". Then over time it morphed into "we have several hypotheses but don't know if it any of those is realistic". The current state of things is still there regarding the construction technique itself.
In the meantime the village where construction workers lived has been found. Now we know the profile or people who built the pyramids, how they lived and what they ate. Even some details about work organization.
All of this still didn't propagate into the popular culture which is still stuck in the 1980s regarding pyramid knowledge.
Of course! Because otherwise it would mean all the mystique is gone! And if the mistique is gone, people can't imagine they're supposed to be starship landing pads!
Or lay-line powered aura cleansing structures.
Or part of an ancient technology global warning system.
Or a physical star chart pointing to the origins of the Egyptians.
Or hydrogen fusion power generators.
Or piezoelectric resonance generators.
Or... Some... Other things I probably forgot about. But it's certainly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, NOT a tomb of some egotistical man that believed himself a god on the Earth!
i would really appreciate it if a stats/math nerd would put together a short piece on how "statistically it only makes sense if the Egyptians built a pyramid, this is the most logical and likely outcome"
i feel like you could argue that statistically, shapes that are to be built by humans, will inevitably approach the shape of a pyramid.
Turns out, if you build something that isn't a bunch of stones in an organized stack, it won't last thousands of years like the organized stone stacks.
this is true, regardless, i'm still sure it's somewhat relevant. human societies have built a lot of large structures, but the pyramids are some of the largest ever.
Take a handful of sand. Turn your first perpendicular to the ground and let it fall slowly. What shape does it form? It's one of the most stable shapes you can make.
if you build a literal tower there are two primary issues: how do you get things up to the top, and 2, it will fall over because of gravity and or wind if you aren't careful. (or just the ground being too soft to support it)
the pyramid solves basically all of these problems.
The same thing with things like Stonehenge. I liked the theory that said these types of constructions are the result of the prehistoric version of Burning Man, where they built it just because they could as an art installation.
Well considering they rebuilt Stonehenge in the 1950s its possible the site is totally wrong too. Its possible it should look more like the Callanish stones.
Actually, this isn't that hard given enough slaves and beasts of burden like camels.
Each stone was 2.5 tons (5000lbs) on average and the average human male can pull 500 lbs easily. That means with decent friction elimination (rolling logs, water, sand etc.) it would only take 10 adult slaves and a horse to move each block.
Peep Show also has that joke - "Slaves, Jeremy" VS "Whips, Rimmer".
But there's a good chance that the answer wasn't slaves, but well paid, hard-drinking work-units, organized along the lines of boat crews, all working together during a public festival and overseen by well trained specialists.
I love how often "we have no idea how they did it!" and "they couldn't possibly do something this sophisticated!" turns into "we know how, when, where they got the materials and the name of the project foreman" when you just ask an archeologist.
Even when archaeologists don’t have that level of detail, they can still confidently tell you that people don’t really change. If we can imagine something now, they could most likely imagine the same thing a thousand years ago.
For example, you know what’s an incredibly common thing to find on a dig? Dildos. Phallic stuff is everywhere, and when you find a well-polished, life-sized clay dick, it’s pretty clear what it was used for. The Greeks had devices that were essentially computers that could predict celestial movements. Running water and indoor plumbing was relatively common in the ancient world.
We’re so egotistical to think that humans in the past were somehow incapable of thinking, planning, or building at our level. And we convince ourselves that we’re better than them because we have all this fancy stuff No, their brains were just as complex and capable, they just didn’t have access to the same kinds of tools that we do.
I'm just going to imagine that they were using it to slap politicians in the face with dildos. Because something about roman senators getting slapped with a clay horsecock makes me laugh.
i now wonder how long the horsecock is best cock meme has been around for lmao.
God i fucking hate the internet sometimes...
You know that they've found dicks scrawled on bathroom stalls in pompei, in basically the same style we still scrawl dicks on bathroom stalls.
Also, the your-mom jokes, yelp-esque reviews, and yelp-esque reviews of your mom.
Yeah. we've grown a lot as species. And also, haven't grown at all.
Also, the senator's name was Gregg Abotticus.
humans are as humans do. Nothing will be as timeless as dick jokes and fucking someone elses mom.
I love the ingenious solutions for ancient under floor heating.
Tbf a lot of things that people did by hand in the past would be unthinkable for a lot of modern people as to how to achieve it without CAD etc.
