In an effort to "not show bias" Trump's sentencing is delayed till after the election.
It wouldn't be fair to have your felony conviction negatively impact your opportunities. This is how justice works right?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/06/nyregion/trump-sentencing-delay-ruling.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world801
Comments127
Justice DENIED. AGAIN.
There's no impropriety about sending a convicted felon to prison just before an election. He has already been convicted. The fact that he is the nominee is irrelevant. RNC should have thought about that before they picked a guy they knew would likely end up behind bars for all the criminal acts he committed.
Now Trump will say he "won" the case, just like he did with the classified documents case. Corrupt judges all the way down.
To be fair, would you want to be the judge that threw him in jail when the military comes to break him out following an election victory? Looking into America from the outside, people are hedging their bets with possible dictatorship.
If he gets
electedinto the White House, that's going to happen anyway. His entire thing is revenge, and these fuckers are submitting prematurely.YES
The weird orange felon is going to lose.
I sure hope his record holds.
Don't be in a position of power of you're a fucking coward then.
There are far more positions with power over people than there are good people mentaly equiped to fill them. Your comment is incredibly naive.
This is an astounding level of bullshit even from a country that gives its full throated support to anyone with a net worth in the 7 figures or greater.
A million bucks isn't worth a million bucks anymore. $1,000,000 might net you $75,000 in yearly interest, before taxes. What kind of purchasing power is that going to be at retirement?
A worker earning $36 an hour wouldn't make $75,000 a year.
The millionaires are fine.
$33/hr. was an unimaginable amount of money to me in 1998. What's that look like when I can't work anymore, say in 2040? How about when a loaf of bread goes from $.50 to $5.50? That's how I know you're a child.
Oh, did I say $33/hr? Oops, I meant $36/hr.
$36 an hour × 40 hours × 52 weeks = $74,880
Please direct me to these ez pz 7.5% returns.
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/banking/7-percent-interest-savings-accounts#:~:text=See%20how%20we%20rate%20banking,rate%20is%20Landmark%20Credit%20Union
Probably not what you are looking for (with the limits and terms), but you get the idea.
FWIW, retirement studies would suggest a 4% withdrawal rate the first year, and increasing for inflation each year after. There are some other ways to go with this, but it's a good starting place.
It's ok. I'll take that pesky $1,000,000 and earn that paltry $75,000 in annual interest for doing nothing. It's ok. I'll allieviate you from the stress of thinking how worthless it is to you. Yes, I'll allow that.
People with your financial sophistication will be eating cat food out a can at 75. Good luck with those pesky numbers.
Louder, so those in the
southback can hear itDo you think only southerners are trumpers for some reason?
I agree. The Bible belt still contributes to our problems, of course. But the rust belt really fucked us in 2016.
No, sadly, we were fucked by the electoral college
This isn't a verdict, it is sentencing. He has already been found guilty. If the sentence matches what others have gotten for the same crimes, there is no bias.
By failing to do so, he has at best delayed justice, and if Trump should win, has essentially nullified the jury's verdict.
This feels reminiscent of Camu's "The Guest." The judge was given a job to do, and by waiting until the hard decision solves itself without his involvement, now all sides will feel this judge is a traitor.
This judge is a traitor
I think the idea is that on sentencing they're just going to take him into custody so they don't want to give him the "election interference!" out.
I thought general consensus is he isn't realistically looking at jail time for this?
I don't ever expect him to actually be held accountable, sadly. I just want to see the justice system actually functioning in a way that protects this country as a whole. Trump did a ton of damage personally to this country, but to see the entire court system, the only thing we have to stave off change through less civil means, is a pure joke is the greater tragedy for me.
We could always theorize the laws and voting and our representatives would prevent something like this former presidency from ruining our country, but what have we seen but paper tigers?
I think his crimes hold a maximum of 4 years in prison. But not a single person charged for them the first time has gotten prison time and usually get probabtion and a fine.
You're correct on all those points.
The take by the legal experts back while the trial was ongoing all said with no priors and it being nonviolent crime that none of them expected him to see prison.
But if we never get him convicted of any crimes, it won't matter very much.
