American flags should be born in the USA now, too, Congress says
Soon, Old Glory will have to be born in the land of the free and not merely flying over it.
Congress has passed a proposal to require the federal government to purchase only American flags that have been completely manufactured in the U.S. The U.S. imports millions of American flags from overseas, mostly from China, and the sponsors of the proposal said it’s time for American flags to originate in the country they represent.
Supporters of the proposal, led by Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine and Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio, said the change is more than just symbolic — they believe it will support American jobs and manufacturers while preserving the nation’s most recognized banner.
https://apnews.com/article/american-flags-susan-collins-china-c31c30bce3b0a1afc74f79f769022a26Open linkView original on lemmy.world337
Comments125
So, who's the donor friend who owns flag manufacturing facilities?
You'll know why the contract is awarded. Or a judge gets a new car.
Hello young person, do you know why you should care about the government? Me neither. JFC can we address something that actually matters you fucking empty uniforms. Sorry. Great share, and thanks!
No. Don't celebrate performative bullshit. Especially if it's wrapped in nationalism. Because then all you'll ever get is performative bullshit wrapped in nationalism. You take this, put it in your pocket, say thanks, and pick the pitch fork right back up.
my grandfather heard that crock of horse shit his whole childhood and when he grew into an adult he told his kids the same lie
am not telling my kids the same lie
shit does not get better because some less than quarter ass solution got implemented
I hope you never have kids if you're going to tell them they have nothing to look forward to.
Yeah they barely need a push they already feel superior enough that they think themselves above any of the work the rest of the world puts in.
Look at the whole California, San Francisco Greys who thinks people should be color coded on political bias and those who are tech social progressives being put above all others.
Like all they should do is sit around and complain until it breaks and then they can just tell people what to do and it will fix everything. A community ripe with apathy.
Nobody needs foreign propaganda when Congress feeds us literal crumbs as the answer to offshoring. Yay we created 10 jobs. This is the fucking Senate. Not a random Appalachian county council.
I kinda relate with him here. It seems your options are to not have kids or to lie to them.
"nothing short of a revolutionary war is progress"
There is a wide wide gap between a revolution and requiring companies headquartered here to hire 51 percent of their staff from the US.
In the US today:
But yeah, nothing ever changes incrementally. All those activists who worked their whole lives to peacefully bring these things about, well, that was a waste.
ETA: I'm aware that the end of slavery was not quite "peaceful." I stand by the point that things are getting better all the time, and that it is mostly from incremental gains.
Literally none of that was achieved via incremental politics.
All arrived at via constitutional amendments after mass protests opposed by moderates at the time.
Penal slavery is still rampant and officially allowed. And a fucking CIVIL WAR to get rid of chattel slavery is about as far from peaceful incrementalism as you can get.
Supreme court decisions after the incrementalist moderates had gotten nowhere for decades, even passing things like DADT and DOMA.
Thanks to mass protests and other actions by the labor movement opposed by moderates at the time.
Again due to mass protests and opposed by moderates at the time
No thanks to moderates, who have been dragging their feet until they could no longer get away with it
Due to sellers of fruit wanting to make money selling fruit.
Nothing significant, at any rate.
Many of these weren't brought about peacefully and, as I've already explained, none of them incrementally.
Every one of those things was incremental. Of course women never had a partial right to vote which grew stronger all the time. They suddenly had all of that right at once. But the process that got us there was incremental change in people's perceptions and attitudes. And that whole issue was one increment in the broader picture of all rights and protections for all people.
I'm very grateful to be alive today (and in the US) rather than 150 years ago. I owe most of that thanks to folks who worked peacefully, often in the face of terrible violence, to persuade good people to rethink their bad policies.
We have much further to go, of course.
New Jersey women who were land owning could vote since 1776 and in the 1800s Wyoming and Utah would pass universal suffrage rights to women because they were not states but territories.
Utah would later lose that after women disagreed with the men of Congress on polygamy and restrictions were put in place including voting.
New Jersey would lose their right during a later amendment but Colorado and California and Idaho all passed state referendums on women's suffrage before the federal change.
