Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x07 "Those Old Scientists"
::: spoiler Logline An accident while investigating a time portal sends Ensigns Beckett Mariner and Bradward Boimler through time from the 24th century, and Captain Pike and his crew must get them back where they belong before they can alter the timeline. :::
Written by Kathryn Lyn & Bill Wolkoff
Directed by Jonathan Frakes
172
Comments168
My favourite line in the whole thing is right at the end when Commander Jack Ransom (played by Jerry O'Connell) walks past the poster of Lieutenant commander Una Chin-Riley (played by Rebecca Romjin) and calls her "The hottest first officer in Starfleet history."
For those who don't know, the Jerry O'Connell and Rebecca Romjin are married to each other.
I thought it was weird and a touch sleazier than we normally see from Ransom, but out of universe that is very sweet!
I did not know this!! Thank you!!
My expectations for this one were high, but I'm really impressed with how well they pulled it off. Tawny Newsome and Jack Quaid did a great job of dialing their performances back just enough, and the SNW cast went just a little bit broader.
Boimler exclaiming “RIKER” as he hopped on the saddle had me howling. Frakes is such a sport!
I saw somewhere that the actor improved that line which means he blurted it out with Riker standing right there which feels totally in line with the tone of the episode they were shooting. It's funny to me on so many levels.
Yep, they confirm it in Ready Room. Apparently Frakes' wife was dying from laughter watching the episode when that happened.
For a moment in my head, I was wondering why you didn't just say Deanna.
That honestly makes it’s so much better. I’d love to see a behind the scenes for this episode!
Definitely watch the Ready Room episode. They talk about a lot of this. I remember another interview where Tawnie Newsom, I think, talks about how Frakes, Quaid, and her just kinda took over the set because they were all nerding out, being silly, and improv-ing a bunch because that's what they do on LDS.
Frakes is, in addition to an iconic Actor, the best Trek Director of the modern age. 11/10.
I cannot believe they had Boimler and Mariner move like physical cartoon characters and pulled it off that well, holy shit. We absolutely lost it when Boimler was tangled in the control panel
And him doing his walk away from Una the second time. And so many of Tawnie's mannerisms like in the shuttle where she kinda strikes a pose before getting caught. And Quaid's mannerisms and screaming with Spock in the lab.
Those two really worked to make realistic versions of the silliness they have in LDS and it was magnificent. I caught so much more on second watch.
Sooooo many people that never watched Lower Decks are going to be asking why there was a koala in the opening and I'm delighted by that.
"Why is he smiling? What does he know?"
I watched lower decks and I'm also confused
I think it's s1e4 of lower decks
Thanks
The universe is balanced on the back of a giant cosmic koala! WHY IS HE SMILING? WHAT DOES HE KNOW??
I missed the koala! When does it show up in the intro?
Edit: found it at 6:46
Poor Christine Chapel! Now she knows what the audience has always known: her relationship with Spock is ultimately doomed. Plus a delightful mix of guilt and fear that she could unwittingly cause Spock to never measure up to the vague but crucial future that Boimler mentioned to her in the turbolift, simply by trying to make the two of them happy.
That suuuuuucks.
I really didn't expected the emotional moments, but they were all done so well
So Boimler inadvertently causes Nurse Chapel to end her relationship with Spock and encourage him to go back to T'Pring?
Predestination paradox. In fact the entire thing is likely a predestinaiton paradox. "Activated 120 years ago", which is caused by the imager at "now"; the reason why the two can go back home is because Tendi told them about the version according to Orion and mentioned her great-grandma being the discoverer, which is what let the past Orion to recognize the truth and probably themselves assigned it to Tendi's great-grandma?
...this little bit of cooperation between the Federation and the Orions probably improves their relationship a bit, which will eventually lead to Orions joining the Federation, which is how Tendi is friends with Boimler in the first place, which is how Boimler knows that not all Orions are pirates which is why Pike tones down his hostile response which gets them to a deal with the Orions which leads to...
Tendi just said her great-grandmother was on the ship that discovered it, not that she was the discoverer.