Texhnicslly, if we never see him sentenced for his convictions it won't matter. He has 34 convictions.
If there's no sentence, was there a point to a trial?
This whole circus is held up on the fact the Supreme Court is entertaining the idea that any of the things he's charged with (or convicted of) can pass as him doing the job he was elected to do.
If he wins, this sentencing date will never come, and neither will any of the others. His acts will be officially sanctioned, and the only ones being sentenced will be us.
I agree completely, just wanted to make sure it was clear that he has been convicted.
Nobody else has his track record for repeatedly breaking laws though. His organization is criminal. His CFO has already done time twice. So did the lawyer representing him in this literal affair.
If Michael Cohen did time for the same crimes, Trump will do time for ordering Cohen to commit the crimes.
Will it be the maximum of 4 years? Likely not. And he'll do whatever is necessary to not serve the full time, whatever it is.
While I am not a defender of Trump, I think this decision is largely reasonable. It’s essentially punting sentencing to the court of public opinion. That’s the ultimate “justice”.
Here’s the thing, he’s already convicted of the crimes. The voting public knows this. If the voting public still votes him in , they’re essentially saying they’re okay with the crimes he’s committed. You really can’t get a better court of public opinion than a national election like this.
Is that not mob justice?
Have we not seen the Russian funding of right wing networks and the seizing of disinformation websites this week?
Not everyone votes or can really give an informed vote.
If Trump wins, do we accept he's now unpunishable for his crimes? If the voting majority supported him, do the rest of us suffer his promised revenge on his critics?
This is why we have a legal system supposedly. We have people who are supposed to enforce laws impartially and in a timely manner. The right to a speedy and fair trial, for both the plaintiffs and defendants. Justice delayed is justice denied.
I don't want a bunch of biased legal know nothings determining justice. That's some warlord stuff.
Laws are also supposed to protect from the tyranny of the majority as well. It's also supposed to protect the powerless from overstepping authority, like a rogue president.
I'm no fan of lawyers, cops, or legislators, but I certainly don't want to live in a place with no law.
Unless you forget an /s, I feel this is a bad take.
No, it’s not mob justice.
Generally, “unfair justice”, like mob justice is assessed by undue, unjust, or extreme punishment. Lack of punishment is not “unfair justice”. The US goes as fair to explicitly ban “double jeopardy” as it does not want “innocent “ people to face undue hardship.
In this case, the possible punishment is 100% within the legal system. At worst, trump receives the same punishment as any other criminal convicted of the same crimes. At best, Trump receives a lighter punishment as the result of the election. There is nothing undue or just about a lighter punishment.
Mob justice is a problem as it doesn’t allow for due process and proper representation. The “convicted” often ends up with non-reversible punishment (like mutilation or death) based on arbitrary “mobs”. Since the only outcome here is a reduced sentence, there isn’t an argument for mob justice.
TLDR: mob justice and similar “undue trials” really only care about wrongful convictions. Wrongful “not guilty” decision are not a “problem”
That is absolutely mob justice. You’re outsourcing the decision to the mob. People who aren’t privy to what happened in court, to the evidence, to anything. In fact, you’re disregarding actual justice, that has reached a verdict, and replacing it with the opinion of the ill informed mob. That’s the mobbest justice to ever mob.
What does public opinion have to do with law? That's not how the justice system works. Convictions mean nothing without sentencing. This only further erodes people's faith in the system. This decision is nothing but cowardice.
It's sure as fuck eroding mine!
The court system is loosely based on public opinion. Since it’s unreasonable to gather the public’s opinion, a jury is selected to represent “the public”.
In this case, the election essentially allows you to get the actually public’s opinion. You literally cant get closer to true “court of public opinion” that having a nationwide vote on a recently convicted individual candidacy.
That's a bit of a stretch. A jury adheres closely to the facts, is educated about the relevant subjects, and there are penalties for unreasonable behavior. "Public opinion" does not override anything. It is not okay to break the law just because a cult disagrees or doesn't care. They can vote for change to the laws, but until they are actually changed everyone must follow them.
Showing plenty of bias by showering the felon with gratuitous delay and deference benefits.
Why are you only running through the 2036 election? Are you already 90? Why stop when you're 102?