Seriously what's up with US history classes? Suffrage is very interesting and has a lot of weirdness.
Look at Sweden who only allowed Widows and divorcees to vote after changing it from Guild members of any gender or race. And then it gets even more messy.
Rights, It's about getting it more and more accepted until it becomes impossible to ignore and then getting it protected through legal and community means. Nothing ever stops either and it's a slog to keep going.
No. That's flat out false. The literal opposite of reality.
That's not incremental politics, though, that's natural cultural progress that happens regardless (if not in spite) of your precious moderates.
MLK was right about moderates: they always have been and always will be much more devoted to order than to justice.
I said nothing about incremental politics nor about moderates.
This is so wrong it's insane.
Suffrage movements took decades of work on average to whole centuries in others, only countries with new charters after WW2 generally having it granted initially.
Civil Rights started in the 1800s and saw black congressmen and leaders with a back and forth of conservatives battling to take back rights as they were granted.
Heck if the civil war was about treatment of blacks then you already have a timeline of almost 100 years till the 1960s civil rights movement.
Labor movements historically lasted for decades and had people arguing for and against labor rights back and forth constantly depending on who was seen as evil because people are fickle and just want to not think about things.
Women were literally the starting point of prohibition as they blamed drugs and alcohol on spousal abuse and carried that misconception for long after it eased.
And innovations in storage, refrigeration and greenhouse crop growing has made availability of produce a viable option so that yes! People that want to sell and make money off of it can!
Everything in this world changes incrementally even the fucking weather that is getting worse hasn't just gone full day after tomorrow on us cause it's just not how reality works.
I'm in staunch support of doing what is needed to keep moving forward but it's never just one solution of violence or passiveness or even one movement at a time. Everything is constantly happening always.
Give peace a chance.
Give violence a chance too.
They are all just tools to be used and not a solution.
Take a breath and let's get moving but it's not always forward. And maybe read a history book before negating the work of thousands of people over centuries.
They're literally purging the voting rolls right now.
They're literally purging the voting rolls right now.
You sure can own stuff. Good luck buying it.
There is official slavery. Read the 13th Amendment again.
Your Boss can fire you for anything at any time.
Your Boss can fire you for anything at any time.
The 40 hour work week is weaponized against hourly employees and non existent for salary employees.
Child labor is literally back on the menu in red states. And unenforced except for under age immigrants in blue states.
College requires selling yourself into lifetime debt.
This list wasn't incremental. When these things happened they were big fucking deals and not baby steps. If we wanted to outlaw child labor again we'd invent some stupid scheme where kids had to spend increasingly less time at work until employers voluntarily stopped hiring them. Instead of how we actually did it. Not only have we allowed all of this to be seriously degraded in the post Reagan era, we've forgotten how we actually got this shit done in the first place. We didn't ask nicely and accept baby steps.
Perpetual children mindests and their need to have instant gratification is making it so that no victory is a victory. Sad is no fun and life should only be a party.
Nothing was done in an instant and that is somehow unacceptable. I just want to feel good about a victory for like a minute without chucklefucks who have a very wrong idea of history claiming it's unprecedented to change.
If people actually knew how long the women's suffrage movement lasted and how many turns it took they would likely be very upset and also actually aware of how slow reality often is to move in global ways. Heck women in Utah were granted voting access and then had it taken away after they voted for polygamy against what men thought would happen.
People have to actually participate and work little by little but that's so much work and often it's filled with backsliding and failures and it hurts to lose. So it's easier to pretend it should just happen overnight and that's how people change. It's bullshit and storybook thinking mostly.