OMG! They managed to make that scene just so hilarious and poignant at the same time. Watching her facial expressions as she realizes what Boimler is telling her made me want to just scream at him to shut the fuck up and slap the shit out of him...but he's just being dear sweet clueless Boimey. :(
Theme-wise, I think they're setting up a comparison between Pike knowing his doom and Christine/Spock knowing their relationship is doomed. Knowing that, what do you do in the meantime?
Loved having a Sunday morning cartoon 🖖
This episode was way better than it needed to be. I was genuinely moved seeing Una's reaction to the knowledge of her being the "poster girl", as well as the reaction of the Orion captain at the end.
Seeing Boimler and Mariner in this context really drives home how much Lower Decks is essentially "what if Trekkies could serve in Star Fleet" and it worked so well!
Especially the poster girl part being how she (and her lawyer) presented her self in the trial in ep2
Yes exactly! To Boimler it was a major and inspiring story out of history, but to Una it was a personal moment that happened only recently. Imagine being told something you did that you thought was relatively minor (and over) would inspire generations of people in the years to come. Her reaction was perfect.
HE DOES THE WALK
My wife went nuts when he did it and she’s not even into this like I am.
Anyone else see Boimler do the Boim-walk to get away from Una the second time with Mariner there? I did not realize human hips could move like that.
Yes! I did the Dicaprio point at my tv when he started speedwalking.
My wife was crying she was laughing so hard from that. It was perfect.
Cracked me up, I laughed so hard at that part.
Or even just the way he was running to catch up with Mariner.
This episode is one of the best episodes in the modern era of Trek, it's lighthearted it's funny it celebrates Trek and it's done so tastefully that I genuinely have nothing bad to say about it. It reminds me of Trials and Tribble-ations.
Plus that line at the end where they tell Una ad astra per aspera and that's why boimler joined Starfleet is just the right kind of emotions.
Honestly, they smashed it in this episode and ofc the 2d animated intro was chefs kiss.
Why is it the exact opposite of what Alex Kurtzman wants to do?
This is a good time to remind the group that we have zero tolerance for bigotry.
They NAILED it. They, somehow, took the loving but self aware fan service of lower decks and jammed it into SNW which has been the most consistent reboot back to the core of this series. This was absolutely some of the best show writing I've seen in a very long time.
It really was perfectly done. I loved every minute of it.
This 1000%
I actually think Lower Decks is closer to the core of Star Trek than SNW. I mean, you couldn't do a "the enterprise got pregnant" episode in SNW
SNW has been continually frustrating me by almost being great trek but continually falling short. Like, that prime directive episode on the forgetting planet was great, right up until the captain decided to flagrantly ignore the prime directive and destroy a culture's individuality
My face hurt by the end of the episode. I had no idea I was smiling the whole time. It really was that perfect mix of physical comedy but down to earth. It reminded me so much of The Orville. Definitely one of those I'll go back to watch again.
Is that you, Mr. Spock?
The danger with these "very special fun episodes" is that they can be confined to being just that. But what elevated this episode is how it used the time travel/crossover conceit to foreshadow, progress and pay off SNW character arcs, including Chapel and Spock's ultimately doomed relationship (something that I've previously said could be incredibly poignant, if handled right), Number One's legacy, and the way Pike confronts his fate. I hope the musical episode does the same.
They also tied in to Tendi's story on LD (her constant reminding to people that Orions have a culture far beyond pirating), even though we didn't see her in Live Action.
Are Orions now the designated species for calling out how essentialized Star Trek aliens tend to be? Because we have D'vana Tendi, the somewhat obscure Ensign Harral from Discovery, and now the crew of the D'var. You can argue the last one's just an extension of Tendi's character arc, but still, that's three series that have touched on this.
TBH I think TNG did this very well with the Klingons (depending on who was writing the episode, of course). Like, some Klingons were Real Klingons(tm) but many others only gave lip service to those ideals and were actually as sneaky and cowardly as any other race. I think a lot of Worf's inner conflict came from realizing and processing that fact.
And on the extreme end of that was the Duras family being more like the stereotypical Romulan (and even allying with them against their own people) than a Real Klingon™. It was disgusting how they managed to keep their house throughout the series, even though they were everything a Klingon wasn't supposed to be.