This is so true, mostly because we are spoiled by growing up with modern tools. We are many generations of tools separated from our roots. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
On the other hand, if an EMP took out the grid and CAD disappeared, you can be damn sure engineers amongst us would be bashing rocks together and figure a lot of it out pretty quickly.
We will brute force anything as a species if we need to, we just mostly don't need to at the moment, and time is money.
i find it weird that people are latching onto the concept of it being like racist or xenophobic, and there's definitely room to discuss that about it. But i can't help but feel like we're talking about a dumbass with a netflix show, shouldn't we apply occam's razor here?
I feel like the obvious answer here is that bro is a dumbass, made up a conspiracy, and is using it to make money. Granted i also don't know much about his history, maybe he does a little racism in his spare time idk.
Graham Hancock is a racist grifter who definitely knows he's full of shit, is that what you mean?
maybe? I don't know anything about graham hancock, is the racism accusation literally just coming from his ancient apocalypse shit or is this like a predefined established behavior of the dude?
He's definitely a grifter though.
I feel like pointing at (subconscious) racism is compatible with Occam's razor
it could be, if they were just a well known racist or something, like i said i know nothing about this guy so that seems like a weird jump to make when the very obvious and clear answer is that it's for money.
Like in my mind, there's one of two things happening:
this is a really complex result of subtle/subconscious racism which is leading to him latching onto conspiracies specifically surrounding a thing that he is not educated in at all, and then lying and making shit up about it, to the point of literal conspiracy theories. While also simultaneously being able to make a netflix series on it, which likely pays him a good chunk of money.
OR
this is just a way for him to make money because he can't do science, and doesn't want to do anything else. (and also maybe some public perception, i assume he is somewhat well known previously though)
@BertramDitore @Hegar
Running water and indoor plumbing was relatively common in the ancient world.
really ?
In 1920, only *** 1% of US homes** had indoor plumbing
https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2004/data/papers/SS04_Panel1_Paper17.pdf
Yeah, that has more to do with American social issues and lack of government support for the general population. Water engineering is expensive no matter where or when you are, and America is huuuge.
Plumbing was common in the ancient world in the Near East, Middle East, Mediterranean (Greece and Rome), and really wherever there were people. Keep in mind if you ask two different archaeologists, you'll get two slightly different answers, but it's pretty common knowledge that running water is not a modern invention.
Some sources (only a quick search, I don't have access to all the academic journals where you'd find the good stuff):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7004096/
https://ancientengrtech.wisc.edu/greece-overview/water-systems/
https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/roman-aqueducts/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_technology
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506/ <--this one is really cool, the Qanats are still fully functional today
Edit: fixed links
My favourite example:
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/aug/chinas-oldest-water-pipes-were-communal-effort
this would be residential, if we're just talking "indoor plumbing" than i would assume it doesn't have to include residential spaces, and probably applies to things like public baths, and bathrooms/latrines or whatever for example.
Mostly for the rich or other well off citizens, lower classes still had to walk to a local fountain or well to get water
People found the pyramid building manual quite recently. At the turn of the century, it was still a mystery.
Normal people don't keep up with stuff that recent.
I get the same reaction from my fellow Americans when i tell them I walk my groceries home so I'm not surprised
My cousin couldn't understand how I bought groceries after I sold my car. After telling him I walked three blocks to the store he asked how I bought groceries in winter. I told him I put on a coat and boots and walk three blocks to the store.
One of my carless kin! There are dozens of us!! The number of times people have assumed I can't go somewhere "because it's raining" and I'm just like, I have a jacket and an umbrella! But what if you're biking?? Um, I have a jacket, a backpack cover and leggings and sometimes... if I'm just heading home to a hot shower and a change of clothes, I just get soaking wet! Like absolutely sodden! NBD! And if I'm heading somewhere without the option of a change of clothes, I bus there and that leads to a whole other issue of "But that must take ssooo long!?!" Yeah sure, a bit longer, but I can relax, pop on some headphones, set google maps to tell me when I'm near my stop, watch/listen to something and let the driver worry about the driving!
I live two blocks from my local market, I understand you.
Also, they don't understand that giving me a bag for milk is not worth it, milk has a handle.
No, it comes in a plastic lined cardboard box with a screw on lid 😛
Omg I can't believe I'm about to do this but...