I do wish this was the case but wishing is to action what masturbating is to sex, fun but not the real thing.
women can vote until some police officer gets them on trumped up charges because he is on a prolife kick
people of all races can vote as long as they are allowed to new ways to ban people from voting are made up all the time
yes people of all races can own property if they can afford to $7.25 is still the minimum wage average US citizen's purchasing power has not increased since about the 60s
corporations use prison slave labor all the time even McDonalds
yes for now marriage equality is a thing and Harris is the only loud supporter on this so far that is in the public eye this much
in right to work states yes they can
again in a right to work state a boss could fire you because he is having a bad day
but it takes more than 40 hours to afford just food and housing
if the people grow up in an environment filled with pollution and negatively they may get to college
justice for some is justice delayed it should be fifty states under one union
no cannabis prohibitions are ramping up not getting better bad products have flooded the market due to lack of regulations and lack of lab tested products
again with the lack of worker's rights and stagnation of pay yes only if you got the funds for those avocados
Just FYI, you're mixing up right to work and at-will employment. Right to work has nothing to do with with being fired.
TFW you share a link that decimates your own point.
Did you read the article you linked to? Because it doesn't support your point at all.
In the United States, right to work has nothing to do with at-will employment. Succinctly, right-to-work laws prevent unionized workplaces from requiring employees who opt not to join the union (an option required by the Taft-Hartley Act) to pay toward the cost of union representation. That's it. It's all in the article you linked.
Even the international law definition has nothing to do with at-will employment.
Bingo.
Yeah but they're going to spend $10,000 per flag that costs $0.10 to make. Gotta keep lining those contractor pockets!
This. It's probably the same contractor they already use, they're just going to blow the price up.
Oh yeah spread that assumed pessimism. Everything sucks and nothing is ever even a little good unless it's perfect.
Everyone knows that is exactly how the world works. All at once and perfectly, or evil and only for rich people. Boooooo.
You can't get rid of corruption if you put your head in the ground like an ostrich. The government isn't going to change contractors unless the current one reports it's unable to comply with the new law. It is far more likely they will bill the government at a higher rate on a no bid contract they secured because they were already the contractor.
You can go read reams of fucking evidence about government contracting working like this. You cannot fix something you ignore. And frankly your aggressive defense of willful ignorance is disgusting.
This literally just says the flag manufacturer has to buy all their materials from the US. Instead of half international.
Did you actually read it?
And that corruption is a different story. That can and should be looked into but this literally just makes it so someone else can sell them a dye. Or a fucking polyester thread they import. Who the fuck cares you currently can't get rid of the manufacturer. But now they have to hire an American to supply and work for them.
Neither of us have the power to fix the next thing yet but it's movement. Stop only caring about getting a perfect victory and go for a walk.
Yes. And the federal government cannot force private companies to do this. So this is literally just for flags the government buys. Which means a GSA contract. Which probably means someone like KBR or Halliburton. Now we already have a ton of oil and cotton. So that's not exactly coming back from off shoring. We also do a ton of textile already. 530,000 people. So we're probably just ordering the colored nylon cotton blend from them. What's left? What's actually new? Putting the flags together. Which is ten people and the right machine. Okay maybe it's 20 or even 50.
Stop giving us crumbs and require all government contractors to source the majority of their stuff from the US and have a majority of American employees, across the board.
No you're sitting here telling us to be grateful we grew a sector by 10 people to make a rich person richer and make sure the Americanism is maximum Americanist.
I'm not who you are angry at. I'm just your punching bag.
They will probably be made by slaves, I mean prisoners.
I remember all the cheap Chinese bumper stickers that people were slapping on their cars....an American flag with the words "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN"
Within a couple months most of the flag color had faded. It was so funny seeing a light pink and blue American flag with that contradictory phrase over it.
Sounds very american to me.
Yep, even giving a shit where a piece of cloth was made is fucking weird
Freedom to buy from the lowest cost provider!
How about we just fly fewer flags. I live in the center of the US and don't need to be reminded by every public building, car lot, and bigot's house of what country I live in.
Official federal and state buildings, those are fine.
This bill is literally about the federal government purchasing flags, not private citizens...
But what if you are walking between aisles in walmart, and suddenly become unsure what country you are in?
The 400 woman on a mobility scooter blocking the isle will probably clue me in.
Oh my gosh, could you imagine? This problem is especially bad during early July. I just thank God they put reminders up. Otherwise I might forget and think I'm a communist or something!