Sounds like a fuckton of bias to me.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
Not show bias, but demonstrate extreme bias.
Merchan has put the onus on the electorate. We, the American electorate must assure that 11/26 comes AND trump the citizen, unemployed by the government in any office, is sentenced for his felonious crime, for which he was convicted in May of 2024. This is the only way in which justice will be served.
This is the right answer. I'm pissed but even more motivated to make the ballot his sentencing.
Even though the delay itself feels like a crime, I agree that voters giving Republicans a clear trouncing this November will accelerate their irrelevance, and make more severe Trump's sentence. If clear enough, the entire house of cards could come tumbling down.
OR, since we've once again given special legal protections to the rich and powerful, no matter how repugnant, providing another example of how our justice system works so very differently when you aren't one of the little guys, Trump gets elected, then there's the whole "ZOMG but now he's president-elect" pearl clutching and hand wringing that causes further delays, then he's inaugurated, and then I eventually get to die of old age with a dictator in charge while watching my country slowly morph into something like a mix of Gilead and the German-occupied former-US from Man in the High Castle.
Let me know how I vote even harder than I was already planning to vote. I'm really curious.
Yeah, to go to his house with torches and pitchforks and run him out of town on a rail for not doing his goddamn job!
I remember this same spiel about Mueller, and the people rebuked trump then, yet still we are here. Again. At least Mueller had a reasonable argument with trump being the sitting president.
And, I think it’s largely a reasonable decision.
This election is the ultimate court of public opinion.
What a crock of fucking shit. We all knew this was coming. Once again, this little cockroach has escaped the consequences of his actions, and it surprises nobody at this point. Fuck you Merchan, you traitorous fucking coward..
This was the expected outcome. There are no consequences for the wealthy and affluent in the US, only for the poor. Look at the 2008 financial collapse, there wasn't any real jail time for any of those involved but we can't even begin to cover the number of suicides their actions caused.
It's a good thing all he did was be found Guilty of a TON of Felonies and then put Judge Merchan's daughter in LIFE THREATENING DANGER! It's a good thing he wasn't a BLACK MAN selling Cigarettes! That would ACTUALLY be BAD!
That’s bullshit. Sentence the asshole now. He’ll flee the country otherwise
If he wants to flee the country I'll buy him a 1-way ticket right now.
Eh, Putin can have his dog back. Just make sure he doesn't come back.
As long as he's gone...
Such unmitigated fermented fucking bullshit. The courts are an absolute disgrace.
Were going to not show bias by being overwhelmingly biased towards this one person.
According to Model Standards for State Trial Courts, 75% of felony dispositions are to be resolved within 90 days, 90% within 180 days, and 98% within 365 days.
Trump was indicted March 30, 2023 and was arraigned on April 4, 2023. That means we are at 18 months now. With this decision it will be nearly 21 months.
It's because the Justice system is not whatsoever blind to wealth and power.
"Justice delayed is justice denied"
Neutrality only helps the fascist
I'm starting to think that the neo-liberals are on their side secretly.
It's wild how much the slowness of the judicial system distorts society. Rich people delay forever and evade punishment...this was a crime from 2016, 8 years ago, he was found guilty in May and won't even get his sentence until late November, let alone start serving it.
But, this is also a cause of some of the major issues at the Southern border. The immigration system is so bogged down that it can't process the volume, judges are doing bulk decisions with seconds reading each case, people are being released into the US until their case can be heard which can be a long time, and that process is so politically toxic that both parties have switched to flatly illegal methods of rejecting legal asylum seekers or other legal immigrants.
I'm not a legal expert but can we get some proposals to speed this all up? Do we just dump resources at it, get more judges so they can have fewer cases? Change the laws? Something needs to happen here.
It’s crazy how money puts people in permanent positions too, even after they’ve lost it all.
I have a friend for example, his family ran one of the biggest farms in the area. They had millions. With those millions they made very important connections.
They’ve been broke for a decade now.
See, some years back my old buddy was thrown off of a horse and has permanent brain damage. Something changed in him after that. What he’s doing isn’t something anyone can defend, but he should have been stuck in a hospital and treated. Before his mother died, she kept him on his medication and he was ok. After her death no one is there to enforce it, so he doesn’t take it.