^This
It actually pisses me off to no end when people put their plastic jug of milk into a plastic bag. Like, the jug is heavy enough that the bag will never hold it, just fucking carry it like a normal person
Change my pitch up
Stack some bricks up!
i wasn't expecting prodigy here.
In other news, banger song, go listen to it (smack my bitch up for those wondering)
Literally first thing that came to mind
I know it's a meme but can somebody set me straight? I swear I read somewhere that this narrative started with the research community saying, essentially, "we know a number of ways in which they might have achieved this feat but we aren't sure which one they used," but the entertainment/conspiracy communities heard "there is no explanation for how these people were able to achieve this feat."
It started with "we have no idea how they did it". Then over time it morphed into "we have several hypotheses but don't know if it any of those is realistic". The current state of things is still there regarding the construction technique itself.
In the meantime the village where construction workers lived has been found. Now we know the profile or people who built the pyramids, how they lived and what they ate. Even some details about work organization.
All of this still didn't propagate into the popular culture which is still stuck in the 1980s regarding pyramid knowledge.
Cool
Of course! Because otherwise it would mean all the mystique is gone! And if the mistique is gone, people can't imagine they're supposed to be starship landing pads!
Or lay-line powered aura cleansing structures.
Or part of an ancient technology global warning system.
Or a physical star chart pointing to the origins of the Egyptians.
Or hydrogen fusion power generators.
Or piezoelectric resonance generators.
Or... Some... Other things I probably forgot about. But it's certainly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, NOT a tomb of some egotistical man that believed himself a god on the Earth!
i would really appreciate it if a stats/math nerd would put together a short piece on how "statistically it only makes sense if the Egyptians built a pyramid, this is the most logical and likely outcome"
i feel like you could argue that statistically, shapes that are to be built by humans, will inevitably approach the shape of a pyramid.
I'm too lazy and incompetent at statistics to do the math, but survivorship bias is very much relevant here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
Turns out, if you build something that isn't a bunch of stones in an organized stack, it won't last thousands of years like the organized stone stacks.
this is true, regardless, i'm still sure it's somewhat relevant. human societies have built a lot of large structures, but the pyramids are some of the largest ever.
Take a handful of sand. Turn your first perpendicular to the ground and let it fall slowly. What shape does it form? It's one of the most stable shapes you can make.
A cone?
A pyramid is just a cone with a square base.
A cone is just a pyramid whose base has infinite sides
No, a cone can have any flat shape as its base, wherefor a pyramid - which only has four sides - is also a cone.
By definition, a pyramid can have any polygon as a base, not just a square. A cone can ONLY have a circle as a base.
I say Pyramids ⊂ Cones. You say Cones ⊂ Pyramids. Therefore Cones = Pyramids.
if you build a literal tower there are two primary issues: how do you get things up to the top, and 2, it will fall over because of gravity and or wind if you aren't careful. (or just the ground being too soft to support it)
the pyramid solves basically all of these problems.
The same thing with things like Stonehenge. I liked the theory that said these types of constructions are the result of the prehistoric version of Burning Man, where they built it just because they could as an art installation.
It's still standing because luckily for us they didn't invent fire yet. /s
Not even /s, there are signs of posts planted upright nearby, a so-called woodhenge.
Well considering they rebuilt Stonehenge in the 1950s its possible the site is totally wrong too. Its possible it should look more like the Callanish stones.
Okay but if they really built a hydraulic lift elevator that’s so cool
she might be but hard to tell from this angle
Morticia Adams lookin fly
They also gain approval from the Royal Society of Putting Things On Top Of Other Things.
Everyone, or just the people who would call in to coast to coast am?
Putting things on top of other things.
Whips, rimmer, massive massive whips.
Actually, this isn't that hard given enough slaves and beasts of burden like camels.
Each stone was 2.5 tons (5000lbs) on average and the average human male can pull 500 lbs easily. That means with decent friction elimination (rolling logs, water, sand etc.) it would only take 10 adult slaves and a horse to move each block.
Peep Show also has that joke - "Slaves, Jeremy" VS "Whips, Rimmer".
But there's a good chance that the answer wasn't slaves, but well paid, hard-drinking work-units, organized along the lines of boat crews, all working together during a public festival and overseen by well trained specialists.
The most interesting part to me is the rope strong enough to pull that kind of weight.
ropes together strong
I mean, can you make one that big?
I didn’t think so.
I rest my cases
How many kilograms each?
Yes.
TBF, they had some pretty shitty science in ancient Egypt.