The viewer naturally sympathizes with Worf and adopts his view of Klingon culture, but remember that he was raised by humans and most of his knowledge of Klingon culture came from very early childhood and books. Imagine a human child raised by another species whose knowledge of Human culture came from fairy tales and like Arthurian stories. He'd come to earth and be outraged that everyone isn't following some virtuous code of chivalry. A politician broke his word? DUEL TO THE DEATH! That's Worf.
There's also the Orion on DS9 who likes to talk big game about being a pirate, but he's actually from Cincinnati and has never pirated anything in his life
Thoughts and observations as I watched over at the "other place", special Saturday night/early Sunday morning edition:
It's because they are married in real life. Jerry O'Connell and Rebecca Romijn that is, not Ransom and Numero Una.
@teft @startrek That is hilarious!
Oh I didn't know that. Is there some (real life) Star Trek connection that brought them together or is it just some coincidence that they both are on Star Trek?
Oh, according to the entertainment weekly article Tawny absolutely demanded a scene with Uhura (or at least pitched it to the writers)
"WHAT THE HELL IS IN THIS THING!"
Honestly if there wasn't a mention of Pike's Peak why are we even here?
But seriously what does the Koala know can we even handle such knowledge
Yep. There is no critiquing this episode IMO. They nailed pure cross over fun. All smiles through the whole episode!!
It was ... the best of both worlds.
Fun episode. I lost track of all the references but I'm particularly delighted that they brought up the NX-01 and her crew, and that the NCC-1701 crew (what even comes after the dash?) is gushing over them, like we all are gushing over all the different Trek crews.
I deeply appreciated seeing some on-screen Enterprise love, because I feel like Enterprise gets a bum wrap.
To be fair, since it's been on it got an Easter egg reference in the Kelvin-verse and has been mentioned or referenced in most of the new shows from S1 of Dis on. Not only did they name drop Archer in that, they actually expanded on the MU episodes of Ent.
And let's not forget the NX-01 herself shows up onscreen in Picard Season 3.
Yep, I thought they may resuse the Star Ship museum asset from Pic then realised it probably didn't exist yet on SNW era.
The ship surely exists in this time so the asset could be used however the fleet museum as we saw it in PIC definitely did not so its asset could not. Canon is that it is the original Spacedock that was towed to its current location and converted into a museum. Problem is - where would they find an NX-01 at this time period? All the way back at Earth maybe? In the VOY finale, I believe, they said that Voyager was a museum piece in San Francisco but in the new timeline its at the museum we saw so maybe the ships were originally stored there on Earth or in orbit (or maybe over the ocean, I guess since SF doesn't really have space for whole starships to just sit around?) but were moved to the new location later (Athen Prime, if memory serves). I believe in "Relics" from TNG, it's said that a Constitution class was a museum in San Francisco so I guess that would add to it.
I read in a thread and heard on a podcast people saying they were worried that we would revisit the museum again and I shouted at the radio in my car "It doesn't exist yet!"
Holy smokes, I can't believe how awesome that thing was that I just watched. I'm awestruck at the talent it must have taken to pull it off so perfectly.
Frakes has directed two Orville episodes (so far), and arguably brought his experience over to SNW, as Boims and Mariner were fan[boy|girl]ing about, it had serious "Orville" vibes to it. I don't think they could have picked a better director.
The bit where Ortegas and Uhura were gushing about the NX-01 crew and suddenly realizing that's why their guests were gushing was priceless.
"What would come after the dash?"
And both Jack and Tawny crushed it as the live action versions of their characters. (Both were over-the-top, and that was the point).
I wonder if that "Riker!" Gag was improvised and if so, how long it had Frakes (and/or the crew) laughing.
The LD-style intro was chefs kiss perfect. The coda was, likewise, a perfect capstone.
I didn't realize Frakes directed two of the Orville episodes, but makes a lot of sense. He did an amazing job bringing the charm of The Orville into this episode. RE: the intro....YES!!! I was about to skip it, but so happy I watched it. I loved the space-monster sucking on the ship! It is my favorite part of the LD intro, so happy to see it here.
Watch the Ready Room episode! The Riker was improvised!