I remember the vacation road trips of my youth, when our family would drive from Canada down into the US to go camping. We'd make a game of counting the American flags we saw. Occasionally there'd be some "game over" property with more flags festooning it than we could actually count before we drove past. It'd be a boring game to count Canadian flags in a similar way. There'd be one or two per day of travel.
The current number of congresspersons, 435, was created in 1913. In the 1920 census the US population was 29,662,053.
29,662,053/435 ~= in 1913 there were 68,188 persons per member of Congress.
In 2020 the population was 331,449,281
331,449,281/435 ~= in 2020 there were 761,952 persons per member of Congress.
One person can't represent three quarters of a million people in a national assembly. That isn't representation.
You think those numbers are bad? Wait till you look up the averages for each US Senator.
But do you think American flags should be made in America?!?
Perhaps one day we’ll finally ratify Article the First.
If memory serves, I believe GOP Senator Susan Collins was the one who exercised great skill in brow furrowing - and nothing further - when expressing disapproval over felon Drink Bleach's reckless behavior.
Yeah I like the idea here, but I saw Susan Collins and thought “Aw fuck what bullshit from yonder asshole breaks?”
It will support one company that gets the GSA contract.
We have so much shit going on in this country and this is what we're worried about?
Ohio, Maine, come get your senators. They're drunk.
Im pretty sure Ohio is also drunk, and Maine is too busy dealing with eldritch entities and whatever is pushed out of the Maritime into the US.
Maybe they should just elect one of those next time?
Yeah but elect Ygndolsofuk doesnt quite roll of the tongue, and im pretty sure the abominations from the Maritime cant talk after being curbstomped so as to stop them from whispering in folks brains.
"Don't be a shmuck, vote Ygndolsofuk!" works pretty well tbh.
Maine is also plenty drunk, somebody needs to cut off the Allen's coffee brandy supply and let them sober up.
Im pretty sure thats to not have their minds melted by eldritch abominations. It worked for Henderson.
Senator Brown is a great senator and literally the only statewide Democrat we have other than a few state Supreme Court justices (who will be out soon now that Republicans added party affiliation to the court ballot). He will be far better for America than Bernie Moreno.
I know nothing about Senator Brown other than this bill. At any rate it passed so they're certainly not alone.
I didn’t realize this is how it worked, where can i pick up Mr. Vance? I have some choice words for him
Oh just ask the secret service. It's like a daycare situation. They're literally just waiting for a parent or guardian to show up.
Ohio senators are probably high, it's legal.
It's like they know that one of our major problems is that capitalists have destroyed all our manufacturing and sent all of our production jobs overseas thus weakening our economy our society and our National Defense. Yet instead of doing anything about it they just do this thumb their nose bill that does nothing. Kind of like a fuck you to the entire country.
I'd really like to see who drafted this bill and a who the share holders in the company that will be making these flags are. My gut says they are the same people.
This was passed by bipartisan support and the person who would be getting paid would be an American with American workers and raw material suppliers who are american...
So yeah I guess the tax payers who are paying the bill are the same people here sooo... Win?
You know exactly what they meant. You still have some boot polish around the lips there.
Nope. I'm just pushing back against all this stupid pessimistic acting from a bill that literally is a good thing. Mostly because no one even read the article and just wants to feel miserable about everything. You may want the company but why not recognize even a small win.
Take your noose off and breath for a little bit.
They worked on this for years. Years. And they got about 10 jobs. When we say you're getting crumbs and you're happy for it, this is it. This is the literal picture in the dictionary for that idiom.
Well then it feels nice to be happy.
And it's not like I am saying it's done completely just taking a win.
Be pissy about it all you want. It doesn't bother me. Just you.
I don't get why people are tilted about this. The government should always buy US made unless the item literally cannot be found from a US manufacturer.
Tax payer money should stay in the country when possible. Yeah it's a small issue but I doubt much time was spent on this
Well thank fuck they've started addressing such important issues.
You mean the end of outsourced labor and production of local goods? (For this product and potential work towards more happy now?) A key issue for may people on both sides of the aisle as seen by the bipartisan support?