He’s been charged with stalking three women in less than two years. He gets it in his head that they love him and they’re testing him. The judge is in on it, the police. Anything anyone says he interprets as being part of this big test. “I was there at the local arts center and the cops came and said, “We know you care for her but you can’t be here.” See, they know I care for her. It’s all a big test buddy, I’m telling you.”
It took multiple charges before they finally put him in jail. 2 with the first woman, 3 with the second, 2 with the third. Finally they couldn’t do him favors anymore. Or, favors for his dad that is. His dad played golf with the judge for years, the family lawyer is a lifelong friend who has finally had enough and was working his cases for free. I think he finally gave up after the last batch of charges.
I mean, maybe it’s because they know him and feel sorry for him having seen him grow up and the trauma his family experienced when he nearly died after the accident. Still though, money afforded him that position and even broke they still have it in a sense.
Anyone else would have been buried under the jail for what he’s done. I mean, I feel bad for him, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and the entire local small town system has pretty much let him run wild with these delusions because they know his family so well.
It’s a mess.
Nope, it’s smart. Leaving sentencing until after the election also keeps the Supreme Court out of it before the election. You can bet your boots they would have fast-tracked any appeal and nullified the sentence somehow before the election.
If trump gets elected he’ll just pardon himself or whatever machinations transpire where he won’t be sentenced at all.
He can’t do that. These are state crimes.
He has no authority to pardon non-federal crimes.
He can’t pardon them, but he can probably just ignore whatever punishment is given and he’ll say he has presidential immunity (regardless of whether it fits, that’s the idea he’ll have). Then, if he becomes a sitting president, nobody will actually do anything to enforce the judgement against him and it’ll just be ignored, making presidential immunity to even state crimes a practical reality, even if it’s not a legal reality.
True. But that is based in logic and the assumption that laws follow strict "rules" and well...
Buddy. Pal. He tried a violent overthrow of the US government. If he wins, that's GG. He just will until/unless the military coup him.
If he was sentenced before the election the Supreme Court nullifies it and you have the same result. Do all that you can to make sure he doesn’t get elected.
Acceptance of a pardon also means an admission of guilt. Trump has never guilty to anything, so he’ll be in a tight spot.
Not at all. He's been charged and found guilty before and it has made no difference because there's never been real consequences.
He will just say how can I be guilty of sth I got pardoned for? Some true Trump logic at work.
Your comment makes me a little less angry
That is showing bias.
In an effort to not show bias they monumentally fucking failed. Not showing bias would mean following the fucking law regardless of who the person was or what their agenda was.
Narrator: This showed bias.
Gift link giving everybody access. You can edit this into the original post.
Showing bias by claiming its an effort to not show bias is fucking insanity.
Wait till after election. -If Harris wins they claim she's locking up her opponent so he can't investigate the votes being wrong -If Trump wins they riot if Trump gets sentenced on anything claiming they are trying to lock him up because he won.
His election has and should have nothing to do with it.
They are begging for riots it seems
Ma'am we know he
rapedyou...sorry, sexually assaulted you. But we have to be bias to him. He might be President again. That is aboverapesexual assault.Aren't we showing bias by giving criminals extra time because they decided to run a bullshit political campaign to subvert the law
"In attempt to not show bias the courts yet again show bias in favor of bending over backwards to accommodate Trump..."
In an effort to not serve justice, in other words.
Welp, when he loses, hopefully they throw the book at him, and then he runs to Russia, proving once and for all what he really is.
"My name is Stabby McKiller! Yes, I clearly stabbed four people in that home, and yes, I was convicted! BUT, I am also running for president! For total fairness, I demand my sentencing be delayed, so my sentence does not sway voter opinion!"
What fucking bullshit. THIS is bias.
He will continue to shit all over the world and get away with it. Absolute insanity. Anyone else on the street would get put away tomorrow and forever.
Shower of bastards
In an effort to not show bias, we are giving incredible bias to Trump that no one else would get.
Yeah sorry, you cant send me to prison for anything cause it effects my chance at my job. Please wait till my job interview is over, thanks.