That was amazing, on par with Trials and Tribble-ations for a crossover. Loved how well they integrated Boimler and Mariner without losing any of the character as LD has presented them.
"You guys look... very realistic." I guffawed. So thrilled to be watching this episode finally!
Saw this at the Comic-Con screening and it works better than I expected, especially the physical comedy. The exaggerated cartoon antics are still there, but toned down just enough to not seem out of place in live action.
This was incredible and everything I could have hoped that it would be. 11/10, no notes.
The only thing I wished was for the Enterprise crew to have been in TAS style art animation at the end. But yeah. Great show!
Still kind of hoping that one year they do a "Trials and Tribble-Ations" tribute episode where they go back to the Enterprise during TAS and splice in the LD guys in in the TAS style.
They could call it "Those Animated Scientists"
"Animated?"
"Yeah, you know, they were kind of stiff back then, so I call them that ironically."
Perfect!
I loved all of it! I liked how they had fun with the crew being in the 2D Lower Decks style at the end, poking fun at it with the dialogue. Then they blamed it on the drinks, so it wasn't really a fourth wall break.
I have only one note: no live action Tendi or Rutherford :(
Otherwise: yes, excellent.
So many people were ragging on this idea. I think the episode firmly shut them up. This was top notch Trek! Fantastic from start to finish. I want more! Now they're complaining about the upcoming musical episode? Haters gonna hate I guess.
I'm one of the people who was ragging on the idea and I was absolutely fucking right.
And yes, I'm ragging on the idea of the musical episode, too.
Well I guess not everyone is going to like every episode, or every show for that matter and that's ok. I can't stand Discovery. I gave up somewhere in season 2. Just couldn't take it anymore.
@ki77erb @startrek Personally, I find SNW to be, by far, the best Trek since DS9.
The most recent episode was broad, but I still found it delightful.
Same! Great cast and great writing.
@ki77erb @michaelgemar
I love the cast. But I love the cast of Discovery too. The writing has been better in SNW than disco, but there's still moments of awkward dialogue that feels wrong. Not as bad as discovery but still has those moments that pull me out of it.
I say that, but I also loved the hell out of the SNWxLD episode, but I loved it because I love both shows for different reasons I suppose. It's complicated.
Well, you lasted wit Discovery longer than I did. I saw the first episode and the butchered Klingons, and that was as far as I made it into the series.
I ended up being ok with the weirdly retconned Klingons - after all, Next Generation "butchered" the Klingons from TOS. The thing that kept me with Disco until season 4 was Michelle Yeoh's character, because I fucking love her. That said, it does not really get much better than S1, and I gave up after S3.
The opening sequence is chef kiss
i mean they are both animated. They tried to film on location but the camera operator keeps getting burned in the nebula.
I enjoyed it, fun and different and the ending did make me laugh with Spock's arm. I found I was less invested in the story as I was focused on the character interactions. Overall, I'm fine with it and it didn't have to be anything that is not trying to be.
I didn't quite get the reference with Spock's arm. Was this supposed to reference something in previous Trek?
I don't think so, I think it's just a joke about him doing things as a cartoon version he couldn't do in real life, and also him tripping balls.
THAT WAS SO GOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! Couldn't stop smiling through that whole episode!!
They were perfect for their roles in live action as well. Love how they kept their cartoony energy.
When they're in the corridor and Boimler husslea off, and you see him walking a crazy walk in the background, that really cracked me up.
Section 31 speed walking!
You know the way Boimler was crawling under the communications panel, with his right legs at a 90 degree angle. It was just so perfect embodiment.
Pelia is quoting Carey Grant when she talks to Boimler. I thought that was neat.
I'm seeing lots of positivity here, so I'll be the boring one. I enjoyed it but they didn't quite land it for me. Things that would have been funny in an out-and-out sitcom felt wrong in the context of a 'serious' Trek show. For example, Mariner and Boimler having a really inappropriate discussion about how hot Spock was, while Spock was right there, during a senior staff meeting - it was a bit too jarring for me. You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional. I think they got this the wrong way round by making it a SNW episode instead of a Lower Decks episode.