Yeah I guess it is good then.
Edit: I was being as exaggerated as everyone else saying a flag will enrich a single person in here but now people want to be pedantic when pointing out this is a thing to support being worked towards. Of course. Misery loves company right?
Not quite the end, but certainly a step in the right direction.
Right. If that's what you want then this is about as effective as the TikTok bill.
The end? It's an absolutely tiny symbolic gesture.
Capitalism. Until we don’t like particular ramifications of capitalism and then we legislate nationalisation of particular industries….because.
Truly the invisible hand of the market at work.
There’s a Pretty Good Chance Your American Flag Was Made by a Prisoner: People of color are incarcerated in huge numbers. And they’re manufacturing America’s symbol of freedom.
U! S! A! U! S! A! U! S! A!
Considering this only covers US Government purchased flags, this IS the invisible hand of the market. It’s a consumer choosing where they want to purchase products.
And it is t nationalizing the industry. They still will be privately produced. And individual Americans can still by Chinese flags.
The particular industry that’s being nationalised is American flags produced for US government consumption. (The nationalisation part)
They’ve decided to legislate because they don’t like the optics of some foreign made products. (This isn’t an invisible hand; it’s opaque)
How is that justified in a supposedly capitalist society when China can produce flags of the same quality but at a cheaper price?
Edit: maybe protectionism is a better word than nationalise, end effect is the same; The government of a capitalist country is directly interfering with the market.
Nationalization means the government takes full control of an industry, not merely sets standards on their purchase.
And buyers are able to have any reason they want for their purchase decisions, including optics. It’s still the invisible hand. And besides, I think it’s more than optics to want American tax dollars to go to Americans.
Capitalism doesn’t mean “always buy the cheapest.” It means anyone can sell at any price and quality, and the people choose. And, in my experience, Chinese made goods are often of lower quality, made with poor environmental standards, and produced with questionable labor practices (including outright slave labor).
Haha oh my God right?
Oh shoot can someone fuck with our supply of flags while trying to push nationalism???
But not healthcare huh?
I read your comment as "hanging tractors" and for the split second I was confused as hell.
On its surface that's not a horrible position for a government to take.
It's not unreasonable for the national government (in any country) to give some level of local preference to all procurement, not only something symbolic like flags. That would actually incentivize companies to onshore more of their manufacturing - or at least slow down their offshoring.
Yeah honestly national symbol items being made locally just makes sense for so many reasons if possible and this is definitely possible. Especially since it should be the purpose of the national government to support internal functions and business before external whenever possible right?
With of course like allowments for maybe raw materials or specialized things if it's not possible. I would get this feeling silly for a country like Vanuatu but the US has resources aplenty.
Plus in times of broken down supply lines it provides at least one manufacturing plant to rely on. This is also true of the military already for those reasons.
What?
Flags being born?
What?
Well yeah, they only care about fetuses.... Thus anything they care about must needs be "born"
Why did I think this was already a thing?
Fine. Then China will produce 99.98% of the flag and an American factory will put 2 stitches and a "Made in America" tag on it.
So you didn’t read the article and are just making shit up in your head? Got it.
Even with current rules, 50% of the flag has to be American made.
Typical.
A lot of people in here want to be angry and feel right rather than be informed.
When talking about bizarre American obsession with flags... :
https://lemmy.world/post/17511734
So many damn flags here. I'd rather not have the flag of a country that's teetering on the edge of fascism flying everywhere, thanks.
You know what, for context for anyone late to the discourse.
All of this is about a bill passing through the Senate for the manufacturer of the government bought flags to go from 50% American manufactured materials to 100%.
Enjoy the ride.
What a waste of our time
"Oh... okay. But did you want to do anything about that giant list of actual REAL problems over there behind you on the table?"
Millions of people dying on the street.
The government: lets play with flags!
You can’t have a country without a flag!!
Since the dawn of time, wars have been waged. The US isnt the worlds police even as much as we pretend. We cant stop war.
We have the highest preventable death rate in the developed world. That's diseases and deaths that were preventable with correct medical treatment or diet.