Justice delayed is justice denied. This country is well and truly fucked.
How dumb is the judge to just now figure out that, oh, there's a presidential election in 2 months ... This has been an issue since the conviction.
Damn big bias showing there trumpette
No real changes here, next date to watch is Thursday, September 26th:
If you're trying to keep track of where we're at in the Trump prosecutions:
Updated 09/06/2024
Washington, D.C.
4 federal felonies
January 6th Election Interference
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - The trial, originally scheduled for March 4th, had been placed on hold pending the Supreme Court ruling on Presidential Immunity.
The Supreme Court ruled that the President does enjoy limited immunity for "official acts", it now returns to lower court to determine what, if any, of his acts leading up to 1/6 were "official".
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/politics/supreme-court-donald-trump-immunity/index.html
On 8/27, a new federal grand jury re-indicted Trump on all four counts in a hearing this time excluding evidence barred by the Supreme Court.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/trump-indicted-federal-election-interference-case-supreme-court-immuni-rcna168503
"Judge Chutkan set a date of Sept. 26 for prosecutors in the office of the special counsel, Jack Smith, to submit an opening brief to her on the question of immunity."
"Judge Chutkan told Mr. Trump’s lawyers to respond to the government’s submission about immunity by Oct. 17. She also told them to finish making their arguments for why they need more discovery information from the government by Sept. 19."
"In her order, Judge Chutkan, an appointee of former President Barack Obama, set a deadline of Oct. 24 for Mr. Lauro to make a formal request to file the motion about Mr. Smith’s appointment."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/05/us/politics/trump-election-case-jan-6.html
Conviction
Sentencing
New York
34 state felonies
Stormy Daniels Payoff
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest
Trial
Conviction <- You Are Here Guilty, all 34 counts.
Sentencing - Originally scheduled for July 11, 2024, then September 18th following the Supreme Court's ruling on Presidential immunity, sentencing is now delayed until 11/26, after the election.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/06/nyregion/trump-sentencing-delay-ruling.html
Georgia
10 state felonies
Election Interference
As of 3/13/24 - Judge McAfee cleared 6 charges, 3 against Trump, saying they were too generic to be enforced.
As of 3/15/24 - The case may proceed, but either Fulton County DA, Fani Willis and her office or Special Prosecutor Nathan Wade must remove themselves due to the appearance of impropriety.
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
All 19 defendants have surrendered.
Trial - October 4th, 2024 hearing has been set to determine if Fani Willis can remain on the case.
Three defendants, Kenneth Chesebro, Sidney Powell, and bail bondsman Scott Hall, have all pled guilty and have agreed to testify in other cases.
Conviction
Sentencing
Florida
40 federal felonies
Top Secret Documents charges
Investigation
Indictment
Original indictment was for 37 felonies. 3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - The trial had been set to begin May 20, 2024, but was subsequently delayed indefinitely by the judge, and has now been dismissed outright under the claims that the prosecutor was not Constitutionally appointed.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-tosses-trump-documents-case-ruling-prosecutor-unlawfully-appointed-2024-07-15/
Jack Smith appealed Judge Cannon's ruling on Monday, 8/26 to the 11th circuit.
https://www.npr.org/2024/08/26/g-s1-19642/special-counsel-jack-smith-judge-cannon-appeal-trump-classified-documents
Conviction
Sentencing
Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, or the Arizona fake electors, have not been announced.
The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it's a civil case and not a crimimal one. He was found liable in that case for $83.3 million.
There had been multiple cases in multiple states to remove Trump from the ballot, citing ineligibility under the 14th amendment.
The Supreme Court ruled on March 4th that states do not have the ability to determine eligibility in Federal elections.
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/video/united-states-supreme-court-overturns-colorado-supreme-court-donald-trump-ballot-ruling/
While I love the detail and clarity of your posts, it is getting depressing seeing just how little actual progress has been made on holding him accountable.
Keep up the good work so if anything actually happens we will have a reminder that there was something.
Seems like a fuck ton of bias to me. What a joke.
He wasn't wrong when he said it was rigged.