Separately though, given that we know Spock and Chapel don't make it, I like that in the two episodes since they got together they have hinted at two separate reasons why they might split up: first the possiblity it's triggered by them having different attitudes to reporting the relationship to Starfleet, and now Chapel's Boimler-induced insecurities about whether she might hold Spock back from doing something great with his life.
I think Mariner was just in true form. Nonchalant and flippant. The cultural differences are huge especially the technology they've deployed 130 years since the NCC-1701. The way Mariner casually suggests just making more of the element like it's getting a glass of water from the replicator and Boimler gives her a hard side-eye gives you an idea just how different their day to day lives are. Boimler was able to reconfigure the ship and navigate it on his own because the Enterprise is just so archaic by comparison to the Cerritos.
In reality it's just a factor of the difference between a comedic cartoon and live action, but I sort of love the idea of it being an actual cultural difference between the two timelines, with people in the even more utopian lower decks era having gotten looser and wackier.
The Cerritos is also canonically the silliest ship in Starfleet. Freeman is always struggling to be taken seriously
I don't think it's the difference between 23rd vs 24th century officers, but more a difference between upper deck senior officers and lower decks ensigns.
Also the difference between the flagship of Starfleet and the bottom of the barrel California class. Shaxs would never get away with screaming about the warp core all the time on the Enterprise, and Freeman is constantly struggling to make the Cerritos look like a serious ship to the rest of Starfleet
This is truly the best Star Trek episode, bar none. Hadn't had goosebumps like this since watching "All Good Things..." back in 1994.
I'm not racist, one of my friends is
BlackOrion!Oh man, I really loved this episode. Very fun. Kinda sad we didn't get to see Tendi and Rutherford live action though. Would be great to see maybe some of the SNW crew end up on the Cerritos...
In The Break Room it is Tawny and Jack heavily suggest they hope they get to return to the set of SNW. That with Pike repeatedly like "please don't break things" suggests the two crews will run into each other again... I'm hoping Enterprise crew accidentally find themselves on the Cerritos next time!
Also, at the end of the LD Season 4 trailer, Mariner and Boimler mentioned something about "the Pike thing we are not supposed to talk about". Maybe there will be some more LD/SNW developments.
I hope the Enterprise crew gets to walk around yelling "Upper Decks! Upper Decks! Upper Decks!"
I haven't gotten around to Lower Decks, but this episode was simply brilliant even for me. Just sublime all around.
Part of why this episode is so good is that Lower Decks is so good. It’s funny Trek that whole heartedly celebrates Trek while retaining the spirit of Trek. If you haven’t seen it, I recommend! Its probably a hard needle to thread, and a vibe, as it turns out, that is evidently resonant with SNW.
This mash-up/cross-over was not only inspired and well executed, but in many ways probably a fluke of this moment of Trek production which has two separate parallel series that are fun, bright spirited celebratory not-quite-sequel/prequels with their own compelling themes, stories and characters.
An extremely fun episode, had a stupid grin on my face right from the opening.
One thing that jumped out at me was the adjectives used: "scientists, explorers, adventurers." The episode reinforced what Starfleet as an organization and Trek as a concept are all about.
I can confirm that this episode is live on Crave, as well as Paramount+ in the relevant regions.
What is up with that? It's not supposed to be out until Thursday. That's a heck of a release date slippage.
They released earlier to coincide with screening it at SDCC.
Aha, makes sense! I had all but written off ComicCon because I figured the strikes would put the kibosh on most of the panels and other appearances, but I guess the studios will still roll out their stuff there. Cool beans.
Regardless if the actors or writers are present to promote, the event space is bought and paid for, contracts have been signed, etc. The event goes on with or without the talent present.
We were able to watch and record the ‘Special Presentation’ on CTV Sci-fi channel.
It did however make us watch every single ad, with a ‘skip is not available for this episode’ message.
There are no other windows for it showing before Thursday, but I am wondering if Bell will add it to ‘On Demand’ sneakily tomorrow.
Always good to get the full television experience.
My spouse was covering their eyes and guffawing at many of the ads. It’s been years since they’d sat through anything more than promotions for other shows. Definitely an experience.