And we're talking about fucking flags.
Homeless people, disabled people, drug additcs, massive gun crime, crazy motor accidents because no public transit.
Hundreds of thousands of people are dying on AMERICAN streets
edited from millions -> hundreds of thousands
MILLIONS! lol
Every year in the US:
Okay, it you add that up, its hundreds of thousands, not millions, I estimated too high.
But its nothing to laugh about.
Interesting you put the deadliest one 3rd. But that one involves policing the border, and you dont want that, do you?
We could also treat drug addiction as a medical problem and not a crime, and prohibit drug testing in exchange for social services.
That works real well for California, doesn't it?
I feel like all this is going to do is raise government costs and line the pockets of selected contractors. We aren't always going to be the relative best producers in cost/quality balance for every product and service.
If we're going to subsidize any industry, it should be done directly and explicitly. Otherwise, it becomes another example of "inefficient" government that should be privatized.
Protectionism. The word you're looking for where we just mandate domestic manufacturing is protectionism. And there's a lot written about how bad it is.
Actually logistical costs and transportation is one of the highest expenses and some groups have already found that buying from local suppliers who get local raw materials (such as Climate Town's merch Tees) can have competitive costs even when adjusting for higher labor costs just from the manufacturer being located near the farms that grow the cotton and shipping locally within the nation.
Granted the government purchased flags will likely be expensive but that's mostly because of a quality requirement from the fact they need to be flown outdoors for some time without fading or damaging in any way. And that's probably true currently since the flag needs to be made 50% in the country already.
Seriously look at the brownie recipe of the US military for how strict government funds are spent for specific quality requirements and you get why it's slightly more costly than the imported flour with lead or insects in it.
It's not about cost/quality being the best match but a good use of the funds and locally supporting business in an age when that matters is more important. Globalization and long distance transportation can not always be the answer.
Great, and where local is the best choice they should do that. But nobody can seriously argue that reducing the ability of government to shop around for the best cost/quality balance is a good thing. It's not like the only options are buy everything American or everything from China. I'd like qualified experts making that decision, not legislators.
You create bad incentives if you artificially reduce competition like this. Not every good or service will have tons of American choices, so you end up with a handful of companies who know the government has no other choice.
We absolutely do not need foreign countries to produce all the materials for a flag at the cheapest cost. The price difference is likely negligible and shopping around can still be done.
Why is everyone so scared of taking back some production from China?
You guys are allamong weird assumptions that this is some million dollar lynching instead of just saying buy the materials you use to make from a local supplier. This counter argument is insane and literally doesn't matter cause it passed.
I'm not quite sure how you've turned "we should have the option" into "we should buy everything foreign." I think you're having an argument you want to have rather than addressing the point I was making.
Because not everything should be bought foreign. There is no need or good reason to take something that can be easily and cheaply produced locally that is sold directly to the government and try to get the cheapest one abroad.
It's asinine and completely against all the shouting that these communities literally do every week about local manufacturing being needed to combat outsourcing.
Your reasoning is flawed cause there is no reason to support foreign import either. Especially when the other option is to support the country they govern even if it's just a little bit.
I truly don't understand this hand wringing of this simple change unless you are paid for by Chinese interests. It's not always about being cheap.
I'm genuinely not certain if you are meaning to reply to my comments because your replies don't actually reflect what I've said. It is possible to have a larger discussion about a topic from a smaller example, and it's also possible for things to not be all or nothing. I hope you can sort whatever bee is in your bonnet.
God I fucking hate fellow leftists. This is good and it wasn't your help that did it and it makes it easier to shit on.
We want manufacturing moved back into the country. A simple bill to move a point of national pride back to local manufacturing l, that while not a sweeping fix is a nice gesture to help make sure local companies can offer their services and employ Americans.
Seriously, be fucking happy for 30 seconds maybe? Then work on taking the next step forward? Instead of complaining how we took a nap for the last 4 decades we just get back in the race?
I hope local manufacturers use the income to be able to start more clothing production with quality cotton and we see an end to maybe fast fashion with moves like this. That'd be nice.