It’s the Just Us system
Fuck that orange felon, what trash
I've been saying this over a year ago... Trump will never see the inside of a jail cell. If you think the rich and famous are held to the same standards under the law, you should realize you just WANT to believe that, it is not something you'll see in the real world
Judiciary working as intended
Shouldn't being a convicted felon affect one's candidacy?
Should the US government also pay candidates to have aesthetic surgeries? Being ugly might affect their candidacy!
Holy crap his tie isn't red
And when he's elected, he'll change the law in his favour. I know, he can't do everything he wishes, but he could probably make it better for himself. VOTE!
I wonder if he’s delaying the sentence because he’s planning to lock him up for a few months.
This judge has had a strong bias to not look like he’s impacting the general election, and putting Trump in Rikers for a few months would have a much bigger impact than a fine.
My cynical brain tells me otherwise... after the election Trump would win which means he will not be sentenced at all or lose meaning nobody would care when the judge sentences him to the smaller wing of Maralardo for a week of house arrest
Hush money cases with non-violent first time offenders usually doesn’t result in prison time. So, if he got fines, house arrest and or probation, that wouldn’t be abnormal. Handling him with kid gloves would also be inline with how this judge has operated.
BUT, he also threatened the court and jury, and was constantly held in contempt. A lot of trial lawyers assume that, if he does get a few months in prison, his attempt to threaten and bully the court could be the reason for stiffer penalties.
All this time I thought they were there to uphold the law no matter who was on the other end of it, but I know, joke's on me!
On one hand he should just be scentenced, but I can also see how sending him to jail might also away the elections in the wrong way. He would make himself a martyr.
If he loses the election and gets ssent to jail then, he can't go on a. "the elections where stolen" tour.
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This is for the best, there would have been even no end of trouble if he wasn’t able to run for election because he was sent to jail or whatever.
It looks like Trump is almost certainly going to lose the election and when he does he’s going to jail. It’ll make November even more fun.
That wouldn’t legally prevent him from running—Eugene Debs ran for president while in prison for protesting WWI.
Fixed a slight mistake. :(
Hilary was actually leading by roughly the same amount in 2016 by this point in the election campaign...
Harris is doing much better if your metric is performance in battleground states...
Maybe popular nationwide polls are similar, I wouldn't know, those are pointless so I don't look at them.
Like, Hillary kept acting like she was going to win, but the numbers always showed the battlegrounds were too close, and while trump campaigned there, she kept doing fundraisers and victory laps in Cali.
Didnt take a genius to realize if one side stops running in a close race, the slower runner could win.
I hope you are correct.
Ankle bracelet at worst, more likely an easy for him to pay fine. Trump is never going to spend a day in prison, mark my words. And if I'm wrong I'll celebrate along with everyone else about it.
As much as I don't want to agree, I partially do agree with your first statement and hope (regardless of how little faith I have in the justice system) that they are intentionally doing this so they can let the can of worms open if he loses and then take every single person they can down with him when they try to derail the results and attempt a 2nd coup.
It would be the icing on the cake, like you lost and you made a second attempt at it, there's no fucking back tracking and now we have even more people that came out of the woods to help you and we are going to take you all down.
They could put him in jail now, but corruption is rampant, but maybe (sliver of hope) there is some quiet digging of graves for these people to fall into.
A jail sentence would make him a martyr and boost his fundraising.
EDIT: I'm not making excuses, only stating likely outcomes as I see them.
This fucking echo chamber...
Hate orange man! Will say nothing that might favor him (even if I don't agree)! Give upvotes! Orange BAD!!
And that works every time with you easily manipulated children. Yes, I'm talking down to you. Big people say, "condescending". Can you say condescending? It 's a BIG word! Try it yourself!
Often thought about making two up/down vote gathering accounts and posting results. There wouldn't even be a shit storm, results would be ignored or banned.
Just an excuse to avoid actually holding him accountable for anything.
Putting his ass in jail might harden his base but turn off those who were only party loyal out of tradition and might throw away their vote to a 3rd party. Hell, it might motivate more people to overcome voter suppression and vote for Dems if the system actually does something to hold him accountable. Increased turnout is more important than how hard conservatives mash the Trump button.