Annotations up at: https://startrek.website/post/462450
Small note I LOVE that they're extending the "not all Orions are pirates" theme!!! LD did such a great job demystifying a race of people with Ensign Tendi and it only makes sense that their people have always been more than just a stereotype even during the TOS era. Was cool to see Boimler help change that perception with the Enterprise crew and confirmed when the Orion science captain saying "that's all we wanted" about being seen as explorers just like Star Fleet!
Apparently their visit back in time was always baked into this timeline. Explains why Temporal Investigations didn't get involved. Pretty cool that Tendi, through Boimler, had a hand in building the foundation for better relations between the Federation and Orions.
Yes! Boimler is a great example of an ally here - he tells Pike, who he spends all episode worshiping, directly and politely that his bias against Orions is wrong.
What a nice surprise after work on a Sunday!
The episode was bloody tremendous! I knew they were going to appear in SNW but somehow I didn't think it was going to be cartoon and live action together, I thought they would just be sucked into the past and we'd see the real actors. The intro and outro were both great. It was just brilliant all round.
I loved it. I was ready to be annoyed they didn't do a LD animation style intro sequence but they nailed it; nacelle monster and all. Same for the ending; I was hopeful they would do the end scene LD style and again they just nailed it.
What an absolutely fantastic episode. Loved every second of it! As soon as it finished I just wanted to watch the whole thing again (but couldn’t because of stupid work)
Did you not learn anything from Mariner? Work is gonna be there still
five45 minutes from now.Definitely one of the most enjoyable episodes of any modern Star Trek episodes if not the best. Love the calls back to the other shows and Star Trek history. I like how the Lower Decks actors played their human characters just as skillfully as they voice them. I loved their connections with the SNW crew. Just beautifully well written. Feels like that it made up for what seemed to be lacking in the previous episode.
I’ve only seen the first maybe 8 episodes of Lower Decks can I watch this episode without spoiling the rest of the seasons?
Yeah you’re all good
Minor spoilers.. there's a Tendi reference that is somewhat important. But all the lower decks references you really need will be explained in the episode.
The episode was really good. I like the appearance of the Orion Scout Ship we see in "Journey to Babel", one of my favorite ships. It may raise some slight continuity errors, but who cares. Nice ship, nice episode, nice show. Probably one of the best episodes of Trek I've seen.
I'm still giddy about this episode. Possibly the best thing I've ever seen.
One thing I noticed particularly in this episode is how respectful both SNW and LD are of canon and fandom in general - the bit about not all Orions being pirates, for example. I know it originates w/Tendi from Lower Decks, but just in the context of this episode they take the one-dimensional nature of the Orions from TOS, poke a little fun at it, but then make it about the bias that the Federation/Star Fleet has against a culture they really don't understand. The SNW writers effortlessly take what could be considered a flaw or one-dimensional writing from TOS and actually use it to flesh out the ST universe, all while telling a great story.
Some Orions haven't been pirates for 5 years!
Fine Fine episode Why are my eyes so big?? The Stafleet logo on the soles of his shoes. Mariner doing her double thumbs up. Her rolled up sleeves being slightly lighter red.
Enterprise love! Why do they talk so loud? Lol. The OPENING CREDITS! With that sucking alien. Glad they didn't have them retreat from danger.
It was fantastic
Someone can explain me the halloween costume pun?
NVM found it here
https://startrek.website/post/462450
Absolutely loved this episode, Boimler getting wrapped in the cables when jerry-rigging the sensors had me in tears; and the Riker as he swung his leg over the saddle brilliant bit of improv made even funnier knowing Drakes directed this.
They managed to tone down the lower deckers slighter whilst still having their full personalities come through.
Pikes getting more exacerbated with them throughout the episode was well done, and the amount of physical comedy I'm running out of superlatives for this episode.
It was just brilliant, easily my favourite of the current era.
Edit. Just wanted to add, loved seeing the LD uniform in love action; thought it translated really well.
@letThemPlay @ValueSubtracted
Totally agree with you...this Lower Desk crossover was perfect in pretty much every way...then the Klingon ambassador episode after that was like a stand alone movie and super heavy...the writing for SNW is just blowing me away👍👍
I wonder how many times crew get blackout/asleep and for a joke their mates put them in the holodeck for "computer end programme" to be a wake up meme.